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Offline mariomike

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In the news,

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CBC
Nov 08, 2019

Leak of thousands of posts from defunct neo-Nazi forum offers clues to identify Canadian members
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/iron-march-message-board-canadian-forces-1.5353201?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar
'We're going to find as many as we can,' director of anti-hate group says

A massive leak of posts and private messages from a neo-Nazi message board that went offline two years ago offers clues to identify its Canadian members, including some who claimed to serve in the Canadian Armed Forces.

Canadian Forces responds

Rest of the story at link.
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline OceanBonfire

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Navy investigating reservist who encouraged fellow members of neo-Nazi web forum to enlist

Calgary reservist claims he no longer supports extremist ideology despite previous ties to hate groups

Roberto Rocha, Jeff Yates · CBC News · Posted: Dec 04, 2019 2:00 AM MT


Boris Mihajlovic, centre, who went by the alias Moonlord in the online neo-Nazi forum Iron March, is promoted to leading seaman at HMCS Tecumseh, a naval reserve division in Calgary. The photo, found on the division's Facebook page, was posted in April 2018 after Mihajlovic claimed to have left his extreme ideology behind. The naval reserve says it was not aware of his past until three weeks ago. (HMCS Tecumseh/Facebook)

This story is part of Exposing Hate, an ongoing series examining the nature of hate in Canada: how it manifests, spreads and thrives and how Canadian institutions, law enforcement and individuals are dealing with it.

A reservist with a history of ties to hate groups and spreading racism is being investigated by the Royal Canadian Navy — nearly four years after enlisting.

Boris Mihajlovic, of Calgary, was one of the administrators of the now-defunct Iron March forum, a notorious neo-Nazi website that had more than 1,200 users. He was also involved with Blood & Honour for at least four years and its armed branch, Combat 18, a group the Canadian government identified last summer as a terrorist organization.

"No one hates Canada and the Canadian military more than me, yet here I am," he wrote on Iron March in 2016, one of many posts encouraging other users to enlist in the armed forces.

"They pay you to teach you the methods you need to destroy them."

However, when reached by phone in Calgary last week, Mihajlovic told CBC News he realizes he was wrong and now rejects those views. He says he hasn't been involved with hate groups since Iron March shut down in 2017 and has tried to turn his life around.

"I want people to know that I'm a very different person than I was," he said. "I just want people to know that the people in these groups really need mental help and therapy."


'Race war'

CBC identified Mihajlovic after an anonymous activist known as antifa-data leaked the full contents of the Iron March forum, including private messages between members, as well as their IP and email addresses.

Known as Moonlord, Mihajlovic was an administrator and among the forum's most prolific contributors, with nearly 2,500 posts in two years.

His rationale for serving in the military was to gain combat experience for an eventual "race war."

"If there was an opportunity to get trained to be more effective in the race war — and get paid for it, any normal fascist would take it. If I was old enough to join [the military] earlier I would have," he responded in 2016 to another member who was unsure whether joining the military was a good idea.

In private messages, Mihajlovic claimed to have joined the Calgary chapter of Blood & Honour in 2012, after three members were charged in the beating of two Sikh men in Edmonton.

In 2015, he registered a website for the group using his real name and home address.

Mihajlovic was nevertheless able to join the Canadian Forces Naval Reserve in early 2016.

Capt. Alan Offer, commanding officer of the naval reserve, told CBC that the navy was only made aware of Mihajlovic's past three weeks ago and an investigation is underway.

But in a private message sent to another user on the forum in June 2016, Mihajlovic wrote that at least one of his superiors was made aware of his past shortly after he joined the reserves, and advised him to leave Blood & Honour.

"I was already planning to, so it was an easy decision," he wrote.

"I wasn't accused or threatened but I got the message. They could have just discharged me immediately."

Mihajlovic left Blood & Honour soon after, according to a private exchange with a member of the group's Edmonton branch, but he became even more active on Iron March.

He was promoted to the rank of leading seaman in April 2018 and today works as a supply technician for HMCS Tecumseh, a naval establishment in Calgary.

Capt. Alan Offer said based on the outcome of the navy's investigation, Mihajlovic "may be retained if he has been rehabilitated, or could be subject to administrative actions up to and including release."

"Anyone who holds hateful and degrading views of others is not welcome in a Canadian Armed Forces uniform," he said.

Mihajlovic has never been involved in any operational deployment.


A violent ideology online

As an administrator of Iron March, Mihajlovic, who was in his early twenties at the time, welcomed new users and ordered them to read several books as a condition of joining.

The list included a terror handbook that advocates bringing down the state with targeted attacks in order to replace it with a racially pure fascist state.

Iron March was the birthplace of Atomwaffen Division, a terror group whose members have been charged in five homicides in the U.S. Mihajlovic said he was never a member of that group.

The leaked private messages, sent between September 2015 and November 2017, show that new users would often come to him for advice and insight on fascist ideology.

Quote
"I really felt isolated at the time I became involved in those groups."
- Boris Mihajlovic

Mihajlovic praised neo-Nazi mass murderers and terrorists. He also lambasted other members who thought school shootings were immoral because the victims were children.

"I'm not encouraging people to shoot up schools, there are way better targets," he wrote in a post. "I'm encouraging people to stop feeling sorry for lemmings being slaughtered. There isn't any good reason to feel that way."


'I realized I was wrong'

When reached by CBC News last week, Mihajlovic said he was drawn to the extreme right for many of the same reasons that lure other young people, including social isolation and a desire to be part of something bigger.

"I really felt isolated at the time I became involved in those groups. My only friends were really in those groups."

He said his military experience, as well as a course he took at the University of Calgary in 2017, made him question his radical beliefs.

"During my time in the military, I met people from different races and cultures and realized I was wrong," he said. "I realized I was hating people without any reason. I believed in a really elitist world view."

On the forum, however, Mihajlovic described a completely different outlook. When a member claimed he was worried that military "indoctrination" would shape his political views, Mihajlovic said that wasn't the case for him.

"Did my views change from attending a system indoctrination centre? No, I became more radical," he wrote in a post in April 2017, at least a year after having joined the navy.

Nevertheless, Mihajlovic insists he has changed.

"Over half the period of my service has been within the period I have been rehabilitating," he wrote in an email.

He shared some of his correspondence with Life After Hate, a support group for people seeking to deradicalize. He has been communicating with one of the organization's volunteers since June.

The Canadian co-founder of Life After Hate, Tony McAleer, could not confirm that Mihajlovic contacted them, since the service is confidential.

Mihajlovic also shared evidence that he has been volunteering with an organization that helps new immigrants settle in Calgary.

On Nov. 26, while trying to reach Mihajlovic through one of the email addresses he had used on the forum, CBC received a response from someone claiming to be an antifascist activist. The person explained that Antifa intercepted the email because it had hacked the account.

A day later, Mihajlovic's identity was revealed publicly by activist website Unicorn Riot, which described him as a neo-Nazi arms dealer in the navy. Unicorn Riot did not respond to a request for comment.


Making amends

The Canadian Anti-Hate Network, which collaborated with activists to expose Mihajlovic, said renouncing one's racist past is part of the process of redemption, but it's not enough.

"The harm he did isn't erased because he's going through deradicalization," said executive director Evan Balgord, when told by CBC of Mihajlovic's emails with Life After Hate.

Balgord said there have been cases where neo-Nazis who were exposed publicly claimed to have deradicalized but later relapsed. He did not mention specifics.

"They have to genuinely show that they're deradicalized. Nothing can happen until they demonstrate that they're genuinely making amends and taking responsibility."

That can include acts such as offering a public apology and providing information to law enforcement about other dangerous extremists, he said.


Discussions of an arms deal

In private messages with an Iron March member from France, Mihajlovic, who claims to hold Canadian and Serbian citizenship, appeared to try to organize a trip to Bosnia with fellow members in 2017.

He also assured the member that he could arrange for him to obtain illegal firearms, including assault rifles and grenades. Mihajlovic even listed his contacts' prices for certain weapons, including 250 euros for a pistol, 500 euros for an AK-47 assault rifle and 2,500 euros for a rocket-propelled grenade.

He told the French member that he would arrange for the weapons to be smuggled into the European Union through Croatia.

"We will help you conceal everything, you 100% will not have a problem at the border," he wrote.

Three months later, after the French member became unhappy because Mihajlovic's contacts had raised their prices unexpectedly, Mihajlovic replied: "I am risking jail as well and making no money on this."

There's no evidence that this visit ever happened, or that weapons were sold, since Mihajlovic asked the French member to move the conversation to a more secure communications app. However, private messages with a forum member living in Croatia suggest Mihajlovic was in Zagreb in June 2017, around the time the weapons deal was supposed to take place. In the messages, he was planning to meet up with the Croatian contact and described a youth hostel that CBC was able to determine exists.

Mihajlovic denies the deal took place or that he knows arms dealers in Europe. He told CBC he was trying to impress other members of the forum.

"I thought I would look cooler and gain reputation on the forum if people knew me as someone who had these connections. But I didn't have any."

CBC found 10 other Canadians in the Iron March leaks who claimed to be in the military or were thinking of joining.

The naval reserve would not provide any details on the investigation into Mihajlovic's online activities, saying the matter is ongoing.

Mihajlovic told CBC he already had plans to leave the service "for personal reasons."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/navy-reservist-iron-march-data-1.5382424
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Out of curiousity, what harm is the Anti Hate network saying he did? Sounds like the guy was an arsehole on the internet  when he was young, then realized it was dumb when he got outside of his little corner of the world and met some people through the reserves, and was actively seeking help. Is it really necessary to kick people forever when they are trying to better?

He's been exposed on the national news, and that will follow him pretty much forever whenever you google his name.  That will probably make him not get more than a few jobs and lose other opportunities. Assuming he probably was promoting hate speech in his little forum, but that's a big difference from actually doing it publicly.

If someone is making an effort to not be a jerk, and you keep kicking them down, odds are pretty good they'll just revert back. Rehabilitation has to be let people get back to some form of normal, or there is no incentive. That's why we allow criminal pardons and whatnot.

Offline gryphonv

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Out of curiousity, what harm is the Anti Hate network saying he did? Sounds like the guy was an arsehole on the internet  when he was young, then realized it was dumb when he got outside of his little corner of the world and met some people through the reserves, and was actively seeking help. Is it really necessary to kick people forever when they are trying to better?

He's been exposed on the national news, and that will follow him pretty much forever whenever you google his name.  That will probably make him not get more than a few jobs and lose other opportunities. Assuming he probably was promoting hate speech in his little forum, but that's a big difference from actually doing it publicly.

If someone is making an effort to not be a jerk, and you keep kicking them down, odds are pretty good they'll just revert back. Rehabilitation has to be let people get back to some form of normal, or there is no incentive. That's why we allow criminal pardons and whatnot.

Rehabilitation should be accepted if they truly rehabilitate. Question is how long does that take? How do they prove they are genuine. Etc.

There are no real answers that fit everyone.

The bigger issue to me  is he most likely lied on his application to get into the military. Continued to be a member of the hate group/website after he swore in, thus violating his oath he took.

It is harder to believe a guy who has said whatever is needed to in the past to get what they want. Also makes it much harder to take anything he says at face value today.

This is going to haunt him for the rest of his life. And the CAF being bad PR adverse will more likely cut ties than support him.

At the end of the day he might be genuine in his desire and commitment to rehab. But is the risk to the CFs reputation if something more serious happens down the line worth it?

Also the likelyhood of him maintaining the proper security clearances now to keep his jo b may be all but impossible, regardless what his CoC believes.

Personally, I dont feel the risk is worth it.

