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The Recruiting Office => Physical Training & Standards => Topic started by: Crisco on June 19, 2007, 10:07:12

Title: Running
Post by: Crisco on June 19, 2007, 10:07:12
I've been focusing alot on my running doing moderate paced long distance runs on a treadmill at 1.0 incline and anywhere from 7.5-7 km/ph speed. I'm able to do this for about 5 miles, around 40-45 mins. Do you guys feel this is up to par? My reason for asking this is because I heard the ruck march test can be up to 8 miles. And also my other question is, how long is the average ruck march during basic, I also want to start running with a weighted back pack to prepare for that too. Any insight would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Crisco on June 19, 2007, 10:26:22
Will do :D Also do you feel ruch marching would be any way beneficial on a treadmill at 1 incline or should I measure out 3ks away from my home and do there and back outside?
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Smode on June 19, 2007, 15:43:26
   I never did this yet but I'm expecting to do it this summer. These are the tips I receaved from army friends of mine.

1. Jog 3-4 times a week, make sure you can go long distances at a good pace. Running fast and quick wont do you any good. You have to moderate your time

2. Do squats wearing a bag on your back. WHen you first start doing these the load in the bag must be light, as you progress and get bettr add more weight.

3. Make sure you have a good posture. I know this sounds funny but I was told it really helps. If you are standing straight and walking correctly then you will have the ability to do more.

4. Make sure you have the proper insoles in your boots. If you need custom orthotics (like I do) then wear them. If not get a nice Gel Pad for your boot. It helps a lot

I hope these tips helped.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Crisco on June 23, 2007, 16:10:56
Any info is helpful info :D my thankyou is really belated because I went away for a few days so here it is, tyvm :)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Johnnyfive on August 20, 2007, 02:14:04
My BMQ is coming up real soon and I started training for it a little late. For 2 weeks now I've been running 3 to 4 days a week outside and with some hills.  I can only do a little over 3k but I'm improving.  I smoke but I'm past the point of running out of breath and now it's just muscle fatigue holding me back (also should get better shoes, running + skate shoes = sore ankles).  I'm going infantry so know my fitness level should be above par.  How concerned should I be?
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Johnnyfive on August 20, 2007, 14:38:52
3k is my limit for constant running after a short walk (5min) I can continue.  I guess what I'm asking is if the 5ks are constant or not?
anyways no matter what I'm going to keep pushing myself harder I'm never been the type of guy to be happy with just doing the minimum.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Willy on August 20, 2007, 14:47:59
How concerned should I be?

You should be extremely concerned.

I guess what I'm asking is if the 5ks are constant or not?

Of course they are, a 5K run is nothing, especially for infantry units.  3K is not going to cut it at all.

also should get better shoes, running + skate shoes = sore ankles

Yeah, no doubt.  Sounds to me like you need to take this a lot more seriously.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Munxcub on August 20, 2007, 14:56:02
If you can run 3km you can run 5km, and if you can run 5 you can run 10... it's just a matter of how far you go before you give up. If you don't let yourself quit you'd be surprised how far you can go.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Bane on August 20, 2007, 15:07:21
            The more fit you are, the easier things will be mentally.  If your PT is weak it will make BMQ/IAP or whatever other course you are on that much more difficult.  3km runs are short, and from the tone of your post I think you know this. But as you say, you are not the type to be satisfied with the minimum and that attitude should help not only pass but in your career later on. As to your question of whether the runs are constant or not; PT is somewhat dependent on the course staff you have, though all courses have certain standards that they must adhere to obviously, not to mention busy schedules to fit in.  But I wouldn't but my money on any breaks during runs, except to to other exercises. I would also imagine the runs would be between 4-8km normally, however, someone whose been on or staffed a BMQ recently will be able to tell you with much more certainty.

...and you should be extremely concerned.
5km in 25min is a good benchmark for starting a BMQ/IAP
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Agent Zero on August 20, 2007, 16:06:30
If you can run 3km you can run 5km, and if you can run 5 you can run 10... it's just a matter of how far you go before you give up. If you don't let yourself quit you'd be surprised how far you can go.

Excellent advice. This is pretty much the key to running. Your distance is determined by your ability to ignore that voice in your head that says: "I'm exhausted. I should stop and rest a little while."
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Johnnyfive on August 20, 2007, 16:34:26
Thanks for the advice! Now I have better idea of what I'm getting myself into.  Pain in my ankles is the reason I stop after about 3k my feet get really swollen, I know I need new shoes but I'm low on funds.  I'm also sure that running with other people helps to keep you going. I'm currently doing 3k in about 15min I also do about 200 push ups in sets of 30 throughout the day.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Rick Ruter on August 20, 2007, 18:22:08
... I'm currently doing 3k in about 15min I also do about 200 push ups in sets of 30 throughout the day.

Keep the pace up and 6K in 30 mins is not bad. You probably won't need to get faster for BMQ but you'll need the endurance. I tell people that if they are starting to run, the Running Room has great running clinics and they actually teach a run/walk program. I got my wife and kids to run 31/2mins and walk 30secs and it lowers your heart rate to a level where you can run at a faster rate and go forever. Believe it or not, the running room groups that do this run a 1/2 marathon in under 2 hours.  :salute:
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Johnnyfive on August 20, 2007, 19:05:57
GOOD NEWS!!
I tried some different shoes (still not proper runners though) and just did 7km! I couldn't believe how much less the pain was, I actually got to run out of breath this time. I Regretted stopping because after I did I felt like I could've gone further.  Still, this is a new record for me. After I quit smoking (next month and for good this time) I don't see any reason why I can't become a good runner and shoot for a marathon one day, but for now just not falling behind at BMQ will do.

If you can run 3km you can run 5km, and if you can run 5 you can run 10... it's just a matter of how far you go before you give up. If you don't let yourself quit you'd be surprised how far you can go.
That was inspirational. Thank you.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Stuart81 on August 20, 2007, 19:34:51
If you can run 3km you can run 5km, and if you can run 5 you can run 10... it's just a matter of how far you go before you give up. If you don't let yourself quit you'd be surprised how far you can go.
  There's a point where i just start pukeing though  :(
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Munxcub on August 20, 2007, 19:46:54
Well of course there's always limits, but it's usually a lot farther away then you think. :) I know when I run I start thinking "I should walk a bit..." and then I take stock of what's going on. "My legs aren't THAT tired... I'm not THAT winded... My feet are fine... Back doesn't hurt... WTF am I walking for?! Get running wimp!"  ;D
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Agent Zero on August 20, 2007, 19:48:30
Well of course there's always limits, but it's usually a lot farther away then you think. :) I know when I run I start thinking "I should walk a bit..." and then I take stock of what's going on. "My legs aren't THAT tired... I'm not THAT winded... My feet are fine... Back doesn't hurt... WTF am I walking for?! Get running wimp!"  ;D

"I'm not about to collapse/have a heart attack JUST yet! Get running wimp!"
Title: Re: Running
Post by: CdnArtyWife on August 20, 2007, 19:49:12
GOOD NEWS!!
I tried some different shoes (still not proper runners though) and just did 7km! I couldn't believe how much less the pain was, I actually got to run out of breath this time. I Regretted stopping because after I did I felt like I could've gone further.  Still, this is a new record for me. After I quit smoking (next month and for good this time) I don't see any reason why I can't become a good runner and shoot for a marathon one day, but for now just not falling behind at BMQ will do.
That was inspirational. Thank you.

Get thee to a Running Room (or equivalent)!! You will be amazed at how much easier it is to run in actual properly fitted running shoes.  They may seem expensive, since you won't be buying running shoes according to flashy colors or styling, you'll be buying them according to fit and stride/gait, but consider it an investment in your health. Running is good, running injury free is ideal.

Keep up the hard work. Before you know it, you'll get caught up in the endorphine rush and be striving for further distances and attempting to call yourself an "endurance runner". It sounds like you may have been bitten by the bug...now "run with it."

Cheers,

CAW
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Johnnyfive on August 20, 2007, 20:03:18
Nice pun. Yeah in a short period I went from hating it to potentially liking it.
As for the running groups I probably should've done that like a month ago because I leave for BMQ in 19 days, it is defiantly crunch time! I'm now running 4 days a week and now shooting for 10k by the end of the week.  I'm so glad to know that the problem was my shoes and not my body.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Scotty Hortonville on August 20, 2007, 20:15:36
            The more fit you are, the easier things will be mentally.  If your PT is weak it will make BMQ/IAP or whatever other course you are on that much more difficult. 


...and you should be extremely concerned.
5km in 25min is a good benchmark for starting a BMQ/IAP

I cannot agree with this more. Your whole day is hooped if a 5km run as the sun coming up destroys you. Whether officer or soldier you gotta be able to think on your feet, and think beyond - "I....can't....breathe...ug....dying."
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Johnnyfive on August 20, 2007, 21:41:12
I cannot agree with this more. Your whole day is hooped if a 5km run as the sun coming up destroys you. Whether officer or solier you gotta be able to think on your feet, and think beyond - "I....can't....breathe...ug....dying."

I don't think this will be a problem for me.  Like I said my issues with running stemmed from lack of proper footwear not loss of breath and I still remain fairly active though out the rest of the day, I still haven't gone for a run at 0500 though.    Now that I've changed my shoes, 5k is not a big deal, hopefully by the time I leave 10k wont be a big deal either.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Agent Zero on August 20, 2007, 22:42:55
I don't think this will be a problem for me.  Like I said my issues with running stemmed from lack of proper footwear not loss of breath and I still remain fairly active though out the rest of the day, I still haven't gone for a run at 0500 though.    Now that I've changed my shoes, 5k is not a big deal, hopefully by the time I leave 10k wont be a big deal either.

Maybe your injury healed? Either that, or the shoes you had before were absolutely awful, or the new ones you bought are some super shoes.

Regardless, congrats on the improvement. Keep it up buddy.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Johnnyfive on August 21, 2007, 01:47:58
yeah the shoes where bad, I just didn't think they where THAT bad.  Before my ankles and calves where super hurting and my feet where swelling big time after only about 2k, but my last run was much much less painful right through to the end.  %200 improvement  ;D

Thanks for the support!
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Agent Zero on August 21, 2007, 11:12:40
Excellent! Glad to hear.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Crisco on August 21, 2007, 12:49:41
Thanks again all for all the helpful info and what not. I missed summer BMQ due to an error in my application that took more than a year to correct ><. But they have kept in touch throughout all of summer notifying me whats goin on and I will be doing Weekend BMQ. From what I hear, it's not AS strenuous as full time BMQ unless you don't keep in shape throughout the weeks. I think weekend will be much better for me as I it will give me more and more time to elaborate on my current fitness :D. Thanks again all :D. As for my runnings its getting much better, I hit 8ks without stopping running a public regulation track :D.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: DaveTee on August 21, 2007, 12:54:14
Sorry to derail this, but just a quick question. I just applied to the CF for pilot in July, and haven't heard anything yet. I'm just wondering how long do I have to get up to shape before the testing starts? I have been running 3 times a week for 2 weeks now and am improving slowly (from abysmal to less abysmal). I can do push ups and sit ups but plan to work on them full out once school starts in a few weeks (nice free gym). I'm mostly scared out of my wits for running, and would welcome some advice regarding timelines and testing. I did some searches here and got a few results but none (that I could find) confirmed 100%. Some said the only testing was at BMQ, some said it was done at the CFRC, some it's a beep test, some it's a step test?

Any advice would be welcomed, and yes, if no one knows, I will call the CFRC. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Rick Ruter on August 21, 2007, 12:57:14
yeah the shoes where bad, I just didn't think they where THAT bad.  Before my ankles and calves where super hurting and my feet where swelling big time after only about 2k, but my last run was much much less painful right through to the end.  %200 improvement  ;D

Thanks for the support!

Johnny5, regardless of the shoe though if you change your running environment e.g. flat to hills you will likely experience soreness in your ankles and legs. That's why you should vary where you run so you get used to all types of terrain. Stay away from concrete road if you want to keep your original knees. Running on the grass boulevard (avoiding dog doodoo) is probably the best place to save your knees.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Rick Ruter on August 21, 2007, 13:07:00
Sorry to derail this, but just a quick question. I just applied to the CF for pilot in July, and haven't heard anything yet. I'm just wondering how long do I have to get up to shape before the testing starts? I have been running 3 times a week for 2 weeks now and am improving slowly (from abysmal to less abysmal). I can do push ups and sit ups but plan to work on them full out once school starts in a few weeks (nice free gym). I'm mostly scared out of my wits for running, and would welcome some advice regarding timelines and testing. I did some searches here and got a few results but none (that I could find) confirmed 100%. Some said the only testing was at BMQ, some said it was done at the CFRC, some it's a beep test, some it's a step test?

Any advice would be welcomed, and yes, if no one knows, I will call the CFRC. Thanks in advance.

Dave glad to hear you applied and good luck. Timeline wise, you are probably looking at a January IAP if all else goes through in time and you make the fall Officer selection. Running in the winter is awesome but can be dangerous if icy. Get some rubber grips from Running Room or similar store for your shoes. As a Reg Force candidate at CFLRS (St-Jean) you will do the 20m shuttle run the first week of IAP. It's not hard to pass if your cardio is good. We do not test Reg Force applicants at the CFRC anymore. Get your 2.4Km run down to below 10mins and you'll do fine on all morning runs.

Hope you get what you want. Cheers!
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Johnnyfive on August 21, 2007, 16:25:01
I take almost the same route every time.  It has a few uphill sections and is about 2/3 on grass or dirt path.  Maybe I should note that I go up quite a long slope early on in the run.
I'm assuming the runs I do at BMQ will be fairly flat in comparison.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: DaveTee on August 21, 2007, 16:27:19
Rick thanks for the advice. I should have mentionned that I am doing ROTP, most likely at Civie University so most likely summer course then I assume...But it's a huge relief that I have until the summer to get in shape. That means that I can whoop the minimums and not have to worry about fitness. Thanks very much.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Rick Ruter on August 21, 2007, 16:32:44
St-Jean and Farnham are pretty much flat bases so you're good to go. :salute:

ROTP selection is early Feb and yes you would do a summer IAP/BOTP. Be carefull about Civy U, you tend to do a lot of bicep curl with the guys at the local Pub and the training goes out the window unlike RMC where you do PT. Get yourself a membership at the University Gym and that way you have no excuse. Trust me, I've been there. :-[
Title: Re: Running
Post by: mudrecceman on August 21, 2007, 20:15:32
Rick thanks for the advice. I should have mentionned that I am doing ROTP, most likely at Civie University so most likely summer course then I assume...But it's a huge relief that I have until the summer to get in shape. That means that I can whoop the minimums and not have to worry about fitness. Thanks very much.

