Author Topic: Running in boots?  (Read 19350 times)

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Offline Hayward89

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Running in boots?
« on: April 01, 2013, 05:07:48 »
I've been doing this since I started getting ready (3 weeks ago) and I haven't had any problems, but I hear it's bad for shins/calves. Any confirmation on this?

Also, while I'm asking, I saw a post on here where a guy suggested taking a duffelbag, filling it with rocks and sand, duct-taping it, and hucking it around with you wherever you go; be it running, push-ups, or just plain throwing it around. Any thoughts on doing this as well? Way past the point of looking like an idiot. Results are what I care about.

Offline Chelomo

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2013, 06:04:36 »
I can't answer for the boots, but adding weight is good. I would however rather advise a backpack (Well adjusted) or a weighted vest. They will balance the weight better, thus making all your muscles work, and reducing the risk of injury. Another good ressource I've found for push ups is this:

http://www.rmc.ca/ji-ir/pup-peb-eng.asp

If you can do everything in there, I reckon you will be more than ready for the push up part of the PT test, since this is the program given to RMC students who have to pass a different (And seemingly more strenuous) test than what is given at BM(O)Q.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 07:47:00 »
Buy a weight vest or military style plate carrier (with training plates) and go jogging with well fitting boots.

Do other exercises with the weight vest. Push ups sit ups chin ups pull ups plank.
Practice carrying 50+ pound weights in your hands and walking (farmers walk)
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Offline C.G.R

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2013, 09:38:19 »
I personally find it hard on my shins when running in the issued boots, it is not as bad in mynon issued boots.
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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 09:41:27 »
OZ brings up some good points in his point.  I've ran with a sandbag before and a weighted vest,  I'd recommend the vest as the weight is distributed better, etc.  I also run in shoes, not boots.

Start with a lighter weight,  and don't run for long,  or do it too often.  Slowly work your way up.  Also,  I would recommend running over hard sand or grass/field instead of a hard surface. 

Here's some info about the dufflebag/sand bag

I saw a post on here where a guy suggested taking a duffelbag, filling it with rocks and sand, duct-taping it, and hucking it around with you wherever you go

I would avoid filling a dufflebag with rocks and sand.  The rocks will most likely make holes in the bag after awhile,  and unless you seal the bag very well and keep doing touch ups sand will get everywhere.  Here's a link on how to make them as well.. pretty simple to do and it suggests a few items to use.
http://www.itstactical.com/fitcom/functional-strength-fitcom/sandbags-unconventional-tools-for-functional-strength/

There is quite a few exercises you can do with a sandbag;  such as get ups,  squats,  drags, etc  The link above has a video that demonstrates a bunch of sandbag exercises.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 09:54:16 by -Skeletor- »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 09:46:19 »
No matter what you are getting here for suggestions as to running in boots and running carrying weights; let me let you in on an old policy brought about by the studies that found many of the lower back injuries and leg injuries suffered by CAF (formerly CF, formerly CAF, etc.) members in the Combat Arms were the results from running in boots and running carrying a ruck in training.  That is why, many years ago, the Cbt Arms came up with the policy of no running in boots and no running carrying a ruck.  They came up with the concept called "Weight Load Walking".  It was to build up you endurance and strength while cutting down on high impact injuries caused by running with weights or in boots.  It did permit the wearing of boots.  Of course, the Airborne types of the day looked at this and figured that if they ran they would increase the speed by which they could build up endurance and strength.  That was not what the intent of "Weight Load Walking" was supposed to be and was counter productive, as they were increasing the stress on their lower backs and legs. 

Any who want to disregard this, can; but I ask:  Where would you ever run 13 (plus or minus) km with a full ruck in boots, wpn, and all your PPE and be effective as a combatant?   At most you would run a few hundred meters dress as such, before you ditched you unnecessary equipment (ruck).
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 10:34:39 »
At most you would run a few hundred meters dress as such, before you ditched you unnecessary equipment (ruck) hit the bump straps to drop your ruck but forget to undo the waist strap, drop to the prone and start crawling while dragging this kit explosion behind you briefly while anyone watching busts a gut...

