Author Topic: Threat of possible US Civil War  (Read 23031 times)

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Offline Jmarcha8

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Threat of possible US Civil War
« on: November 04, 2016, 17:15:14 »
With the possibility of a U.S. Civil War more likely now than usual, would Canada be involved in any way and what role would they be involved in?

I'm asking because I am a dual citizen and looking to join the Canadian reserves.


Online Remius

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2016, 17:20:50 »
Really?  Is there some sort of intel other than the ramblings of a few extreme views that give you that idea? 

There won't be a civil war.  Maybe civil unrest in some areas or a few fringe elements doing something stupid.

Our role will be what our role is today.
Optio

Offline Jmarcha8

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2016, 17:35:04 »
The concern is that civilian trust of both the government and authorities such as police are at a low point.  It is of course now too early to tell, but it may be too early until it actually happens.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2016, 17:39:36 »
With the possibility of a U.S. Civil War more likely now than usual, would Canada be involved in any way and what role would they be involved in?

I'm asking because I am a dual citizen and looking to join the Canadian reserves.

Canada would be sent down south to disarm the US military & citizens and do peacekeeping operations until Neil Degrasse Tyson and General James Mattis are ready to take office.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 17:45:38 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 18:11:46 »
It is of course now too early to tell, but it may be too early until it actually happens.

Mr. Trump sent a lot of angry tweets to his followers when President Obama was re-elected in 2012,
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/18/politics/donald-trump-rigged-vote-twitter-2012/
"We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!"

CNN: "Sound familiar? Trump called 2012 vote a 'total sham' "




« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 18:19:54 by mariomike »

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2016, 18:42:37 »
Adding this to provide more grist for this mill ...
Since the thread appears to be headed down the road of starry-eyed optimism, here's an interesting piece from, admittedly, a source that doesn't sound all that authoritative, but if we're willing to be a bit open minded, it's a piece that appears to quote some of the right people:

"6 Reasons Why A New Civil War Is Possible And Terrifying"

From the piece:
Quote
(...)
6.  The Beginning Looks A Lot Like Where We Are Right Now
(...)
5.  The Violence Could Start With Farms Choking The Cities
(...)
4.  The Revolution Will Plagiarize ISIS's Tactics*
(...)
3.  There Will Be Hundreds of Sides
(...)
2.  Decades of Military Spending Will Bite Us In The ***
(...)
1.  The Internet Will Make It Even Bloodier
(...)
The same source also posted this not-too-shabby summary of how ISIS/ISIL/Daesh came to be.

* - On #4, I would have softened it to "could" instead of "will", but that's just me ...
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2016, 00:51:47 »
Most people have families to care for and jobs to do, so the best form of "Civil War" would be a vigorous dose of "Irish Democracy". Imagine large swaths of the country essential in a "work to rule" situation vis a vi their government institutions, making it difficult if not impossible for the Diktat of Washington bureaucrats or "Executive orders" to be carried out.

The mass failure of people to join Obamacare (and the leakage of people who are reacting to discovering they were taken with unusable plans, massive deductibles and rapidly escalating premiums) is a foretaste of what the real "civil war" will look like. Another interesting model could be the description of the First Intifada in the book The Sling and the Stone, where a leaderless, "bottom up" revolt using media and paper based communications, and forbidding armed conflict against the Israelis, managed to achieve victory.

So the next "Battle of Bull Run" may be snarled lines at the DMV and crowds of people doing things that inconvenience the powers that be on social media. After all, the Left has been using lawfare, the "march through the institutions", media and Political correctness to attack the American people for a generation (arguably a lot longer), so the response isn't necessarily or even obviously armed rebellion.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2016, 01:01:00 »
The concern is that civilian trust of both the government and authorities such as police are at a low point.  It is of course now too early to tell, but it may be too early until it actually happens.

I hardly think a US civil war is likely at this time. Life is to cozy for to many people in the USA. Yes, like someone else said, fringe elements may do idiotic things and civil unrest may ensue. But I hardly think a large enough percent of Americans are willing to die just because Clinton or Trump get in.

Also as an American citizen, cant you be drafted? They still have that right? I suspect as a dual citizen that may be something to be cognizant of. As per Canada's role, I have no clue.. I think if Clinton gets in, we may be more pro establishment then if trump gets in.. but I have no proof to that. A civil war aint nice, I have a friend in the III% Militia down south, another friend ex military who was a pastor as well etc etc and they all think it will be business as usual after the elections with just the usual whining. I hope they are right.

Abdullah

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2016, 11:32:32 »
I hope you are right as well.

The problem is people are feeling they are being exploited and are trying to take steps to end it. The TEA Party movement was essentially the bourgeois response, using political activism and electoral politics. Despite some rather considerable success in knocking off incumbents through the process of primaries and sweeping success in the mid terms, the politicians they elected failed to carry through with the promises to the electorate. Donald Trump's brand of nationalism and populism is the next stage, and obviously having a huge effect (and much like the Brexit, it is a huge raised middle finger to the various political, bureaucratic, crony capitalist, academic and media "elites" who control much of the wealth, power and information in modern America).

If they win today (08 Nov 2016), then they will have 4 to 8 years to assess if their concerns are being addressed. If the general feeling is "no", then we evolve past Donald Trump into some pretty scary territory. A Clinton victory simply advances the timetable.

So the real issue is how hard the "powers that be" are willing to dig in their heels. They may feel protected and insulated from the population, but then again, the various ruling parties across the Arab world probably felt secure right before the "Arab Spring" began as well. I imagine President Viktor Yanukovych wasn't too perturbed when the Maidan square protests began either...Some sort of tipping point or preference cascade against the current situation is what it takes to make things happen. At that point, we can only hope the nature of what sorts of "things happen" isn't leaving everything in flames.

Edit to add:

This is hardly new. I stopped by a local use book store and the first thing I saw in the dollar bin was "Killing Ground: The Canadian Civil War" by "Ellis Portal" (published in 1968). The blurb tells me this is a ripping yarn about the Canadians fighting against Quebec separatists, and it certainly seems SFNal to todays eyes; Units like the Queens's Own Rifles are on the Order of Battle and (if I am reading this right) at some point in the book there will be an airborne assault on Quebec City.

Civil unrest and civil war is a distinct possibility if there are truly fundamental changes in the social, political or economic conditions of a nation. I'm pretty sure the Progressives have such changes in mind with their talk of fundamental transformation, but first of all, there is a massive amount of inertia to overcome in a nation of 300 million people, and secondly, the changes in demographics, economics, technology and social structures are not running in the directions that either the Progressives or the Conservatives have foreseen or even understand.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 19:53:32 by Thucydides »
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Jmarcha8

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2016, 15:46:07 »
I hardly think a US civil war is likely at this time. Life is to cozy for to many people in the USA. Yes, like someone else said, fringe elements may do idiotic things and civil unrest may ensue. But I hardly think a large enough percent of Americans are willing to die just because Clinton or Trump get in.

Also as an American citizen, cant you be drafted? They still have that right? I suspect as a dual citizen that may be something to be cognizant of. As per Canada's role, I have no clue.. I think if Clinton gets in, we may be more pro establishment then if trump gets in.. but I have no proof to that. A civil war aint nice, I have a friend in the III% Militia down south, another friend ex military who was a pastor as well etc etc and they all think it will be business as usual after the elections with just the usual whining. I hope they are right.

Abdullah

I am joining the Canadian Reserves so I think it would be hard for them to do.  Not that I am against serving.

Offline Jmarcha8

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2016, 23:15:29 »
I hardly think a US civil war is likely at this time. Life is to cozy for to many people in the USA. Yes, like someone else said, fringe elements may do idiotic things and civil unrest may ensue. But I hardly think a large enough percent of Americans are willing to die just because Clinton or Trump get in.

Also as an American citizen, cant you be drafted? They still have that right? I suspect as a dual citizen that may be something to be cognizant of. As per Canada's role, I have no clue.. I think if Clinton gets in, we may be more pro establishment then if trump gets in.. but I have no proof to that. A civil war aint nice, I have a friend in the III% Militia down south, another friend ex military who was a pastor as well etc etc and they all think it will be business as usual after the elections with just the usual whining. I hope they are right.

Abdullah

I just checked and apparently I was supposed to register for the draft.

I was born in the states to Canadian Parents (Father was naturalized), and was taken to Canada when I was 2, living here since. 

I am thirty now and apparently too old to register, which does cause some issues.  I'll have to take it up with the US Consulate to address it.

Thanks for bringing it up.

Regards,

Joseph Marchand

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2016, 23:23:09 »
I just checked and apparently I was supposed to register for the draft.

I was born in the states to Canadian Parents (Father was naturalized), and was taken to Canada when I was 2, living here since. 

I am thirty now and apparently too old to register, which does cause some issues.  I'll have to take it up with the US Consulate to address it.

Thanks for bringing it up.

Regards,

Joseph Marchand

Oh, well I am glad you looked into it for your sake. Hopefully it is a non-issue for you and it all works out. Only reason I knew about it is because of my American Step Father, he would chat about it quite often.

Good luck getting into the reserves.

Abdullah

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2016, 16:55:49 »
Yes, like someone else said, fringe elements may do idiotic things and civil unrest may ensue.

Watching the protests and reading the so called "Bird Dogging" emails on Wikileaks makes it pretty clear "who" is whipping up the fringe elements. (Note: Democrats used the term "Bird Dogging" to refer to Dems going to Trump rallies and trying to incite violence, which could then be reported on the Legacy media but spun as being done by Trump voters and supporters).

I frankly can't think of a more counter productive activity. The optics look terrible and fence sitters or people who were less receptive to the President Elect will be more likely inclined to move in his direction as a reaction against the violence rather than fall in line behind the Democrats. I'm sure working class white Democrat voters in the Rustbelt States will also take kindly to being maligned non stop as "Racists" and wallowing in "White Privilege" by the rioters as well.

However, this does follow the 3 laws of SJW's (especially 2 & 3):

SJW's always lie
SJW's always project
SJW's always double down

So go ahead Dems, and double down for the next 4 years. I'm sure you will create a groundswell of new followers, just not for the people you expect.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2016, 18:13:43 »
Are not these the same folks who were predicting violence in the face of a Trump defeat?
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2016, 19:53:43 »
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2016, 20:43:55 »
I just checked and apparently I was supposed to register for the draft.

I was born in the states to Canadian Parents (Father was naturalized), and was taken to Canada when I was 2, living here since. 

I am thirty now and apparently too old to register, which does cause some issues.  I'll have to take it up with the US Consulate to address it.


While the Selective Service System may accept a legitimate excuse that your failure to register "was not knowing and willful", the Internal Revenue Service is likely less forgiving in a failure to fulfill the obligation of every US citizen (or permanent resident) to file income tax returns regardless of their country of residence.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2016, 21:16:26 »
So go ahead Dems, and double down for the next 4 years.

Wall Street Journal says, "Anti-Trump Protests Likely to Continue".
http://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-trump-protests-turn-violent-in-oregon-1478885999

There have been six Republican presidents during my lifetime. Seven counting Mr. Trump.

I can't think of a single Republican president-elect who faced protests like these before inauguration. Only Mr. Trump.

Perhaps they are more anti-Trump, than anti-Republican?

« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 21:23:43 by mariomike »

Offline cupper

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2016, 21:37:20 »
Look, the average American really doesn't have the attention span to carry off a civil war. Come February the Super Bowl will be here, and they will all forget that there was a time before the Benevolent Supreme Leader Donald Trump, may he be blessed to rule over us for eternity. :bowdown:
It's hard to win an argument against a smart person, it's damned near impossible against a stupid person.

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2016, 21:43:17 »
Wall Street Journal says, "Anti-Trump Protests Likely to Continue".
http://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-trump-protests-turn-violent-in-oregon-1478885999


.....And these are the people who were calling Trump everything under the sun, from being Racist to being too unpredictable and a bully.  It appears they can't see their reflections in the mirror.  They called those who voted for Trump the scum of the earth and uneducated.  Looks like they are the scum and uneducated.  Most don't even have a clue of how their electorial system is set up, and that is why they are whining and rioting.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2016, 22:04:27 »
Most don't even have a clue of how their electorial system is set up, and that is why they are whining and rioting.

As an outsider, neither do I. My math is pretty rusty, but there is some explanation in the National Post.
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-dont-blame-clinton-for-losing-she-got-the-most-votes

"By the time all of the votes are in, several days hence, her lead is projected to exceed two million."

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2016, 22:40:35 »
It seems that Soros funded leftists are behind the unrest. Funny how the left complained about Russian interference.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/soros-funded-orgs-behind-violent-anti-trump-protests-across-america/


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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2016, 22:52:08 »
Wall Street Journal says, "Anti-Trump Protests Likely to Continue".
http://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-trump-protests-turn-violent-in-oregon-1478885999

There have been six Republican presidents during my lifetime. Seven counting Mr. Trump.

I can't think of a single Republican president-elect who faced protests like these before inauguration. Only Mr. Trump.

Perhaps they are more anti-Trump, than anti-Republican?
Perhaps it's because the rise of the overgrown children who've never been denied, never lost anything, who've been given recompense for merely existing rather than striving and never had their narrow views challenged is a more recent phenomenon.  I can't recall there being such a thing as "safe spaces" "trigger warnings" "SJWs" "campus garbage babies" etc, even during the most recent Republican administration.  The phenomenon seems to have coalesced purely during the Obama years.

Let them riot.  They'll only reinforce the choice made by the pro-Trumps and make those sitting on the fence wonder.  Besides, rioters in Portland Oregon destroying Portland Oregon, one of the bluest places in the USA is like scoring repeated own goals while beating up your own goal keeper with a rock filled sock.  It makes no sense and everyone with two brain cells who's watching the action can figure out that the protestors are utter cretins.  All of that merely cements Trump's victory and shows why he won.  If they had a smidgen of intelligence, they would figure it out.  The fact that they don't speaks volumes  :facepalm:

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2016, 23:28:14 »
Let them riot.  They'll only reinforce the choice made by the pro-Trumps and make those sitting on the fence wonder.  Besides, rioters in Portland Oregon destroying Portland Oregon, one of the bluest places in the USA is like scoring repeated own goals while beating up your own goal keeper with a rock filled sock.  It makes no sense and everyone with two brain cells who's watching the action can figure out that the protestors are utter cretins.  All of that merely cements Trump's victory and shows why he won.  If they had a smidgen of intelligence, they would figure it out.  The fact that they don't speaks volumes  :facepalm:

I wouldn't put the riot and the damage on the protesters, but more on the usual suspects. The few agitators who's only reason for being is to create mayhem and anarchy. These are the same group of brain dead morons that show up at the G20 summits and set fires, smash windows, loot stores and overturn cars. They are few in number, but their actions far outweigh anything the majority of peaceful protesters want to achieve.

This can't be attributed to Clinton backers or organizers. These f$@kwads were around long before this campaign season, and will go on well past the next few election cycles.

My beef with the millennials is that they want to detach themselves from the establishment and find alternate means of creating change, be it sit-ins like the Occupy movement, or use social media to influence change. Once they clue in that the only effective means of making change is to use the electoral process, look out. Once they realize that they outnumber Boomers, and will have a long period of control, we will be looking at a different world. But they need to get their heads out of their @sses first.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2016, 23:39:08 »
With the possibility of a U.S. Civil War more likely now than usual, would Canada be involved in any way and what role would they be involved in?

I'm asking because I am a dual citizen and looking to join the Canadian reserves.

They had their Civil War 1861-5... some say they haven't stopped fighting it yet, though.
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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2016, 00:17:09 »

My beef with the millennials is that they want to detach themselves from the establishment and find alternate means of creating change, be it sit-ins like the Occupy movement, or use social media to influence change. Once they clue in that the only effective means of making change is to use the electoral process, look out. Once they realize that they outnumber Boomers, and will have a long period of control, we will be looking at a different world. But they need to get their heads out of their @sses first.

Until, hopefully,  they realize that there's no free lunch and no one is going to feed and shelter them. They'll get jobs or start a business and start to pick the lock that the socialist academia has put on their brains.

Like the Gen X & early Y's that gave us PEOTUS.  8)
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2016, 00:37:08 »
"By the time all of the votes are in, several days hence, her lead is projected to exceed two million."

Coyne makes the usual error: assuming that the candidates would campaign the same in a winner-take-all FPTP vote as they do for electoral votes.

The popular vote share for US president is irrelevant for the same reason the popular vote share for parliament is irrelevant here: there are many (51) distinct elections, not a single election.  Running up a large vote surplus in CA doesn't extinguish the voices of much smaller states.  It is the United States, not the United Voters.
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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2016, 06:27:59 »
I wouldn't put the riot and the damage on the protesters, but more on the usual suspects ...
Sorry - if we're going to hold one side's feet to the fire over "the sins of the few idiots", we have to do the same to the other side. 

Google "diversity of tactics" to find out how a lot of protest groups (like Occupy) refuse to condemn or prevent their small group of idiots from damaging property during protests.

To anyone from any side allowing idiots to be idiots:  the standard you walk past, is the standard you accept.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2016, 08:54:38 »
Perhaps it's because the rise of the overgrown children who've never been denied,

Times change fast. Not so sure people do. I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to remember the race riots and anti-draft protests in the US in the 1960's. I wasn't there, I saw it on TV.

But, I can't think of a single Republican president-elect who people rioted over before they were even sworn in. 

Incidentally, I'm as sickened by protestors and rioters and looters as anyone. Probably more so as a ( retired ) member of the city emergency services.

It was only a matter of time. Protester shot at the anti-Trump riots in Portland.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/11/12/one-shot-at-anti-trump-protest-in-portland.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl
"Police say the shooter got into an argument with one of the demonstrators on the Morrison Bridge before getting out of his vehicle and firing several shots."

Running up a large vote surplus in CA doesn't extinguish the voices of much smaller states. 

Clinton's Popular-Vote Lead Will Grow, and Grow, and Grow
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/clintons-popular-vote-lead-will-grow-and-grow/507455/
"Millions of mail-in and absentee ballots haven’t been counted yet. They won’t change anything, though."

They wonder why so many people don't even bother voting.

Perhaps that is why CalExit is gaining popularity?
"The campaign argues that California suffers under federal overregulation, that the state contributes more federal tax than it receives in federal funding, that the state feels isolated from political power in Washington, D.C., and that there is a wide gap between the political and cultural differences of California and the rest of the country."
http://www.yescalifornia.org/

From what I understand, California has about as much chance of independence as the GTA does from the province.




« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 10:03:52 by mariomike »

Offline cupper

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2016, 11:48:11 »
Perhaps that is why CalExit is gaining popularity?
"The campaign argues that California suffers under federal overregulation, that the state contributes more federal tax than it receives in federal funding, that the state feels isolated from political power in Washington, D.C., and that there is a wide gap between the political and cultural differences of California and the rest of the country."
http://www.yescalifornia.org/

From what I understand, California has about as much chance of independence as the GTA does from the province.

They may not have to secede from the union. Some reports indicate that the next big earthquake will separate the state from the rest of the country anyway. All they need to do is start fracking the hell out of the San Andreas fault.  ;D
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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2016, 11:51:34 »
From what I understand, California has about as much chance of independence as the GTA does from the province.
With the major difference being the rest of the US wants  California to stay....   :pop:

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2016, 12:10:16 »
With the major difference being the rest of the US wants  California to stay....   :pop:

No need for your popcorn smiley, we already have three pages on that,

City-state provinces in Canada? Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=124115.50

"Political observers say the change is unlikely to happen, given it would require the approval of Parliament and seven of the provinces, with at least 50 per cent of the population."
Toronto Star March 16, 2010

From the Electoral Reform discussion, "Poor, rural and small town Canada gets paid by urban Canada, simple as that."






« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 12:13:42 by mariomike »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2016, 12:59:01 »

"Political observers say the change is unlikely to happen, given it would require the approval of Parliament and seven of the provinces, with at least 50 per cent of the population."
Toronto Star March 16, 2010


Isn't 50% of the population in the GTA?    [:D
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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2016, 13:14:30 »
Isn't 50% of the population in the GTA?    [:D

Sometimes it feels like it!  :)

I read this,

"The Greater Toronto Area (GTA) is projected to be the fastest growing region of the province, with its population increasing by over 2.8 million, or 42.9 per cent, to reach almost 9.5 million by 2041. The GTA’s share of provincial population is projected to rise from 48.0 per cent in 2015 to 52.7 per cent in 2041."

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2016, 14:26:04 »
While the Selective Service System may accept a legitimate excuse that your failure to register "was not knowing and willful", the Internal Revenue Service is likely less forgiving in a failure to fulfill the obligation of every US citizen (or permanent resident) to file income tax returns regardless of their country of residence.

Actually, Tax authorities are generally not out to put you in jail if you act in good faith, they have quite a few programs in place that allow people amnesty if they come forward. 

But regardless, I have been filing taxes for the last while anyways.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2016, 14:32:32 »
I wouldn't put the riot and the damage on the protesters, but more on the usual suspects. The few agitators who's only reason for being is to create mayhem and anarchy. These are the same group of brain dead morons that show up at the G20 summits and set fires, smash windows, loot stores and overturn cars. They are few in number, but their actions far outweigh anything the majority of peaceful protesters want to achieve.

This can't be attributed to Clinton backers or organizers. These f$@kwads were around long before this campaign season, and will go on well past the next few election cycles.

My beef with the millennials is that they want to detach themselves from the establishment and find alternate means of creating change, be it sit-ins like the Occupy movement, or use social media to influence change. Once they clue in that the only effective means of making change is to use the electoral process, look out. Once they realize that they outnumber Boomers, and will have a long period of control, we will be looking at a different world. But they need to get their heads out of their @sses first.

I agree to an extent, I do think (peaceful) protesting should be encouraged though, it may at least give leaders pause and is a legitimate part of the process. 

I am of pissed that Colin Kaepernick did not vote.  Heck, I would have at least respected him going to the poll and intentionally spoiling his ballot, at least that is doing something, like having a "no" vote.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2016, 17:12:52 »
I have to chuckle that the anti-gun ownership side is threatening “direct action” and other threats against the side with the most guns. Would not end well.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2016, 17:35:27 »
I have to chuckle that the anti-gun ownership side is threatening “direct action” and other threats against the side with the most guns. Would not end well.

From what I have read on here, acquiring guns in the US - one way or the other - isn't too difficult. Can't see it becoming any less convenient under Mr. Trump.
Maybe a civil war is inevitable, helps get rid of the bad blood? Nobody alive has witnessed post-election rioting like this. Just have to wait and see.
Not like there's nobody getting shot there now. I like to follow the emergency services action: Five people killed & at least 32 others were wounded in shootings in Chicago over the weekend. But, the Cubs won!  :)
Nothing new about bloodbaths in the US.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 18:12:12 by mariomike »

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2016, 10:17:34 »
They could acquire guns if they don't have a criminal record, but they still be out gunned and out aimed and out of ammo before the other side is.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2016, 10:24:54 »
Doesn't sound too difficult,

Gun laws in the United States by state
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2016, 10:35:22 »
I agree to an extent, I do think (peaceful) protesting should be encouraged though, it may at least give leaders pause and is a legitimate part of the process.
That bit in yellow being key.  At least Trump has told his folks publicly to stop being idiots* (how well that'll work is a different question, but at least he said it). 

Democrats on violence/property damage?  I stand to be corrected, but so far ... :crickets:

* - Caveat:  I'm linking to CBS, so feel free to base the truthiness of the claim on your read of CBS's bias or lack thereof.   ;D
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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2016, 13:54:47 »
Doesn't sound too difficult,

Gun laws in the United States by state
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

It be a steep learning curve, plus there won't be any ammo left for them to buy.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=liberals+shoot+guns

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2016, 16:09:18 »
Hopefully, there will be no violence. Or, at least bloodshed and property damage will be kept to a minimum.

However, the cost of policing anti-Trump protests / riots has become an increasing concern.

eg: Portland, Oregon reports police overtime at anti-Trump demonstrations has already soared well past $500,000.


 

Offline cavalryman

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2016, 16:16:18 »
However, the cost of policing anti-Trump protests / riots has become an increasing concern.

eg: Portland, Oregon reports police overtime at anti-Trump demonstrations has already soared well past $500,000.
Portland's finances suffering because of snowflake riots could be seen as a win-win proposition, considering it's a deep blue city, i.e. watching the other side score repeated own goals  >:D

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2016, 16:25:59 »
Portland's finances suffering because of snowflake riots could be seen as a win-win proposition, considering it's a deep blue city, i.e. watching the other side score repeated own goals  >:D

Post election anti-Trump protests / riots are in many cities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_Donald_Trump#Post-election_protests

Even Canadian cities, including Ottawa,
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/city-hall-blog-a-trump-visit-to-ottawa-isnt-like-an-obama-love-in-for-police

Even if there are no Personal Injuries or Property Damage, the overtime costs of policing these protests / riots is staggering.

Not to mention the inconvenience caused by civil disobedience. Blocking roads etc.

New York mayor Bill de Blasio calls for protests against Donald Trump
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/new-york-mayor-bill-de-blasio-donald-trump-protests-take-away-power-a7420486.html


« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 08:40:44 by mariomike »

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2016, 10:17:58 »
Hopefully, there will be no violence. Or, at least bloodshed and property damage will be kept to a minimum.

However, the cost of policing anti-Trump protests / riots has become an increasing concern.

eg: Portland, Oregon reports police overtime at anti-Trump demonstrations has already soared well past $500,000.

See he is already creating jobs and energizing the economy  [lol:

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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2016, 17:10:46 »
I suppose the riots constitute "snowstorms".
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2018, 13:53:19 »
Not sure if this topic has been discussed elsewhere, but thought it could provoke some interesting dialogue.  Below is a link to a rather alarmist in nature article about the growing potential for a 2nd US Civil War and potential implications for Canada.

 https://thewalrus.ca/americas-next-civil-war/



I would rather be in a boat with a drink on the rocks than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2018, 13:58:03 »
Not sure if this topic has been discussed elsewhere,

Threat of possible US Civil War 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=124515.0
OP: "With the possibility of a U.S. Civil War more likely now than usual, would Canada be involved in any way and what role would they be involved in?"
2 pages.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2018, 14:08:14 »
Sorry, my initial search didn't receive any direct hits.  Can I delete this and re-post?
I would rather be in a boat with a drink on the rocks than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2018, 23:42:47 »
The story in the United States is a replay of a very old story. The History of the Peloponnesian Wars has a similar event, if on a smaller scale:

Quote
Corcyra’s revolution in 427 BC, the fifth year of the Peloponnesian War, is a paradigm of revolutionary logic. Thucydides tells us that the citizens’ divisions had been of the garden-variety economic kind. Its Assembly had taken an ordinary vote on an ordinary measure. But the vote’s losers, refusing to accept political defeat, brought criminal charges against their opponents’ leader. By thus criminalizing differences over public policy, by using political power to hurt their opponents, they gave the revolutionary spiral its first turn. The spiral might have stopped when the accused was acquitted. But, he, instead of letting bygones be bygones, convinced the assembly to fine those who had brought the charges. After all, they had to be taught not to do such things again. The assembly approved the fine. But the second use of political power to hurt opponents gave the revolutionary spiral its second turn. Had the original wrongdoers paid up, the problem might have ended right there. Instead, outraged, they gave it the third push, bursting into the Assembly and murdering him. That ended all private haven from political strife. Civil war spiraled into mutual destruction, until the city was well-nigh depopulated.

This article lays out the possibility in the United States, and where the danger of a civil war comes from: the political, academic, media and bureaucratic classes which refuse to accept they may be disempowered by the voters and taxpaying citizens.

We may see something similar here, the election of Doug Ford in Ontario and the Coalition Avenir Québec shows some of the signs of a populist movement away from the "Laurentian Elites", and globally we see many attempts to push back against populism.

The author holds out a small hope: If voters continue to punish the authoritarian "elites" in the 2018 Mid Terms, the 2019 Canadian General Election and in other places, then the "elites" will be forced into a defensive posture and have less ability to continue preying on taxpayers. However, cornered animals are perhaps the most dangerous....
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 23:48:58 by Thucydides »
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2018, 09:25:27 »
This article lays out the possibility in the United States, and where the danger of a civil war comes from: the political, academic, media and bureaucratic classes which refuse to accept they may be disempowered by the voters and taxpaying citizens.
I'm a long-time fan of Angelo Codevilla and his insightful writings on International Relations.  However he's been quiet recently, except for occasions where he has 'strayed' from his SME field to tilt at windmills on things like political correctness.  C'est la vie.


That said, I whole-heartedly agree with his sentiment:
Quote
The logic is rooted in disdain, but not so much of any of the supposed inferiors’ features or habits. If it were, the deplored could change their status by improving. But the Progressives deplore the “deplorables” not to improve them, but to feel good about themselves. Hating people for what they are and because it feels good to hate them, is hate in its unalloyed form
….. while disagreeing with the labels;  neither side has cornered the market on dishonourable behaviours. 

Perhaps this is the reason for his indifferent,  "in our revolution, as in others, which side first transgressed civility’s canons matters only historically."  This, while acknowledging but dismissing Trump's role in increasingly hostile narratives:  "Donald Trump was out of central casting—seemingly a caricature of what the ruling class said about its opponents.  But the words he spoke were less significant than that he spoke with angry contempt for the ruling class." 

Indeed, for both sides (whether via Twitter or collectively lying to Congress to block a nomination), "truth comes to be what serves to increase fellow partisans’ animus against socio-political opponents, and words to mean neither more nor less than what serves the speaker at any given time."

As such, given both sides' public lamentations, "cornered animals are perhaps the most dangerous...." is applicable to both parties, and possibly the collateral damage people in the middle who are susceptible to the manipulations of the more extreme.



ps - I personally find him blaming universities for the hatred to be laughable.  I think a growing number people see them as little more than an irrelevant cushy place to hide people who claim 'feminist interpretive dance' is some legitimate field of research.  But then, I encouraged my children to work for a living -- either through a college where they could learn an employable respectable trade, or directly.  YMMV

Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2018, 09:59:24 »
I found myself thinking back to the 1960s, a decade of turmoil and political unrest on both sides of the border. Back then much of the unrest seemed to have originated on the left which rebelled against the rampant materialism - at least as they saw it - of the 1950s. Public order had deteriorated to such an extent that well into the 1970s much of our force structure planning was based on being able to assist the civil authority in containing one major and one minor riot in two different areas of the country at the same time.

The situation, causes and effects may be different now, but at least in the US there seems to be enough dissatisfaction at both ends of the political spectrum to keep the authorities worried, and the pundits chattering away. I don't know if the term "civil war" is one I would have used. The situation seems to be more akin to stage one of revolutionary warfare, except that the rebels are of many causes. Perhaps the solution is more political and social than one for law enforcement and, heaven forbid, the military. May an attack of mass laryngitis descend on the rabble rousers, whatever their persuasion, long enough to allow people to cool down.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2018, 12:51:05 »
I think it highly unlikely there will be a civil war over social issues in the US unless a "Permanent X Majority" really does emerge - because that "majority" will probably be only a few percentage points above 50%.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2018, 23:43:11 »
The situation, causes and effects may be different now, but at least in the US there seems to be enough dissatisfaction at both ends of the political spectrum to keep the authorities worried, and the pundits chattering away. I don't know if the term "civil war" is one I would have used. The situation seems to be more akin to stage one of revolutionary warfare, except that the rebels are of many causes. Perhaps the solution is more political and social than one for law enforcement and, heaven forbid, the military. May an attack of mass laryngitis descend on the rabble rousers, whatever their persuasion, long enough to allow people to cool down.

Sadly, I think we have slipped into "Bleeding Kansas" territory. We have already seen acts of political violence, such as BLM assassinating 5 police officers, James Hodgkinson attempting to assassinate Republican lawmakers at a charity baseball practice, Eric Clanton striking up to seven people on the head with a bike lock (a potentially lethal blow), Rene A. Boucher attaching Senator Paul with such force that several of the Senator's ribs were broken....and continuing calls for violence from Democrats like Maxine Walters.

At some point, people are not going to sit passively and let themselves or their property be attacked, spinning the cycle to another level.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2018, 00:19:58 »
I've considered the possibility a legitimately increasing risk within the next twenty years ever since I read Luttwak's Coup d'Etat: A Practical Handbook. As was described to me by a friend who once ran for a minor government office in his home state, the Untied States of America is the result of taking the core features from each of a monarchy, a republic, and a democracy - each of which form one of the three branches of the government. The US is merely a meta-stable state, and well, certain politicians and notable figures are quite clearly functionally equivalent to a mathematical strange attractor.

The only real question I have is whether or not the equilibrium state within this particular system is one which external observers are willing to accept.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2018, 08:56:18 »
Revolutions were a lifesaver for me when I was doing my history degree, I've got a lousy memory and they gave me some good milestones to work from, hence I'm quite fond of them in a twisted fashion.

I like this book  'The Anatomy of Revolution', which gives a hint of some measures you can use related to the relative likelihood of a revolt breaking out based on a review of some revolutions in the past. As noted, however, America rarely follows any rule book:

"According to Brinton, while "we must not expect our revolutions to be identical" (p. 226), three of the four (the English, French and Russian) began "in hope and moderation", reached "a crisis in a reign of terror", and ended "in something like dictatorship—Cromwell, Bonaparte, Stalin". The exception is the American Revolution, which "does not quite follow this pattern" (p. 24)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Revolution
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2018, 12:08:48 »
Neither did the 1688 revolution mount to terror or end in dictatorship.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.