-1

Not...have to worry about fitness??  In ROTP...to be an Officer in the CF?

 ::)

I would rethink that opinion if I were you...
Title: Re: Running
Post by: DaveTee on August 21, 2007, 22:10:11
Mud Recce Man:
I meant really get into shape so that it's LESS of a worry. I'm well aware of the difficulty and need to be in top physical shape. That's why I'm starting now. Thanks for the encouragement anyways... :P
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Crisco on August 22, 2007, 12:16:30
I already know about the step test but a question about the shuttle.. My friend told me you have to do the beep test untill level 6.6 or something? What speed is that if anyone knows? If not no need to go out of ones way to find out, was just curious if it was strenuous enough to start working on sprinting as apposed to long distance cardio :S.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Rick Ruter on August 22, 2007, 12:50:20
The level to achieve depends on your age group. Put it this way, when you reach level 8, you are running back and forth but you must keep the pace and not get ahead of the beat... or behind. The speed increases every 30secs (.5 level) and you will be in anaerobic mode pretty quickly. :pushup:
Title: Re: Running
Post by: mudrecceman on August 22, 2007, 13:01:49
I already know about the step test but a question about the shuttle.. My friend told me you have to do the beep test untill level 6.6 or something? What speed is that if anyone knows? If not no need to go out of ones way to find out, was just curious if it was strenuous enough to start working on sprinting as apposed to long distance cardio :S.

Info on the standard required is on this thread, as well as what happens during BMQ or IAP/BOTP if you fail the testings.  Hoepfully this answers the question.  You could search under CF EXPRES TEST as well.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,64932.0.html
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Crisco on August 22, 2007, 13:38:14
Thank you very much both of you.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Mustadio on October 30, 2007, 19:17:27
I was wondering if I could get a bit of advice. It looks like I'll be in the January course, if I'm extremely lucky I might still be able to get in the November course (would have been but an unforeseen medical problem has occurred that I need to get a note from my doctor, who is on vacation for another week).

anyways I find that when I run jog my muscles don't really tire out to the point that they make me stop, it's always my shortness of breath that makes me stop. How should I fix this 'problem' I want to run harder/faster because my muscles can take a lot more, but my lungs just can't keep up. I assume I should do slower jogs to build my cardio, but then I feel like I'm not working my muscles. Should I maybe do a lot of slower jogging to work my cardio, then do some sprints to work my muscles? Also what is the ideal speed to improve your cardio, I've heard it's at the speed where you're jogging, but you're still able to talk comfortably. Is this accurate? It seems too slow, doesn't seem to put much strain on the lungs that would help them improve.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

P.S. Currently I can run the 2.4k in about 11 minutes and 30 seconds. Like I said though, after running it, my muscles are fine, but I feel like my lungs are dead.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Munxcub on October 30, 2007, 19:25:05
Well... I can't see running slow and long being much help at training you to run fast and long... Why not try things like several 400m "sprints" with a set amount of rest in between. Just like doing pushups is the best training for being able to do more pushups (same for situps, pullups, etc...) So don't worry about the "target ranges". Just run, run fast, run slow, run long distance, short distance, sprints, intervals, etc...
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Mustadio on October 30, 2007, 20:07:56
Sounds like a good idea, I have been meaning to do more sprint type work, since I have been working more on the slower paced running.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: plattypuss on October 31, 2007, 14:31:06
In addition to interval training as suggested by Munxcub, try Fartlek training which sort of incorporates the same ideas.  On your regular route try throwing in some sprints at irregular intervals along the way, after completing the sprint keep running but slow down into a recovery pace then when you want to do another sprint. I assume you're not a smoker, another option which may help is drop some weight if you are over weight.  You may wanna take a look at some running magazines as well - they are constantly full of running programs designed to improve your run.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: walrath on October 31, 2007, 16:00:56
I have recently just got back into running from a 2 year hiatus to prepare for the PT test. I havent read every post in the thread so I may be repeating some things.

A few pointers I have learned throughout the years .

- first time out from inactivity, 2/3rds walking, 1/3rd running. keep your heart rate down and gradually work your way up to longer periods of sustained running and shorter periods of walking to recover. you'll make quicker progress

- on your days off running, find some stairs, and walk up them as many times as you can. but at a regular pace as to not risk injury.

- in the winter, either get access to a treadmill and run with an incline, find and indoor track, or find a shorter route that you can be sure it's salted and just loop it. nothing worse than wiping out on some ice after running for half an hour.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Rayman on October 31, 2007, 16:09:06
Just my 0.02, I find that speed walking when youre first getting back into it helps too. The preset programs on most tredmills work you up to higher speeds as the workout goes on and that I found allows you to run longer when youre as out of shape as I am.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Munxcub on October 31, 2007, 16:22:14
Treadmills don't offer as much "work" as running on a track or outside. They are better then nothing tho. I think people think too much and make it more complicated then it needs to be. Do what you can, then do more. You should be out of breath, you should be uncomfortable, you should want to quit the whole time (but don't!)... if that's not the case then you aren't pushing hard enough. If you're way out of shape and plain old walking does that, then keep at it. If speed walking will, or light jogging, whatever. Don't be concerned with what others do, if you're pushing your limits then thats great. Push them hard enough and long enough and your limits will expand and you'll run faster and longer.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: walrath on October 31, 2007, 17:28:21
Treadmills definitely arent as much work, that is why you need to compensate by adding incline to the treadmill as well as increasing the distance/speed. there is a formula available to figure this out. if I find it, i'll post it.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: plattypuss on November 01, 2007, 09:10:35
Munx a useful quote to reinforce your comments:

"You’ve got to drive the body to the last inch of energy then go on! You gain nothing by just going up to where your body says you’re tired. The body will build and grow only to fit the demands the mind makes upon the lazy body. If all you do is exercise until the body is tired, the body will get lazy and stop a bit shorter every time. You must go to the point of exhaustion, then go on. That way the body figures out, “We’ve got to build up more strength if that crazy mind is going to drive this hard!” If you always quit when you are merely tired, you will never gain. Once you let the body tell the mind when to quit, you are whipped for sure. You can not gain by listening to the body. We can become much stronger if we drive the body. We use about on-tenth of the available strength of our bodies and less than that of our minds."
-General George Patton
Title: Re: Running
Post by: JBoyd on November 01, 2007, 12:39:24
A truly great peice of knowledge
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Gardiners1 on November 01, 2007, 12:55:07
Yesterday I ran 4k in 21:40 which for my 37 year old body isn't too bad, especially considering the stiff wind I was running into the teeth of most of the way.  When I started running not long ago I was pretty whipped after even 2k and I was much slower so I feel I am making good progress. 

I was really starting to feel the effects of shin splints until I read some info on here about treating and preventing them.  I stretched everything out really well before my run yesterday and altered my style so that I was hitting heel first on each step.  Instead I was running more on the balls of my feet.  I also alternated heat and cold on my shins for awhile after the run.

Lo and behold I am having very little discomfort today which is a good thing especially considering I stretched out the distance compared to what I normally do.  I am pleased but not satisfied with my level of progress.  My next run, which will probably tomorrow, I want to do 5k and try to average about the same time per kilometre. 

Scott
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Munxcub on November 01, 2007, 13:50:42
Good work Gardiners. I mentioned somewhere on here (maybe this thread) that if you can run 2 km you can run 5, and if you can run 5 you can run 10. It comes back to driving the body like Plattypuss said a couple posts back.

I have no doubt that you could keep that pace for 5km.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: standingdown on November 02, 2007, 00:30:29
Yeah...Running is ruining my legs slowly,

So I only run 3 times a week, a 2.4km a 5km and a 10km.

Even limping my 2.4km is faster then the majority, so I think it comes down to like you guys said motivation and driving the body. Some guys could run half assed 2x a day everday and still get beat by a determined individual.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Gardiners1 on November 02, 2007, 00:33:40
Good work Gardiners. I mentioned somewhere on here (maybe this thread) that if you can run 2 km you can run 5, and if you can run 5 you can run 10. It comes back to driving the body like Plattypuss said a couple posts back.

I have no doubt that you could keep that pace for 5km.

Thanks for the encouragement man.  Tomorrow I am going out to do my 5k run.  I think running in the windy conditions the last few times out has been helpful because I have had to work harder to complete my goal.  Adding 1/2 k or 1k each time has been working well so I think I will continue that.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: JBoyd on November 02, 2007, 00:57:29
Good luck on your Phys Test Gardiners1, I have slowly tried to increase my running, after quiting smoking it has risen slowly. most of the time it is boredom that ruins my runs, so i am going to try music and see if that helps keep my mind off of any pain or fatigue. Most of my issue is cardio endurance so im also trying to control my breathing, which is also seeming to help
Title: Re: Running
Post by: plattypuss on November 02, 2007, 09:21:37
Running with music definitely helps with the boredom of running, I believe it also helps me move a little faster. 
When I run I always try and exhale on a certain step ie when my right foot hits the ground every 3 or 4 steps, this allows me (if I start getting cramped up) to change it up and exhale of the left step which usually helps with getting rid of the crampy feeling you sometimes get when running hard. 
There are lots of programs available to get you prepared to run any distance including 5km so if you need help achieving a decent time or just a healthy way of building up to that distance take a look around the internet.

Good luck to you all.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Gardiners1 on November 02, 2007, 10:14:04
Thanks JBoyd.  I always have my IPod Shuffle on for my runs.  It certainly helps, me at least, to have some music playing when I run.  The Shuffle is a great little device for running simply because of how small it is.  The thing is the size of a matchbook and clips nicely to my shorts or shirt.  I put some Social Distortion on there right now and some Dropkick Murphys and i'm good to go. :)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Gardiners1 on November 02, 2007, 16:32:17
So good news and bad news about my run today.  I was going to up the distance from the 4.1k route I had been doing, to a 5 k route.  Only problem is I forgot to run the new route I had planned so I ended up doing my 4.1k route again.  Sigh, brain is getting old.  Now the good news.  I shaved 58 seconds off my time from Wednesday.  21:50 on Wednesday, 20:52 today.  I'm pretty pumped up about it.

Scott.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Rayman on November 03, 2007, 11:07:43
Well good job none the less. I found that my local convenience store is exactly 2.4 kms from the highway thats at the end of our street so now ive got a landmark. On the tredmill comments go figure the one I use the most has the elevation not working. Maybe a Carl Gustav will fix it.   

:rocket:
Title: Re: Running
Post by: TN2IC on November 04, 2007, 18:10:14
Treadmills don't offer as much "work" as running on a track or outside. They are better then nothing tho. I think people think too much and make it more complicated then it needs to be. Do what you can, then do more. You should be out of breath, you should be uncomfortable, you should want to quit the whole time (but don't!)... if that's not the case then you aren't pushing hard enough. If you're way out of shape and plain old walking does that, then keep at it. If speed walking will, or light jogging, whatever. Don't be concerned with what others do, if you're pushing your limits then thats great. Push them hard enough and long enough and your limits will expand and you'll run faster and longer.


I have to say Munxcub is bang on. I have been running outside for the past month or so, compared to the treadmill. And wow, I can see and feel a difference from the two.
Also make sure you get a jogging buddy to keep you going. Even if he/she will run you into the ground. It's a good work out.  ;)

Title: Re: Running
Post by: Gardiners1 on November 09, 2007, 10:28:13
Well, I gave myself four days off from running this week because I was really concerned with the pain in my shins.  So yesterday I gave it a go again and completed a 5.2km route without much trouble. My pace was a little slower than normal because that was the longest distance I have covered but it was still in the acceptable range.  The even better news is that I had no pain in my shins afterwards. I iced them down again just in case but they feel fine.  My PT is next Wednesday and I am pretty confident right now.  Thanks as always for reading.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: TacticalW on December 09, 2007, 06:57:12
I'll just mention my running plan for anyone who's interested. Just keep in mind this is going to require a gym and a treadmill.

If you're just starting from a month+ break or... just starting. Concentrate on speed-walking for the first few weeks with a bit of jogging at the end before starting up my little program. When you initially start, go from a 3.8-5.4 for the first portion, stay on a speed of 5.4 for the core running (5 minutes first) and go from 5.4-6 for the last 3 minutes. Stay on that and from there progress up until you get to 20 minutes on the core portion, 5 minutes for the final portion (which would mean going from 5.4-6.4). The first step is to get your endurance up and that's what the next few weeks is all about. Once you reach that bench-mark though increase the speed of the core/final-push by 0.1 and lower the time in those areas to a point where you're comfortable, work up from there and once you reach the maximum time increase it by 0.1 again. Don't be satisfied until you reach at least 6.4 speed for the Core Running. Remember, 1km=5minutes and taking less time to finish that and over long distances is even better. Don't be satisfied with minimum or average performance, do your damn best to be the best and encourage everyone else to take the same course. Do your best to take daily trips to the gym, try to go consistently - but a break day in-between every 2+ days is fine - especially if you're feeling soreness.

Keep in mind that it's very useful doing muscle-workouts for the legs on the side with running. Do whatever you can for Quadriceps (prevents knee pains too, at least an excercise for this is very recommended), Hamstrings and Calf if you've got the time. Always to stretches before you start anything and again after running. It's fine if you do 1 set of reps for the leg workouts but 2 is recommended with 10-15 reps. If you can't do 10 with a certain weight lower it and if you go above 15 make the weight higher.

start the treadmill
Warm-up: 5 minutes --> going from speed-walking to running (helps prevent cramps and obviously is a warmup)
Core Running: 5-XX minutes --> This is where you maintain the running pace through the core of it - obviously this builds up your endurance
Final Push: 3-6 minutes --> This would be the last portion of the run where you raise the running speed by 0.2 every minute starting at 0 - by having this burst of speed at the end, running will feel easier

Right now as an example - here's my stats at the moment - and FYI the numbers at the right represent the speed level on treadmills.
Warm-up: 5 minutes --> 3.8-6.6 speed
Core Running: 12 minutes --> 6.6 speed
Final Push: 5 minutes --> 6.6-7.6 (increasing by 0.2 per minute starting at 0)
Total Distance: 3.2 miles (5.14 kilometres)
Total Time: 27 minutes

I run daily and have been for a long time getting ready for the recruitment process and BMQ - started long before I sent in the application and I recommend the same for anyone else.

I hope I haven't missed anything or messed something up, pretty late at the moment. This has worked great for me, I used to run outside but bottomline is that I prefer the treadmill so I can gauge the exact distance/speed I'm running and keep everything organized and progress consistent. This is working "great" for me.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: JBoyd on December 09, 2007, 12:51:39
Personally I dont like the treadmill, I find it very useless in regards to actual running. But thats just me.

I have found from personal experience that if you are having trouble in the cardio endurance department, slow down your gait. I went from long stride jogging 1 - 1.2 km and feeling it in my lungs to 2.5 - 3 km by slowing down and doing something similar to a double time march.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Civvymedic on December 09, 2007, 13:04:33
Tactical W,

Good tips.

3.2 miles is the same as 5.14 km. Not 7, Unless I missed something.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: George Wallace on December 09, 2007, 13:36:40
......And I see we are rehashing what has already been posted in so many other threads on Running and Physical Fitness.  Do we really need ten thousand topics on the same thing?  Is your question so unique that you figure it hasn't been asked before?  Does the date of a post, really invalidate it?   ::)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on March 12, 2008, 02:28:59
Jogging is all fine and good but it is not what you should be doing to get in real shape.  The problem with fitness and I have noticed this a lot within the military is people seem to think they are going to get fit just by jogging, doing pushups and situps... what you are doing crisco is fine to begin with but once you reach the 5km mark you will find that you will plateau.  As someone said on here before if you can run 5km ... you can run 10km and so forth .... this is what is known as aerobic fitness... the problem you will encounter is you will never be able to increase speed or your intensity level and this is what real fitness training is all about... The type of training you need to start doing is what we call anerobic fitness.  This type of training is simply forcing your muscles to take in more oxygen so that they can work harder for longer periods of time....

What I suggest is you find yourself a good sprint program, and do interval training and fartlekking... doing this sort of training will allow you to see real results...  Also combine this training with plyometrics, core training and weight training.... hitting the weights is so important.... you will find that you will plateau at around 40 pushups if you hit the weights you will easily add another 20 to 30 pushups to that limit.  I used to be able to do 40 pushups, and that was it i would practice but not get any better, I put 20lbs of bulk on and I can break 70 now and to tell you the truth I didn't do any pushups to increase that.... I did a combination of weight training, and core strengthening to get there and voila if you do that you will be cranking them off in no time and you will be a lot stronger to boot... 

I am lucky in the fact that I am a varsity rugby player and our team is provided access to a fulltime kinesiologist who works with us and provides us with individual training programs.  If there is one thing he taught me about fitness its all about working smarter not harder which is something I think they forget sometimes when they do physical fitness in the military.  I have noticed a trend especially when observing lets say a PAT platoon... or whatever they call it now that the fitness instructors tend to focus a lot on simply trying to get these people to pass the Expres test.... while thats fine and dandy I think if they would like to see some real improvement in these individuals they need to get them out and show them how to train properly....

Just my two cents....


Just my two cents
Title: Short term running program?
Post by: consumed on March 17, 2008, 02:32:47
I need some advice on running and a program to work with (Short term).  I started running about a month ago when I first applied, right now I can run for about 15 minutes although I have not yet tested my time/length.  To build up my speed as I currently run at a slow-medium jog speed, what should I be looking to do?  (I run on a indoor track) My program right now is: Power walk for 15minutes to warm-up, then jog (slow-med speed) for 10-15minutes, power walk for 5, then jog for another 10-15min, then walk again for another 10 minutes.  I know I need to get my speed up, I'm just not sure which is the best route as numerous friends tell me different things.  I'm running everyday as well.

Cheers
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Aden_Gatling on March 17, 2008, 12:48:21
A good place to start: http://runnersworld.com/subtopic/0,7123,s6-380-381-386-0,00.html

P.S> Running every day is generally not a good way to start.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: RandomAVS on March 17, 2008, 13:22:40
Nope, running every day can do more harm than good. Alternate it with a long walk or a hike in the woods, does more good than harm that way.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Lune on March 18, 2008, 15:22:53
My current program, after about a two-year hiatus from any intense physical activity is as follows:

5KM RUN @ 70-80% max heartrate (aerobic capacity). 4 minute warmup/cooldown.
2.4KM RUN @ 80-90% max heartrate (anaerobic capacity). 5 minute warmup/cooldown.

Sunday: Rest day
Monday: 5km @ 70-80%
Tuesday: 5km @ 70-80%
Wednesday: 2.4km @ 80-90%
Thursday: 5km @ 70-80%
Friday: 5km @ 70-80%
Saturday: 2.4km @ 80-90%

I just started this program so I'll see how it works. Once I get a superior time for the 2.4km I'll replace one of the 5km's with an interval run, and one with a negative split run, and possibly increase the distances.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: the_midge on March 21, 2008, 04:02:21
Lune - for your 2.4k run, are you sprinting flat out, or are you working in intervals? If you're able to maintain pace for more than a couple of minutes at a time, you're more than likely not working your anaerobic capacity.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Steel Horse on May 01, 2008, 14:42:41
Correct me if  I am wrong, but for a true anaerobic workout you would want to do something like:

warm-up
1 km run/jog
0.5 km print with everything you've got

I used to do something like this before I got hurt.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Fireball on May 01, 2008, 15:30:37
Hi,

When I was in the reserves, the summer PT during training mainly consisted of running (and 100s of pushups through out the day).  I ran "ok" but really had problems when I was running in formation behind several people, and that is what tired me out quickly more than anything else. I suspect it's because I have longer than average legs and my stride was longer than others.  What happens is when someone is out of lockstep with the group it throws the rythm off and then everyone starts going accordian-style which varys the pace trying to catch-up and slowing down, while making sure no one is stepped on.   When we formed up and I was at the front of the squad then I had no problems

My suggestion is to run with a partner if you can - or maybe a running group of sorts.  The group rythm is probably more important during long distance runs.  What killed me during the runs was the back pair sprinting to the front of the group and repeating throughout the 5-10ks.

J
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacksparrow on July 16, 2008, 12:34:31
I plant to do 11 minutes or less for my 2.4km run this coming weekend, after only managing 22 minutes for 2.67km this past weekend. This was partly my fault, as I didn't do any warm-ups, and just started sprinting from my front door.

For the experts on here....how would you advice me to take on the 2.4km run for someone my age group, 35 and over? Shoould I Start out jogging up to a point and then sprint?

Cheers
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Bplante on July 16, 2008, 14:52:31
The best way to manage a run from 1k to a marathon, is to be able to run the second half faster than the first one. If you're running for long time you should know what's your average pace. Based on that numer run the first part at this pace and the second a bit faster.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacksparrow on July 20, 2008, 11:11:56
So I went out this morning, and did the 2.4km in 16:26mins, this is an improvement on my 22:01mins from last week. I am not happy with this time obviously, and want to bring it down to within the allowed time for people my age group, 35 and over.

This time around, I didn't start of sprinting, I warmed up and then started slow, before increasing my pace. The path behind my house am running on, is a long path with fine gravel. I know I can do the time expected, but running alone doesn't help when you have no one to push you.

I have 3 full marathons under my belt ( London, LA and Stockholm ).All the people here that have done the 2.4km under 11mins, was this on a threadmill or on the road? My running shoes were chosen to fit my leg posture at the running room, and they are the new balance 858 activeR.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Bplante on July 20, 2008, 11:33:04
Training for marathon and training for shorter distance isn't the same thing at all ! As you know for marathon you have to do a lot of endurance doing long and slow run. For shorter dfistance, you have to work on interval and sprint. You body has to learn to run fast !
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Strike on July 20, 2008, 11:46:45
JS,

You'll find that the 858 is a bot lighter than its previous models (like the 857).  I am currently training for a half (already have a few half and full under my belt).  During the week I will run 6-8 km and tend to really put it all out there for the 6 km runs.  Don't run your shorter runs the same pace you do for the long runs.  It's only 2.4 km.  Get out there and try to go a little faster than is comfortable and don't let your mind wander.  Really, for a distance like that for someone who can put otu longer distances, it really is mind over matter.  If you start thinking it's hurting, tell yourself it's only about 15 minutes.  Compared to the 3+ hrs it takes for the full marathon (5+ in my case  ;D) it really makes it that much easier!
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacksparrow on July 20, 2008, 13:21:54
Thanks fellas! I know I can do this, and in my hay days, I could have blasted thru' 2.4km in 9 mins or less. My last full 26.2 miles marathon in LA, was 8 years ago. I am now 35 and been married for 5yrs. See what marriage does to ya  ;D

Running alone doesn't help either, I know if I was in a group, I'll be pushing to finish top as long as there is a good pace.

So what happens at St jean if God forbids one doesn't manage to come in under the time specified? I just seem to have too much on my plate right now, I am learning to swim 3 days a week and trying to squeeze in running every other day. Also am on the road 4hrs a day driving to and from work.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacksparrow on July 23, 2008, 10:32:48
Do any of you use the "roll on" stuff for muscle and cramp pains? Just want to know if they work and which one to get
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacksparrow on July 27, 2008, 12:21:38
JS,

You'll find that the 858 is a bot lighter than its previous models (like the 857).  I am currently training for a half (already have a few half and full under my belt).  During the week I will run 6-8 km and tend to really put it all out there for the 6 km runs.  Don't run your shorter runs the same pace you do for the long runs.  It's only 2.4 km.  Get out there and try to go a little faster than is comfortable and don't let your mind wander.  Really, for a distance like that for someone who can put otu longer distances, it really is mind over matter.  If you start thinking it's hurting, tell yourself it's only about 15 minutes.  Compared to the 3+ hrs it takes for the full marathon (5+ in my case  ;D) it really makes it that much easier!

Thanks for this mate! I did everything you suggested and  I went back to my old adidas running shoes, as supposed to the new "new balance 858 acteva ) I got.

I found that the new balance were slightly heavy on my feet cos they were size 13 ( my running shoe size ) from that manufacturer, bu the adidas looked slightly smaller and not as heavy.

I breathe in thru the nose and mouth and out thru the mouth every 2 steps. I had no cramps and I did 5k this morning with a sprint at the end in 32mins.

As suggested, am going to keep a steady pace and increase my distance 4 days a week.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: punkd on July 27, 2008, 13:25:27
Thanks fellas! I know I can do this, and in my hay days, I could have blasted thru' 2.4km in 9 mins or less. My last full 26.2 miles marathon in LA, was 8 years ago. I am now 35 and been married for 5yrs. See what marriage does to ya  ;D

Running alone doesn't help either, I know if I was in a group, I'll be pushing to finish top as long as there is a good pace.

So what happens at St jean if God forbids one doesn't manage to come in under the time specified? I just seem to have too much on my plate right now, I am learning to swim 3 days a week and trying to squeeze in running every other day. Also am on the road 4hrs a day driving to and from work.

In St Jean they will test you with a 20 meter shuttle run, not a 2.4k.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: newmet on July 27, 2008, 23:52:31
Thanks fellas! I know I can do this, and in my hay days, I could have blasted thru' 2.4km in 9 mins or less. My last full 26.2 miles marathon in LA, was 8 years ago. I am now 35 and been married for 5yrs. See what marriage does to ya  ;D

Running alone doesn't help either, I know if I was in a group, I'll be pushing to finish top as long as there is a good pace.

So what happens at St jean if God forbids one doesn't manage to come in under the time specified? I just seem to have too much on my plate right now, I am learning to swim 3 days a week and trying to squeeze in running every other day. Also am on the road 4hrs a day driving to and from work.

Hi JS
All I can say is keep running.  When I started running before BMQ I was doing the 2.4 km in over 20 minutes.  By the time I left I was running the 2.4 km in around 15 minutes.  I too led a very busy life before I went but thought I would do alright physically.  Boy, was I wrong.  I ended up on RFT (recruit fitness training), great program, harder than h@%%.  You definately do not want to end up there!  Too many people get broken there.  However, now that I am done BMQ I can run my 2.5 km in uder 12 minutes, not too bad for a 31 yr old, who was out of shape before she went :)  All I can suggest is to find some really good music to run to and try to run a little farther, faster each time.  For instance, if you are outside running, sprint from one telephone pole to the next, slow down to a normal run for 2 or 3 poles and keep sprinting more, taking less breaks between the sprints as you can.  This helped me and my instructor recommended that to me.  I have been and always will be a slow long distance runner, I am still trying to speed up; however, due to stress fractures on my left foot, gotten while on RFT, I am slowly getting myself fixed too, along with trying to run faster.   
Ahhh, running for me can take place outside or in on the track, I hate running on treadmills personnally.  My pace is mostly the same in either place; however, inside is nice as there are no hills :)   There are no hills around the Mega.
Let's see, if you don't come under the time alotted for the Express Test, the result is RFT (see comment above,you do NOT want to end up there!, besides being very physically demanding and placing you in a position to get injured, you are in St. Jean for longer than you should be).  If you make the Express Test and are slow on the runs, be prepared to see the not so smiling faces of your platoon swinging back to pick you up.  If you're last in the platoon be prepared to get yelled at, alot!  I was never that far back, mind you some days I could till hear the instructor yelling the the people who were. 
As for pain rub ons, I recommend Tiger Balm, great for the pain and sends instructors away quickly due to the smell :)
Let's see, final note, you say you are busy busy right now, I can understand that, here is my little bit of information for you to consider... if you fail the express test you could end up on RFT or released.  If you fail the swim test you end up taking make up classes for 8 weeks, then after that you retest and if you pass, great, if you fail it is a note on your file stating that you failed the test and need to take more classes.  Notice the difference between consequences?  If you're worried about any part of your physical level I would focus on that.
So all I can say in closing, I know, long post :)  Good luck and keep up the hard work, you will definately see an improvement on your running time as you continue to push yourself and soon enough you will be running with the pack.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacksparrow on July 28, 2008, 09:35:48
Wow....Newmet, you gave a good insight into what to expect at st jean and I like the picture you painted of the test, it really put things into perspective. One thing am still not clear on though, if we are not going to be tested on the 2.4km run, why is it everywhere that you have to finish in a certain time according to your age?

Someone else mentioned the  20m shuttle run above, what does that entail and how is it tested, individually or as a group? Am confused

Cheers

PS: by the look of things right now, I think am going to be able to do the 50m, 20m, 3m jump and somersault swim, but my treading is still letting me down.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: newmet on July 28, 2008, 10:48:06
Wow....Newmet, you gave a good insight into what to expect at st jean and I like the picture you painted of the test, it really put things into perspective. One thing am still not clear on though, if we are not going to be tested on the 2.4km run, why is it everywhere that you have to finish in a certain time according to your age?  I don't know the whole answer to this; however, you will be running more than 2.4 kms when you start on platoon, you normally will start at a low amount of kms, with lots of stops for sit ups, push ups, etc and move to a longer run with less stops by the end of BMQ, that's how our instructors did it anyway.  Also, the speed in which you are able to run the 2.4 km is calculated into how far you "should" be able to run in the express test.  For instance, when I got to BMQ, I was running the 2.4 km in around 15 minutes, I was only able to get to 3.5 on the shuttle run.  Now that I can run my 2.4 km in around 11 minutes, I can get over 6 on the shuttle run.  I am not sure where the calculation can be found, I know I saw it on basic though.

Someone else mentioned the  20m shuttle run above, what does that entail and how is it tested, individually or as a group? Am confused
  20m shuttle run, or the beep test.  This test is a 20m run (obviously) each way, you run 20m, wait for the beep and then run back the 20 m again, wait for the beep, etc.  You are going back and forth in a set amount of time.  For the lower levels you run 7-8 stretches of the 20 meters and you have 1 minute for each level.  So, for example on level 2, you have approximately 7.5 seconds to run from one end to the other.  Then you turn around and do it again.  Past level 4 the beeps get faster and there are more stretches to do for each level, sorry I can't remeber it all, I tend to block bad memories :)  On test day, your whole platoon will go to the gym and get ready for the test, your heart rate and blood pressure will be tested and you will be divided into 3-4 groups.  The PSP staff will run with each group for the first stage of the test, make sure you run with them, they have the right pace so you don't burn out too fast.  You complete your express test and then you move onto hand grip, push ups and then sit ups.  PSP are evil in St. Jean, your push ups have to be perfect, thumbs under your shoulder and arms down to 90 degrees to the ground when you go down.  If you fail the run you end up on RFT, or possible released from the military, if you fail 2 strength components of the test, same things.  For instance, if you pass the run but fail on the push ups (a lot of people do) and the hand grip you go to RFT or released.  If; however, you just fail the push ups and pass everything else, you continue on course and everyone is retested in week 10, you don't pass what you failed at week 10, retest on grad week, if you fail, RFT.
Cheers

PS: by the look of things right now, I think am going to be able to do the 50m, 20m, 3m jump and somersault swim, but my treading is still letting me down.  For the swim test, you roll into the pool and tread water for 2 minutes, swim the half length of the pool and pull yourself out onto the bridge, then you jump from the board (sorry I don't know the height, I kept my eyes closed), swim the half length of the pool again and get out.  All done, so practice your treading water.  Keep in mind, you do the test in your combats and you can tie of your pant legs and top to keep air inside to help you float.

Best of luck and feel free to ask me any questions you have, I certainly don't have all the answers but I am willing to share what I know.  Take care.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacksparrow on July 28, 2008, 11:46:06
Thanks for that. I looked up my age group 35-39, and it says I need level 5.5. Am sure if I push myself hard enough, I should be able to make that level, I'll hate to have to go to RFT.

I guess it helps to keep up with the group also eh
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacksparrow on July 28, 2008, 12:47:36
Found this info:

Q: How long is the shuttle run from start to level 6.5?

A: The run is EXACTLY six minutes and 30 seconds. From stage six to six and a half there are only two laps. However, they are the fastest laps!

its something like 52 times back and forth

each stage is 8, 20 meter lengths
8x6 = 48 + 4 =52, 20 m lengths.

1040 m in about 6.5 min

the trick is to not go fast. timing is everything. you do not want to waste energy speeding up and slowing down.

just remember at stage 5.5 you only have 8 lengths to go























Title: Re: Running
Post by: Canuckanese on August 10, 2008, 13:31:07
There are some things I'd like to ask regarding running.

Ok, so I'm going for the Reserves, the GGHG, and I've passed all my testing. For my fitness test, I passed it, and at that time, I was able to run 2.4km in about 15 minutes.

For the summer, I've been running at set times while steadily increasing the amount of time I run weekly, as suggested in the Canadian Forces fitness guide. I assumed that, the longer I can run, the better my endurance will be, meaning that eventually I would be able to run 2.4km in under 12 minutes.

However now I'm starting to doubt this, and am wondering, should I focus on duration of time running? Or running 2.4km as fast as I can?

Another question, should there be a specific time to run each day? I've found that I'm most successful at night, but sometimes my results during day can be atrocious. Considering that most running in BMQ will be conducted during daylight, should I focus on running during the day?

Also, would anybody happen to know when Reserve BMQ (Fall) begins for the GGHG?
Title: Re: Running
Post by: JayJay144 on August 10, 2008, 13:38:54
I'm going through the reg force application process and as I understand it you need 12 minutes and under to pass. I do it in 8 minutes.

Check your daily diet it has a lot to do with how well you run. I've been eating lots of pastas, chicken and steak for my training. High carbs and protein. stay away from the junk food and drink lots of water and lemonade because it has natural electrolytes. Running in the morning and night is the most ideal but if you run during the day (the hot days) your body learns how to hydrate in those circumstances so that is beneficial.

hope this helps.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: punkd on August 10, 2008, 13:39:29
As for running long or short distances, why not do both? I'm not sure how many days you are setting a side for training. But ill guess around 3?

1st training day - do a nice slow run to build up your endurance, maybe say 5k? (you can increase or decrease as you feel necessary to fit your needs/shape)
rest day
2nd training day - try sprints, use telephone poles for example. Sprint between 1 pole to the next, then either walk the next pole, or do a slow jog. then sprint again. repeat as many times as you can.
rest day
3rd training day - do another slow run, say 5k again? but this time compete against your time from your previous 5k run, time is your best competitor!

You should also throw in some pushups/situps/weights etc.. but you asked about running so ill leave all that stuff out.

The main thing is CONSISTENCY, it doesn't matter how you run, as long as get out there and actually do it.

edit (sp)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: standingdown on August 10, 2008, 14:49:09
As for running long or short distances, why not do both? I'm not sure how many days you are setting a side for training. But ill guess around 3?

1st training day - do a nice slow run to build up your endurance, maybe say 5k? (you can increase or decrease as you feel necessary to fit your needs/shape)
rest day
2nd training day - try sprints, use telephone poles for example. Sprint between 1 pole to the next, then either walk the next pole, or do a slow jog. then sprint again. repeat as many times as you can.
rest day
3rd training day - do another slow run, say 5k again? but this time compete against your time from your previous 5k run, time is your best competitor!

You should also throw in some pushups/situps/weights etc.. but you asked about running so ill leave all that stuff out.

The main this is CONSISTENCY, it doesn't matter how you run, as long as get out there any actually do it.

Good advice. I've always found that its important to build a decent distance base before you start trying to hit fast times, as long slow runs seem to be an army favourite.

I try to run one longer run (10km) a week plus one faster 5km and either a 2.4km all out or some type of interval training. To re-iterate, its mostly about effort and consistency, and you will see gains.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Canuckanese on August 11, 2008, 01:11:00
Many thanks for the advice guys, I'll start that routine tomorrow. I've already got a call from the GG's, they asked if I was still interested in enrolling so I assume the swearing in ceremony will come shortly, with BMQ starting not long after that.

Doesn't give me much time to prepare, training the wrong way really screwed me over, but at least because it's the fall BMQ, I'll still have time to train in between the weekends.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jbennie on August 21, 2008, 16:36:52
I am not currently in the army yet but am in the process of joining and have my aptitude test and medical test on Aug.29th.

I was looking through this thread and thought maybe I could help out a bit maybe with some advise.  I am currently a marathon runner and have been doing it for the last 2 years now, and have a little Kinesiology knowledge.  Hill running is a very good way to train since it helps :

    *  develop power and muscle elasticity
    * improves stride frequency and length
    * develops co-ordination, encouraging the proper use of arm action during the driving phase and feet in the support phase
    * develops control and stabilization as well as improved speed (downhill running)
    * promotes strength endurance
    * develops maximum speed and strength (short hills)
    * improves lactate tolerance (mixed hills)

Also I notice that some people have talked about having side stitches and I have a little advise for that.  If it is on your right side (which is most common), slow down for 30 seconds and exhale forcefully each time your left foot hits the ground and the opposite for the left side.  Another option is to dig your fist in under your rib cage and bend over 90 degrees, this helps to stretches out the diaphragm.  Another easy one is to not eat one hour before you run since it could be caused by food in your stomach.

I also noticed that everyone is talking about training and such but no one has mention anything about nutrition.  60-65% or your diet should be complex carbs, 15-20% should be protein. If you are a long distance runner you should take in considerations that you should be eating .5-.75 grams of protein per pound of body weight.  Then 25% of fat from foods such as  nuts, oils, and cold-water fish provide essential fats called omega-3s.

Another important thing to watch is your sodium levels when you run since you sweat it out. Most people can drink a energy drink after and be fine but I have notice a few runners need more then this.  If you find after your run and have a white salty film on your for heard that you might want to talk to your doctor.  Just watch your salt intake and amount of energy drinks you have in a day because you could be doing damage to your liver.

Hope this helps somewhat.


Title: Re: Running
Post by: apache2001 on August 21, 2008, 23:43:29
Jbennie thank you for the information.  It sure helps.  I trained on an uphill/downhill 5km each day for a week before testing myself at PPA in Orillia.  I did well on the 20msr.  We stopped at 6.5 but I did it twice.   ;)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Kr3w on August 25, 2008, 16:56:43
Hey, I just got a question that I'm not really sure of. Most people say that you should workout/run one day on and one off. I do work out and follow that schedule but its the running part that questionable. I run about 11km everyday, and have noticed that every day I'm cutting my running time down. Before I use to run 5km every second day and haven't had any large cut downs, even when I first started to run 5km. So why is it that people say workout one day and do cardio the next. (Other than the fact that it builds muscle faster) So is it better to run every day, or second day. Or is it just based on how your body is built?
Thanks :cdn:
Title: Re: Running
Post by: apache2001 on August 25, 2008, 19:41:17
Hey, I just got a question that I'm not really sure of. Most people say that you should workout/run one day on and one off. I do work out and follow that schedule but its the running part that questionable. I run about 11km everyday, and have noticed that every day I'm cutting my running time down. Before I use to run 5km every second day and haven't had any large cut downs, even when I first started to run 5km. So why is it that people say workout one day and do cardio the next. (Other than the fact that it builds muscle faster) So is it better to run every day, or second day. Or is it just based on how your body is built?
Thanks :cdn:

There are a lot of reasons and answers from prev posts but one is that it gives time for the muscle groups to heal or grow.  ;)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jbennie on August 25, 2008, 19:49:11
Odds are that you are going to get many different response to this, but personally it really depends on how hard I run.    If I am putting in 100% effort then I like to wait a day before I go and run again.  If I am going slower and my time to finish isn't in the mean then I know that I can run the next day but maybe not as far.  You might also want to take into consideration what you do in your daily life like if you walk around allot or any heavy lifting? It is true about what they say that you should let muscles rebuild them selfs.  If you want you can try and look at different exercise that work different parts of the legs like lunges or maybe some yoga (if thats your thing). 
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacob_ns on September 29, 2008, 21:18:11
Here's the running/jogging plan I'm currently on to improve my running abilities. I found it online and it's called "The Couch-to-5K Running Plan (http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml)". It's about 30 minutes three times per week and slowly increases your distance run without overdoing it.

As an example, week one consists of three workouts. You start out with a 5 minute walk to warm up and then you get into the workout. You jog/run for 60 seconds and walk for 90 seconds. You do this for a total of 20 minutes. This would be Mon, Wed and Fri.

Week two would be jogging/running for 90 seconds and walking for 2 minutes for a total of 20 minutes three times per week. As the weeks progress you're increasing your time allowing your body to really get used to the distances.

I'm on week two and I can say without a doubt that this plan is working. My first time out I thought I couldn't finish the 20 minutes, but I pushed myself and did it. My second time I was able to finish the 20 minutes with less effort (it still took a lot of effort) and by day three I was able to run/jog for 60 seconds each time without becoming overly winded.

I'm not in bad shape as I do a lot of work outside (cutting, clearing, blocking firewood etc) but running is something I haven't done for a long time. I really am a "new runner" but i'm already seeing improvements.

Title: Re: Running
Post by: whitey on September 29, 2008, 22:42:15
Hey, I just got a question that I'm not really sure of. Most people say that you should workout/run one day on and one off. I do work out and follow that schedule but its the running part that questionable. I run about 11km everyday, and have noticed that every day I'm cutting my running time down. Before I use to run 5km every second day and haven't had any large cut downs, even when I first started to run 5km. So why is it that people say workout one day and do cardio the next. (Other than the fact that it builds muscle faster) So is it better to run every day, or second day. Or is it just based on how your body is built?
Thanks :cdn:

Cardio every day. Unless your just looking to seriously throw on some muscle and weight. In that case a 10 minute warm up, jumping jacks, skipping, to get your heart rate up before you start lifting. I'm no expert, but my advice is cardio after lifting and a 10 minute warm up and core stretch before you start lifting is key. I work out 7 days a week upper 1 day lower the next. 5k 1 day 10k the next. (lots of swimming inthe summer.) Oh and for your warm up, jumping jacks, skippings, 10 minutes on the elipitcal or treadmill, just get the blood flowing and the heart rate up. Hope this idiot's opinion helps.

Title: Re: Running
Post by: Kr3w on September 30, 2008, 16:26:16
Cardio every day. Unless your just looking to seriously throw on some muscle and weight. In that case a 10 minute warm up, jumping jacks, skipping, to get your heart rate up before you start lifting. I'm no expert, but my advice is cardio after lifting and a 10 minute warm up and core stretch before you start lifting is key. I work out 7 days a week upper 1 day lower the next. 5k 1 day 10k the next. (lots of swimming inthe summer.) Oh and for your warm up, jumping jacks, skippings, 10 minutes on the elipitcal or treadmill, just get the blood flowing and the heart rate up. Hope this idiot's opinion helps.

Yes, I started running at longer distances 12km now and have noticed some improvements. Also put in some sprinting and some weight lifting which really helped. I often go running with a partner now too, some competition goes a long way ;D Kinda chillin on the running know... Sorta killed my knee about a week ago and BMQ is creepin up pretty quick >:(

Thanks fellas, I'll try out the warm up, only did some jumping jacks and push ups before.

Title: Re: Running
Post by: kurolap on October 02, 2008, 18:02:37
If you can run 3km you can run 5km, and if you can run 5 you can run 10... it's just a matter of how far you go before you give up. If you don't let yourself quit you'd be surprised how far you can go.

best advice. i went from 3.5 km- to 5 km- to 6.5 in only 2 week.  6.5 in 29:58
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacob_ns on October 02, 2008, 20:57:51
best advice. i went from 3.5 km- to 5 km- to 6.5 in only 2 week.  6.5 in 29:58

I will disagree with this if you're a new runner. If you go too far, too soon you are likely to end up with an injury that can seriously delay your ability to improve.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Pte_Squire on October 03, 2008, 09:49:29
I've never been a good runner and I leave for BMQ in 2 days. What happens if I can't meet the running requirement? I can pass all the other PT Tests but I still need more work on my running. I've never had the strongest lungs and legs for running. I am trying though.


Title: Re: Running
Post by: jacob_ns on October 03, 2008, 15:12:35
I've never been a good runner and I leave for BMQ in 2 days. What happens if I can't meet the running requirement? I can pass all the other PT Tests but I still need more work on my running. I've never had the strongest lungs and legs for running. I am trying though.

If you cannot complete the physical requirements when you get to St. Jean, you get put into RFT (Recruit Fitness Training). I found the below with the search function.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,64107.0.html

Title: Re: Running
Post by: kurolap on October 05, 2008, 23:20:41
I will disagree with this if you're a new runner. If you go too far, too soon you are likely to end up with an injury that can seriously delay your ability to improve.

mmm you may be right. im just really happy withmy results which i thought would take me much longer to achieve. (just beat my 6.26 km----7.13 :D; dont know the time tho)

Title: Re: Running
Post by: Celticgirl on October 06, 2008, 14:11:06
I will disagree with this if you're a new runner. If you go too far, too soon you are likely to end up with an injury that can seriously delay your ability to improve.

I agree with Jacob on this. I tried to do too much too soon (and too fast) back in February and injured my achilles tendon. I couldn't run for a while, and even walking was painful, so it really put a crimp in things. A messed-up achilles tendon or ankle or knee can really put the brakes on your progress - something you don't want to do if you are leaving for basic soon - so you want to gradually work on improving and exceeding previous goals. Push yourself, but know your body and 'listen' to it.

With that said, I am off to do a 6K run on this gorgeous day. (If my fiance is reading this, I am taking the dog with me, too!)  8)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Highlander60 on October 06, 2008, 14:31:31
I agree with Jacob on this. I tried to do too much too soon (and too fast) back in February and injured my achilles tendon. I couldn't run for a while, and even walking was painful, so it really put a crimp in things. A messed-up achilles tendon or ankle or knee can really put the brakes on your progress - something you don't want to do if you are leaving for basic soon - so you want to gradually work on improving and exceeding previous goals. Push yourself, but know your body and 'listen' to it.

With that said, I am off to do a 6K run on this gorgeous day. (If my fiance is reading this, I am taking the dog with me, too!)  8)

Try to make running an enjoyable experience, take in your environment and appreciate the nature around you, don't focus on timings too much. If it becomes more enjoyable then you will stick with it and do it more often. I love running in the fall with the colours on the trees. I am sure the dog will love the "walk" also. Most importantly, do not ruin any of the exercise benefits by stealing chocolate from the fridge!
Title: Re: Running
Post by: TacticalW on October 08, 2008, 10:21:58
I agree with Jacob on this. I tried to do too much too soon (and too fast) back in February and injured my achilles tendon. I couldn't run for a while, and even walking was painful, so it really put a crimp in things. A messed-up achilles tendon or ankle or knee can really put the brakes on your progress - something you don't want to do if you are leaving for basic soon - so you want to gradually work on improving and exceeding previous goals. Push yourself, but know your body and 'listen' to it.

With that said, I am off to do a 6K run on this gorgeous day. (If my fiance is reading this, I am taking the dog with me, too!)  8)

I'd like to add to this, a year ago when I was trying to build up my distance as much as possible I was going from 7km to 12km within a few weeks and the day I went the full distance on the 12km I completely tore up my hamstrings and sure as hell didn't make a time that was better than 6 minutes a kilometre at any moment when I did so. I couldn't bend my legs even close to straight for a week and it took another few after that for it to finally actually be able to go straight with "very" much pain. Running a month after that was very painful and I obviously lost pretty much all of the progress I had and it only fully healed after a few more months after I started running (and I was told to wait quite a bit longer than that to start again...). I pushed myself every day and followed that philosophy and all that got me was 2 useless legs and all of my effort being wasted as well as me starting again from a lower point than I originally started progressing from.

I don't recommend following that advice at all and yes, you've got to listen to your body. If you're having sharp pains anywhere stop progressing your distance and speed, make sure you stretch that area often before/after the run and if it's serious enough have a break for a few days and maybe decrease the speed/distance slightly.

Anyways, just as an update from my previous post a long time ago, running on the treadmill doesn't really compare much to running outside. If your BMQ date is coming up and you're using a treadmill for running, stop and start running outside is my advice as some people have said already.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Cpl Rousseau on October 13, 2008, 19:48:10
Hi, I'm 17 and I'm actually waiting for news coming from Ottawa about my file. I apply for a Artillery Officer job.

I would like to know if I'm on the right way to perform well while my BMQ.

I didn't run since approximately a year when, 2 weeks ago, I put on my shoes and run about 8km in 30 minutes. I'm running 3 to 4 times per week since.

I also work all principals muscles during the week. Shoulders, Biceps, Triceps, Pectorals, Back, Legs. A muscles per day.

I'm always finishing training with 3 round of 50 push-ups (150 push-ups) and 3 rounds of 50 sit-ups (150 sit-ups).

That's all about my training,

What do you think about it ?

(Sorry if there's some mistakes, I speak french all day long but trying to do my best when using english !)


Title: Re: Running
Post by: TacticalW on October 14, 2008, 14:12:09
So let me get this straight, you haven't run in a year and with undeveloped legs and cardio you went 8km in 30 minutes on your first run since then? Anyways, yes that's good enough, just don't forget to include pull-ups and chin-ups to your workouts and you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Cpl Rousseau on October 14, 2008, 15:46:05
Yeah... I'm just trying to find a nice spot to improve my chin-up... It's hard to find when you're not in a gym..

(My father is 40 and run frequenly 20km each 2 days...) I think I just have the incredible chance to perform well on cardio.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: mjc_1812 on October 15, 2008, 11:43:33
Stand alone chin up bars sell for about $30-$40. All you need is a doorframe.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Cpl Rousseau on October 15, 2008, 12:15:21
Thanks, I'm gonna take a look at it.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: [RICE] on October 17, 2008, 20:30:34
Yeah... I'm just trying to find a nice spot to improve my chin-up... It's hard to find when you're not in a gym..

(My father is 40 and run frequenly 20km each 2 days...) I think I just have the incredible chance to perform well on cardio.

Isn't it pull-ups? Not to be a jerk, just making sure you don't do the wrong stuff and then pay for it :)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Cpl Rousseau on October 17, 2008, 21:22:19
In fact, It's both. I need to improve both of them. The necessary equipment is the same.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: army08 on October 25, 2008, 17:23:59
Will do :D Also do you feel ruch marching would be any way beneficial on a treadmill at 1 incline or should I measure out 3ks away from my home and do there and back outside?

http://www.army.dnd.ca/2field_engineers/images/B-GL-382-003-PT-001.pdf
Title: Re: Running
Post by: missmague on January 08, 2009, 22:28:19
For anyone who is just starting running - there is a program called Couch to 5K - I just started today, I will see if it works. The link is below:

http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml

I am going to keep doing my 2.4 run which I run between 15 and 20 minutes depending on how good I am feeling that day. So hope with both it will improve my 2.4 run. I can't run at 5K yet so I am hoping the other program will help with  my endurance.

Cheers
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jp86 on January 08, 2009, 22:47:43
I started the Couch-to-5k program in April.  I found that it was a good way to get started.  Sometimes the progression was too slow, other times too quick - but by the time you run into these problems, you've had enough running time to have a good sense of what you're capable of, so you can personalize the program appropriately.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: missmague on January 10, 2009, 13:30:26
Yah I started on the second week and found it a little too easy - I don't feel like I am pushing myself enough so tomorrow when I go for a run I am going to start at week three and see if that is more of a workout and go from there.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: thehare on June 30, 2010, 14:42:11
Before I begin I would like to note that I do realize that this topic hasn't been used in over a year but I do not feel that I should make a new topic considering the number of topics that involve running.

Well heres my situation, I have applied for the reserves, I have not been accepted to any BMQ as of yet but I am still curious about my progress with my running. My current pace is 4.5 km in 25 min, and my main worry is that if I do get put on course in the near future that I won't be able to do as well as I could have.

Yes I realize that I still have a wait to go before a BMQ opens up thus I will be able to improve my times, but as this stands would this be a satisfactoy enough to do well in BMQ. (Not that I am just aiming for satisfactory but I am just curious).
Title: Re: Running
Post by: kkramar on June 30, 2010, 14:54:43
In my opinion if you can run any faster that 6min / km, that you are running faster than minimum. My fastest 6.5 km run so far is 36 minutes which is about 5:32min/km. So I think you're doing pretty good. Just keep working at it, you'll get faster.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: thehare on June 30, 2010, 14:58:34
Alright thank you for reply.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 30, 2010, 15:39:23
Mix it up. 

See how fast you can run 1 Km.  5KM  8km and say 12km.  The higher you go the more you cut back. So if you're running 100% for a 1 KM run , run at 70% of your "monsters are after me" speed if you're doing 8 or 12 km.

Try running 5Km, 1 KM at a time. After each KM stop and do 15 push ups 15 sit ups 15 squats and chin upsépull ups if you have the option.

Title: Re: Running
Post by: ducky on July 28, 2010, 00:49:02
oh gosh...im worried now  i wanted to do officer training...i didn't think I would have to worry about a lot of physical testing...i better start training more...thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Good2Golf on July 28, 2010, 01:35:02
oh gosh...im worried now  i wanted to do officer training...i didn't think I would have to worry about a lot of physical testing...i better start training more...thanks for the info!

There is no difference in standards between officer and non-commissioned member for any particular gender or age group, both need to be a fit as possible.  While there are minimum acceptable levels, you will find that striving to be physically fit will enhance your mental and emotional resilience as well.  :nod:

Cheers
G2G
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Algae on July 28, 2010, 20:13:04
Well to be fit and to run it's two thing. Like in my case, I start to be in really good shape, but I still have problems with running. I can do 600meter in the pool just under 10 minutes 30 secondes (without much effort) but I still find it really hard to run 2.4km in 12 minutes. Not sure why.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Good2Golf on July 29, 2010, 00:26:17
Well to be fit and to run it's two thing. Like in my case, I start to be in really good shape, but I still have problems with running. I can do 600meter in the pool just under 10 minutes 30 secondes (without much effort) but I still find it really hard to run 2.4km in 12 minutes. Not sure why.

I hear you Algae, it's definitely a personal thing.  I do Tri and rowing...I love biking and have always been good at swimming, but running...uugh, it's not one of my favourite things.  I feel good after a run, but I don't think my body was optimized for the specific mechanics of running.  For me, running gets done, but it takes a lot of mental discipline for me to actually do it as well and as regularly as I should.  I wish it came more naturally to me...

Cheers
G2G
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Algae on July 29, 2010, 00:48:23
like today, I did 100 X 25 meter in the pool, 2,4km run, + gym. I do everything I can to be in shape. But for me it's much easier to do 2500 meter in a pool then to run it... When I run I over heat, in the pool I feel confortable. But yes, my cardio is great, I will just try to push a bit harder on the run for my last month before leaving to St-Jean.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Rider Pride on August 01, 2010, 12:23:15
Algae,
it'll come.
I could run like the wind, but couldn't swim 2 lengths without stopping at each end. Now after working at it over the last year or so, I swim 500m without needing a break. Patience and persistence is the key. The concepts are the same for both: easy breathing, smooth rhythm, and proper body mechanics.

BTW, there is 2 ways to run in the CF: short and fast (section attacks), or long and slow (13 km rucking). Train both ways.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: standingdown on August 01, 2010, 17:46:17
SFB:

Do you use ear plugs? If so, can you suggest a good type? I've had a couple ear infections from swimming in the past despite my best attempts to dry my ears out post-swim.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the slight thread tangent.  ;)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Algae on August 01, 2010, 18:17:36
@Spectrum

I swim often and since many years, and I never did a single infection and I don't use ear plug. But I know that speedo make some, but I never try any.

About BMQ, what are the longuest PT run we will do? And do we run with all our kit in the army boots?
Title: Re: Running
Post by: OkanaganHeat on August 01, 2010, 23:29:23
Not sure what it is like now but suspect it has not changed much since I was in.

Every morning we did a 5km run with our unit and yearly did a 2x10 ( 2 days 10 miles each day with full kit wearing our combat boots). Now there is the 13km ruck march followed by the other battle fitness tests.

Running will be part of your life in the military, especially if you go combat arms.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Algae on August 01, 2010, 23:34:23
Well, I'm going for Log Officer, but that's not a reason to be out of shape. I just want to know what to expect. I train since 3 months now, I'm in a much better shape now, but still, running it's not my cup of tea ;) But more I do, easier it gets.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: BulletMagnet on August 01, 2010, 23:35:54
All I think about when it comes to running is no woman will ever comment on the the size of my lungs  ;)

And why would I run into battle the fight will still be there when I walk and I'll be fresh when I get there!  ;D

Title: Re: Running
Post by: GloriaVictis on August 02, 2010, 15:26:00
SFB:

Do you use ear plugs? If so, can you suggest a good type? I've had a couple ear infections from swimming in the past despite my best attempts to dry my ears out post-swim.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the slight thread tangent.  ;)
Hi Spectrum. I have a relative who's a competitive swimmer and she told me to use a hair dryer on low setting to dry out my ears ASAP after getting out of the pool....she swears by it!   :)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: MrBlue on August 02, 2010, 16:53:12
As much running as we do in the military for PT (read: TO MUCH) don't neglect your strength training, which is actually where I see most people fail their fitness test.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: armychick2009 on August 02, 2010, 17:19:41
like today, I did 100 X 25 meter in the pool, 2,4km run, + gym. I do everything I can to be in shape. But for me it's much easier to do 2500 meter in a pool then to run it... When I run I over heat, in the pool I feel confortable. But yes, my cardio is great, I will just try to push a bit harder on the run for my last month before leaving to St-Jean.

Hey Algae, nice to see another long-distance swimmer! I too can swim for pretty much forever at a decent pace and not go out of breath or tire easily. However, running? Feels impossible. I do try to however, implement the same kind of breathing for running that I do for swimming (same rhythm, etc.) and it has helped a bit. I also know that the pool work definitely helps you with running endurance. The next few weeks this is my focus as well!

Title: Re: Running
Post by: owa on August 02, 2010, 17:22:13
You use a different set of muscles and it's harder on your joints when you run.  You guys likely have tons of cardiovascular ability, but it's just a matter of running more often (maybe start at a shorter distance) to get your joints and muscles thinking "running".  Once you get more accustomed to it, your general cardiovascular endurance will take over and you'll see a big change.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: fischer10 on August 02, 2010, 17:40:44
You use a different set of muscles and it's harder on your joints when you run.  You guys likely have tons of cardiovascular ability, but it's just a matter of running more often (maybe start at a shorter distance) to get your joints and muscles thinking "running".  Once you get more accustomed to it, your general cardiovascular endurance will take over and you'll see a big change.

owe has this correct. Swimming/Running/Biking all use the general muscle group, but each require their own specialty muscles. Each build cardiovascular strength, but do not build specific muscles if only one is used. From my understanding anyway, I'm no expert lol.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Good2Golf on August 02, 2010, 18:17:48
As much running as we do in the military for PT (read: TO MUCH) don't neglect your strength training, which is actually where I see most people fail their fitness test.

 ??? 

Really?  How's that?
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Tango18A on August 02, 2010, 18:21:57
So all those people dropping out of the beep test at 0.5 is due to their strength training? ::)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: armychick2009 on August 02, 2010, 19:58:18
I had little choice the last few months BUT to focus on the strength training and I found it has helped my endurance with running and most definitely with the push-ups. I find though when I crap out during runs, it's because of the lungs wanting to explode (implode?!) and not because my legs are tired out. Before I did the strength training, it would have been the legs giving out before the lungs. Pretty much it's only going to be 'cured' by getting off my arse more and running more frequently.

It's to find the balance!
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Tango18A on August 02, 2010, 21:05:40
Getting on a bike and going for broke is a good way to increase lung capacity as well.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: armychick2009 on August 02, 2010, 22:33:01
Thanks Tango! A very good suggestion and the second time I heard this today! My friend is a running coach (in Italy) and that's exactly what she suggested as well! Being so close to BMQ, she's trying to get me to avoid injuring myself the next few weeks and said the bike would be perfect.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: HavokFour on August 02, 2010, 22:39:39
My old rugby coach use to make us "run" in waist deep water (and snow in the winter), I do it every chance I get to this day.

I don't suggest doing it if you've ever had knee problems though.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Tango18A on August 02, 2010, 22:57:07
Thanks Tango! A very good suggestion and the second time I heard this today! My friend is a running coach (in Italy) and that's exactly what she suggested as well! Being so close to BMQ, she's trying to get me to avoid injuring myself the next few weeks and said the bike would be perfect.

No problem, its exactly what I was told to do when I first got in.

My old rugby coach use to make us "run" in waist deep water (and snow in the winter), I do it every chance I get to this day.

I don't suggest doing it if you've ever had knee problems though.

Most of us that have spent quite a bit of time at Combat Arms units have Knee problems. I have problems even walking in snow.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: armychick2009 on August 02, 2010, 22:57:27
My old rugby coach use to make us "run" in waist deep water (and snow in the winter), I do it every chance I get to this day.

She actually suggested that one too!!  Man, you guys are goooooood....
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Tango18A on August 02, 2010, 23:00:03
Personally I would use water. All you need is one patch of crusty snow, and boom hello MIR
Title: Re: Running
Post by: MrBlue on August 03, 2010, 12:04:28
??? 

Really?  How's that?

how's that...umm gee well how's about when ALL the pt you do is running, and you make long distance events mandatory for troops.

When I mentioned people failing pt tests...I was speaking from PERSONAL experience...i.e WHAT I'VE SEEN...and what I HAVE seen is that most people fail at "strength" portion (being hand grip, push-ups, and sit-ups).  Even though to call it a strength portion is a kind of misnomer...it should really be called strength endurance. Most people I see can run 5-10km, but can't do 1 chin-up to save their lives, or struggle to do 10-20 push-ups...and even then the push-ups, generally speaking are done with bad form. (head bobs without body moving, half reps, hip thrusts, etc)

I have only seen ONE person fail the running portion, and that was certainly not at 0.5

I second the water running, huge decrease in stress on your bones and joints.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Good2Golf on August 03, 2010, 12:45:26
Perhaps it's personal experience then.  I've seen significantly more failures on the shuttle run -- not 0.5, but certainly in the 3's and 4's.  While all elements of the CF fitness program are in the end the individual's responsibility, running is something that the CoC has far greater influence over, especially organizing it at the unit level.

Imagine prepping unit personnel for the Xpress test, "All right everyone, today the unit is going to have a wrist-strength workout," or the BFT, "Alright everyone, grab your shovels and let's hit the gravel!"  ;)

Cheers
G2G
Title: Re: Running
Post by: stealthylizard on August 03, 2010, 23:43:37
Most people I know that failed the express test during BMQ and ended up in RFT was because of the beep test, as you could fail one strength portion and as long as you passed the run, you could stay on course.  There were a few that were there because they failed 2 strength tests, and passed the beep test, but that was very rare.  Aside from the running part, the 2nd most common thing people would fail was the pushups.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Tango18A on August 04, 2010, 01:49:54
And the few times that I've seen the push-ups failed was for form, not amount. The FSP staff in Kingston were hideous at applying a common standard.
Title: Calf pains after running.
Post by: genesis563 on August 06, 2010, 16:18:42
Hey guys, i've been trying to get back in shape for my entry exam. i should be due to do it in a few weeks. I've been trying to follow a running schedule that has me running one day and taking one off. Every time i run i go for about 2 to 2.5 km and run it in anywhere from 9m50s to 10m50s depending on how good i feel that day. My question is to anyone who might have the same problem or is knowledgeable enough to give me an idea of what my problem could be. After my runs i have a sharp pain in my right calf that will generally stay for days and get worst if i continue to run or walk. This pain occurs along the inner calf where the calf muscle meets the tibia. I've searched the internet in the past and found that stretching my calf before and after will make the pain less intense and allow me to run once every two days, but the pain never really goes away. Any idea's of what i can do to alleviate the pain, fix the problem or who i can consult?
As a side note, any comments on my readiness for the entry exam and for the military in general will be appreciated.
Finally, as a miniature rant, let me just say that i started the process of enrolling in the reserves in may and i'm still not done. It's been pretty frustrating so far. *End Rant*
Title: Re: Calf pains after running.
Post by: aesop081 on August 06, 2010, 16:21:16

Finally, as a miniature rant, let me just say that i started the process of enrolling in the reserves in may and i'm still not done. It's been pretty frustrating so far. *End Rant*

Do you know what reserve units are up to in the May-June-July-August timeframe ?

They usualy stand down because the reserve schools standup for a multitude of trades training. That all equals to staff not around to deal with other things.

Adjust your rant accordingly.
Title: Re: Calf pains after running.
Post by: genesis563 on August 06, 2010, 17:12:00
Do you know what reserve units are up to in the May-June-July-August timeframe ?

They usualy stand down because the reserve schools standup for a multitude of trades training. That all equals to staff not around to deal with other things.

Adjust your rant accordingly.
I wasn't really asking for a reply to my rant. If i  wanted one i would have posted this in the personal stories section or something of the sort. Please don't post just to say something stupid or irrelevant or to add another post to your post count. I'm sorry if you work as a recruiter and took it personally but you should be more thick skinned than that. I'm really only looking for an answer to my original question.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Calf pains after running.
Post by: aesop081 on August 06, 2010, 17:18:58
I'm sorry if you work as a recruiter and took it personally but you should be more thick skinned than that.

I'm not a recruiter and i dont get money for each post so i am not worried about that. I do like rants that are based on facts and if you are going to ***** about something, educate yourself a little first.



 
Quote
I'm really only looking for an answer to my original question.


The next time, post only your question and keep the bitching to yourself.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Algae on August 06, 2010, 17:24:23
Well, on my side I have no problem with strength. I can do 14 chin up, plenty of push up and sit up. But I think I have focused more on the upper body strength. So now I have added lot of legs exercises on my training, so I hope it will help with running. (Leg press, dead lift, lunge, squat, etc.) I try to make it really cardio vascular too.

Biking is a good idea, but again, it's not the same as running, I'm way better on a bike. My Cardio is really good in a pool, but when I run, I become tired rapidly, so I guess it's really a muscular problem. They are probably too weak and use too much energy. Also what is cool in a pool, it's that you stay cold and fresh, I don't like to be all sweaty. On a bike, same thing, lot of air flow to keep your temperature low.

But no mather what we like/dislike, the fact is that we have to run, and I will do everything I can do be good at it, and for that I need to keep running.

Thanks all, for those who are leaving in September like me, keep running and I'm looking forward to go for a run with you ;)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: mathabos on August 06, 2010, 18:01:35
The best piece of advice I have received about running was from a female friend of mine who was on the track team at university.
She said that she couldn't run to save her life at the beginning.
In order to start, she would run as slow as possible. Slightly faster than normal
walking speed. She would do this for 30 to 45 min.

I tried training this way and it helped me a lot. I did it for a month and a half.
This way I was able to train my muscles and create endurance. The reason being
is I would always stop a run because of leg and shin cramps.
After training this way for the month and a half, I was able to run slightly faster for 30 min. Then faster and faster as the weeks went by.
I was able to build up my speed and cardio to the minimum standards in only 3 months.

All thanks for my new found ability and love of running go to my track friend.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: AshFromCan on August 06, 2010, 19:30:57
Genesis563,

I have had a similar problem in the past involving my calves. While I have never had pain that lasted for days, I have experienced pain in my calves during and immediately following long runs. I found that if I simply stretched out my calves for a fair amount of time prior to running, I would never feel any pain or discomfort and am able to run much longer and harder as a result. Your problem sounds different than mine was, but I hope this helps. It's worth a shot.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: armychick2009 on August 06, 2010, 19:37:54
I went to to a proper running shoe store today and they immediately were able to figure out why I was getting chin pain during and after running. Immediately I felt relief as I tried the shoes on in the store and ran with them, in the store... I'd suggest you go to a running shoe store (a proper one, that actually WATCHES you run with the shoes on) and see if that helps with your tibia pain. You may also have inflammation in there somewhere that takes aday or two to settle, which is why you can run every other day but  - not every day. Try taking a motrin for a few days (not heavy doses, follow the light dosage) and... if you can run a few days without pain, then it's inflammation somewhere. If it is still there, then it's likely something more significant.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Tango18A on August 06, 2010, 19:41:11
A visit to the Dr. might be inorder if the pain is chronic. Just remember the damage done now will be forever.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: armychick2009 on August 06, 2010, 19:41:55
That's definitely the wisest thing to do!
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Good2Golf on August 06, 2010, 19:45:44
A visit to the Dr. might be inorder if the pain is chronic. Just remember the damage done now will be forever.

Concur with T18A!

Even with good shoes, I was having an issue with my achilles; saw the M.O. and got inserts for my runners...huge difference!

G2G
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Tango18A on August 06, 2010, 19:54:09
And it also saves your Back, Knees, Ankles and Feet further down the line. Life after retirement always has to be considered.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: aesop081 on August 06, 2010, 20:02:44
Life after retirement always has to be considered.

Hell yeah !!!!

being a "hard core, fight through the pain, jump down off of everything, etc..." guy catches up with you in the end.....
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Tango18A on August 06, 2010, 20:05:09
And seeing the tough guys end their careers on P Cat all crippled up is sometimes quite heart breaking as they had such big plans for after the Army, and now they can't even get up a flight of stairs with out cringing in pain or worse.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: genesis563 on August 06, 2010, 21:22:15
Yea thanks guys but I've already been to the Dr. and his mentality is "your young you can get over it.". So i went ahead and got a pair of orthopedic insoles thinking it would fix the problem and it changed nothing (so much for 300$ eh?). So for now I'm living with it. I was wondering if people like physio therapists could help but i flinched when i heard it was $60 per session and I'm guessing that they "need" several sessions per week for several months -_-... Otherwise I'm waiting on my new medicare card before i go back to my wonderful Dr. to get him to take a more extensive look at it.
Otherwise as i originally asked as a side note, do you guys think that my running times are acceptable for the test? I've been looking around and saw that its better to run longer distances at slower paces rather than shorter distances and quicker paces. I run generally 12-14 km/h for anywhere from 2 -2.5 km in which equates to more or less 10 minutes... Any thoughts?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: stealthylizard on August 06, 2010, 21:47:32
Most of the running day to day for reg force infantry is minimum 5km.  For you being a future reservist, I would say work on both, although I have no idea what trade you are interested in.  Regardless PT and being physically fit should be important to all CF segments.  I'm sure all this has been covered in the past.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Kratos on August 06, 2010, 22:10:16
Have you tried rolling your calves? You can buy a foam roller, but a piece of PVC is probably cheaper and will work better.

Just another idea. Not many people know about SMR and how awesome it is.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Tango18A on August 07, 2010, 00:43:32
Have You ever given a defenition of SMR??

Here is what I found. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myofascial_Release which is a drugless therapy which sound alot like a Chiropractor. Not covered by the CF unless Physiotherapy perscribes it.

Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_Relaxant which is a drug therapy which must be perscirbed by a M.O.

So which one is it??
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Kratos on August 07, 2010, 10:13:54
It's the first one. I don't know much about chiropractors, but no one has to prescribe it to you. You buy a foam roller or a piece of PVC pipe and literally roll on it in various ways. It's exceptionally efficient at loosening up tight/sore muscles.

Check YouTube for some video examples.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Tango18A on August 07, 2010, 12:58:22
Any kind of therapy is best advised about by an M.O. this way if something goes wrong, the system is in the know about it. And documentation is much easier with 663s and CF98s.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Kratos on August 07, 2010, 15:20:52
Any kind of therapy is best advised about by an M.O. this way if something goes wrong, the system is in the know about it. And documentation is much easier with 663s and CF98s.

It's not "therapy", doesn't need to be advised and nothing can go wrong. Is stretching after you exercise/lift weights therapy that needs to be advised? I would almost place SMR in the category of a necessity if you lift weights and/or run.

Here is an alright video explaining it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM7nKUCpJ6E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM7nKUCpJ6E)

Here is one from Eric Cressey demonstrating a lot of different positions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8caF1Keg2XU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8caF1Keg2XU)

The difference it makes is incredible.

Maybe I should have explained it before, but it's really nothing complicated and certainly nothing that someone has to prescribe to you or monitor you doing it.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Algae on August 09, 2010, 21:14:13
I have run an 8km in 42 minutes 2 days ago, and it was much easier that I expected. In fact, it's the first, well 2km that is the worst, after that it become easier. After it, I have run a 400meter in 1:35 so I was having plenty of energy left.

I just hope it will continue to keep getting better.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: fischer10 on August 09, 2010, 22:05:34
I have run an 8km in 42 minutes 2 days ago, and it was much easier that I expected. In fact, it's the first, well 2km that is the worst, after that it become easier. After it, I have run a 400meter in 1:35 so I was having plenty of energy left.

I just hope it will continue to keep getting better.

Yesterday I ran 7.4km in just over 38 minutes in mid-day (~30 degrees Celsius at the time). I usually don't run at this time of day, but figure I would try. It was one tough go considering I do not have anything to carry water with me (really stupid to run in that weather for that far..) Last kilometer I was VERY hot and really did not want to run.

When do you usually run Algae? I usually run early morning (what we do on course correct?) or late night (~9-10PM). I can run farther with ease. Should I switch my running time over to day or keep them where they are at? Anyone else find it makes a huge difference (I could potentially cut off 1-2 minutes in the regular 2.4km run)? I'm running the 2.4 in ~9 minutes now, which is good (I want it better of course) but would training in the heat opposed to cooler weather make a difference (tolerance wise maybe??)

I also just bought proper running shoes from The Running Room - Helped a lot with my time! Though, they put stress on different muscles (balancing out my running right now, apparently I ran on the outer part of my foot) which is a pain right now, good thing I bought them a month ahead of my training to break them in and get use to them :D

(I underlined questions so they are easier to find in that mess I just wrote)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Algae on August 09, 2010, 22:16:29
Well, I run when it's not too hot. I'm going to BMOQ in September, so I guess it won't be 30C. I don't like the heat at all. I would much prefer to go in Alaska then Afghanistan. Since I'm going to be a logistic officer I guess BMOQ will be the most intensive physical training.

So, well, I try to run when it's under 22C :) At this time I'm unable to run 2.4km in 9 minutes. Last time I try I was doing it in 13minutes. But I feel lot more confident now after this 8km run, so I guess I would be able to do it in 11 or 12 now. Currently I start to see the result of my training. It's just started to materialize. So I will keep pushing, but I prefer to run at a slower speed and not to race against the clock. At least not each time, I prefer to simply enjoy my run.

I'm still swimming a lot, I just did 600 meter under 10 minutes. So everything is getting better and better.

I think people here will say to you, learn to run under different circumstances (cold, hot, dry, rainy), but I'm not there yet. I will focus on that later.

Good shoes is important. But for sure, when you run 8km for the first time (I was never doing more then 3.5km before) your feet hurt a bit next day. But nothing too bad. They just need some rest to heal correctly and with time they become stronger.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: fischer10 on August 09, 2010, 22:35:26
I would rather be in the heat. The cold annoys me, maybe because I have lived my life in extreme conditions where its more cold then hot (weather where I live goes from 30C+ summers to -40C or below winters and any storms and garbage conditions in between)

I am in for Armoured Soldier, so I'll have to continue my physical progress (fully plan on increasing my abilities as well). If you can do 8km in 42 minutes (~5 min/km, which should give you ~12 minutes for 2.4km) should give you under the time needed (13 minutes 42 seconds? Somewhere in there). If you push it you could hit 11 minutes ;)

I push every run I do, no matter long or short. have to break those walls (points in the run where you have to really push to keep going), and the more you run and the harder you run the easier those walls are broken, some even disappear :D

I wish I had a pool to swim in :( Been a long time since I have swam for anything! As for the feet, mine are good to go, its the inner muscles of my legs that are getting a workout with the new shoes! I ran so much on the outer part I did not have balance between inner and outer leg muscles, which is bad in a way.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Algae on August 09, 2010, 22:44:14
Well, same here in Québec, +40C to -40C, but I really dislike +40C. I'm the type of guy who keep my inside house at 22C with a cooling system. I think I prefer the cold, at least you can put more clothes on if needed. But when it's hot, it comes to a point where you can't remove any more.

And we need to do 2.4km in 11:52, not in 13:42. But yeah, I'm sure I can push harder, but 8km was already a wall breaking for me from my previous 3.6km (I was ready to stop at 2.4, then a 5, then at 6, then at 7,4 and I say, well I will push it to 8km.) And I'm sure I could have done a bit more, but I was running out of time. I guess I would be able to run the 2.4 with more confidence now. Because it's always a balance between saving energy vs speed.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: fischer10 on August 09, 2010, 23:10:23
Well, same here in Québec, +40C to -40C, but I really dislike +40C. I'm the type of guy who keep my inside house at 22C with a cooling system. I think I prefer the cold, at least you can put more clothes on if needed. But when it's hot, it comes to a point where you can't remove any more.

And we need to do 2.4km in 11:52, not in 13:42. But yeah, I'm sure I can push harder, but 8km was already a wall breaking for me from my previous 3.6km (I was ready to stop at 2.4, then a 5, then at 6, then at 7,4 and I say, well I will push it to 8km.) And I'm sure I could have done a bit more, but I was running out of time. I guess I would be able to run the 2.4 with more confidence now. Because it's always a balance between saving energy vs speed.

Indeed you are correct on the 2.4km time! I was reading the threshold time (my bad!). Here I have trained thinking I had to run 13:43! The Canadian Forces site is all redone (will spend my night reading it now haha) and looks good.

Energy vs. Speed is hard for me...I can never keep pace as I've always been a sprinter and a guy that never kept a steady pace in any sport. Would fluctuate so much, which helped me build a fast recovering stamina...Though, running longer distances really drains me I find. I'm not use to it at all :(
Title: Re: Running
Post by: 54low on August 10, 2010, 15:47:54
Hello everyone,

I've been training to prepare myself for the BMQ this November but there was just one thing that has been bugging me. I have a corn on my foot(big toe mound) and I wanted to ask if anyone in this forum had a similar experience and had it removed before. It doesn't bother me directly when I run but it really hurts when I accidentally step on edgy surfaces. At first I tried removing it myself but it seems to get thicker and thicker over time. Do you normally see a walk-in doctor or just pay a visit to see a podiatrician?

Thanks in advance for your comments,

gwones
Title: Re: Running
Post by: MrBlue on August 13, 2010, 09:10:00
Perhaps it's personal experience then.  I've seen significantly more failures on the shuttle run -- not 0.5, but certainly in the 3's and 4's.  While all elements of the CF fitness program are in the end the individual's responsibility, running is something that the CoC has far greater influence over, especially organizing it at the unit level.

Imagine prepping unit personnel for the Xpress test, "All right everyone, today the unit is going to have a wrist-strength workout," or the BFT, "Alright everyone, grab your shovels and let's hit the gravel!"  ;)

Cheers
G2G

In my opinion that's a cop-out. Getting troops together for a run is EASY, and requires little to no planning, at least in the runs the military does, where there is no quantifiable results to improve upon.  We just run for 45mins, no timed distance, no sprint work, etc...just kill time.

Now on the other hand, getting your troops together and training them on how to properly lift, or doing crossfit workouts, or strongman medley type workouts (scaled down) with pulling objects, flipping tires, suitcase walk, log press, etc (all stuff we have in our compound) is more complicated as you need to get everything set up, teach everyone how to do it, etc.

Also your sarcasm about a wrist-strength workout either demonstrates your lack of knowledge in regards to training or that you are simply trying to dumb this way to much.

you can work more then one bodypart at a time, and get stronger as a whole, carrying heavy objects over distances, or holding heavy items in your hands builds grip strength, but at the same time you could then use those objects to do many other lifts/events.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Good2Golf on August 13, 2010, 17:27:49
Biggoals2bdone, in your haste to denigrate my input and to make the case for the complexities of extensive, wide-ranging, proper fitness training that could be done at the unit level, you missed my point.  My point was this: without refocusing the unit onto a heavily PT-biased training program (because other things are Job #1), I noted that running is something that can, relatively easily*, be coordinated at the unit level to be beneficial for the unit. 

As you noted, when you start to get more complex in your range of PT-related activities, you begin to develop the need for a properly implementing PT regime, kind of like what the CFPSA folks are trained for, and implement for our benefit.  My "wrist-strength workout" was a tongue-in-cheek reference (note the smilie) to the Xpres test hand-grip as well as the difficulties that would likely be experienced trying to establish an extensive, varied PT program AT the unit (vice for the unit by CFPSA/PT folks).  Same with the gravel training.

My point remains, that the balance between what a unit can achieve collectively regarding PT, that still allows it to train for all its other mission-essential tasks, tends to keep group/unit training for those PT elements that can more easily be accomplished collectively; running being one of those elements.

Not seeing how this shows ignorance of training fundamentals or a cavalier attitude towards proper fitness by dumbing things down to too much?

Regards
G2G




* - meaning 'provide benefit, yet not become a detracting effort with respect to other unit training activities'
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Fishbone Jones on August 13, 2010, 23:29:13
C'mon G2G, you got to drink the Kool Aid man. After all, you've only been in 25+ years. What the heck would you know about collective training and Unit admin?
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Good2Golf on August 14, 2010, 00:05:02
Quote
C'mon G2G, you got to drink the Kool Aid man. After all, you've only been in 25+ years. What the heck would you know about collective training and Unit admin?

Perhaps my experience is skewed by working in and with sister units that have runs, then see the guys going off doing other things like Crossfit, on their own.  ???  I haven't seen unit-level tire flipping PT yet, but then again, I've only worked with the air force, army and non-conventional forces so I don't have as rounded a background as perhaps some other folks do.  That said, I'm certainly willing to learn from those who know what they're talking about.

Regards
G2G
Title: Re: Running
Post by: MrBlue on August 14, 2010, 01:44:40
You haven't seen it because the military CAN'T wrap its head around the idea that you can do more then run or ruckmarch, so there's an over-emphasis on that. I have seen 3 RCR do it though, they have the tires on the lawn of their building.

Like I said, I think the PT SHOULD be planned/implemented just going out and killing 45mins with whatever activity may help health benefits a little, but doesn't really help actual training and achieving milestones/goals/requirements.

I wasn't saying getting crossfit workouts or strongman medley workouts was TO COMPLICATED...I was saying most units are to LAZY to set it up, and get a training plans set into place, for 2-3months, its far easier to just say ok everyone meet up parking lot for a run, then to plan training, in a manner as to improve aspects of fitness (strength, power, agility, speed, etc) and set up whatever pt is called for the day.

also the general bias for running over anything else....example ( REAL LIFE actually happened) member got 5 days no running, light pt on own, you know what i mean. well PT the the morning after called for a run, said mbr is HUGE into running, has done a marathon etc...well he says (loud enough for his supervisors to hear), that if he can't run he's not doing any PT today...and guess what no one said ANYTHING ever...while ALL the other members on restrictions go and do PT anyways, his excuse for not going to the gym and doing a little strength training, weights are to heavy they weigh more then i do (he's a tiny long distance runner type)

Title: Running
Post by: SoonToBeTim on August 15, 2011, 00:59:34
I got rid of my ashtma a year ago. I have always been running, but i didnt for like a year. I want to know if i should keep it going, or stop! I really want to run long distances, im naturally a fast runner. Can someone help? and give tips!?
Title: Re: Starting to run but chest hurts!
Post by: medicineman on August 15, 2011, 01:03:09
Maybe you should start slow with walk/run intervals and gradually work your way into running only.  If you haven't run in a year, you realistically won't be able to do what you did before right out of the gate.  Maybe sign up for a running clinic with Running Room or other such chain.

MM
Title: Re: Starting to run but chest hurts!
Post by: Devonm123 on August 17, 2011, 11:31:46
Run till your chest hurts then walk till it hurts less then run till it hurts again after a few repetitions the pain should subside your core muscles need to be strengthened as well as any other muscle
Title: Re: Starting to run but chest hurts!
Post by: frank1515 on August 17, 2011, 13:02:09
Seriously dude, go see a Doctor. Might be more serious than you think.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Vet67 on October 08, 2011, 16:11:55
So I've made it through the application process, have been merit listed and waiting for 'the call'.

I'm 25, 215lbs, can do 50+push ups in a row and run my 5k in 23minutes and change. 

Two questions for you all:
#1: What can I do to get my 5k time down while I wait?
#2: Would I be better focusing on 10k?

I have applied to the Combat Arms and want to be in the best shape possible.

Any help would be appreciated.

Title: Re: Running
Post by: PuckChaser on October 08, 2011, 18:50:32
There's lots of different schools of thought on how to improve run times. 2 of the big ones are interval training and heart rate training (running for long periods in your zone). Google them both and you'll find some running websites that will help you out. If you can get down to 20 mins for 5km, you're doing well, but make sure 5km isn't the top end of your distance.
Title: Running
Post by: HopefulA.B. on June 01, 2012, 19:42:52
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,39918.0.html - This thread is from 2006, is there a 2.4 K run somewhere for tests before BMQ, or somewhere at the start of BMQ?
  Thanks.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: MJP on June 01, 2012, 19:48:10
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,39918.0.html - This thread is from 2006, is there a 2.4 K run somewhere for tests before BMQ, or somewhere at the start of BMQ?
  Thanks.

There is no 2.4 Km test for BMQ period, only the 20 MSR.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: HopefulA.B. on June 01, 2012, 21:06:38
Thanks, what do you mean by 20 MSR?
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Jarnhamar on June 01, 2012, 21:10:43
Many think it's harder than a 2.4km timed run.

Basically you run between two lines spaced 20 meters apart.
You are given x about of time to run between the two points. Once you reach the other side you turn around and wait for a beep then you run back to where you started.

The time between beeps starts off slow and gets increasingly faster.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: HopefulA.B. on June 01, 2012, 23:22:41
Thanks.
Title: Good running routines
Post by: Ontario23 on August 09, 2012, 00:28:37
Hey,

I was wondering if you guys could share your successful running routines. I currently run everyday, but I feel as though I'm not improving at all. I currently run 2.4km every day, usually on a treadmill. I mix up the speeds and incline sometimes, but it still isn't much. If you guys have any tips or suggestions, please let me know!

Thanks
Title: Re: Good running routines
Post by: RDJP on August 09, 2012, 02:32:57
Get the runmeter app.
Title: Re: Good running routines
Post by: Dimsum on August 09, 2012, 02:45:38
Try running outside instead of on a treadmill.  A treadmill isn't the same as actually running; the closest would be an incline 2 or so on the same speed.  Also, different muscles/joints take the strain as instead of propelling yourself forward, you can end up propelling yourself up instead (if that makes any sense.)

If your goal is speed, try doing 2.4, then 3km, 4km, etc. on your normal pace, then try to beat that timing for the same distance.  If the goal is distance, keep the same pace and extend your distance (5, 10, 15km, etc.) 

Nike + GPS is awesome if you have an iPhone or similar; I think it's free as well. 
Title: Re: Good running routines
Post by: jrst on August 09, 2012, 09:44:22
I like the Couch to 5K routine, there's an app for it or you can find it online.  Pick the week where you are able to start (if you're already doing 2.4k, you probably don't need to start at week 1), and go from there.
Title: Re: Good running routines
Post by: MikeL on August 09, 2012, 09:49:20
If you are running everyday,  I would cut that back,  body needs a break to rest/recover.  Lots of good programs listed,  should go check them out.

If following a program isn't for you though, try mixing up what you do.  One day do sprints,  the other day run for time,  another day you could do fartlek,  run/spring uphill, etc.  As well,  going to the gym and doing weights and HIIT is beneficial as well.
Title: Need input on my running program.
Post by: Sizzle on November 08, 2012, 17:18:06
I found his online and am almost finished week 1, since I haven't ran since last year. I just want to get some input to find out if it is indeed a good program to go by. (the total times are inaccurate.)

Thanks,

Sean

(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMfheb.gif&hash=4375eb3bf93587c345a082c04407bd5a)
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: jrst on November 08, 2012, 19:06:56
It looks very similar to a program I did, and I found it was an excellent program to start running with.  Good luck with it.
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: HappyWithYourHacky on November 09, 2012, 00:42:45
Depends what your goals are. In my opinion this is the way to train.

www.crossfitendurance.com
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: MMSS on November 09, 2012, 09:51:01
Sizzle, that is the "Couch to 5K" plan which many people have followed (including myself). I found it very helpful; as a guy who couldn't run for more than 30 seconds without getting winded, I now regularly go 3-4K (25+ minutes) during my workouts.
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: secondchance on November 09, 2012, 12:01:13
I can run 10 km in 66 minutes very easy.But it is only 9.1 km per hour.How to improove speed ?
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: Sizzle on November 09, 2012, 12:10:49
Sizzle, that is the "Couch to 5K" plan which many people have followed (including myself). I found it very helpful; as a guy who couldn't run for more than 30 seconds without getting winded, I now regularly go 3-4K (25+ minutes) during my workouts.

Thank you for the confirmation. I have slacked off a bit this year and am pumped to get back to everyday running.

Cheers
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: MMSS on November 09, 2012, 12:38:37
Thank you for the confirmation. I have slacked off a bit this year and am pumped to get back to everyday running.

Cheers

Good luck! There's a lot of information at http://www.c25k.com/ (http://www.c25k.com/) as well as the reddit community at http://www.reddit.com/r/c25k (http://www.reddit.com/r/c25k)
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: Ducam on December 02, 2012, 15:20:18
Good way to start running is just get out and run for 30 minutes without stopping and don't worry about speed or distance to begin with.
You should try to run 3 - 5 times a week once you get your muscles used to running and no longer have shin splints.

After about a month of cardio and endurance building you should move on to a goal of running 3 - 5kms in a certain time.

To increase speed the easiest way is to sprint short distances. Find a marked track for running at a college or highschool and practice doing sprint/jog/sprint/jog for as long as possible.

I've tried other methods to increase endurance and speed such as sprinting the final half km or 300 metres of your run if you are running a longer distance say around 5kms.

A great way to increase speed is also on a treadmill. Start at a light jog to get the blood pumping for a minute or two and then go into an all out sprint with the aim of hitting 1 km.

My routine for the past 9 months has been jog 5km on my days off from work and on the days I work I will go to the gym to do my regular workout followed by a 1 km sprint on a treadmill.

I never did like treadmills but I find they can be useful for setting a speed and then keeping a consistent pace.

Constant work on the leg muscles is also very key. Two things will always give out when you run it is just a matter of which will go first: Cardio or leg muscles. If your muscles are the first to fail then do your run followed by leg work outs such as leg presses/calve presses and muscle building of quads and hams. If your cardio goes first then just run more and try sprinting.

I do 5kms in 22 minutes and sprint 1km in 3 minutes.

That's my regular routine and I'm not sure if it will help anyone but there it is.
 
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: mariomike on December 02, 2012, 17:28:02
I just want to get some input to find out if it is indeed a good program to go by. 

"I like the Couch to 5K routine":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,107009.msg1163514.html#msg1163514

"Finally started my couch to 5k regiment": ( sic )
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,97095.msg986829.html#msg986829

"Take a glance at the 'Couch to 5k' running program":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search2

"I would recommend the Couch to 5k":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search2

"The couch-5k is an awesome program though.":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search2

Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: SentryMAn on December 04, 2012, 15:16:57
I can run 10 km in 66 minutes very easy.But it is only 9.1 km per hour.How to improove speed ?

Incourporate speed work and tempo runs into your work outs, as well as hills and repeats.

4X100m sprints  warm up(5-10 mins running) then do 100m full efforts(or you can use a time like 30s) rest 3-5 mins with either light jog or brisk walk, don't stop altogether.  Repeat 4 times to start and go from there

Hill repeats, 1 min all out effort(90-100%) on a hill that takes longer then 1 min to run.  Warm up well, start on incline and push yourself at max effort from the bottom to the 1 min mark, return to the bottom with a light jog, brisk walk, repeat trying to beat your last effot.

Tempo runs, this involves running at a steady state above your average speed for a duration of about 5 mins.  Warm up well, then speed up untill you would have a hard time saying more then a few words to someone, keep this speed for 5 mins, drop your speed down to a light jog for 5 mins, repeat.

do one of the above each week in combination with your regular runs.  Increase your mileage about 10-15% each week stepping back after 3 consecutive weeks about 20% as a recovery week.

enjoy.
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: secondchance on December 04, 2012, 22:37:23
Incourporate speed work and tempo runs into your work outs, as well as hills and repeats.

4X100m sprints  warm up(5-10 mins running) then do 100m full efforts(or you can use a time like 30s) rest 3-5 mins with either light jog or brisk walk, don't stop altogether.  Repeat 4 times to start and go from there

Hill repeats, 1 min all out effort(90-100%) on a hill that takes longer then 1 min to run.  Warm up well, start on incline and push yourself at max effort from the bottom to the 1 min mark, return to the bottom with a light jog, brisk walk, repeat trying to beat your last effot.

Tempo runs, this involves running at a steady state above your average speed for a duration of about 5 mins.  Warm up well, then speed up untill you would have a hard time saying more then a few words to someone, keep this speed for 5 mins, drop your speed down to a light jog for 5 mins, repeat.

do one of the above each week in combination with your regular runs.  Increase your mileage about 10-15% each week stepping back after 3 consecutive weeks about 20% as a recovery week.

enjoy.
thanks,
I am going to use
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: secondchance on December 05, 2012, 17:08:31
You should try to run 3 - 5 times a week once you get your muscles used to running and no longer have shin splints.
I heard  for running you must have day off after. Therefore it is good to run maximum 3 times per week.Every second day. 
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: Ducam on December 05, 2012, 17:22:50
I heard  for running you must have day off after. Therefore it is good to run maximum 3 times per week.Every second day. 

Depends on comfort level, muscle strength and even the type of shoes you run in.

Due to my work schedule my regular routine would be two days off of work where I run 5 km each day and then two days working so due to time restrictions I will only do 1 km sprints on those days.

That is just my regular routine but I will agree that the further distance you run the more beneficial it is to have a rest time the next day.

and "should try to run 3-5 times a week" means 3 times minimum and 5 days maximum.
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: SentryMAn on December 05, 2012, 18:01:23
During your build up phases, say 3 times a week where you do a low/medium/long run
after the longest of the runs take the next day as a rest day.

The other days you can "rest" by doing push-ups and sit ups or hitting the gym like Arnold.


Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: Hitman on December 29, 2012, 13:44:31
I can run 10 km in 66 minutes very easy.But it is only 9.1 km per hour.How to improove speed ?

To increase speed, you can do track repeats or hill training. For track repeats, I will run 400-600m at 110% race pace for race training around 5-7k and 1600m for longer distances - 15k and up. For hill training, start just running up a steep hill or mountain, and once your legs get a little stronger, you can start doing sprints.
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: Zulopol on March 14, 2014, 11:25:19
I can do 5km in 30min
And 2.4km in 10min52s

I prefer doing short distance with high speed than high distance..

Did after like 1 years doing these exercise I will be better ?
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: blackberet17 on March 14, 2014, 11:45:54
If you're doing the same thing over and over and over, you'll be "better"...but better only at doing a 5k in 30 min, and 2.4 in 10.

Try doing 6k in 30. Or 5k in 28.

The way to get better, stronger, faster, is to increase distance, lower the time, etc., something to make it more challenging.
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: Zulopol on March 14, 2014, 12:49:41
6km in 30min :O omg I dont think is possible.. 12km/H Running Speed  :-\

Thanks for your response
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: Mike5 on March 14, 2014, 14:19:41
I recommend the Running Room.  If there is a store in your neighborhood check it out... they have clinics (5K, 10K, Half, Marathon) and a free Sunday morning group run.  Great environment to learn more about running
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: ballz on March 15, 2014, 02:17:14
6km in 30min :O omg I dont think is possible.. 12km/H Running Speed  :-\

Thanks for your response

If your starting point is 5km in 30 minutes, you will probably be surprised by how fast you can get to 5km in 25 minutes.

A good running program for any regular joe that just wants to improve is 3x a week, a high-intensity interval session, a low-intensity long distance session, and a mid-intensity mid-distance session.

If you want to use 5km / 25 minutes as a goal (a good "first" goal for anyone), try this:

So 3 workouts per week, depending on your schedule but Mon, Wed, Fri is what a lot of people adapt to...

#1. Intervals (should vary each week). 80-85% intensity, 200m. Walk 100m. Repeat 10x.... 75% intensity, 400m, slow jog 200m. Repeat 8x.

#2. 8km as long as you need.... then stretch it out to 9km... then 10km. Each week try to stretch it out (to a reasonable amount of 10-13km).

#3. A 5km run at the best pace you can maintain. You should focus on improving your 5km time from the week previous. You'll be surprised how fast the interval/distance work will start to affect your time.
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: runormal on March 15, 2014, 09:19:45
Ive used that, my sisters used it I've also sent it to a few buddies. My sister has since gone on to run 10ks and is now working on a half marathon. I also recommend this program to anyone on this site.

I barely completed the first week, at the time. But now I've never had a problem with pt with the army and I'm better at sports. It is a great program, it is very simple and you will get the results you want.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: ModlrMike on March 15, 2014, 12:38:57
Two really good training programmes for the smartphone user:

C25K - Couch to 5K

B210K - Bridge to 10K

http://www.c25k.com/ (http://www.c25k.com/)
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: Zulopol on March 15, 2014, 17:05:32
Thanks ``ballz`` for the program !  :salute:
Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: blackberet17 on March 17, 2014, 12:39:13
There are folks running 5k in 15 min. Anything (almost!!) is possible, if you work hard at 'er. It's all about trg, sticking with it, and having a goal.

I've been a runner off and on for years, ran a few 10k, the Tilburg Ten Miler, the odd 5k...and the biggest thing I've learned are the three points above. I'm almost forty, so I have a goal of running a half this October, if not sooner, so I can get a full in under my belt before I hit the big 4-0.

Title: Re: Need input on my running program.
Post by: MCG on March 17, 2014, 16:46:54
6km in 30min :O omg I dont think is possible.. 12km/H Running Speed  :-\
That is only a 5 min km - a good distance pace.
Title: Aerobic test and climbing hill?
Post by: alx12345 on May 15, 2014, 16:06:03
Hello, theres something i am not sure about the running test for recruitment, i know that i have to to run 2.4km under 11:56m, but i was wondering if the road would also include some hill to climb or its just a straight road? That would make a difference, however i am still untrained, i did the test and i can run about 7km without stopping in 30mins with some light climbing on the way for about 1km.
Title: Re: Aerobic test and climbing hill?
Post by: Cbbmtt on May 22, 2014, 12:01:21
You will have no problem, and no hills. Quebec is flat.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jim11333 on June 09, 2014, 14:02:41
Hello everyone:

I most likely am going on a BMQ course this fall/winter for AVN Tech

I was wondering if anyone know's the distance ran every morning?

I currently can do 5k in 28 min, i would like to get that down to 25 min

If someone recenly has went to BMQ and could let me know that would be great for my training.

Thank you
Title: Re: Running
Post by: BadgerTrapper on June 09, 2014, 17:37:19
Firstly, congratulations on getting your offer. Secondly, as for the distance ran every morning, it varies depending on your staff. Most mornings we did 3.2ish km's. Others the staff blocked off some time and we ended up running 6.4. With that said, at no point should you become comfortable running at a single pace. Always strive to beat your time, run faster and further. You'll never really know just how far or how hard they're going push you. There has been some good advice given on this thread, I'd advise scrolling through the pages and seeing what some of the other members have recommended. Hope this helps. -Badger :cdn:
Title: Re: Running
Post by: jim11333 on June 16, 2014, 13:43:26
Thank you for the reply.

Reading the other posts i should be in good enough shape to do well on the course.
Its just a waiting game for me now, unfortunatly there are no selection dates schedualed for avn tech even though there are several positions available the recruiter told me.

Any other training tips to improve are always welcome.
Thanks again
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Pushpin on July 26, 2015, 21:35:08
Thanks to the many people with insight and tips on this topic, my running has greatly improved.  I'm running 2.2k in 10 minutes, I'm pushing myself through speed drills, and I'm running 5k comfortably and without issues.  I plan to increase my distance now.  And hopefully with continued effort, the speed drills won't always feel like my lungs want to explode...
Title: Re: Running
Post by: mariomike on July 26, 2015, 21:51:56
Thanks to the many people with insight and tips on this topic, my running has greatly improved.

In case you need more,

Running: Training, Problems, Techniques, Questions, etc
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=22788.0;nowap
18 pages.
Title: Re: Running
Post by: Pushpin on July 26, 2015, 21:59:54
Ha!  That was probably the thread I meant to post in.  Thanks!!
Title: Re: Running
Post by: mariomike on July 26, 2015, 22:04:23
Congratulations on your progress.  :)
Title: Re: Running
Post by: secondchance on September 11, 2015, 15:07:51
I did yesterday 10K in 57 minutes 24 seconds. For man in his 40+ is not bad ?
But I heard  better is to do 10K in 50 minutes