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Offline Scott

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 11:11:08 »
Was the policy not directed at when troops were running on hard surfaces in boots? I seem to remember this key part of the equation.

One of my DS got in pretty severe crap for running us on pavement with web gear and weapon. Of course it took someone going to the MIR to get the ball rolling, and that person might have weighed a ton, but whatever...

I took a C9 handle right in the balls the first only time I ever forgot about my waist belt and hit the ditch straps. You can take a guess at how much sympathy I got.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 11:24:47 »
Body hardening is important.   

Soldiers on patrol in Afghanistan carried more weight with their tacvests and small packs than the people from NDHQ do with their rucksacks on 13 km BFTs. They would also do it longer than 2 hours and 26 minutes.

Training with a weight vest and maybe small pack with some weight in it will harden someones body towards the rigors they will be faced with in the field. (Mostly for combat arms but everyone should train towards that)

That's not to suggest someone should put on combat boots load a 100 liter rucksack with weight then go run a half marathon on pavement.
Adding weight (and resistance) to your body will change the dynamics in how you lift, carry, move, bend and fight.



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Offline Jed

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 11:35:53 »
Body hardening is important.   

Soldiers on patrol in Afghanistan carried more weight with their tacvests and small packs than the people from NDHQ do with their rucksacks on 13 km BFTs. They would also do it longer than 2 hours and 26 minutes.

Training with a weight vest and maybe small pack with some weight in it will harden someones body towards the rigors they will be faced with in the field. (Mostly for combat arms but everyone should train towards that)

That's not to suggest someone should put on combat boots load a 100 liter rucksack with weight then go run a half marathon on pavement.
Adding weight (and resistance) to your body will change the dynamics in how you lift, carry, move, bend and fight.


All true. After time it squashes your arches, blows out your knee joints and compresses your disks. lol
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2013, 18:33:03 »
Jeepers... who would be crazy enough to require troops to cover dozens of miles on the run wearing boots and rucks and carrying weapons. That's just too dangerous, isn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBpEbym-usA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csSBI_P2Kn4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhOlFVw9BE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs9bj8D8To0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-DsnH4vkxY


And that's precisely the reason to do alot of it  ;D
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MikeL

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2013, 18:50:51 »
Pretty quick pace for the 2 mile run in 35lbs of kit

I find it a bit interesting that the Reservists(TA) have an extra minute to do the run,  as well they are not required to do the 20 miler which the Regulars do.  Are TA Soldiers in P Company for less time then the Regular Force?

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2013, 19:01:32 »
Pretty quick pace for the 2 mile run in 35lbs of kit

I find it a bit interesting that the Reservists(TA) have an extra minute to do the run,  as well they are not required to do the 20 miler which the Regulars do.  Are TA Soldiers in P Company for less time then the Regular Force?

The tests used to be the same for reservists, but delivered over a series of weekends. Same times, same series of activities, just delivered over a different time span. The Royal Marines and SAS did pretty much the same.

From what I saw it resulted in a different kind of guy, for sure, but it was still pretty tough.

I assume that now they don't have the time to do all the same tests, so upgrade the reservists at some point by adding something in to their regular training program, but I'm not sure.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

blues

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2013, 19:52:18 »
Hayward,

I just noticed that you started this type (weighted/boots) of training 3 weeks ago. I don't know what your training background is prior to this, but I would like to stress the importance of both making gradual changes and starting slow. Much like a transition to barefoot running, but slower. My apologies in advance if you're already versed in this.

Both weighted running and walking can be beneficial to your training program, but it is important to realize that training with weight stresses the tendons/ligaments in your feet/calves/knees differently and with more stress than regular training. I'm not talking about muscular/cardio fitness, but the actual strength and ability of these tendons and ligaments. You can have a 2.5hr marathon time & be used to hiking some steep backcountry terrain with a heavy pack, but neither will have prepared your body for walking/running with weight on concrete for any extended period.

When doing your training, I recommend trying to do your weighted marches on concrete, as this is the same terrain you will be using on basic. The most important thing to strengthen with this training is your arches; stop if you feel pain. The beginning of mild planters fasciitis typically feels like a sharp pain from about the beginning of your big toe, along the inside of your foot, to about halfway into your arch. This is caused by an inflammatory response by your body, trying to heal your arch. Stop, let heal, and switch to something else for awhile. Don't stop and run the risk of it developing into something worse (collapsed arches, plantar fasciosis, heel spurs, all nasty).

Running with weight is quite different than walking with weight. Here, the strain will likely be on your knees. Similar to above. Work it in slowly, stop if you feel any pain & switch to something else for awhile. It is very possible to run with weight without side effects, but it takes time.

You also talked about footwear. If you decide to go with runners (I would), stay away from "barefoot" runners for this training. Especially on concrete, your feet need the cushion and more importantly the arch support, provided by a good set of runners. Salomon, at the other end of the spectrum, tends to make very arch-supportive footwear (can actually be painfully excessive for some). There is a happy balance in the middle.
Most modern runners have what looks like an "extra" eyelet a little ways back (towards your heel) on either side, past the top eyelet. Modern shoes are designed with these for a reason -- they give the shoe it's intended shape and helps to stop over/under pronation. It's really a no-brainer to use them, even if you don't tend to pronate without weight. If you're unsure about pronation, a surefire way to see your is to take off your shoes immediately after a hard training session while they're fresh off your feet. Look at them -- Are they obviously "bent" inwards or outwards? If so, take some photos and change up the shoe.
I honestly don't know enough about training with boots on to comment, but I would look for something relatively lightweight and (again) with good arch support. If you find your shoes/boots without the lack the support you need, consider adding an insole like "superfeet" (sold at MEC), which incorporates rigid plastic heel cup to give you more.

Just wanted to mention that strengthening this part of your body is just as important as the cardiovascular/muscular system, and only becomes more important when you add weight & concrete. It's my belief that this is why the CF had so many injury problems with getting the new guys to ruck run.


\\
Edit: Damnit. Hope this helps someone anyways :\
\\
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 20:28:14 by blues »

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2013, 20:01:56 »
Hayward,

I just noticed that you started this type (weighted/boots) of training 3 weeks ago.

Probably way too late.

Check the date of the OP's original post.

April 1st
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Offline X_para76

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2013, 22:57:59 »
The tests used to be the same for reservists, but delivered over a series of weekends. Same times, same series of activities, just delivered over a different time span. The Royal Marines and SAS did pretty much the same.

From what I saw it resulted in a different kind of guy, for sure, but it was still pretty tough.

I assume that now they don't have the time to do all the same tests, so upgrade the reservists at some point by adding something in to their regular training program, but I'm not sure.
[/quote

From what I know the old p-coy which was run pre-Falklands was completed in 3 days and it wasn't until after the Falklands that the endurance marches were brought in and p-coy was extended to 5 days. That being said I don't think that the TA was ever required to complete the endurance tabs as part of their test week events. I wasn't aware that they were given any additional time to complete the 2 miler test though.

On p-coy all the tests are completed wearing boots and only the endurance marches don't require the candidates to run wearing boots. As a result it's a must that recruits are PT'd in boots.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Running in boots?
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2013, 20:32:00 »
The tests used to be the same for reservists, but delivered over a series of weekends. Same times, same series of activities, just delivered over a different time span. The Royal Marines and SAS did pretty much the same.

From what I saw it resulted in a different kind of guy, for sure, but it was still pretty tough.

I assume that now they don't have the time to do all the same tests, so upgrade the reservists at some point by adding something in to their regular training program, but I'm not sure.
[/quote

Yep. We're not here for a long time, just a hard time  ;D
From what I know the old p-coy which was run pre-Falklands was completed in 3 days and it wasn't until after the Falklands that the endurance marches were brought in and p-coy was extended to 5 days. That being said I don't think that the TA was ever required to complete the endurance tabs as part of their test week events. I wasn't aware that they were given any additional time to complete the 2 miler test though.

On p-coy all the tests are completed wearing boots and only the endurance marches don't require the candidates to run wearing boots. As a result it's a must that recruits are PT'd in boots.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon