Author Topic: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad  (Read 32853 times)

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Offline FSTO

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #75 on: December 13, 2018, 10:29:58 »
The Norwegians have released a 3D representation of the collision.

https://www.vgtv.no/video/168039/se-den-unike-3d-videoen-av-da-knm-helge-ingstad-krasjet?jwsource=cl

Offline Uzlu

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2018, 08:25:25 »
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Underwater VIDEO Reveals HUGE Damage to 'Torn Apart' Norwegian Frigate

Norway's Defence Ministry has released underwater footage showing, for the first time, the extent of the damage to its frigate KNM Helge Ingstad, which sank after colliding with an oil tanker erroneously taken for an immobile object.

The footage, uploaded to Dropbox due to temporary website failures, was taken by a marine diving unit (MDK) normally used for planting and disarming underwater mines, ammunition and bombs. Its members have been diving around the mostly sunken wreckage of the frigate for weeks, removing ammunition, weapons and other hazardous material.

Previously, the damage to the hull of the frigate was believed to be a long gash in the starboard side. The footage taken from the depth of the Hjelte Fjord, where the vessel lies half-submerged, indicated that the damage is much worse than thought. The gash was estimated at around 45 metres long and eight metres high. By contrast, the tanker only suffered minor damage and is expected to become operative again by the end of December.

The video shows cabins and rooms smashed, flooring torn up and ventilation fans hanging from what's left of ceilings. The footage also shows what used to be the vessel's accommodation area, sleeping quarters, machine rooms and a generator room.

"It's really something to see one of our frigates lying under water", Commander Bengt Berdal, the leader of MDK, told Norwegian broadcaster NRK. "When we see the hull torn apart in this way, you can only imagine what it was like for those on board".

Berdal called it "sheer luck" that all 137 people on board the frigate survived the collision, with only a few sustaining minor injuries before successfully being evacuated in the early hours of 8 November.

Meanwhile, Rolf Ole Eriksen, former accident preparedness official for oil company Norske Shell and now a maritime security consultant, has penned a searing commentary in the newspaper Aftenposten. In Eriksen's own words, "only a miracle averted a gigantic catastrophe that had potential for large loss of life, fire, explosions and extensive pollution". The frigate was returning to its home port at Haakonsvern in Bergen after participating in NATO's huge drill Trident Juncture around Trondheim and was carrying weapons, ammunition, missiles and helicopter oil in addition to its fuel.

Eriksen was highly critical of the preliminary report released by Norway's accident investigation commission, venturing that the investigators were downplaying the severity of the collision between a fixture of the Norwegian Navy and fully loaded oil tanker, and clouding the responsibility. According to Eriksen, the responsibility lies with the crew on the bridge of the KNM Helge Ingstad, which the report was "under-communicating", he claimed. The frigate was sailing at a high speed of 17-18 knots, with its crew oblivious of their own whereabouts or the appearance of the tanker, which was sailing out of the Sture terminal in Øygarden northwest of Bergen.

"With its top modern radar and navigational equipment on board, the frigate was capable of following every movement of all vessels in the area", Eriksen wrote.

A more detailed and conclusive report may take months to be released. Meanwhile, the frigate lies mostly underwater. Around 350 people are now working every day in connection with the salvage of the frigate.

Commander Berdal calls the divers' work "challenging" and dependent on good weather. So far, the salvaging mission has been delayed several times by storms. The vessel won't be raised until 25 December at the earliest. The collision has cost the Norwegian Navy billions of kronor and resulted in the nation's maritime defence being greatly reduced.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201812171070749438-norway-frigate-damage-video/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peQjN0LSsy8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfGVlpapvb8

Offline Colin P

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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2019, 16:21:58 »
Thanks Colin,

Interesting analysis; would be interested to know the rationale into pushing her aground (as they seemed to be upright and fairly level when abandoning ship previously).  From the voice recordings, sounded more like they ran aground in a panic after getting run over by the big tanker they sailed in front of, which makes more sense if they had lost propulsion.  Would have thought they would have towed her alongside the jetty at the fuel station to stabilize it, but easy to play arm chair admiral I guess.

Offline Colin P

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Offline Colin P

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Offline daftandbarmy

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Offline FJAG

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2019, 00:54:54 »
I'm not a sailor but that's a sad thing to watch. Amazing what a few moments of bad decisions can bring about.

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Offline Colin P

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2019, 10:11:18 »
Not enough money in the world....  :o

for commercial divers this is a nice job, shallow water, clear, clean, no bodies and your not swimming in a sewage pond.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2019, 11:19:07 »
https://navaltoday.com/2019/02/26/operation-to-lift-sunken-norwegian-frigate-gets-underway/

HNoMS Helge Ingstad is expected to be onboard the submersible barge “Boa barge 33” by Thursday or Friday, the navy said. The entire operation is expected to be completed by the end of the weekend.

The schedule of the delicate operation could still be affected by the weather, the navy noted.

Live feed of salvage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iynqr4FaJK4&feature=share
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 14:24:21 by Colin P »

Offline CloudCover

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2019, 17:05:37 »
"Operation planing will be based on a great amount of data and extensive calculation, the navy said." Same as the harbour approach.  :whistle:
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #86 on: February 27, 2019, 11:01:08 »
She is up, the latest live youtube stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AQ1fSm1evo

Offline Uzlu

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #87 on: March 01, 2019, 21:53:46 »
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Salvors Begin Assessment of Wrecked Norwegian Frigate

The floating shearlegs barges Rambiz and Gulliver have successfully raised and carried the sunken frigate Helge Ingstad back to port at Hanøytangen, Norway, bringing a multi-month effort to recover the ship to a close.

On Thursday, salvage teams from the Royal Norwegian Navy boarded the Ingstad to conduct an initial damage assessment and to dewater flooded compartments. Upon her arrival, the Ingstad was too heavy to be hoisted onto a semi-submersible barge for transport, and pumping off more water will allow the salvage effort to proceed.

A Navy team suited up with oxygen tanks and dry suits to conduct an examination of the frigate's interior, and they wore helmet cameras to document their findings. Among other clues gathered on the video, investigators hope to preserve evidence of which watertight doors were closed and which were left open at the time of the sinking, which will help them to model the flooding that took the Ingstad down.

Some 300 people - including over 100 members of the Ingstad's crew - are on hand to help with dewatering and initial salvage efforts. Anita Eide, 26, was among those on board the Ingstad on the night of the collision, and Eide was one of the first people to board the wreck after her arrival in port. "The vessel is as dirty inside as it is on the outside," she told NRK.

In advance of the raising, Norway's defense department prepared a precise plan to remove and preserve the most sensitive equipment on board the Ingstad. Saltwater is more corrosive when in contact with air, so the crew will remove about 1,400 pieces of gear from the wreck and submerge it in freshwater for the best possible chance of preservation. Some of these items - especially bridge electronics - will be transferred to Norway's Accident Investigation Board (AIBN) for use in its inquiry.

During the lifting operation, salvors found that Ingstad had several hundred tons of buoyancy. "This may indicate air pockets," said Anders Penna, the leader of the operation for salvage contractor BOA. Any compartments that remained watertight could contain undamaged equipment.

The OEM suppliers for the Ingstad's systems will assist with the effort to save components. Though Ingstad has been underwater for months, Forsvaret believes there may be value in assessing the state of her turbines and diesel engines, among other valuable machinery.

Norway's defense department (Forsvaret) has not yet reached a conclusion about the possibility of repairing the Ingstad and returning her to service, but it has begun exploring options to shore up Norway's naval capabilities in her absence. Ingstad is one of only five main surface combatants in the Royal Norwegian Navy, and her loss represents a considerable reduction in capability. Among other options, Forsvaret is considering extending the life of a class of small missile boats which are currently slated for decommissioning. It also has the option of adding one more unit onto an existing contract for new submarines.
https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/salvors-begin-assessment-of-wrecked-norwegian-frigate

Offline Colin P

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #88 on: March 02, 2019, 23:25:19 »
Likely the air pockets are in the tanks and air trapped in deckheads.

Offline JMCanada

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« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 11:53:37 by JMCanada »

Offline Uzlu

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #90 on: March 05, 2019, 08:01:19 »
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Forlorn frigate may sail once again

The once-proud Norwegian frigate KNM Helge Ingstad is finally back at home port in Bergen, severely gashed and rusting after four months underwater. Raising the sunken frigate, which collided with an oil tanker in early November, has already cost taxpayers dearly and now government officials want to repair it so it can sail again.

Naval officers were already claiming on Monday that the frigate could be refloated within six weeks. “The goal is get KNM Helge Ingstad down on the water and afloat on its own,” Flag Commander Thomas Wedervang told reporters on Monday, just after the frigate arrived back at the Haakonsvern naval base Sunday night.

Crews have already been on board the vessel since it was raised, then chained to heavy-lift barges and ultimately loaded onto a barge that towed it back to Bergen. The salvage operation itself proceeded relatively quickly, following numerous delays since the frigate sank off coastal islands northwest of Bergen after its collision with a tanker that its crew mistook for part of the oil terminal at Sture. Once the frigate was raised, it took just over a week to bring it to home port.

“Now our focus is on salvaging as much as possible” off the frigate, Wedervang said. Naval crews have already removed “much of value” from the wreckage, he said, including 1,400 unspecified “components” from a list of 2,500 on board. The last of the frigate’s weapons and ammunition will be removed, then the hull and the rest of the frigate’s condition will be evaluated.

Defense Minister Frank Bakke-Jensen told Norwegian Broadcasting Monday evening that the government wants to make the frigate operable again. “The work to clarify how KNM Helge Ingstad can be repaired starts now,” Bakke-Jensen wrote in an email to NRK. “The government wants to re-establish the frigate’s operative capability.”

He said the salvage operation so far has already cost “at least NOK 640 million” (USD 75 million). If the badly damaged vessel can’t be repaired, or if that option becomes too expensive, the minister said other alternatives will be evaluated, from replacing the frigate with a new one or investing instead in smaller vessels, submarines or maritime patrol flights.

The government will put forth a new long-term plan for the defense department in 2020. The work on that plan will likely determine the ultimate fate of the frigate.

There’s been little talk about the fate of the crew members on the bridge of the frigate since they collided in the early morning hours of November 8 with the fully laden tanker sailing from the Sture terminal. The tanker had a pilot on board and an escort vessel, and its crew frantically tried to get the Helge Ingstad’s crew to slow down and change course to avoid the collision, to no avail.

Both Naval officials and Bakke-Jensen himself have seemed keen to gloss over blame for the collision, opting instead to praise how well the vessel’s evacuation went and how well the salvage operation went this past week, despite its delayed start. The frigate’s captain has also defended his crew, while a preliminary report from Norway’s state accident investigation board merely claimed that a string of events led to the collision, while other maritime experts suggest the frigate’s crew was at fault. Bakke-Jensen and the Norwegian Navy seem most intent now on simply moving on, and learning how to deal with the loss of 20 percent of the fleet and a huge blow to Norway’s defense capacity.
https://www.newsinenglish.no/2019/03/04/forlorn-frigate-may-sail-once-again/

Offline Colin P

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #91 on: March 05, 2019, 10:59:13 »
My guess is that the hull is twisted and if brought back into service, will be a money pit to keep working and many gremlins from hidden corrosion in the wiring.

Offline Chief Engineer

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #92 on: March 05, 2019, 14:58:17 »
My guess is that the hull is twisted and if brought back into service, will be a money pit to keep working and many gremlins from hidden corrosion in the wiring.

My guess if they did get it back in the water it would be a pride thing, not a save money thing. Every bit of wiring, insulation, fire proofing, equipment is compromised from SW. We're talking much more than a 6 week job.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2019, 15:47:03 »
My guess if they did get it back in the water it would be a pride thing, not a save money thing. Every bit of wiring, insulation, fire proofing, equipment is compromised from SW. We're talking much more than a 6 week job.

It's probably both faster and cheaper to simply build a new one; it's something like 5-10 times the labour to install things once the ship built (compared to doing it at the module stage), and they'd also have to do a damage assessment, come up with a repair plan, and execute.

They are being weirdly relaxed about finding fault; not a fan of scapegoating, but you can't let people slide for making mistakes that put the lives of the entire crew at risk.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2019, 18:02:40 »
Likely as the rot goes far higher than the Captain and a indepth exam will cause all sorts of problems.

Offline CloudCover

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2019, 18:56:21 »
Likely as the rot goes far higher than the Captain and a indepth exam will cause all sorts of problems.
Which Navy are you talking about? They have a very small org, no??
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2019, 11:41:51 »
Well it could apply to several......

Rumour has it that various initiatives were being pushed that took precedence over good seamanship. That sort of stuff comes from senior management, both political and military.

Offline CloudCover

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2019, 13:14:47 »
Yes, it would seem to apply to several!
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Offline Czech_pivo

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2019, 13:38:08 »
Well it could apply to several......

Rumour has it that various initiatives were being pushed that took precedence over good seamanship. That sort of stuff comes from senior management, both political and military.

To your point - have a read of this article.  I cannot comment on the validity of the information.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/11/22/gender-politics-and-sinking-of-knm-helge-ingstad.html

Offline FJAG

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Re: Loss of Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad
« Reply #99 on: March 06, 2019, 20:06:01 »
To your point - have a read of this article.  I cannot comment on the validity of the information.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/11/22/gender-politics-and-sinking-of-knm-helge-ingstad.html

I'm not sure that the article has any validity or even a point to it.

Basically it rambles on about the poor seamanship displayed (which I presume correct because of the result) and the Norwegian Forces publishing articles wherein which they express their pride in the extent of the integration of women in their Navy.

There is nothing in the article which indicates that there was a lowering of standards or any "woman" issues which caused the accident. Just the usual blathering that in the past there had been some:

Quote
debate [that] had centred around the number of women in the Navy, the extent to which they are quoted in requirements compared to men, and what effect it had on the professional “culture” of the Armed Forces.

Completely useless article that adds nothing to our knowledge of the real issues.

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