Author Topic: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible  (Read 81672 times)

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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #250 on: April 28, 2019, 11:53:06 »
...thus how TBS, whose Information Technology and Human Resources branches failed to provide oversight to the implementation of Phoenix, are now building its replacement...
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Offline dapaterson

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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #252 on: May 15, 2019, 10:29:12 »

Good news, job security for the people in this department :)

Phoenix pay grievances threaten to choke federal labour relations board

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/phoenix-pay-grievances-threaten-to-choke-federal-labour-relations-board


Meanwhile, the payment processes to IBM seem to be working smoothly:

Phoenix cost soars by another $137M, paid to IBM

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/phoenix-costs-137-million-ibm-1.5135545
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Online Remius

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #253 on: May 15, 2019, 10:56:21 »
Info on the tentative Phoenix settlement agreed to by most bargaining agents (less PSAC).

Joint statement: https://www.acfo-acaf.com/2019/05/07/joint-statement-federal-unions-approve-agreement-on-phoenix-damages/?fbclid=IwAR2UHxGCwbMfPvbCd7f23_-CBcLujwpA-Z6lGtyxBo7jvCnhcyKSh8hBYDo

"Eight things you need to know": https://www.pipsc.ca/news-issues/phoenix-pay-system/8-things-you-need-to-know-about-phoenix-compensation-agreement

interesting.  we'll see what PSAC gets.

The impact on me has been minimal.  My wife was owed 30,000$.  Was solved recently more or less.  Luckily our finances were strong enough to weather this garbage.

5 days as overall compensation and compensation for sick leave for those affected seems fair to an extent.  it's the case by case issues that are the bigger problem.
Optio

Online Good2Golf

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #254 on: May 16, 2019, 11:38:57 »
Although a 6900% increase from the initial cost estimate is “not insignificant,” whoever thought you could design and implement a pay management system for $46 per employee should not have any place of responsibility in the organization.
:2c:

Regards
G2G

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #255 on: May 27, 2019, 16:42:01 »
More information on the Phoenix Compensation Agreement.

https://www.pipsc.ca/news-issues/phoenix-pay-system/phoenix-compensation-agreement-faqs?fbclid=IwAR1Cq5lQWC9gaUMVlz9xQPhRFaqWS8ULZcDdPcvmIAtdwFKonZGVYz4NW1Q

Of interest, members of the various unions will not get a vote  - their leadership has signed the deal as a resolution to grievances; it's not part of the collective agreements.
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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #256 on: June 13, 2019, 22:29:38 »
And the compensation agreement has been posted online: https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/topics/pay/phoenix-pay-system/damages-caused-phoenix-pay-system.html

Interest to be paid on late payments appears to be between 3.75% and 5% (bank rate plus 3%).  So, to reach the $1500 minimum to be eligible, someone will need to be out between $30-40K for one year (or proportionate amounts over a longer period of time).  Seems to be a rather steep incline, designed to minimize the amount that will actually be paid out.

Of course, there are other grounds for filing claims, but I expect the attitude of "we'll pay you when we feel like it, and nothing is our fault" will persist...
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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #257 on: June 14, 2019, 09:51:11 »
I hope that PSAC and PIPSC members remember this come October. Four years is enough time to do something more than say they’re doing something.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #258 on: June 14, 2019, 11:50:09 »
I hope that PSAC and PIPSC members remember this come October. Four years is enough time to do something more than say they’re doing something.

That would be great, however:

"In bureaucratic organizations, those closest to the customer feel least empowered."

https://www.inc.com/new-research-shows-how-damaging-your-companys-bureaucracy-is-do-this-1-thing-to-counter.html
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Online Remius

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #259 on: June 15, 2019, 22:25:22 »
I hope that PSAC and PIPSC members remember this come October. Four years is enough time to do something more than say they’re doing something.

True but they certainly remember who caused the mess.
Optio

Offline Colin P

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #260 on: June 17, 2019, 10:56:00 »
They remember that CPC started this ball rolling and that the CPC did "Work Force Adjustment" which was a mess and has mostly been undone by the Libs. I noticed a lot jokes about the Libs and corruption, overspending in the PS before I left. I can remember the visible relief when Chretien was booted by Harper as most of the PS was utterly disgusted by the corruption ongoing at the time. That changed with the Duffy affair. Most of the PS is worried about layoff under the CPC and attacks on pensions, etc. But the PS also realizes that we can't afford to spend at the rate the JT government is doing so. If the CPC gets in I hope it's with only a very slim majority, so they can't go full stupid, because basically both parties end up going full stupid in different ways.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #261 on: August 06, 2019, 16:00:02 »
Just had a new one: an email from CRA telling me that a prior year tax return had been reassessed.

Seems that the fine folks in the Pay Office made up a new T4 for me for a prior year, and sent it to CRA.

Their business process, however, does not include the step "Tell the person whose T4 you amended".

I guess the lesson learned us that every day I should log in and look at all my prior year tax forms to see if anything new has popped up.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 16:03:25 by dapaterson »
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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #262 on: August 13, 2019, 12:41:59 »
In the "but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?" department, the Chief Information Officer of the Government of Canada, tasked with developing the replacement for the Phoenix Pay System, has quit to go back to working in private industry.

https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/alex-benay-exits-as-canadas-cio-joins-ai-startup-from-ottawa/420700
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #263 on: August 13, 2019, 12:49:29 »
In the "but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?" department, the Chief Information Officer of the Government of Canada, tasked with developing the replacement for the Phoenix Pay System, has quit to go back to working in private industry.

https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/alex-benay-exits-as-canadas-cio-joins-ai-startup-from-ottawa/420700

And you thought that he was a big dummy, right? ;)
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #264 on: September 19, 2019, 08:20:21 »
About a month ago, I received a retro payment.  Naturally, no explanation of the calculations.  All I could see was that it covered a period of about eight and a half months.

After asking nicely, they sent a detailed breakdown.   Which also includes the statement that it covers that same date range of 8 1/2 months.

But wait!  The detailed calculations they provide cover a period of just over three years!  So, which is it?  "Hello, client contact centre?"
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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #265 on: September 19, 2019, 11:05:19 »
Oh, and that retro payment?  Part of the implementation of the last collective agreement.  Paid out nearly two years after the deadline the Government agreed to.  The last info I can find has the Union still pushing for compensation for that - but even that information is a year and a half old.

http://psacunion.ca/psac-outraged-delays-and-lack-information
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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #266 on: October 31, 2019, 14:45:33 »
PSAC has declared that after 810 days, all retro has been paid out.

http://psacunion.ca/two-years-late-federal-government-implements

Funny... I'm still out several thousand in retro from that time, but that's mostly tied to actings never processed... or that they reversed last time they "fixed" my file.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Phoenix Pay System - crap's Horrible
« Reply #267 on: November 07, 2019, 22:12:08 »
Awful....  :not-again:

Coroner blames Phoenix pay troubles in public servant's suicide

Linda Deschâtelets’s death by suicide might have been prevented if the flawed Phoenix pay system hadn’t led her to emotional and financial ruin, a Quebec coroner has found.

Deschâtelets died in December of 2017, at age 52. At the time she was struggling with chronic pain and massive mortgage
payments.

The fear of losing her home weighed heavily on her. In her final text message to one of her sons she said she had run out of energy and wanted to die before she lost her house in Val des Monts.

But Deschâtelets might have lived, says a report from coroner Pascale Boulay, if her employer, the Canada Revenue Agency, had shown a little empathy.

“During the final months before her death, she experienced serious financial troubles linked to the federal government’s pay system, Phoenix, which cut off her pay in a significant way, making her fear she would lose her house,” said Boulay’s report.
“A thorough analysis of this case strongly suggests that this death could have been avoided if a search for a solution to the current financial, psychological and medical situation had been made.”

Boulay found “there is no indication that management sought to meet Ms. Deschâtelets to offer her options. In addition, the lack of prompt follow-up in the processing of requests for information indicates a distressing lack of empathy for an employee who is experiencing real financial insecurity.”

Pay records “indeed show that she was living through serious financial problems and that she received irregular payments since the
beginning of October 2017,” the coroner wrote.

As well, “her numerous online applications using the form for a compensation problem, in which she expresses her fear of not being able to make her mortgage payments and says that she wants a detailed statement of account, remain unanswered.”
On top of that, she had chronic back pain and sciatica and had been missing work. She was scheduled to get an ergonomically designed work area, but this change was never made even though she waited for months.

Money troubles kept getting worse.

She ran out of paid sick leave, and her department sent her an email to explain that she had automatically been docked pay for taking sick days. “In this same email, she was also advised that in the event that she missed additional days, other amounts would be deducted. No further follow-up with her was done,” the coroner wrote.
That email came eight days before her death.

She was already deep in debt. Her credit rating was very low. And on top of everything else, she had taken out a consumer loan in 2015 to cover her mortgage payments, and the loan agreement specified that she would default on the loan if she missed a single payment. So when Phoenix problems arose, she had nowhere to turn for money.

Deschâtelets was also taking cocaine but this did not alter the fact that she genuinely risked losing her home over her financial problems, the coroner wrote.

“Given the circumstances, it is highly likely that Ms. Deschâtelets felt trapped” and ended her life “because of her belief that she would lose the house anyway. It was only a matter of time.”

The situation is “even more sad” because CRA still had advisers on site who dealt with Phoenix issues, and could meet with employees instead of making them deal with the pay centre in New Brunswick, Boulay wrote.

“The federal government does a lot of promotion of workplace wellness. Surprisingly, these wellness measures are silent on the subject of financial insecurity at work,” Boulay wrote.

CRA provided this newspaper with a statement Thursday evening writing:

“We are deeply saddened by the death of any valued member of our community and we again wish to offer our sincere condolences
to Ms. Deschâtelets’s family and loved ones.

We are carefully reviewing the coroner’s investigation report, and the recommendations made in it, and we will review our processes and approach accordingly.

The CRA cannot provide more comments on this topic at this time”

The National Standard of Canada on Psychological Safety in the Workplace, developed by the Mental Health Commission of Canada, is only voluntary for the federal government. Boulay wrote that following it “would allow for serious reflection on how to do human resources and compensation services in the federal government.

The national president of PSAC said Thursday the case illustrates the mental toll of Phoenix, where there is still a backlog of 228,000 employees with wrong paycheques.

“We fully agree with what this coroner is recommending, in making it mandatory for the federal departments to follow the Canadian standard for psychological safety in the workplace,” Chris Aylward said.

“It’s a terrible tragedy. We know. We did a cross-country tour… and we heard from our members right across the country, saying they are at the breaking point,” not only being paid the wrong amounts, but not knowing in advance what the next paycheque will be.
“We did a survey of our membership … and 76 per cent of our members said the Phoenix fiasco has affected their mental health.”
“It highlights unfortunately the stress and the mental fatigue that our members have gone through and continue to go through because of Phoenix.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/coroner-blames-phoenix-pay-troubles-in-public-servants-suicide
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon