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Army.ca => Combat Support => Artillery => Topic started by: Ralph on August 01, 2003, 16:35:00

Title: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: Ralph on August 01, 2003, 16:35:00
Possible roles for a new artillery officer are split up into three - I know the difference between field and air defence, but what’s target acquisition – is that like a FOO, and only for field artillery, or something different? Also, does anyone have any idea how one ends up in the three? Do you have a choice, or is it luck of the draw – and can you ever move between them? I would hate to spend the rest of my career twiddling my thumbs, waiting to shoot down a plane from the Al-Qaeda Air Force… ;)
Cheers,
Ralph.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Michael Dorosh on August 01, 2003, 21:56:00
A thorough read of George Blackburns‘ trilogy GUNS OF NORMANDY, GUNS OF VICTORY and WHERE THE ****  ARE THE GUNS may prove useful.  They are WW II memoirs, but may hint at some of the roles officers in artillery regiments still play - ie Gun Position Officer (GPO), FOO, etc.  Administrative roles outside the purely gun-related stuff also need to be filled ie Adjutant, Quartermaster, etc. in addition to battery commanders and other leadership positions.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: RCA on August 03, 2003, 15:42:00
Target Acquisition is exactly that. The acquiring of targets through OPs, Drones etc. I think it also involves target analysis, such as for counter battery work. I admit, I am not the familiar with it, but I think it is a branch of field artillery.

As far as I know, when joining the artillery you can decide wither to be a bird or mud gunner.  Their streams are different right up to Battery Commander. However, I have seen bird gunners being course officers on the FOO Tech crses, so there is some crossover.

Being an officer within the field artillery, your first jobs will be CPO, junior command post officer and recce officer. You work under the direction of the GPO. Once you become proficient, your next position will be GPO, where you command the gun position under the BK. By this time you should be a senior Lt in the Bty. From there you go on your FOO course and become a Troop Commander and FOO. Next is being the BK, and then BCs crse. In between you can take many other crses including staff crse, and potentially hold other positions within the Regt (such as Adjt or Ops O; both as a Capt). This is just a very brief synopsis of a Field Artillery Officer’s career progression.

CPO = Command Post Officer
GPO = Gun Position Officer
BK = Battery Captain, 2ic of the Battery
BC = Battery Commander
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Ralph on August 04, 2003, 13:52:00
Just what I was looking for.
Thanks, guys.
Cheers,
Ralph.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Dan Bobbitt on August 11, 2003, 12:30:00
I‘m the OpsO at the Arty School in Gagetown.  To answer your question, with the introduction of new Locating eqpt (finally - UAVs and CB Rdrs) the Arty is developing a new Career Stream for Taget Acquisition - for NCOs, they‘ll join the Field Artillery, take the basic gunner Crse, spend some time on the guns and then if they want/have the aptitude they can go locating, and take a UAV and/or CB Rdr Det member Crse.  There will be a whole career stream for NCO Locators.  For Officers, all Arty Officers (AD, Field, Loc) are and will be the same MOC - they will all take a common Basic Arty Offr Crse and then split to take trg in their specifc discipline, taking a Fd Arty Tp Commander/GPO Crse, an AD Tp Commander or a Locating Tp Comamnder.  Once you‘ve started a stream you can switch back and forth, however there‘s a training bill that goes along with the switch, as you would have to go back and take the crses in the other discipline.  There‘s also a credibility issue, and I‘ve seen a number of Offrs who came up the Fd or AD side switch to take command of a Bty after taking the BC‘s Crse - it‘s often not too pretty as they lack the experience.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Ralph on August 11, 2003, 16:50:00
Gotcha.
One question: at the point at which an officer goes into Field, AD or Locating, whose choice is it between the three streams? Is it completely his, completely the unit‘s, or a combination based on his aptitude/spaces that need to be filled? (And if so, what separates a good Field officer from a good AD from a good Locating officer?)
Thanks,
Ralph.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Mike Bobbitt on August 18, 2003, 16:10:00
Ralph,

As I understand it, the decision is made by the unit (generally considering the candidate‘s perference) and the Artillery School. The school holds a board with each candidate to help with the process.

Cheers
Title: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Yes Man on January 11, 2004, 02:29:00
I am going on Monday to attempt to enlist in the reserves and I am having second thoughts about what I would like to be in the army.  For starters I have talked to a few of my army friends and many of them have brought up the issue that it might be good to start out as a private and the apply to be an officer after a few years.  Is this a good idea?
Second I am not 100% sure that I want to be in the artillery, some of the other options, (engineers and armored) also interest me. If I find I do not like the artillery would there be a way to change?
Finally I have not talked to another artillery officer and do not know what it is that they really do, all I know about this is the little bit of info they gave me at the recruiting office and on the web site.  Can anyone give me a better description of the day to day activities I would be undergoing?

Thanks
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Michael O'Leary on January 11, 2004, 11:03:00
There‘s no guarantee that being an NCM first produces a better officer. If you have the character and skills appropriate to leading as an officer, you will do well whether or not you have served as an NCM. The opposite case also exists, some soldiers who perform well as NCOs may have trouble adjusting their leadership style to an officer‘s role and responsibilities.

For an outline of what artillery officers do, try the related link from this page:

  http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/html/army/careers/career_profiles/index.html  

Mike
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Gunner on January 11, 2004, 15:51:00
Yes Man,

The links provided by Mike provide a good general overview of the jobs.  I also echo his comments about going in as an NCM first. I have seen good and bad officers who were once NCMs.

Take a look at the sight and let me know what your are looking for specifically and I would be very glad to help you.  Are you applying for Regular or Reserve?
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Yes Man on January 11, 2004, 20:49:00
I have read the bit of info given on recruiting site, and I find it talks more about what it takes to qualify then what you will be doing once you qualify.  I’m trying to find out what the function is of an artillery officer in the reserve, on a day to day level.
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Bruce Monkhouse on January 11, 2004, 20:54:00
What does an Artillery Officer do? O come on, stop baiting us working types like that.  :p
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Gunner on January 11, 2004, 22:04:00
Yes Man, since you are interested in the Reserves it makes it easier.  You don‘t mention where you are located in your profile so I don‘t know which unit your are interested in.  Phone them and introduce yourself (if you haven‘t done so already) and let the Adjutant or Recruiting Officer know you are interested in applying to become an artillery officer.  Ask them for an opportunity to come to the armoury on a parade night and find out what they do in order to get an idea of their routine in Garrison.  They can also provide a very good overview of what they do in the field in terms of commanding and controlling an artillery battery.  

While all officer classifications provide interesting and challenging opportunities for qualified individuals, I beleive Artillery to be one of the most interesting and varied of all of the officer ranks (particularly in the Reserves).  

Garrison work is pretty standard amongst all the combat arms units.  In the field an artillery officer can be (generally given as the junior to more senior jobs):

Reconnaissance Officer - Prove and prepare new Gun positions for a battery to deploy into.  

Command Post Officer - Oversee the command and control nucleus of the battery, interpret fire orders and control direction to the gun line.

Gun Position Officer - Commands the Gun Line and directs its operations and controls all personnel on the gun line.

Forward Observation Officer - One of the best jobs in the military. You act as liaison between the supported arm commander (infantry or armour) and interpret his tactical plan into a fire support concept.

Battery Captain - Second in Command of the Battery. In general focuses on local defence, administration, and overall responsible for the gun area (gun line and rear echelon).

Battery Commander - Commands the Battery and ensures the overall intent of the Regimental Commander and the supported arm commander (Battalion Level) is being met.  

In addition to artillery specific positions, an officer must be proficient in common to all arms fieldcraft, tactics, etc.

Hope this helps a little bit.  I encourage you to get in touch with the local militia unit in your area and ask them for a tour, etc.  If there is more then one unit, by all means, get in touch with all of them and ask to spend a night with them.  It would be well worth your time.

Good Luck
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Gunner on January 11, 2004, 22:07:00
Quote
What does an Artillery Officer do? O come on, stop baiting us working types like that.
Bruce, I was an NCM for a number of years as well ... I can tell you stories from both sides of the fence.  Don‘t make me tell you my thoughts on 2 RCHA   ;)  

Regards
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Yes Man on January 11, 2004, 22:55:00
Thanks for the info that is more along the lines of what I was looking for.

One other question, is it hard to go from being an NCM to an officer? and is the experience learned by being an NCM valuable to in being an officer?

Right now I am 19 and in the process of completing my degree and I am not sure about where I would like to start.  Although ultimately I would like to become an officer, there are a few things that make starting out being an NCM appealing, one of which being they pay for half of NCM’s tuition costs.  Do you think it would be a good idea to join up as an NCM to gain the experience and they once I graduate apply to become an officer? or would it just a more efficient rout to start out as an officer?

BTW I am from Markham, and will be applying to the 7th Toronto RCA
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Gunner on January 11, 2004, 23:37:00
Yes Man, since you are located in near Toronto, you have alot of opportunities open to you as there are numerous reserve units located there.  I encourage you to phone the units that you are interested in and spend an evening or part of the weekend learning what they do.

 
Quote
One other question, is it hard to go from being an NCM to an officer? and is the experience learned by being an NCM valuable to in being an officer?
I have no particular leaning towards either.  As I mentioned, I have seen very good officers and very bad officers come up from the ranks.  I spent the better part of six years as an NCM before applying for commissioning.  Am I a better officer for it?  Yes and no.

 
Quote
Right now I am 19 and in the process of completing my degree and I am not sure about where I would like to start. Although ultimately I would like to become an officer, there are a few things that make starting out being an NCM appealing, one of which being they pay for half of NCM’s tuition costs.  
It really comes down to choice.  As an officer, you are automatically expected to lead, as an NCM you aren‘t.  Your choice comes down to what type of person you are.  Do you prefer to sit in the back, not take part in decision making, and accept what you are directed to do.  Or are you the type of person that wants to make things happen and move toward a goal.  Being a private is nice as you can sit back and learn the nitty gritty of being a soldier/gunner but it can be very frustrating if you are not the type of person that wants to be a follower.  This is not to say you won‘t get into detail as an officer, you will.  In addition, just because you are made an officer, it doesn‘t mean you will put on the uniform and automatically be expected to tell soldiers what to do.  You will be brought along, trained, educated about what is expected of you.  No one expects you to be the perfect officer the day you begin your career.  As far as tuition costs go, they pay for all members of the Reserve Force in good standing.

 
Quote
Do you think it would be a good idea to join up as an NCM to gain the experience and they once I graduate apply to become an officer? or would it just a more efficient rout to start out as an officer?
I can‘t make the choice for you. You have to decide what you want, what you are able to accomplish and what your unit wants from you.  Go to the unit and ask questions about the role of officers and the role of the soldiers.  Talk with the unit recruiting staff.  Then come back and ask so other questions.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Yes Man on January 11, 2004, 23:48:00
Thanks again for the info.  I am going down tomorrow night to go to the info session an to see what is involved in signing up.

Thanks
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Gunner on January 11, 2004, 23:51:00
Quote
Thanks again for the info. I am going down tomorrow night to go to the info session an to see what is involved in signing up.
Make sure you ask alot of questions...don‘t be shy.  You have alot of choices available to you and you need to find the one that suits you best.  If you have questions after tomorrow night, feel free to ask.

Good Luck.
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: Scott937 on January 12, 2004, 13:26:00
The artillery is a great trade, and as a reservist you will not be signing your life away. Try it and if you don‘t like it...change. In addition, as a reservist you will not have "day to day" activities, you will do some basic administration and training on some evenings and weekends, then you will have some field exercises (someone has mentioned those above). The artillery does have the right combination of all combat arms. We fight with the infantry and armour and we have to understand thier tactics, drills and proceedures. There is the opportunity to coordinate aircraft, rockets and all forms of fire support. I echo the sentiment Forward Observation Officer is the best job in the artillery, if not the army.
As far as being an officer, or an NCM. Well, Gunner was exactly correct, you must ask yourself what type of person are you. I have seen many "wannabe" officers that have been removed from the army, who would have made good soldiers(NCMs). Also the reverse, there are many NCMs who would make excellent officers, but do not want to make the leap to the other side of the fence, because it is where they have become comfortable.
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: PikaChe on January 12, 2004, 13:32:00
And this is in wrong forum.
Off to artillery forum it goes.
Title: Re: What does an Artillery Officer do?
Post by: kurokaze on January 13, 2004, 13:45:00
Yes Man, if you haven‘t already, come down to the armoury on Monday night and I can introduce you to some of the officers doing the jobs that Gunner listed above.  They can tell you in their own words exactly what they‘re responsible for.  

PM me and I‘ll give you more details.
Title: VERY important_ Should I Go Artillery Officer?
Post by: 531_Angel on May 06, 2004, 10:20:00
Hi all.   I'm new here.   A little about me... im applying to RMC, and have been offered a position.   My choices included pilot, air nav, and armour.   In the military's infinite wisdom, then offered me arty.   (Because we all know that arty was my unwritten fourth choice.   Well at least to the military.)

Which bring me to my dilema.   I want to go to RMC, but im not sure if i want to go for arty.   A couple things i was wondering ...

What are the chances that i would have a successful occupation transfer to either pilot or one of the other combat arms?   I ask this because, I will probably accept my offer to go to RMC for arty, and i know i can apply for an OT up until i start MOC training.   If i find out during my first year that arty isnt for me, then i would like to know if a transfer is possible.   I was speaking with a local Reg force arty Captain, (part of the 49th regiment in Sault Ste Marie, ON) and he said that arty is short 40 captains.   So from that, i concluded that if i was to take arty, then i would be pretty much stuck there, OT or not.   Which isnt helping in my decision to take this offer.   

What is it like in the field for arty.   The inf and armr are up there fighting.   is arty just sitting back putting lead on some targets in some far off land?

I realize that not all OT's are successful.   On the other hand, i have already successfully completed my Aircrew Selection, and that being so, would that help in an OT?

I know i might come off as someone whos just taking arty because its a way of getting pilot (which IS half of the truth), but if i dont get it, then i can always stick with arty.   Im just trying to decide if its the MOC for me, if pilot falls through.

Any replies to this post would be helpful.
Thank you for your time.

Taio
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: Scotty884 on May 06, 2004, 11:17:00
To just answer 1 of those questions...I‘m not an officer but as arty, yea we are behind the fighting BUT depends on the battery your posted to.  If by chance you are posted to my battery "C" bty 1 RCHA then you may find yourself closer to the battle than you think cause most of the time we are dismounted as mortars... But again it depends on where you are put.  If you are in the OP‘s, more than likely you‘ll get a nice lav 3 OPV and be up there with the grunts as a FOO...
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: 48Highlander on May 06, 2004, 11:39:00
If you were offered arty instead of the choices you requested, chances are they‘ll never let you transfer.  If you say "I wan to be a pilot" and they say "you know, you‘d do real well in artilery", it usualy means they don‘t think you‘re qualified to be a pilot.  That said, I could be wrong, and you might be able to transfer at some point.  If you meet all the requirements there should be no reason why you couldn‘t re-muster before you begin MOC training.
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: fusilier955 on May 06, 2004, 11:40:00
I dont want to burst your bubble but your OT idea has a 99.9% chance that you will not remuster to pilot.  Dont go in there thinking if i dont like it i can change it, presto.  An OT is long and difficult, and most people make the mistake that it isnt.

I have a friend at RMC that got put in armour, he wanted pilot and he thought he could do the switch sometime to pilot.  He found out the hard way that the answer is no, maybe 10 years down the road, which is still slim, but definatly not now.  

My advice is do what you want to be, not what they tell you to be.  If you go along with the flow you have about a 90% chance of having a miserable time, (just ask my buddy) you may end up liking it dont get me wrong, but do what YOU feel you want.

If you still want to be in the CF and get some of your eduacation paid for, there is the reserve.  That way you can just transfer to the Reg force and apply for pilot when there is more openings.  Also that way you have more substance to your application than just some joe of the street.  The Reg force transfer is different than the OT because you you are moving from a differnt pool of jobs.  Think of it as moving up from the minor leagues to the major leagues.  The other way would be like being in the major leagues and trying to jump teams.  Good luck with what ever you choose.
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: Meridian on May 06, 2004, 12:13:00
Yes, as a formour 21U (armour) at RMC... I can tell you OTs are next to impossible.. but not impossible.

Actually.. far from it. but I‘ll explain.

Twice a year, every year (may only be once now), the Forces come around and ask everyone if they would like to switch into an occupation that currently is in dire straights...  Now keep in mind, they investigate your current degree, suitability and current level of training...  a 4th year who has 3 phases of inty training aint gonna transfer over to MARS anytime soon.

But it does happen frequently enough, if you are lucky enough.

The biggest thing you do have to realize, is if you DO have Aircrew (and Im not entirely sure how much you think youve done, because there are different parts to it (cyclo, etc), and they still didnt take you, it is because the pilot program is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY Full.

I mean they take tons of people at the junior program WITHOUT aircrew, so if you ahve it, then this year their numbers say they dont need you.


That and noone ever signs up for Arty.
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: RCA on May 06, 2004, 14:26:00
The descion is ultimaly yours, but may I ask what the problem with Artillery is. not sexy enough?

The Arillery is one of the more technically challanging trades, and the aptitude required is one of the highest in Land Forces. The team work and expertise to put a round on the ground at the right time in the right place is professionally gratifiying. Being a FOO entails knowing the infantry/armour‘s tactics as well, as your own. Keep an open mind and do some reasearch.

 Of paricualr note, Gens Jeffries, Leslie and Dallaire are/were Gunners, and the incoming LFWA Comd is also a Gunner.

As for nobody signing up for the Artillery, bullshit.
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: 531_Angel on May 06, 2004, 16:50:00
well, about the qualifications for pilot ... the fact that i was sent for Aircrew Selection (at CFB Trenton), is a good sign, as not everyone gets that far.  then i passed both the pilot and air nav tests, so there‘s nothing stopping me from being put in the pilot program.  My medical cleared too, so thats not a problem either.

and to RCA, as to your comment regarding the artillery as "not sexy enough", thats not true.  But when you‘ve had you sights set on pilot since before you were 10, ya its a bit of a disappointment.  Sorry you saw my post that way.

Fusilier955, i like your idea of goin in the reserves and then switching to reg force.  that‘s an option that my recruiting office never told me.  

I realize that OT‘s are like pulling teeth, but they are possible i guess.  I know the chances are slim, but there‘s always a chance.  And i figure arty isnt too bad.  right now, im considering one of two paths:  joining the reserves and then jumping reg force, or taking arty.  can someone tell me the pro‘s / con‘s of each?  

And thanks to everyone who‘s posted so far.  you guys have been really helpful.
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: Casing on May 06, 2004, 17:26:00
Taio, I completely understand you feelings about being passed over for pilot.  Considering the CF is desperate for pilots, I wonder if your case is a result of this year‘s training quota slots being full already...?  Though, I thought I read something within the past few weeks that only half of this year‘s desired pilot numbers have been recruited (this is not subtantiated so take it with some salt).

If I was single I would be going Arty DEO rather than one of the engineering occupations.  I think RCA‘s explanation is excellent.  Continue with your (good on you for posting here towards that effort) research and you‘ll see that there is quite a lot more to Artillery than "just sitting back putting lead on some targets in some far off land".  While it might not be the trade for you, you‘ll still be rather surprised.
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: 531_Angel on May 06, 2004, 18:26:00
Thats the one thing that i was really bewildered by.  The DND site has had it posted that they need pilots really badly.  Why they wouldnt take more in their quota for RMC is beyond me.  (Also, the only other pilot candidate to actually pass aircrew selection got an offer for RMC too... in infantry.  I think i got a better offer than him lol.)  I guess it deals with the fact that i wouldn‘t be posted anywhere or done training until after 5 years, and by then the needs of the forces will have changed.

While watching some of the recruiting videos, the one on arty said that "Arty officers require high mathematical skills (physics and whatnot) and skills with computers.  It also said this on the sheets they have in the recruiting office about the different MOCs.  how true is this, and to what extent are these skills needed?

i figure the best place to do any more research is here, as i can get honest, no BS answers from ppl who know what they are doing.

and thanks once again for everyone‘s help
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: devil39 on May 06, 2004, 19:02:00
My advice would be to take a classification that you are interested in if you intend to make a career of it.  It can be a very long army if you are stuck doing something that does not interest you.

Again you must balance that with the acceptance to RMC.  If RMC entrance is a higher priority than your MOC take the offer of Arty.

I would think that the re-muster from within the system would perhaps be possible, but it seems like a gamble to me.

All MOCs are important and have their positives and negatives, and you will be challenged whatever you choose.

As an ex-R021 Artilleryman, a failed out Ph 4 Pilot flying Tutors, and a current Infantry Officer, I would not trade back to either of my previous occupations.  I could however be happy in either.
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: Meridian on May 06, 2004, 20:08:00
Realize that RMC candidates/quotas are for 5 years down the road.. pilots get their wings in 7....  so the quotas are quite different.. A DEO can  be up, trained and flying within 2-3-4 years...
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: RCA on May 06, 2004, 20:45:00
I made the comment just to get a rise and see what direction you were coming from.

I can fully understand your disappointment, and if this is what you want, then leave no stone unturned and do everything in your power to make it happen. There is someone out there who can give you an answer about your real chances, if not this year then maybe next. The trades are Option B for you. Its good to research them also so all your options are open. I have no idea about the remustering before and after, but I guessing, the older you get, the harder it will be to OT as a pilot.

As for an Artillery officer, math skills, spatial perception, and computer skills are important. You start out as a Recce Officer, where you recce a piece of ground, find a suitable location for 6 guns, CPs, and other Bty vehs, bring them in and orientate the guns so they are facing a common direction (Center of Arc). You must always know your map location, and be able to bring survey to the guns. You will have a Recce TSM with you who is always helpful, but the decisions and responsibilities are yours.

After that you are trained in the CP, where you learn Fire Discipline, the theory of indirect, and computation of firing data from the OP to the guns. (This is done by computer and Techs) but no round can go unless you are sure the data is correct. Again you will have a Tech WO to help and guide you, but ultimately you are responsible for rounds down range. And make no mistake, we do not use blanks or training ammunition.

After its training as FOO where you learn the combat team/battle group tactics and learn to call down fire for your supported arms.

 That is a very quick synopsis, and I have missed some things and glossed over others, but at least I hope I peeked your interest. Being a Gunner can be rewarding, as we tend to add dignity to what otherwise would be termed an unruly brawl. And you would be joining a proud fraternity, as Once a Gunner, Always a Gunner.

 I'll get of my soapbox now.
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: fusilier955 on May 07, 2004, 11:11:00
I know that the Artillery is a good trade, (mind you not as good as, oh say the Infantry)  :D    But what it boils down to is settling for what you want and not second best.  Now you had plenty of info from the Arty side of your question so now for the reserve.

The plus side for the reserve is that it is like a test drive for a car.  If you like it you can buy it (transfer to the Reg force).  It gives you skills and experience and will give you a slight advantage on your Reg force training when you make the jump.  Also it gives you money at school, a cool job, something to do during the year, pays for half your education, most of the common benefits you get in the reg force (dental, medical), plus a guarenteed summer job.  

Also you can experience civie university life, RMC life is completely different.  RMC is very regimented, you dont have a lot of freedom in courses for your first 2 years at RMC, at civie university you can take anything you want, and even switch your program if you want with ease.  At civie university you get the "experience" that you would miss at RMC, and visa versa for RMC.

Look at the over all picture, then decide what you want.  If you go to RMC you are pretty much planning the next 10 years of your life, and picking your career right now.  If you dont want to do what they want you to be, then dont, it is your career.  Well good luck!
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: 531_Angel on May 26, 2004, 11:21:00
hey everyone.

After much deliberation, I‘ve accepted my offer for artillery.  I do my physical test on June 1st (step test, hand grip, pushups, situps).  I get my briefing for going away and my enrollemnt ceremony is on the 22nd, and i need to be in st jean for august 8.

im extremely excited and cant wait to get going.  thank you everyone that posted here.  your insight was very helpful.
Title: Artillery Training, Officer style
Post by: Big Foot on August 09, 2004, 03:26:44
I was just wondering what kind of stuff I can expect to face throughut my training to become an Artillery officer. I mean, everyone I've talked to seems to give me different, often conflicting information about what I'm going to be doing through CAP, Phase III and Phase IV. I really have no idea what to expect during my upcoming training   so thanks in advance for any heads up you can give me. Sure IAP was easy, but will the rest of my summer courses be that easy? I should surely hope not.
Title: Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
Post by: Scott937 on August 09, 2004, 13:44:32
Now, I'm not extensively familiar with the new DP model, this is as close to it as I can get.

CAP- Basic Infantry Section Comd within a Platoon frame work. The don't expect you to be come an infantry section commander full stop, but they expect you to learn soldier skills and develop as a leader. Think of this as "Intro to the Army"

Phase 3 (I don't know the DP Model numbers)- Comd Post officer and the duties of a Jr Officer on the gun line. You will learn to compute the data (bearing and Elevation) for the gun to tgt location that the observer identified. There is alot of command and control aspects to the training and you will become quite good at managing several Nets (radios) at the same time.

Phase 4- This is where you will learn to become the Recce officer, this is all about developing a gun positions for your Bty of guns. You will also get introduced to other gun line jobs such as Gun Position Officer, safety officer, and Troop Commander. There is some tactics involved in this phase to combine with the technical aspects that phase 3 gave you...

Scott
Title: Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
Post by: Big Foot on August 14, 2004, 03:12:59
Thanks a lot for your info, Scott :) Really nice to see that as time goes on, they will be training me to be at least sorta competent in everything. Sounds like I have an interesting few summers ahead of me. Really look forward to getting into this artillery thing full steam ahead. Again, thanks Scott, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of info of this nature anywhere, even recruiting centres.
Title: Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
Post by: GINge! on September 15, 2004, 20:20:10
Isn't there an Army club at RMC? Your best bet is to talk the Gunner cadets a year ahead of you to find out what their summer was like.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
Post by: Rocky 88 on October 01, 2004, 16:34:05
Its all good training just keep your head about your self and dont get wraped around the axle. do your best and dont give up and you will be fine. trust your compass..... UBIQUE and have a good one :salute:
Title: Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
Post by: birdgunnnersrule on October 13, 2004, 19:49:28
:) Like some other people have said, you should ask your friends that already attended training at the Arty School. After CAP, Phase 3 or Dp something or another is a combination of field, air defence, and locating modules.  The bulk of the work focuses on the field side of the house. I hope this helps out!! P. S. Don't believe everything you hear because all three have different things to offer.  Most RMC cadets end up on the field side. 
Title: Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
Post by: Big Foot on November 20, 2004, 14:32:08
Thanks a lot, guys. If rumors are true (which they hardly ever are) I'll be off to BOTP and CAP this summer and on my way to being arty qualified. I have been talking with both RMC cadets and reg officers who have done time in artillery and, after thinking about changing trades, I thought again and am going ARTY.
Title: Re: VERY important questions
Post by: Paish on February 06, 2005, 03:04:16


That and noone ever signs up for Arty.

Whah? Is this true? I would kill to serve in the artillery!!(In process of applying )
Title: Re: VERY important_ Should I Go Artillery Officer?
Post by: Meridian on February 06, 2005, 14:54:40
Well not no one... But if you look at Kincanucks postings, you can see that Arty generally has the most room of the Cbt arms.
Title: Re: VERY important_ Should I Go Artillery Officer?
Post by: SHELLDRAKE!! on February 08, 2005, 10:57:17
Perhaps that is because Artillery is the only truly technical trade in the combat arms and in order to be a proper gunner, you must be constantly upgrading your arty skills.That leaves older gunners not willing to quit the artillery at the drop of a dime because they have invested so much training time and therefore the promotions in the artillery are alot slower.

I think you will find that typically the other combat arms have a quicker promotion rate but a lower retention rate based on the idea that obviously someone must be getting out somewhere in order to promote people up.
Title: Re: VERY important_ Should I Go Artillery Officer?
Post by: gunneryfreak on February 17, 2005, 22:21:34
I hope you're joining with the full intention of giving it your best.  The worst you can do for yourself and for the Corps is to become a gunner whose heart string dips in sh.....  Not only are you wasting the instructors at the school's time and effort but you're also taking the spot of someone who might have all the attributes of a "happy Arty officer"  As far as Occupational Transfers"  this highly unlikely.  As of last month, we are 50 Captains short in the arty.  That means that all new officers coming in, who would want to get out of the trade would have to compete to get into a new trade and compete to get out of their current trade,  Based on the shortage, this may not be an option at this time.  In any case, it seems that you have made you choice.  Good luck and see you at the school soon hopefully. ;D
Title: Re: VERY important_ Should I Go Artillery Officer?
Post by: iDV on February 18, 2005, 01:09:16
To add my piece of the puzzle, I am an arty officer, 14 years in. Every trade as its pros and cons. Looks like the arty is slow to promote, both for Officers and NCOs, compare to Inf and Arty. We did had a few years in a row with 0 promotions in quite a number of rank levels. Because of this fact, a good number of excellent captains transfered trade (Int, Pilot, Eng, PA, all friends of mine) some of them are majors now, and they would probably still be captain have they decided to stay. The fact that we are 40 captains short is probably directly linked to it.

As far as the job is concerned, as an arty officer, most of the time, you do the same thing as any other cbt arms officer ... paperwork, staff work, etc. Only on exercise or on operation do you do the job for which you are trained for. The best one I had as arty was as a Observer (FOO). You are then totally away from your arty unit and under op control of an inf unit, armour unit, or combat team. You are then as forward as they are. The FOO must be able (as the engineer officer) to advise his supported arm commander (usually of the rank of major for a FOO) on all indirect fire usage, including the use of tanks in the fire base role. The arty officer must acquire early in his career deep knowledge of tactics of all arms in order to understand two levels up the tactical situation (this means that you have to be able, if working at a cbt team level, to have the tactical vision of the battle group, and to understand the objective of the divisional artillery).

By the way, the myth that the arty is far behind is false. For guns with an 18km range, two thirds of the range must be pass the front line, leaving the guns 6km from the fight, with recce officers being very close of enemy areas if on the advance.

As a FOO, you attend to Battle Group commander's Order Group with the major you are supporting. That is were you meet with your own arty Major (bty commander), which then gives you supplementary instructions on arty matters and tactics.

If you are also trained as a FAC (Fast Air Controller) you could be given the task of directing a F-18 onto a ground target, since this is also an indirect fire capability.

You and your team act just like infantry while performing any other non arty related tasks. You must then be able to lead a platoon if needed. You also are capable of setting up local defense and direct fire assets for an infantry company, because of your training and knowledge of tactics.

The soldiers you comand are very technically capable. You or your men are often asked to help with communication issues while with infantry, since an gunner is normally very efficient technically in this field, when sigs are not around.

On most UN and NATO missions, you would deploy in an infantry role, except when deploying guns or mortars.

In summary, an arty officer must be a decent infantry officer on top of being an arty officer. But don't count of doing arty stuff all your career. I would say that 80 % of the work you would do in a 20 yrs career would be spent doing mostly staff work, and for the 20 % on arty duties, I am being very generous.

There are experienced arty officers in Kingston and at RMC, talk to them to make up your mind. Good Luck ! UBIQUE
Title: Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
Post by: canadiancarebear on March 01, 2005, 20:49:04
hey there.

Im in the same position as you are.  I finished IAP and BOTP and am now doing french training in st jean.  Im having the same thoughts as you are about being unsure what to expect come CAP and phase 3 and 4.  Im also a 115 pound girl so im a little worried if thats gonna make it harder on me to.  It was nice to read your posting and see that theres others who are unsure as well. Thanks   :)   I'll keep checking here to see if anyone tells you anything else about arty officer trainig.
Title: reserve artillery officer
Post by: mac09 on November 14, 2005, 17:58:35
Hello all,  I am currently enrolling in the DEO Artillery and have been viewing many posts on this site regarding taining.  Is there anyone out there who could tell me how long the  CAP and occupatonal training takes for reservists.  There seems to be alot of talk as far as CAP goes but not much on Artillery training.  I have hoever heard that BMQ is 5 weeks and CAP is 6 weeks for reservists. 

Thanks,

Chris.
Title: Re: reserve artillery officer
Post by: Standards on November 17, 2005, 17:26:30
The RAOTP (Res Arty Offr) crse was 41 days long in 1 x 11 day plus 3 x 10 day modules.  However a board just sat a couple of weeks ago to re-evaluate and update the courseware.  I understand the crse is now a total of 55 trg days, but have yet to see anything on paper.  Historically the course runs Jul-Aug in Shilo, but the increase in duration will probably have the crse commencing in Jun.  Hope this of some help.
Title: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: mitsulance on July 16, 2008, 01:47:50
Hello,

I have been researching extensively about joining the CF. In particular, I am considering applying as an ARTY officer at my local battery, 29th Field Battery within the 11th Field Regiment, RCA in Guelph. I am applying for Primary Reserve until I finish my degree and then will decide if I want to go full time or apply for Int Officer. I intend to visit the battery this Thursday and see what happens within the Reserves. I do however, want to find out from people that are either within the Reserves or Regular Forces what is it like as an ARTY officer?

Do you experience numerous tours, where have you been sent, where are you posted? Do you get transferred often? What sort of duties and tasks do you do while not deployed? Have you experienced any hearing loss as an officer? Is promotion rate within the ARTY faster or slower compared to other Combat Arms or other branches in general? (Below the rank of Captain)

I noticed in numerous posts a couple years ago there was a shortage of ARTY officers, however currently on the CF website, there is a high demand for Artillery Solider – Field, would this imply that there is now enough ARTY officers, or even too many and that the CF are now looking for NCMs to serve under these officers?

Thanks
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: Ralph on August 04, 2008, 19:00:41
Well, nobody else is biting, so I'll add my dinar. As with all calls for information, I hope you have used the search function on this site. That and the CF recruiting site should answer most of your questions.
The majority of the people I did training with starting with five years ago will have gone to Afghanistan two or three times by 2011, whether we're done at that point or not. Right now, Afghanistan is really the only show in town.
After training, you are posted to either Shilo, Petawawa, Valcartier or remain in Gagetown. The first posting, these days, lasts on average four-ish years, but could be less or more depending on the vagaries of your career.
No matter what your job is in the field, your main job in garrison is the administration and training of the troops.
If you choose not to use the ear protection issued to you, hearing loss is possible. But we're all big boys and girls here.
Everyone gets promoted to Captain at the same rate, AFAIK - DEOs get Lt upon completion of Ph IV and Capt after a year, MilCol/civvy U plan grads need one year as a 2Lt and two as an Lt after graduation.
The powers-that-be decide how many spots each trade gets per year. Arty officers have had quite a few of the cbt arms spots the last couple years. As with all trades, there are not enough soldiers to fill every position, whether NCM, NCO or officer.
Hope this helps. Int and Arty share some similarities, but your idea to check out the battery in Guelph is probably best to see if you want to get your hands dirty, figuratively and literally.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: CorporalMajor on December 02, 2008, 15:06:30


I noticed in numerous posts a couple years ago there was a shortage of ARTY officers, however currently on the CF website, there is a high demand for Artillery Solider – Field, would this imply that there is now enough ARTY officers, or even too many and that the CF are now looking for NCMs to serve under these officers?

Thanks
If it helps, I've also heard from many freinds, including OCdts that the Arty officers are also in serious demand.  Just because it isn't on the page as "red" doesn't mean they don't require people - just those trades are starving the most.

If they're going to recruit more Arty Soliders, you can bet they need more Officers to watch over them as well.

The combat arms have very, very high turnover rates relative to other trades, simply because of the nature of the work, and the operational tempo. Many people decide it's not their thing, and become something else, and the Arty is not an exception. So with vacancies come demand.

Best way to know for sure, talk to the folks at your Recruiting Centre, and have at 'er.
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: jeffb on December 02, 2008, 21:30:24
It would seem as if Regular army Arty officers are understrength. There's a ton of them on the BMOQ course starting Jan. 05. That doesn't necessarily mean that 29th Field is understrength.
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: ltmaverick25 on December 23, 2008, 16:46:54
Im just curious if you managed to get into the Regiment yet?

I was talking to 11 FD back in Sept about possibly joining them as an Arty Officer, I ended up going MARS instead.  But they told me they have 5 Arty Officers that still require MOC training and they could not get it because the unit was only being given 1 spot per year, so they said any new officers would be waiting a while to become trained.

Have you heard anything about this?
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: dapaterson on December 23, 2008, 17:11:54
There are production capacity concerns in several occupations.  There's no point in enrolling young officers if they can't get trained; certain trades demand a large number of supprot personnel for their training.  Artillery is one - it takes a whole lot of folks to make the guns go boom on cue for the young officers undergoing training; if you're short of gunners and bombadiers, you'll have problems training enough artillery officers.
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: ltmaverick25 on December 23, 2008, 18:38:45
Indeed, that was one of the things that turned me off about it.  I did not want to be stuck as a 2Lt for 5 years.
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: Furtry on February 06, 2009, 04:32:22
Indeed, that was one of the things that turned me off about it.  I did not want to be stuck as a 2Lt for 5 years.
Not sure what you're talking about, I've seen guys promoted to Capt. in less than a year. Half of my phase 4/DP 1.2 were promoted to Lt. at the grad parade.

For me life as an Arty officer; DP training does not prepare you for everything you will have to know how to do. Otherwise I love it :).
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: ltmaverick25 on February 06, 2009, 05:43:45
Not sure what you're talking about, I've seen guys promoted to Capt. in less than a year. Half of my phase 4/DP 1.2 were promoted to Lt. at the grad parade.

For me life as an Arty officer; DP training does not prepare you for everything you will have to know how to do. Otherwise I love it :).

Assuming you can get loaded on a course, then yes you are absolutely correct.  The problem as it was explained to me by 11 FD, was that, they had over 5 new officers that required MOC training, however the unit was only being given one spot a year for candidates on the course, if that, meaning, you would have to wait 5 years just to get your qualification.  No qualification, no promotion.
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: poiriernb on July 15, 2009, 14:41:30
I am joining as an artillery officer, and start BMOQ in September.  Is there anyone who can confirm the above information? Or is CAP just backed up because of the Afgan mission?
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: Ralph on July 15, 2009, 16:05:52
Ltmaverick25 is talking about the reserves. Furtry is talking about the reg force. It's guavas and pineapples...
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: poiriernb on July 15, 2009, 21:02:02
Perfect, cause I doubt I would wait 5 years to get on course, didn't make a lot of sense!
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: ltmaverick25 on July 15, 2009, 21:36:45
Correct, what I said pertains to reservists only.  I have no idea what the wait time if any is to get Arty O MOC training in the regs.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
Post by: jeffb on July 20, 2009, 02:03:27
I can comment on Reg Force training time as I'm currently in the process. I finished my BMOQ in April and am probably going on CAP at the end of September. If all goes well, we have been told to expect to be done DP 1.1 and 1.2 late next summer but it could be as late as next December depending on how the courses line up.
Title: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: ltmaverick25 on December 08, 2009, 16:41:36
I've been searching around looking for information about Artillery Officer career progression.  I have found a bit of information here and there but I am looking for something more comprehensive.

My questions pertain to what happens after CAP.

1.  How long is phase 3 and phase 4 training?
2.  Up to date version of what each phase comprises?
3.  At what point does one do FOO training?  What happens after FOO training?
4.  What is life like as a new reg force artillery officer fresh off of MOC training?
     a) daily routine?
     b) duties and responsibilities in garrion and the field?
     c) Approx how much time is spent in the field per year?

5.  What is the dynamic between new officers in the unit and the Capts and more senior officers?


Thanks in advance for the help!
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: Black Knight on August 04, 2011, 18:02:23
I know this is an old topic but does anyone have any information on this??
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: Ralph on August 13, 2011, 10:18:45
In my experience:

1.  How long is phase 3 and phase 4 training?
3-ish months each

2.  Up to date version of what each phase comprises?
Don't know. They have been known to change. When I did it, Ph 3 (DP 1.1) was almost all recce and Ph 4 (DP 1.2) was command post, Safety, and more recce). But things might be different now.

3.  At what point does one do FOO training?  What happens after FOO training?
It depends. I'm sure all regiments want their junior officers to get as much gunline experience as possible before moving on to the OPs, but sometimes one doesn't get that chance. Now that deployments have settled down, pers usually have been around for a couple years before the course - but not always as a TC/TL/CPO/GPO. After you do your course, you become a FOO. Regiments were changed last year with the creation of an OP Battery for each and FOO parties are tasked out to gun btys or inf coys when req.

4.  What is life like as a new reg force artillery officer fresh off of MOC training?
   
There may be differences btwn regts, but generally when you're in garrison, it's PT fol by whatever the day holds, whether it be actual training or paperwork. Junior officers act as course officers throughout the year - you may be loaded onto various short courses yourself, given tasks to complete (organize events, conduct investigations, help plan exercises), and manage your troops with the help of your TSM. In the field, depending on your position, you'll be finding gun positions, running the command post, or ensuring the rounds are going to land where the FOO thinks they should. Regiments are getting back into longer regimental exercises now that Afghanistan is basically done, but you'll be lucky if you're out for three months total. That's not a lot, all things considered.

5.  What is the dynamic between new officers in the unit and the Capts and more senior officers?
The dynamic is whatever you wish it to be based on your ability to not be an idiot. For the most part, all officers captain and below work on a first-name basis (although some may wish that not to be the case). If you're the new guy, just remember that, for the first while, everyone knows more than you. You can learn something from everyone (even if it's to ensure you don't pattern yourself after them).

Ralph
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: muskrat89 on August 22, 2011, 19:48:28
Quote
The dynamic is whatever you wish it to be based on your ability to not be an idiot.

Thank you. Very well put.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: Black Knight on September 03, 2011, 14:34:20
Awesome. Thanks for the info :)
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: Cardstonkid on October 07, 2011, 12:08:42
I know this reply is a bit late but I thought I would add:

Dp 1.1 is three months long. It now similar to the old Reserve Artillery officer program, in that it covers recce, CPO, GPO, and RSO duties. Reservist do this course with their Reg force peers. There is no real time on the Guns.

DP 1.2 is more survey, special procedures, quick actions etc. Reservists do not get this course unless they are lucky or going overseas. The course is 3 months long.



Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: frank1515 on October 31, 2011, 12:16:28
Can you expand a little more on the DP1.1 course, Cardstonkid? Is it ran in Mods, timelines etc.  The Technoviking has previously explained the IOPD1.1 course very well in an earlier post and I am looking for an Artillery version of his post.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: Cardstonkid on October 31, 2011, 16:58:41
I did the course in 2009. I understand it has not changed much since then.

The course is a high stress, fast learning environment. The stress comes from some "****" but mostly from the massive workload.

The course is done in mods. Each mod is two weeks long. It is designed this way so that a reservist can come and get a qualification and then leave. That being said, if my memory serves me well, each mod does not necessarily give you a qualification. I am not sure how the mods are organized now, but when I did the course it progressed from Recce O to GPO and Safety Officer, with all the positions in between.

So for example,

The first mod is recce. Here the candidate will become qualified on the T-16 and GLYPS survey equipment, learn to use the CP & FC board, conduct a recce as a recce TSM, Tech, and Recce O.

The Command Post Officer is another mod, but to do this a candidate must qualify as a CP Tech. This means passing the Manual Artillery Plotting System (MAPS) and the IFCCS (Indirect Fire Control Computer System). Each candidate will act as a Tech supervisor, Arty Sigs, then CPO while in the box being evaluated.

I will try to find the complete breakdown of the mods as they are taught, or at the very least how they were taught in 2009. I do know that MAPs and IFCCS was taught over a two week period. One week for each. (The reserve CP tech course is 4 weeks long, so this gives you an idea of how much is packed into two weeks.) The duties of a CPO are separate mod but I am not sure how it is divided out, since during the course it seemed like a progression of learning rather than a fixed start and end date.

I do know that if a person failed the recce mod in week two they could go through the counseling process to retake the tests and complete the qualification if they were staying on beyond the first two weeks of the course. However if the reservist fails this mod and they cannot stay longer to complete the re-testing process then they had to come back and retake the course from the beginning at another time.

For the reg force candidates the course is not really modular. They cannot pass everything but Recce and then come back a do that two week mod over again. They must complete the course in its entirety in order to progress, even if they had passed all but one of the mods.

I will see if I can find all of the mods and I will post it here as soon as I can. 

Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: Allgunzblazing on October 31, 2011, 17:40:08
Hello,

I have a couple of similar questions, if someone can please shed some light on these -

1. During Phase IV - does one get an opportunity to chose between becoming a Field Artillery Officer or an AD Officer? Or is there some sort of a selection done to determine suitability for either trades? (The recruiting website is not very clear about this - http://www.forces.ca/en/job/artilleryofficer-17#education-2).

2. Can Field Artillery Officers find themselves posted in an AD Regiment and vice-versa?

Thanks,

AGB.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: Cardstonkid on October 31, 2011, 18:52:24
All arty officers do the field training first. Then after DP1.2 you are assigned to Air Defense, SDA, etc.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: jeffb on November 13, 2011, 19:49:38
All artillery officers are trained as field artillery officers. After DP1.2 some are selected for additional training and are employed in STA (Surveillance and Target Acquisition) or Air Defence. The likelihood of actually getting an AD course these days seems to be quite slim. My peers that were posted to 4AD as long ago as Aug 2010 still do not have their AD Troop Commander course and are not expecting to get it anytime soon if at all. As 4AD is lacking an AD capability at this time, it is not possible to run a AD TC course. Everyone I know that has gone to 4AD in the last 18 months or so has been sent on the STA TC course instead. I am not privy to what the plans for career progression are in the mid to long term however so all of this is subject to change.

There are examples of officers who are initially employed in an AD role that find themselves back in a field regiment although this is not common. STA qualified officers could conceivably serve at any of the Regiments.

The artillery is in a period of transformation these days though so do not get too wrapped around the axle about where you will serve with what qualifications. Depending on what rumours you believe, the above may be true 2 years from now or the career progression of officers may look dramatically different.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
Post by: Allgunzblazing on November 13, 2011, 20:01:56
Cardtonkid and jeffb,

Thank you for the replies. I really hope that there are Direct Entry openings in Artillery next fiscal...

Cheers,

ABG.
Title: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: army1 on December 25, 2011, 18:55:29
I have a question regarding the job(s) of artillery officers.

I heard that many officers become Forward Observational Officers after 2-4 years as a regular field officer. Do you have a choice later on as to what type of job (as an officer) you want to do or do the forces tell you 'you will now become a forward observational officer'?

Do artillery officers sometimes fight as infantry like artillery soldiers? What job options are there for artillery officers (other than going into air defence STA)?

- army1
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: GnyHwy on December 25, 2011, 20:18:07
With the current plan all Artillery officers will do a FOO course, but not all will be employed as FOOs.  2-4 years is about correct, but I believe we are a little back logged so the wait may be closer to 4 or even longer; potential and performance can make that number fluctuate.

After getting the course,and being employed as a FOO, you will only be there for a couple years; potentially 3-4 depending in situation.  Normally after a couple of years as a FOO, maybe a FAC crse, a FOO moves onto a command staff job, or tech staff, or maybe 2 i/c (BK) of a battery.  After these you could be promoted to Maj and after that, there are too many branches to cover.

FOOs also fight as Infantry soldiers.  In order to bring fire down on the enemy you must be in a postion of observation.  That tends to be right along side of the Infantry.

Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: army1 on December 25, 2011, 21:06:58
Okay that clears up a lot, thanks.

Also: Can you choose not to be employed as a FOO (are there other options at that point of your career) or is it standard and part of the job (no options)?
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: Simian Turner on December 26, 2011, 00:59:47
After getting the course,and being employed as a FOO, you will only be there for a couple years; potentially 3-4 depending in situation.  Normally after a couple of years as a FOO, maybe a FAC crse, a FOO moves onto a command staff job, or tech staff, or maybe 2 i/c (BK) of a battery.  After these you would be promoted to Maj and after that, there are too many branches to cover.

GnyHwy,
I would be careful with your liberal use of the terms 'normally' and 'would be promoted', from personal experience in the Artillery there isn't a norm despite what the DP charts indicate and not all those who do a "command staff job, or tech staff, or maybe 2 i/c (BK) of a battery" will be promoted so you might say 'could be promoted'.

army1,
As for whether or not you can choose your jobs such as being employed as a FOO, your opinion may be sought but disinterest in your chain of command's plan for you is seldom rewarded.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: GnyHwy on December 26, 2011, 11:04:19
What job options are there for artillery officers (other than going into air defence STA)?

Also: Can you choose not to be employed as a FOO (are there other options at that point of your career) or is it standard and part of the job (no options)?

If your not AD, STA or FOO, that doesn't leave a whole of options for Jnr Os; for Jnr Os, those are pretty much it, other than thankless admin jobs. 

Being employed as a FOO is generally sought after and expected if you are in the field artillery.  Many senior persons I have met throughout the years refer back to their time in a FOO party as some of the best times they ever had in the military. 

P.S. Simian, I fixed the would to read could.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: jeffb on December 26, 2011, 13:59:27
With the current plan all Artillery officers will do a FOO course, but not all will be employed as FOOs.  2-4 years is about correct, but I believe we are a little back logged so the wait may be closer to 4 or even longer; potential and performance can make that number fluctuate.

After getting the course,and being employed as a FOO, you will only be there for a couple years; potentially 3-4 depending in situation.  Normally after a couple of years as a FOO, maybe a FAC crse, a FOO moves onto a command staff job, or tech staff, or maybe 2 i/c (BK) of a battery.  After these you could be promoted to Maj and after that, there are too many branches to cover.

I can't speak for how this works in the Reserves but in the Reg Force field regiments there is no way you will get a FOO position for 3-4 years. The average now is more like 6 months to a year before doing a BK job or being sent off to a RSS position, recruiting center, IG (Instructor in Gunnery) course, Tech Staff or some other random staff job.

The "average" career progression at the regiment right now, if there is such a thing as average, sees a DEO (Direct Entry Officer) junior officer arriving at the Regiment with 1-2 years already in the training system. They are usually employed as a Troop Leader or Troop Commander for 1-2 years. They may also fill a role as an Admin Officer at the Battery Level or be employed as the A/Adj, A/RCPO or A/OPS O. After the 1-2 year period as a TC/TL, they are looking at going on the FOO course. Following TOC (turret operator course) and the LAV OPV course, they are loaded on the FOO course. They should be finishing the FOO course with about 2-3 years in the Regiment with most being closer to 3 years. After the FOO course if you are employed as a FOO or FOO/FAC, expect to be there about a year. Following that, it's either posted out of the Regiment on your first extra regimental employment (ERE) or into a more senior role in the Regiment such as Ops O, Adj or as a BK, FSCC O, STACC O, etc.  In all this time they will be expected to complete numerous courses such as AJOSQ, ATOC, OPME's (hopefully), possibly a STA TC course if so employed and a whole slew of "other" courses such as the Casualty Assisting Officer course.

Throw in a deployment for good measure and you have a very busy, but enjoyable,  time for a junior officer at their first Regimental employment.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: GnyHwy on December 26, 2011, 18:04:54
I can't speak for how this works in the Reserves but in the Reg Force field regiments there is no way you will get a FOO position for 3-4 years. The average now is more like 6 months to a year before doing a BK job or being sent off to a RSS position, recruiting center, IG (Instructor in Gunnery) course, Tech Staff or some other random staff job.

They should be finishing the FOO course with about 2-3 years in the Regiment with most being closer to 3 years. After the FOO course if you are employed as a FOO or FOO/FAC, expect to be there about a year. 

I am not doubting your observations of 6 months to a year, and I am quite certain you are no doubt correct, but really? 

6 months is barely enough time to take a good crap; let alone proper work up training or an actual tour.  I wonder if that is the direct result of trying to get every Arty O the FOO Course and the tick in the box of being a FOO.  The last I heard or seen was a large back log of Subbies and Jnr Capts awaiting the FOO crse, and if all Arty Os shall do the FOO crse, the end result would be that you won't get enough time to learn the job before the next guy comes along.

The madness will no doubt have to cool eventually and the bottleneck close, which would bring us back to the longer stays as a FOO that I have witnessed.  Granted 3-4 years as a FOO is a bit extreme, but not impossible and it wouldn't surprise me if it happens again in the next 10 years.

Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: jeffb on December 26, 2011, 18:31:48
The 1 year figure was more for guys who are not going to be deploying as a FOO but I suspect you are correct about your predictions for the future. By way of illustrating the bottleneck right now, the last FOO course ended a few weeks ago and another FOO course is starting up in Jan. That means that the guys who just got off the FOO course will be "senior" guys 4 months from now once the Jan course graduates and the current senior FOO's are posted out on IG courses, RSS positions, etc.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: rampage800 on December 26, 2011, 20:12:17
Yea to reiterate what Jeffb said unfortunately the amount of time officers are receiving in the FOO role is very minimal just due to the backlog of junior officers right now. The piece that I believe will come back to haunt the Regiments in about 5-7 years is when some of those FOO's come back in as BC's to the Regiments but have minimal actual experience with the GFC's.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: jeffb on December 27, 2011, 12:01:24
Rampage, good point but there will be some of us junior officers who get at least some more exposure to FOOing at the school or at RSS positions I should think in that first ERE.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: Ralph on December 29, 2011, 11:02:56
Jeff - exposure, yes, but unless you're posted to W Bty as a FOO, you're on the IG course and upon completion will be teaching on the FOO course. RSS is the same - you are the SME/mentor for the PRes and are expected to train them.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: Petard on December 30, 2011, 00:07:50
Truth of the matter is the opportunities to even train OP parties are getting fewer and harder to come by, especially as Reg F Jnr O in a P res unit
Given the state of the C3, and ammo limits lately for P Res, it'll actually be rare you'll do any "FOOing" live. If you happen to be one of the units stuck with an old Phoenix system you might not even see much (any) time in the simulator either
None of the postings to Reserve units are to be a FOO, typically it is to be the RCPO/OPs O/Adjt, although on some occasions you might end up having to fill in the spot simply because of low turn out on an FTX.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: jeffb on December 30, 2011, 12:03:24
That is disappointing Petard. I knew that RSS didn't involve being a FOO necessarily but I had understood that RSS officers found themselves in the FOO role on Ex's from time to time.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: Petard on December 31, 2011, 16:54:31
Jeffb, a Reg F Capt with P res will still be at the OP, sometime, but genrally it is rare for them to be the actual FOO
But 200 HE for the year doesn't go far, so best to focus on getting the Reserve pers trained on shooting it

Linking back to the original question, the Reg F staff with a P Res unit spends a great deal of time ensuring the unit meets the Individual Battle Task Standards. I'm not sure if the original poster is familiar with what IBTS means, so, IBTS involves mostly basic soldering skills, such as: personal and crew served weapon refresher, search & security drills/procedures, mine/IED awareness, etc. So Artillery units do spend a lot of time on basic soldering skills.

Maintaining Artillery skill sets are important, but typically in any of the Reserve CBG the priority is to achieve a high % of IBTS   
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: Old Sweat on December 31, 2011, 17:17:07
Petard

How does 200 HE shape up against previous years allocation? I also assume there is an area pool and a separate pot for the schools run during the summer. Still, it is better than nothing and given the number of training weekeds a regiment spends on the ranges, a fair amount could be achieved.

It would be nice to have more, but I remember as a teenage CP and Recce Tech in a regular regiment doing day after day after day of dry fire and movement because we didn't have the bullets for live firing. Even as a subaltern in my early twenties, we were still short of ammunition. It was not until the late sixties and early seventies that we began to get a decent amount of ammunition for training. Where it would hurt was in the training of the FOO and BC parties, especially in fire planning. The old puff range could only do so much. Is there an OP simulator available to a militia regiment in its home station or at Petawawa or Meaford?
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: Petard on December 31, 2011, 17:52:58
Petard

How does 200 HE shape up against previous years allocation?...Is there an OP simulator available to a militia regiment in its home station or at Petawawa or Meaford?

DDAT gave a good overview of the Army's "grapeshot" to AAB this past fall, the presentation can be seen at
www.artillery.net/beta/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/DDAT-Ammo-Brief-to-AAB-Final.pdf)
I know on the individual unit basis the numbers have been getting smaller each year. The gist of that presentation, to me, indicates the new capabilities coming on line (CCV and TAPV) will not come with additional funds for the NP ammunition budget. So, I expect 105mm How ammunition will become even more limited as those new veh types reach FOC

Reserve units are not served very well WRT simulators. Half of the units have an old system called Phoenix, which is no longer supportable; if it breaks it stays broke. Many are broken. The other half have a system simply called the IFT (Indirect Fire Trainer) within their lines, and there are additional IFTs at the training centres (Meaford doesn't have theirs anymore, but it's a long story why). The IFT is arguably very obsolete and does not support training with any basic tools available to the FOO today (Vector 21 or GPS for example). Understandably both have very crude graphics compared to today's computer games, and consequently they can do little to teach the terminal effects of different ammunition types either

Recently the Reg F took delivery of a more up to date simulator IFFS (Fidelity Tech's Call for Fire Trainer), but most P Res units do not typically have access to them.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
Post by: Old Sweat on December 31, 2011, 18:18:33
Thanks. It is an interesting presentation.
Title: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: CSouth on April 03, 2012, 10:49:12
Hello,

I'm currently undergoing the application process for ROTP.  My interview is approaching, and I was instructed to study up on the roles and responsibilities of my chosen military specialties (Armour and Artillery).  Are there any resources I should be looking at in preparation for this?  Also, any general interview tips would be helpful, such as key things a recruiter will be looking to hear, in order to achieve the best interview I can.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: The Travel Is There on April 03, 2012, 10:58:51
Forces.ca

As a perspective officer I would expect that you would be able to figure that out on your own though.
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: Journeyman on April 03, 2012, 11:03:19
As a perspective officer I would expect that you would be able to figure that out on your own though.
That's one point of view.    :whistle:
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: CSouth on April 03, 2012, 11:04:12
Forces.ca

As a perspective officer I would expect that you would be able to figure that out on your own though.

Thank you for the quick response, and yes, I figured that one out on my own.  I was looking more for input from officers in these divisions, with first hand experiences in these fields.  Something that wasn't written as a recruitment tool, with a little more... grit?
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: ward0043 on April 03, 2012, 12:25:21
This site is really big on using the search function to avoid useless threads like this. I'll show you just one of the threads on this site that you can use to begin your research:


Army.ca Forums » Army.ca » The Combat Arms » Armour » Topic:  Life as an Armoured Officer

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,100260.0.html
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: matthew1786 on April 03, 2012, 12:37:50
Forces.ca

As a perspective officer I would expect that you would be able to figure that out on your own though.

I could swear that I've seen this very same mistake in another thread somwhere in almost the exact same context.  ;D
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: PMedMoe on April 03, 2012, 12:45:42
I could swear that I've seen this very same mistake in another thread somwhere in almost the exact same context.  ;D

User name perhaps?  http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,101102.msg1123816.html#msg1123816 (http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,101102.msg1123816.html#msg1123816)

Edit to correct spelling.
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: matthew1786 on April 03, 2012, 12:49:00
Uer name perhaps?  http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,101102.msg1123816.html#msg1123816 (http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,101102.msg1123816.html#msg1123816)


AH Yes!  :rofl:
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: Allgunzblazing on April 03, 2012, 15:25:56
Hello CSouth,

I had done the following in preparation for my interview -

1. Info on the Internet - I went over all the material that was posted for the trades of my choice on the following websites -
a. www.forces.ca
b. www.forces.gc.ca
c. http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land-terre/home-accueil-eng.asp
d. http://www.goarmy.com/
e. http://www.army.mod.uk/join/join.aspx
f. http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFulltext/RTO/MP/RTO-MP-055///MP-055-30.pdf
g. http://www.armee.forces.gc.ca/34gbc/entrevueen.pdf
h. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery
i. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Artillery
j. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Care_Administration

2. Speaking with people in the trade -

For this I went to some of the local militia units. I told them that I was a Regular Force DEO applicant, however I'd like to know more about their job not just to prepare for the interview but to increase my knowledge base. I spoke with members of my family (who are ex and current officers in a foreign army). One of my trade choices was HCA. For this I went and met the administrator of a civilian hospital.

3. Books -

One of the books I invested in was "The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Artillery" by Ian V. Hogg. Before the interview, I had read this book twice from cover to cover.

4. Mock interviews -

I did numerous mock interviews with just myself and my wife. This helped me a lot on the actual day.

5. Knowing the trade, organisation and yourself -

This goes for any kind of organisation. The interviewer(s) will have only a few hours of time in which to interview you. Unlike your family or teachers, they only know you through the paper work that is in front of them - Reliability Screening results, forms submitted during application, degrees, CFAT and medical results, etc. The MCCs give you every opportunity to prove to them that you will be an ideal candidate. It is imperative that you know very, very well the trades of your choice, the CF in general and yourself.

6. Reference/ Commendation letters -

For the interview, I had taken along a folder in which I had kept my degrees, reference letters and commendation letters. (I had not been told to do so). For most of the questions that I was asked, I had a official letter to back the example that I was citing. The interviewers were very impressed with this. They made copies of all my commendation letters and placed them in my file.

7. Dress and deportment -

I had worn a suit for my interview. At the very least one must wear dress clothes with proper lace-up shoes and a tie.

Lastly, I am not a recruiter or a member of the CF. I am just an applicant. The above mentioned pointers stood me well, that is why I am sharing them.

All the best,

AGB.
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: Trick on April 03, 2012, 15:47:58
I haven't done my Interview yet, but the above seems to be a perfect example of how to be prepared. I don't mean to look down on NCMs at all, but I imagine that as an Officer applicant they'll expect you to show more initiative when it comes to your application. Expanding your knowledge by reading books and seeking out experienced individuals I think is important. I re-submitted my app for Infantry, Armour, and Artillery Officer (DEO) not too long ago myself.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: Allgunzblazing on April 03, 2012, 16:20:20
Hi Trick,

You're correct about the initiative part. Going in with all the letters was purely my own brainchild along with all the rest of the preparation which I had done.

The competition these days is fierce. My mindset during the entire selection process has been to get the highest scores at every stage.

Being well prepared, will give one confidence. The interviewers will know right away that this candidate has gone above and beyond the normal expectation. During the interview, I mentioned of my accord all the preparation I had done - like memorizing the names of senior officers, the chain of command, all the guns used by the CF to date, the names of all the brigades along with the brigade commanders, etc. By the time I was finished both the MCCs were quiet for several moments. While showing me the way out, one of the MCCs told me that he had not met anyone else who had done so much prep.

I strongly believe that it is better to be over prepared than under.

Hopefully, one day we get a job offer from the CF!

Cheers,

AGB.
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: Trick on April 03, 2012, 16:26:34
Ha indeed.

If you don't mind my asking, what trades were you interviewing for, and have you been Merit Listed? I don't see too many DEO applicants for the combat arms, so it's always good to see what their experiences were like!
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: ward0043 on April 03, 2012, 16:33:29
One of the books I invested in was "The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Artillery" by Ian V. Hogg. Before the interview, I had read this book twice from cover to cover.

If you don't mind my asking, what trades were you interviewing for, and have you been Merit Listed? I don't see too many DEO applicants for the combat arms, so it's always good to see what their experiences were like!

I'd say it's safe to say one of his professions of choice was Artillery :P
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: Allgunzblazing on April 03, 2012, 16:48:16
LOL, yes - Artillery is my first choice. I would choose to be an Artillery O, over a billion dollar lottery.

My application process began in 2009. I had been merit listed for Arty at that time. However my file had to be closed shortly after the Security Clearance forms were sent to DPM Security. (The CF went back to hiring citizens only).

Come 2011, I became a Canadian citizen and my file was reopened. This time I could not put down Arty as a choice, because it was not open. However, I was merit listed and selected by the HCA selection board. They were not able to make a job offer because my security clearance still has to be done by DPM Security.

So, this is the long and short of my application process - been through many hoops many times, but for all practical purposes I'm still at the starting line.
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: Danjanou on April 03, 2012, 18:13:00
I've stickied this thread based on Allgunsblazing post on research. That is what anyone should be doing for any job not just DEO.  ZGood prep and research will pay off.


Staff
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: Allgunzblazing on April 03, 2012, 18:53:24
Hello Danjanou,

Thank you - it sure feels good to be recognized and appreciated.

You couldn't be more correct about spending time in preparation, be it for the CF or for that matter any job on the civvy street. If one wants something, it is essential to deserve it. Equally important is to prove to the decision makers, that they are indeed making the correct choice.

Although this thread is for Armour/ Artillery DEO applicants, my post was meant for all those who are in the recruiting process.

These are tough times and qualifying for a job offer is not easy. Gone are the days when one needed to jog on the spot for two minutes, then undergo a dental examination, there after take the bus to basic! http://www.legionmagazine.com/en/index.php/2005/03/going-through-the-hoops-to-be-in-the-forces/

Cheers,

AGB.
Title: Reserve Artillery Officer Training
Post by: jmmcintyre on April 12, 2012, 16:07:07
I'm the recruiter at a reserve artillery unit.  I'd like to know what training is like for new officers, as I can't ask the officers at my unit because they were all commissioned in the pre-Boer War era.  Currently I have one Ocdt who is taking BMQ with other Pte recruits, and then he's off to BMOQ and then CAP this summer.  What do these courses entail and are they the last step in the training or is there DP1.1?  Thanks in advance, JM.
Title: Re: Reserve Artillery Officer Training
Post by: Cardstonkid on April 12, 2012, 18:56:54
After Basic the candidate will go through BMOQ. This will introduce them to the map and compass, orders, and if I am not mistaken an overview of the section in battle. This course is designed to lay the ground work of leadership and soldiering skills to get through CAP. (If that is what it is still called)

CAP is 10 weeks and is broken into 5 mods so Reservists can take the course in small packets if needed. (CAP is a combined Reserve/ Reg Force course) Think of CAP as a combination of BMQL and PLQ 1-6. It is usually belt fed ****, much like PLQ. (Of course this seems to change from year to year and may vary with staff) The course tests the candidates ability to lead in a high pressure environment and introduces them to leading a section in battle. Candidates are taught the 9mm Browning pistol, C-9, Grenades, and they qualify PWT 3 on the C7. (At least this is what I was taught in 2006)  CAP is taught by Sgt's for the most part.

After CAP the candidate will attend DP-1. This course, like CAP is broken into modules.  It is a 12 week course with 6 modules. It, like CAP is a combined Reg Force / Reserve Force course. The course will cover the duties of a Recce O, CPO, GPO, and the candidates will learn all of the positions in each one of these jobs. As well they must understand ammo, fire D, and pass the Safety Officers test. Depending on the staff this can be a **** course, but ultimately the **** is the work. The information comes fast and furious and in many cases you are allotted half the time allotted to NCM's to pass the same EO's /PO's. for example the CP tech qualification takes 2 weeks for officers, 4 weeks for Reserve NCM's. (Mind you the NCM course fires more missions and gives its candidates a higher standard of proficiency.  Regardless the tests are the same, and they can be a challenge to put it mildly. Even if you excel at this kind of work, you will still find it work, although I suspect not everyone finds it to be hard work.  DP1.1 is taught by ACK IG's and WO's for the most part.

If anyone can offer any updated info from the last couple years I am sure it would flesh out this scant review.

Hope this helps.


Title: Re: Reserve Artillery Officer Training
Post by: jmmcintyre on April 13, 2012, 10:11:28
Hey thanks, that helps a lot.  I don't know if it's still called CAP or not, it's either CAP or BMOQ-L.  When I was given this Ocdt's schedule, it had both names on it.  I'm sure the name will change again next year.  But thanks, I was never totally sure what to tell Ocdt applicants what to expect when they go on course, but I could certainly fill gunner applicants in on what they're going to go through, this helps a lot.
Title: Re: Reserve Artillery Officer Training
Post by: jmmcintyre on April 18, 2012, 13:24:13
One more question related to my last.  Once an Ocdt completes CAP or whatever it's called now, are they then commissioned and do the DP 1.1 as a 2Lt, or do they have to complete the whole process before commissioning?  And at what point do they receive their cap badge?  Is that after the DP1.1?
Title: Re: Reserve Artillery Officer Training
Post by: Cardstonkid on April 20, 2012, 15:39:45
I am not certain about the OCdt rank change. A DEO is not an officer Cadet, but a 2Lt from the start,  but RMC students are all 2Lt's by the time they do their phase training and they have not completed their degree. I remember on CAP we did have a couple of OCdts, but most of my course were DEO's. I am sure someone will know how that all works.

To go to BOTPL  (CAP) RCA unit candidates all wear the NCM cap badge of the RCA. On the DP1.1 course, no cloth cap badges are allowed, as they are reserved for trained artillery officers only. (Some units allow their CAP qualified officers to wear a cloth cap badge, despite the standing orders to the contrary, but this seems to be pretty limited.) Once the Reserve officer has completed DP1.1 they are given their new beret with cloth cap badge.  Reg Force officers get theirs when they complete 1.2.

Title: Re: Reserve Artillery Officer Training
Post by: Spazz on April 20, 2012, 19:30:55
.
To go to BOTPL  (CAP) RCA unit candidates all wear the NCM cap badge of the RCA.

Which is a terrible policy. Why should they wear the NCM cap badge when they are not qualified on the guns? I remember there was almost a mutiny in my unit when our last cap qualified 2Lt started sporting one...
Title: Re: Reserve Artillery Officer Training
Post by: jeffb on April 22, 2012, 15:33:33
seems to be pretty limited.) Once the Reserve officer has completed DP1.1 they are given their new beret with cloth cap badge.  Reg Force officers get theirs when they complete 1.2.

Not anymore. For about a year now even Reg Force officers receive their cloth cap badges upon completion of DP 1.1.
Title: Re: Reserve Artillery Officer Training
Post by: Allgunzblazing on April 22, 2012, 17:13:36
Quick question - do Reserve DEOs get their (metal) RCA cap badges only after BMQ?
Title: Re: Reserve Artillery Officer Training
Post by: jmmcintyre on April 23, 2012, 11:26:21
Thanks for the answers guys.  That makes sense, however I find it crazy how anyone can be commissioned as an officer before receiving any training, or how someone can wear an arty cap badge before they're trained on the guns.  I remember a few years ago, 2Lts on a BMQ wearing cornflakes.  I thought that was pretty laughable, but non of them stuck around.  But thanks again, now I fully explain to officer applicants what they can expect when signing up.
Title: Re: Reserve Artillery Officer Training
Post by: Cardstonkid on April 23, 2012, 15:09:16
I agree it is a bit strange to be giving out the NCM cap badge to untrained officers. I was not comfortable with it at all. (I was the only 2lt in my unit not to come up through the ranks, so to me it was particularly uncomfortable) On CAP it was required that all candidates have a cap badge reflecting their trade, and since the cloth patch was a no go, it had to be the NCM's badge. Personally I felt a cornflake was fine until I had earned something different. I think most untrained officers felt/ feel the same way.

It is good to hear all DP1.1 officers get their cloth cap badge now. It was embarrassing to have half the course get theirs and the other half have to wait until the completion of DP1.2

Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Teen_Cadet on June 19, 2013, 14:58:25
I realize I'm bumping a really old thread here, but I'm hoping someone with the knowledge will see and help me out. I understand all the different arty officer positions and position by rank (from reading this thread and others) but I'm wondering; at what point (if they do at all) leave the gun line? My assumptions are, once you get promoted to major are you basically no longer out on the gun line? (You're in more administrative role) Or do you always get to be out commanding the troops on the gun line? 
(I'm also assuming it's called gun line, sorry if the battery is called something else.)

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Old Sweat on June 19, 2013, 15:22:08
At the risk of over-simplification, most officers are not on the gun line as you call it, although gun position is more correct. A regular field regiment has two gun batteries, a STA battery (for locating enemy artillery and finding other stuff,) a FOO battery that provides all the observers for the regiment and a headquarters battery, along with a regimental headquarters. There are four gun troops, each with two officers in the rank of 2nd lieutenant to captain. The other thirty-plus are doing other things, from commanding STA organizations to providing observation, liaison and fire support coordination at all levels from combat team to brigade headquarters, and of course some are involved in administration.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Teen_Cadet on June 19, 2013, 15:39:27
Okay thanks. That's a lot of information but it answered my question very well. So, how may soldiers and guns are in one gun troop? And is that where most junior officers are? Since you mentioned from second lieutenant to captain being in charge.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Old Sweat on June 19, 2013, 15:46:06
It has been a very long time since I have been on a gun position, but basically a troop that went to Afghanistan would have had two guns, two officers, seven or eight vehicles and something less than thirty all ranks. It is a great job for a junior officer and I enjoyed myself immensely doing it decades and decades ago, labeit under different conditions and with a slightly different organization - two officers, four guns, eight vehicles and about forty troops.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Canadian.Trucker on June 19, 2013, 15:49:25
It has been a very long time since I have been on a gun position, but basically a troop that went to Afghanistan would have had two guns, two officers, seven or eight vehicles and something less than thirty all ranks. It is a great job for a junior officer and I enjoyed myself immensely doing it decades and decades ago, labeit under different conditions and with a slightly different organization - two officers, four guns, eight vehicles and about forty troops.
OS, what were the handling drills like on the catapault anyway?  ;)
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: GnyHwy on June 19, 2013, 16:40:28
Okay thanks. That's a lot of information but it answered my question very well. So, how may soldiers and guns are in one gun troop? And is that where most junior officers are? Since you mentioned from second lieutenant to captain being in charge.

Yes, the most junior positions are on the gun position, as well as some misc. admin positions.  Once an O leaves the guns, he will likely move to being a FOO (a crse which all Arty Os complete), but he could also be employed in STA.  There are far too many positions to list for a Capt, and the spread of experience from a brand new Capt to an experienced one is quite large, and some of them can involve a lot of responsibility:  Ops O, RCPO, IG, Tech Staff O etc.

 
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Teen_Cadet on June 19, 2013, 16:53:45
Yes, the most junior positions are on the gun position, as well as some misc. admin positions.  Once an O leaves the guns, he will likely move to being a FOO (a crse which all Arty Os complete), but he could also be employed in STA.  There are far too many positions to list for a Capt, and the spread of experience from a brand new Capt to an experienced one is quite large, and some of them can involve a lot of responsibility:  Ops O, RCPO, IG, Tech Staff O etc.

That sounds very interesting, thank you. Being a platoon leader of a gun troop sounds like an amazing experience, and the more senior positions sound fulfilling too. This information has definitly helped with my decision making for when I apply.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: jeffb on June 19, 2013, 19:53:16
Yes, the most junior positions are on the gun position, as well as some misc. admin positions.  Once an O leaves the guns, he will likely move to being a FOO (a crse which all Arty Os complete), but he could also be employed in STA.  There are far too many positions to list for a Capt, and the spread of experience from a brand new Capt to an experienced one is quite large, and some of them can involve a lot of responsibility:  Ops O, RCPO, IG, Tech Staff O etc.

Sort of but not really. I for one have never served as a troop commander in a Gun Bty. After my phase training I was immediately posted to an STA Bty within a direct support Regiment. There is also a whole Regiment in which none of the officers will probably ever serve on a gun position. (4AD ring a bell?) The Royal Regiment is a large and diverse organization especially when you consider the Reserves. Also, the experiences will vary widely from unit to unit and year to year. It is quite conceivable that in a few years there vast majority of officers across the Royal Regiment will NEVER command anything on a gun position if the reserves loose the gun task and become STA and mortar units.

All that being said, gun position operations is what ground will probably always remain our primary function. Your phase training will hammer this home to you and I am quite confident that even after spending several years away from "the box" I could quite quickly get back up to speed as a Command Post Officer as could any Artillery Officer.

The wide variety of tasks and career paths available to an Artillery Officer is precisely what makes this such a good profession.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Bird_Gunner45 on June 19, 2013, 21:41:46
Sort of but not really. I for one have never served as a troop commander in a Gun Bty. After my phase training I was immediately posted to an STA Bty within a direct support Regiment. There is also a whole Regiment in which none of the officers will probably ever serve on a gun position. (4AD ring a bell?) The Royal Regiment is a large and diverse organization especially when you consider the Reserves. Also, the experiences will vary widely from unit to unit and year to year. It is quite conceivable that in a few years there vast majority of officers across the Royal Regiment will NEVER command anything on a gun position if the reserves loose the gun task and become STA and mortar units.

All that being said, gun position operations is what ground will probably always remain our primary function. Your phase training will hammer this home to you and I am quite confident that even after spending several years away from "the box" I could quite quickly get back up to speed as a Command Post Officer as could any Artillery Officer.

The wide variety of tasks and career paths available to an Artillery Officer is precisely what makes this such a good profession.

At this time, the intent is to start moving to the original plan of having all officers go to close support units before moving into STA and AD units.  So, you will do Dp 1.1 (Field artillery), DP 1.2 (Field artillery) and than probably be posted to 1 RCHA in Shilo, 2 RCHA in Pet, or 5 RALC in Valcartier.  From the AD perspective, we are trying to get away from new officers coming to 4 AD since they dont have the training to do any jobs.

That said... you will do a FOO course for sure as mentioned before.  Than, if you want or are volunteered, you will do the STA Tp Comd course and become a locator at a close support regiment or 4 AD or you will do the Air Defence Officer course and do Airspace Coordination or Medium Range Radar (MRR).  You will than do the Arty Ops Course (FECCO is dead/dying this year) and potentially the IG course as a STA O, AD O, or Gun O.  Than the BC course. 

AD IG course at this time is being done in England also if that floats your boat.  The intent for the IG course is to do a common course, than have pers break off into their streams.  So all IGs would do gun recce, than would break off with Gun Area guys/gals doing the OP portion, STA doing an STA portion, and AD doing an AD portion.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: GnyHwy on June 19, 2013, 21:49:17
Sort of but not really. I for one have never served as a troop commander in a Gun Bty. After my phase training I was immediately posted to an STA Bty within a direct support Regiment. There is also a whole Regiment in which none of the officers will probably ever serve on a gun position. (4AD ring a bell?) The Royal Regiment is a large and diverse organization especially when you consider the Reserves. Also, the experiences will vary widely from unit to unit and year to year. It is quite conceivable that in a few years there vast majority of officers across the Royal Regiment will NEVER command anything on a gun position if the reserves loose the gun task and become STA and mortar units.

All that being said, gun position operations is what ground will probably always remain our primary function. Your phase training will hammer this home to you and I am quite confident that even after spending several years away from "the box" I could quite quickly get back up to speed as a Command Post Officer as could any Artillery Officer.

The wide variety of tasks and career paths available to an Artillery Officer is precisely what makes this such a good profession.

I agree with pretty much all you have said, especially the wide variety statement in the last sentence.  Yeah, I forgot about 4 AD, but you can pretty much remove the AD part and insert GSR.  It's just a tradition thing now, and who knows, by the time the OP gets in they may have an AD capability back.

I want to comment on the reserves statements you made.  The STA capability is interesting and giving them UAVs that can be attached easily to Cbt Tms is probably a very good idea.  The mortars are an unfortunate result of a lack of guns, but at least they are keeping there skills up.  Mortar troops (4 tubes) would also be a great attachment to a Cbt Tm, but I wouldn't have them without max supervision.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: GnyHwy on June 19, 2013, 21:57:07
AD IG course at this time is being done in England also if that floats your boat. 

That is interesting and something that we should keep a grip on if we ever expect to get the AD capability back effectively.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Bird_Gunner45 on June 19, 2013, 22:12:59
I agree with pretty much all you have said, especially the wide variety statement in the last sentence.  Yeah, I forgot about 4 AD, but you can pretty much remove the AD part and insert GSR.  It's just a tradition thing now, and who knows, by the time the OP gets in they may have an AD capability back.

I want to comment on the reserves statements you made.  The STA capability is interesting and giving them UAVs that can be attached easily to Cbt Tms is probably a very good idea.  The mortars are an unfortunate result of a lack of guns, but at least they are keeping there skills up.  Mortar troops (4 tubes) would also be a great attachment to a Cbt Tm, but I wouldn't have them without max supervision.

The transformation of 4 AD, rumour has it, will change once the change of command is through.  The reality is that without a LRPR capability, there's no real need for a GSR.  The UAS is remaining at 4 AD to justify some positions, but the MRR will be an Air Surveillance Radar first, STA second and the ASCC capabilities will remain there.  Once the shooter piece comes back than the UAS will move out of 4 AD (hopefully).

The IG course in England is not a good COA for the long term maintainance of an AD capability, so the first COA is to maintain the IG course in England as part of the common course.  As we have ASCC and MRR(soon-ish) remaining in Canada, and an AD TSM and AD Officer course returning, as well as FECCO/Arty Ops and the BC course, there's little utility in training someone in Canada on Canadian doctrine than sending them to England to learn something different, than bring them back to teach courses in something different.   :2c: of course.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: GnyHwy on June 19, 2013, 22:40:05
ASCC capabilities will remain there.[4AD and/or 4GSR]


This is a big deal for me.  The alternative is to have broken air force folks attempting to learn army tactics/operations on the fly.  Air force no doubt need to be there, just not alone.

The IG course in England is not a good COA for the long term maintainance of an AD capability, so the first COA is to maintain the IG course in England as part of the common course.  As we have ASCC and MRR(soon-ish) remaining in Canada, and an AD TSM and AD Officer course returning, as well as FECCO/Arty Ops and the BC course, there's little utility in training someone in Canada on Canadian doctrine than sending them to England to learn something different, than bring them back to teach courses in something different.   :2c: of course.

I get it that it is pointless to learn tactics/drills/doctrine of a piece of equipment that we will never use.  I was thinking about understanding the strategy/technology.  Perhaps tech staff positions.
Title: Re: Can you explain an arty officer‘s role?
Post by: Bird_Gunner45 on June 19, 2013, 22:59:33


This is a big deal for me.  The alternative is to have broken air force folks attempting to learn army tactics/operations on the fly.  Air force no doubt need to be there, just not alone.

I get it that it is pointless to learn tactics/drills/doctrine of a piece of equipment that we will never use.  I was thinking about understanding the strategy/technology.  Perhaps tech staff positions.

Agree with the ASCC.  As for the technology, the Captains career course in the US would be a better fit for Canadian officers to keep up to date with changes.  The UK AD is quite outdated (Rapier and HVM) and they aren't developing new kit.  The US is still developing new AD kit, including Medium range, short range, and C-RAM.  As C-RAM/MANPADs are the likely way of the future (who knows?) and as we are likely to require to tie into an American TDL net, and as the US still maintains a strong GBAD capability that would be a better tie for us in the near-medium term. 
Title: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: krimynal on July 29, 2013, 20:59:32
I'm trying to read trough the website topics about this subject :

Can you explain an arty officer's role?
http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/index.php/topic,1565.0.html

Training after BMQ, Exactly what happens?
http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/index.php/topic,94005.0.html

Questions about Artillery NCM duties and career progression
http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/index.php/topic,104289.0.html

Artillery Officer Career Progression
http://forums.air-force.ca/forums/index.php/topic,90996.0.html

but I think I'm just unclear about every possible aspect of the job , a lot of people seem to speak about the FOO aspect ( not sure what this is exactly ) , and I'm trying to compare a career as an artillery officer versus an infantry officer ( please don't throw rocks at me :( )

I know its 2 WAY different jobs , but I still want to consider the biggest difference.

I just want to know if this life would be something I could consider or should I choose something else !

Thanks
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: krimynal on July 29, 2013, 21:05:10
If I look at Infantry NCM possibilities ( which I know are based on your qualities and performance )

SPECIALTY TRAINING
Infantry Soldiers may be offered the opportunity to develop specialized skills through formal courses and on-the-job training, including:

Basic Parachutist
Parachute Jumpmaster
Para Instructor
Mountain Warfare
Instructional Techniques
First Aid Instructor
Rappelmaster
Unarmed Combat Instructor
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Defence Instructor
Urban Operations
 
Top of page
ADVANCED TRAINING
As they progress in their career, Infantry Soldiers who demonstrate the required ability and potential will be offered advanced training. Available courses include:

Instructional Techniques
Primary Army Leadership
Infantry Soldier Section Commander
Infantry Soldier Platoon Second-in-Command
Infantry Soldier Company Sergeant-Major
Communicator
Reconnaissance Patrolling
Anti-Armour Gunner
Sniper
Section Commander
Eryx Gunner
Machinegunner (Heavy and General Purpose)
Small Arms Coach
25mm Gunner and light armoured vehicle Crew Commander
Winter (Arctic) and Jungle Operations
Patrol Pathfinder
Tactical Intelligence Operator


There is a LOT of different things that you can train on , how about artillery ???
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: MikeL on July 29, 2013, 21:10:12
a lot of people seem to speak about the FOO aspect ( not sure what this is exactly ) , and I'm trying to compare a career as an artillery officer versus an infantry officer ( please don't throw rocks at me :( )

Quote
Artillery adds dignity, to what would otherwise be an ugly brawl

If you read through the FOO threads it should give you a pretty good of what they do, or at least a portion of what they do.  In a really basic simple way of explaining what the FOO role is; they make sure the Artillery Guns drop big bullets onto bad guys.  If you get qualified FAC/JTAC, you tell the Pilots where you want them to drop bombs or fire rockets, etc. Plus the FOO/FAC advises the commander of the sub-unit you are attached to(ex a Infantry company) of what you(RCHA) can offer, preparing fire plans, etc. There are a number of other jobs an Artillery Officer can/will do in their time with the Regiment and ERE(outside the Regiment jobs) postings.

Have you watched the Infantry Officer and Artillery Officer videos on the recruiting website?  It'll give you a good idea of what they do and you'll be able to figure out the difference between them.

If I look at Infantry NCM possibilities ( which I know are based on your qualities and performance )
......................

There is a LOT of different things that you can train on , how about artillery ???

Yes, there are plenty of Artillery career courses NCMs can do through the various DP levels.  As well, a number of those courses listed for Infantry NCMs are available to Artillery NCMs/Officers and other trades.

Have a look through this thread to see what is available to Artillery Officers/NCMs
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,103901.0.html


There are a few Gunners on the forum, I am sure they will be along soon.  My reply is just based off speaking with Gunners and what I've read on the forum, etc.
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: Jammer on July 29, 2013, 21:23:28
You can also be shot out of a cannon.... :)
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: krimynal on July 29, 2013, 21:29:07
You can also be shot out of a cannon.... :)

I'm trying to not end up that way lol , but I guess that's what happens with bad officer hahah !
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: dangerboy on July 29, 2013, 21:34:04
None of the "specialty" training that krimynal posted are Infantry specific.  They are more or less any Army trade and most any CF trade.
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: krimynal on July 29, 2013, 21:39:02
None of the "specialty" training that krimynal posted are Infantry specific.  They are more or less any Army trade and most any CF trade.

but lets say we live in a perfect world , where everything happens like I wish ( bare with me this is a fantasy ) Could an Artillery Officer be a Parachute Jumpmaster ? or do the Arctic / jungle training ?
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: MikeL on July 29, 2013, 21:44:46
but lets say we live in a perfect world , where everything happens like I wish ( bare with me this is a fantasy ) Could an Artillery Officer be a Parachute Jumpmaster ? or do the Arctic / jungle training ?

An Artillery Officer can do Basic Para(and others), I don't know what the odds of Jumpmaster are.

I'm not sure of how many people in the CF recently have had the opportunity to do a Jungle Warfare course.  I don't know how common Advanced Winter Warfare for Arty Officers is; I only know one person who has done it, and he was a Infantry MCpl at the time. Some units have also gone up to North during the winter for exercises.
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: krimynal on July 29, 2013, 21:45:56
An Artillery Officer can be Basic Para qualified, I don't know about Jumpmaster.

I'm not sure too many people in the CF recently have had the opportunity to do a Jungle Warfare course.  Not sure how common Advanced Winter Warfare for Arty Officers is; I only know one person who has done it, and he was a Infantry MCpl at the time.

my brother-in-law ( Sergeant at the 22ND regiment in valcartier ) got chosen to do the Jungle Warfare training this year , he should be leaving soon , that's why I'm asking !
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: MikeL on July 29, 2013, 21:50:54
*Royal 22nd Regiment(R22eR)

Members have gotten to go to the jungle and train, but not everyone. Right time, right place, etc plus going Infantry doesn't mean you will get to go on it, plenty of Infantry Officers/NCMs haven't had the opportunity.

Don't base a career choice on specialty courses, especially ones that aren't common/hard to get.
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: krimynal on July 29, 2013, 21:54:22
*Royal 22nd Regiment(R22eR)

Members have gotten to go to the jungle and train, but not everyone. Right time, right place, etc plus going Infantry doesn't mean you will get to go on it, plenty of Infantry Officers/NCMs haven't had the opportunity.


Don't base a career choice on specialty courses, especially ones that aren't common/hard to get.

Definetly not trying to base around that , but I still want to know whats possible on both case , since they are both combat arms , and they are both pretty much hand in hand ( I mean artillery needs infantry and infantry needs artillery )
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: krimynal on July 30, 2013, 12:52:51
so an officer in Both trades could possibly , if everything goes well , do any of the classes mention above.  That is if the timing , place , etc. is right , but in both It wouldn't damage my application ?
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: dangerboy on July 30, 2013, 13:30:58
I don't think I understand your question. How could courses that you may or may not ever get sometime in the future have any bearing on your application?
Title: Re: Whats possible for an artillery officer ?
Post by: krimynal on July 30, 2013, 13:45:31
The thing is , I'm currently joining the artillery reserve unite here in Shawinigan as a NCM.

I'm thinking of staying there for the next 4 years ( while I do my degree ) but my main choice was Pilot

BUT , I still check for plan B and C , to be totally honest I think I would love just as much to be in the combat arms then to be a Pilot ( eventhought its 2 different jobs totally )

Had many discussion with my girlfriend about joining the combat arms instead of the air-force. 

She doesn't really like the Idea since her dad was in the infantry for 33 years , and her brother-in-law is currently in the infantry also.

She would like me to get a job a little further away from the front line , but she knows me and she knows I think about it a lot.

that's why I keep asking questions about it.

I just want to see what could my option be as an artillery officer , and see if I like the idea.
Title: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: ANicole on September 29, 2013, 02:31:22
Hello,

To give background, I am the common-law partner of someone who has recently been accepted into the Armed Forces as an Artillery Officer and he left for basic training in Saint-Jean yesterday. I have a fair idea of what training entails and the timelines associated with this (He will be in basic from September 28th until February 7th, including leave for Christmas holidays) but have very little information on what life might be like after basic has finished.

From what I know, since he is an Officer, second language training is required. It will most likely be in Quebec and that can run anywhere from 2-9 months. After he completes second language training, he will attend Artillery training in, I believe, Gagetown New Brunswick. So, I've got the basics in information but absolutely no idea of any timelines. I'm currently living close to Toronto, Ontario and am hoping to join him shortly after he completes basic to live with him while he completes second language training in Montreal (on our own dime - I realize this may not be do-able depending on what happens directly after Basic, but that is the "plan" as of right now).

So, after all that lovely information I've given, I'd love to hear from other people who have gone through to be Artillery Officers (or anything that would be similar in training I suppose) and hear about your experiences with training in all its various aspects after BMQ. Timelines for each aspect, how it's worked with your spouse and any other information I'm not privy to at the moment.

I'm just looking to get a feel for what it has been like for others since I am fully aware that in the army, nothing is guaranteed or set in stone. I would prefer not to be apart for second language training as it's a pretty decent schedule and I see no reason to stay here in Ontario. We have already decided that I will be selling most of our non-essential items in preparation for this move and also to ensure that our life is as portable as it needs to be. I don't feel as though I have unrealistic expectations but would really appreciate hearing what other people's experiences have been like.

Thank you so much in advance!

P.S - Anyone reading this post who is the spouse of a CF member, any links to forums for families would be greatly appreciated. I've found a couple but none that have been especially helpful in regards to information. I love the input on here but it can be a bit brutal at times and I'm still a bit fresh as he only left yesterday (sorry for any jumbled writing, I've been awake for far too many hours!)

- ANicole
Title: Re: Artillery Officer - what to expect?
Post by: ANicole on September 29, 2013, 02:36:53
Forgot to add one thing - I have searched the forums to try and figure this out before posting a question on the forums (I'm fully aware that you guys aren't fans of repeating yourselves), but if this information has been posted elsewhere, feel free to post the link to where I can read it.

Again, thank you! : )
Title: Re: Artillery Officer - what to expect?
Post by: FJAG on September 29, 2013, 03:19:59
Sorry that I won't be too much help as I went through my training in 1969 in Shilo and things have changed a lot since then.

I just wanted to take the opportunity to welcome you to the family.

It looks to me that you already have the right attitude - stay flexible and keep your sense of humour while things are up in the air. Life will become more stable once you get to a regiment even though you'll still have time apart while he goes off on courses. Kathy and I were posted to both Shilo and Petawawa and found our years there staring a young family as very happy ones.

Best of luck.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Artillery Officer - what to expect?
Post by: Bird_Gunner45 on September 29, 2013, 08:00:14
Hello,

To give background, I am the common-law partner of someone who has recently been accepted into the Armed Forces as an Artillery Officer and he left for basic training in Saint-Jean yesterday. I have a fair idea of what training entails and the timelines associated with this (He will be in basic from September 28th until February 7th, including leave for Christmas holidays) but have very little information on what life might be like after basic has finished.

From what I know, since he is an Officer, second language training is required. It will most likely be in Quebec and that can run anywhere from 2-9 months. After he completes second language training, he will attend Artillery training in, I believe, Gagetown New Brunswick. So, I've got the basics in information but absolutely no idea of any timelines. I'm currently living close to Toronto, Ontario and am hoping to join him shortly after he completes basic to live with him while he completes second language training in Montreal (on our own dime - I realize this may not be do-able depending on what happens directly after Basic, but that is the "plan" as of right now).

So, after all that lovely information I've given, I'd love to hear from other people who have gone through to be Artillery Officers (or anything that would be similar in training I suppose) and hear about your experiences with training in all its various aspects after BMQ. Timelines for each aspect, how it's worked with your spouse and any other information I'm not privy to at the moment.

I'm just looking to get a feel for what it has been like for others since I am fully aware that in the army, nothing is guaranteed or set in stone. I would prefer not to be apart for second language training as it's a pretty decent schedule and I see no reason to stay here in Ontario. We have already decided that I will be selling most of our non-essential items in preparation for this move and also to ensure that our life is as portable as it needs to be. I don't feel as though I have unrealistic expectations but would really appreciate hearing what other people's experiences have been like.

Thank you so much in advance!

P.S - Anyone reading this post who is the spouse of a CF member, any links to forums for families would be greatly appreciated. I've found a couple but none that have been especially helpful in regards to information. I love the input on here but it can be a bit brutal at times and I'm still a bit fresh as he only left yesterday (sorry for any jumbled writing, I've been awake for far too many hours!)

- ANicole

As an arty officer your spouse will complete basic in St. Jean, but the second language training is no longer offered after, so he will be sent to Gagetown to do his BMOQ-L (CAP). Once done he will complete his phase 3 and likely wait a year for phase 4 as the courses being offered are being reduced. Once trained, he will be posted to a field arty regiment (Shilo, Petawawa, or Valcartier) or to 4 RCA (GSR) in Gagetown to do Air Defence or STA.

If sent to the Sta or AD he will do an additional troop commander course and if sent to the field arty he will do his forward observation officer course (theses courses should be anywhere from 2-5 years after he reaches his regiment). Further, he will do arty ops (8 weeks) and may potentially do the forward air controller course, naval gunfire course, and the instructor in gunnery course, a 9 month course at gagetown to be an instructor at the arty school.

So, he can expect lots of visits to gagetown! That said, there are lots of options for him in the arty. If he chooses sta he will be employed within a light counter mortar radar (LCMR) or acoustic weapon locating system (HALO) troop at a Field regiment or within a Small UAV troop or, in the future, a medium range radar troop in 4RCA (GSR). If choosing the AD path he will work in an airspace coordination centre and in the future in an air defence weapon troop or MRR troop.

If field, he will work in a M777 troop and then as a forward observation officer.

After this initial tour he will be considered for IG or other training.

The Arty officers a number of posting changes and career options. I've been an ADATS troop commander, AD battery Ops O, Scan Eagle UAS Troop Commander overseas, and done the FOO and field IG course.

Also, I don't believe that he will do second language training right away. Who told him this.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer - what to expect?
Post by: jeffb on September 29, 2013, 10:20:23
Great info from Bird Gunner there. Check out the Artillery sub-thread on this forum for more.

One thing that you may not want to hear though is that you should be prepared that none of what BG describes will happen. There are a lot of people that start training only to voluntarily release (quit) or be unsuccessful. Prepare yourself for that possibility. Of the dozen or so artillery officer candidates that started basic training with me, I think only 6 of 7 actually ended up passing all of our training and ending up at a regiment. Just keep in mind that while your partner should be planning for success, you may want to have that plan B in the back of your mind.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer - what to expect?
Post by: mariomike on September 29, 2013, 10:47:29
Forgot to add one thing - I have searched the forums to try and figure this out before posting a question on the forums (I'm fully aware that you guys aren't fans of repeating yourselves), but if this information has been posted elsewhere, feel free to post the link to where I can read it.

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=001303416948774225061%3Aqhcx9pz3dku&ie=UTF-8&q=artillery+officer&sa=Search#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=artillery%20officer&gsc.page=1
Title: Re: Artillery Officer - what to expect?
Post by: Bird_Gunner45 on September 29, 2013, 11:15:08
Great info from Bird Gunner there. Check out the Artillery sub-thread on this forum for more.

One thing that you may not want to hear though is that you should be prepared that none of what BG describes will happen. There are a lot of people that start training only to voluntarily release (quit) or be unsuccessful. Prepare yourself for that possibility. Of the dozen or so artillery officer candidates that started basic training with me, I think only 6 of 7 actually ended up passing all of our training and ending up at a regiment. Just keep in mind that while your partner should be planning for success, you may want to have that plan B in the back of your mind.

 :goodpost:

Good advice. Not everyone is cut out to be any trade so you have to maintain a sense of reality that army employment isn't a right.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer - what to expect?
Post by: ANicole on September 29, 2013, 11:40:18
Thank you for the replies.

And I do know that not everyone makes it through training and successfully into the career of their choice. This isn't something I'm counting on, but he wants to do this with a passion so I'm not very concerned that he won't be successful.
 

Different people have told him different things in regards to what should be expected, but without concrete information it's bloody difficult to figure out what the next stage of life will be. Since I'm not currently working a job that requires me to stay in one particular place, it allows me to be able to move anywhere in the country that he is stationed - this is why I'm trying to get a better idea of what's to come after Basic.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer - what to expect?
Post by: jeffb on September 29, 2013, 12:44:04
The reason that you haven't been told too much concrete information is that nothing is concrete. This is true in the training period and even more so as your career progresses. Learn to embrace, or at least accept, uncertainty and you'll do well as a service spouse. The other thing I'll warn you about is that it's much harder in many ways to be married to the Army then to actually BE in the Army. Your partner will be off doing relatively exciting and interesting things with some great friends and you'll generally be left behind to run the equally important, but arguably less exciting, home. I love being and artillery officer but I'm not sure that I'm strong enough to be a service spouse.

Best of luck.
Title: New Reserve Artillery Officer Questions
Post by: patcosgro on January 14, 2015, 10:37:51
Hello,

I live in Guelph Ontario and am a new applicant to the Reserves as Artillery Officer.  I am just waiting for a call to book interview and medical, and had a couple questions.

1.  Any inside perspective on the duties entailed? 
2.  What is a Forward Observation Officer?  What other types of officer positions are open to Artillery Officers?
3.  I may want to Component Transfer later.  How long does it take to process into the Regular Forces and will I take Basic Training again?

I am very much looking forward to joining.

Thank you for any and all responses.
Title: Re: New Reserve Artillery Officer Questions
Post by: mariomike on January 14, 2015, 10:47:37
I live in Guelph Ontario and am a new applicant to the Reserves as Artillery Officer.  I am just waiting for a call to book interview and medical, and had a couple questions.

1.  Any inside perspective on the duties entailed? 
2.  What is a Forward Observation Officer?  What other types of officer positions are open to Artillery Officers?
3.  I may want to Component Transfer later.  How long does it take to process into the Regular Forces and will I take Basic Training again?

Thank you for any and all responses.

Reserve Artillery Officer Training 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=105488.0

reserve artillery officer 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=36441.0

Artillery Officer
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+NPF&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gfe_rd=cr&ei=0n22VK2iNcqy8wfEg4LIDg&gws_rd=ssl#rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&q=site:army.ca++++%22artillery+officer%22

Artillery Officer and Forward Observation.
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=103890.0

Forward observer role in the artillery
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=116310.0

Component Transfers (Reserve to Regular): Q&A
http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,12797.0/nowap.html

Lots more in there, but this is a start.

Title: Re: New Reserve Artillery Officer Questions
Post by: jeffb on January 14, 2015, 10:48:02
These questions have all been answered in detail in the artillery sub forum. About 3 threads down is one called "primary reserve officer career progression". Give that sub-forum a read and feel free to ask any additional questions in there or PM me.

http://army.ca/forums/index.php/board,2.0.html (http://army.ca/forums/index.php/board,2.0.html)

Best of luck,

Jeff
Title: Re: New Reserve Artillery Officer Questions
Post by: patcosgro on January 14, 2015, 15:07:15
Thank you mariomike and jeffb.  I found these links very informative.  I will continue to read through these and similar links to get a better picture of whats to come.  Once I start my training with my Reserve unit I will do my job and do it well.

Title: Re: New Reserve Artillery Officer Questions
Post by: 3rd Horseman on January 29, 2015, 10:06:56
Ah brings back fond memories of Guelph. You have all the info the boys above have directed you to so thats all good. I will give you a personal endorsement. 11FD Regt is a good Regt I enjoyed my 3 years there. The guns will let you do more things in a Army with your military future if you want. It allows you to be in other combat arms worlds and work there with more options to do more things even lets you be part of Navy and Air. On the negative side.....guns wont care about you once you leave the force, we have no close regimental family like the tanks and infantry. I joined the Guns and loved every min of it and had a very exciting and eventful military life all over the world doing things Infantry just dream of.
Join! dont look back.
  And Guelph is great town.....Im from Georgetown now Im way East living the dream on the coast.

Rags
3rd Horseman
   
Title: Re: Armoured / Artillery Officers
Post by: Wizmillion on March 05, 2016, 15:07:09
Hello CSouth,

I had done the following in preparation for my interview -

1. Info on the Internet - I went over all the material that was posted for the trades of my choice on the following websites -
a. www.forces.ca
b. www.forces.gc.ca
c. http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land-terre/home-accueil-eng.asp
d. http://www.goarmy.com/
e. http://www.army.mod.uk/join/join.aspx
f. http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFulltext/RTO/MP/RTO-MP-055///MP-055-30.pdf
g. http://www.armee.forces.gc.ca/34gbc/entrevueen.pdf
h. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery
i. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Artillery
j. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Care_Administration

2. Speaking with people in the trade -

For this I went to some of the local militia units. I told them that I was a Regular Force DEO applicant, however I'd like to know more about their job not just to prepare for the interview but to increase my knowledge base. I spoke with members of my family (who are ex and current officers in a foreign army). One of my trade choices was HCA. For this I went and met the administrator of a civilian hospital.

3. Books -

One of the books I invested in was "The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Artillery" by Ian V. Hogg. Before the interview, I had read this book twice from cover to cover.

4. Mock interviews -

I did numerous mock interviews with just myself and my wife. This helped me a lot on the actual day.

5. Knowing the trade, organisation and yourself -

This goes for any kind of organisation. The interviewer(s) will have only a few hours of time in which to interview you. Unlike your family or teachers, they only know you through the paper work that is in front of them - Reliability Screening results, forms submitted during application, degrees, CFAT and medical results, etc. The MCCs give you every opportunity to prove to them that you will be an ideal candidate. It is imperative that you know very, very well the trades of your choice, the CF in general and yourself.

6. Reference/ Commendation letters -

For the interview, I had taken along a folder in which I had kept my degrees, reference letters and commendation letters. (I had not been told to do so). For most of the questions that I was asked, I had a official letter to back the example that I was citing. The interviewers were very impressed with this. They made copies of all my commendation letters and placed them in my file.

7. Dress and deportment -

I had worn a suit for my interview. At the very least one must wear dress clothes with proper lace-up shoes and a tie.

Lastly, I am not a recruiter or a member of the CF. I am just an applicant. The above mentioned pointers stood me well, that is why I am sharing them.

All the best,

AGB.

Thank you for posting this, I had a similar question and I'm finding these resources very useful.
Title: Artillery
Post by: seanm on July 26, 2016, 20:59:13
I'm am currently doing rotp for eme but want to switch to a combat role. What are the main cons of artillery compared to other trades. To me it looks very rewarding and I can't see any cons other then your ears. It would be as an officer.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Bird_Gunner45 on July 26, 2016, 21:09:46
I'm am currently doing rotp for eme but want to switch to a combat role. What are the main cons of artillery compared to other trades. To me it looks very rewarding and I can't see any cons other then your ears. It would be as an officer.

Instead of asking for the cons you should ask.for the pros.... you want a trade you love not one you don't dislike as much as other ones.

That said, the arty offers a wide range of technical and tactical opportunities. You can be field artillery and be on a gun line,  be a FOO/FAC, and be up front with the infantry. You can also go STA (surveillance and target acquisiton) and work with UAVS,  radars, or acoustic sound ranging kit. Finally, you could be AD (yes, it's still a stream) and work with radars and the airspace coordination centre (ASCC) . As arty , you can go to Shilo, Pet, Val Cartier,  or Gagetown. Arty offers, to me, the widest variety of jobs and experiences in the combat arms.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: seanm on July 26, 2016, 22:54:58
I have looked at the pros And haven't been able to find a con in my opinion. Is it true being on the gun line will cause you to lose hearing or do you wear ear pro?
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: Bird_Gunner45 on July 26, 2016, 23:00:25
I have looked at the pros And haven't been able to find a con in my opinion. Is it true being on the gun line will cause you to lose hearing or do you wear ear pro?

It can over time, but if you're an officer than you will spend most of your time in a CP and likely only a year or two on a gun line (in your junior years at least). As a FOO or BC you'll spend your time with the combat team and battle group (if you go into the field arty) so you'll travel in a LAV or dismounted. If you're STA or AD your exposure to a gunline will be very limited.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Dimsum on July 27, 2016, 05:23:24
can also go STA (surveillance and target acquisiton) and work with UAVS,  radars, or acoustic sound ranging kit.

While correct, I'll add that the Arty (and the Army in general) work with small UAVs (generally smaller than a Cessna 172, for example).  The larger ones (Predator/Reaper/Global Hawk), if we get them again, are likely to be flown by the Air Force.
Title: Artillery officer vs. Artillery soldier
Post by: Just_A_Guy on November 08, 2017, 22:31:07
what is the difference between the two? And what exactly does an artillery officer do? where does the officer serve, in a headquarters, or on the field?
thank-you for listening
Title: Re: Artillery officer vs. Artillery soldier
Post by: mariomike on November 08, 2017, 23:05:31
what is the difference between the two?

This thread explains Artillery Officer.

For Artillery Soldier
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&ei=ccUDWt2ZM-SKjwTw-I-IBg&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+artillery+&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+artillery+&gs_l=psy-ab.3...19276.21393.0.24047.7.7.0.0.0.0.94.488.7.7.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.hMD6-4Y0FBQ
Title: Artillery Officer
Post by: Just_A_Guy on November 28, 2017, 22:26:37
do artillery officers (NOT including FSO's) stay with the big guns? ie. with the srtillery soldiers calling fire ON THE FIELD or stay inside with the computers? ???
Title: Re: Artillery Officer
Post by: mariomike on November 28, 2017, 22:39:56
do artillery officers (NOT including FSO's) stay with the big guns?

If by FSO you mean Fire Support Officer, the Canadian term is Forward Observation Officer (FOO). Artillery officers in the FOO position or role do their job with forward units. Search the forums, their role and responsibilities have been discussed.

Google - site:army.ca FOO (https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+FOO&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+FOO&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.7851j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

Including this thread from yesterday: https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,116310.0.html
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: Marchog on April 08, 2019, 18:38:52
A bit of a thread necro, but would anyone know what the typical dates are for artillery officer phase III training in the reserves? I'm hearing early May to late July. Would anyone be able to confirm this?
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: Petard on April 09, 2019, 11:35:31
I'm assuming you're not talking about BMOQ, but just the Artillery officer training portion. It's now called DP 1.1, and attended by both regular force and primary reserve officer candidates. To account for the typical end of university final semesters, the general timeline is late May to July. There have been courses run during other time periods, fall and winter serials are unusual but have happened in the past

As you'll hear often on these boards, be sure you get current info from your unit on actual availability of a course and confirmation of course loading
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: Marchog on April 09, 2019, 18:58:41
Right, thank you for the response. I'll figure it out from the regiment's ops (I assume that's who knows). The reason I'm only talking about Phase III (or whatever it's called now) is that I'm one of the dolts who figured he'd try to VOT/CFR while working post-university, so timing is the key factor.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: JwtNB on August 31, 2020, 16:17:15
Hey, just wondering if anyone has some pro formas that came in handy during their phase training they’d like to share.

Thanks
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: winds_13 on September 01, 2020, 01:06:24
JwtNB, I recommend printing your Recce Proformas (or Fire Plan Proforma, if on the FOO course) on "rite in the rain" (water proof) paper... worth every penny. Also, use a 0.9mm mechanical pencil, if not already doing so. I've never found need for any proformas or aide memoires outside of the standard ones.
Title: Re: Artillery Officer Merged Thread
Post by: jimm on September 14, 2020, 18:10:26
Hi, can someone please tell me how long DP 1.1 is? At the conclusion of the course, would an artillery officer be considered fully qualified? Thanks!