Offline Brihard

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I’m skeptical that someone does a full turnaround from being a leadership figure in the neo-Nazi movement in just eighteen or so months. In any case, there’s more than enough here for him to be an unacceptable security risk to CAF, as well, of course, as the impact on the CAF’s credibility with the public.

When you choose the behaviour, you choose the consequences. Sucks for him that his recent past actions have been ‘outed’. It’s his responsibility to prove that’s not who he is anymore.

There is inherent harm to society from the mere existence of groups of the sort that he helped administer. He fostered a climate that encouraged others to hate and to act on it. He deliberately encouraged other radicalized extremists to join CAF to gain equipment and skills.

Maybe he actually has changed his ways since mid 2017. Not sure. But it’s not the institution’s responsibility to be a rehabilitative environment for neo-Nazis.

I will admit chuckling at the talk of joining the military to gain combat skills for the race war, then becoming a NavRes Sup Tech.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline gryphonv

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I will admit chuckling at the talk of joining the military to gain combat skills for the race war, then becoming a NavRes Sup Tech.

From the studio that brought you Under Siege, the new thriller action movie...Broken Supply Lines. Get to experience what happens when you piss off the wrong people . As immortalized in Sienfield...'No soup for you'

Offline ArmyRick

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So if I am a little off topic, mods please slap some sense into me.

This is absolutely unacceptable for such petty and hateful groups to exist like this. No place in our society for such BS.

NOW, its funny that CBC found this hidden obscure hate group (mostly online activities) and yet what have they done about one of the largest hate groups in existence, Antifa? Ohhhhh selective on who they name and shame?
M'eh

Offline Navy_Pete

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Maybe he actually has changed his ways since mid 2017. Not sure. But it’s not the institution’s responsibility to be a rehabilitative environment for neo-Nazis.

For sure, I imagine he's gone after the admin review process and have no issue with that. I guess it was more frustration with the instant cancel culture where things from the past are never forgiven.

From how it reads though, he had left that in the past and had been making some kind of efforts to reform for the last few years, and this only came to light because of the data leak. A few people have popped up pretty surprised at this, because there was never an issue working as a minority for working with him, and they wouldn't have suspected him of being a racist. Not that it defends what he did, but does make me wonder how much of it was just pandering to the group to feel a sense of belonging.

He seems like the type that all the various groups target to radicalize (whether it's white supremacists or other terrorist groups like ISIS), but I think that there has to be a way for people like that to be able to deradicalize, shake off the brainwashing and reintegrate back into greater society or we're hooped.  Not sure how to get there, but didn't really sound like that was something the antihate group was interested in.

Offline mariomike

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NOW, its funny that CBC found this hidden obscure hate group (mostly online activities) and yet what have they done about one of the largest hate groups in existence, Antifa?

Nothing new about anti-fascists in Toronto.

They took the streets back before the war to clear public spaces of Nazi sympathizers,
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22christie+pits%22+riot&sxsrf=ACYBGNSPZ-HbsxfJyy_Flv0PsfXdoLA48A:1575557637861&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0p8_K4Z7mAhXkY98KHbSXAWYQ_AUoAnoECA8QBA&biw=1280&bih=641
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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I totally agree with the last line.



https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/return-of-sailor-with-white-supremacist-past-sparks-protest-in-navy/ar-BB17jrAf?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

Return of sailor with white supremacist past sparks protest in navy

Jeff Yates,


Members of a Canadian Forces Naval Reserve base in Calgary say they're upset at how the Armed Forces readmitted a sailor identified by CBC News as the former administrator of a neo-Nazi forum.
Four sailors at the HMCS Tecumseh Naval Reserve base reached out to CBC to speak out against the Royal Canadian Navy's decision to readmit Leading Seaman Boris Mihajlovic without, they say, reassuring them that he's no longer a threat.
In December, CBC News identified Mihajlovic as Moonlord, one of the former administrators of Iron March, a notorious neo-Nazi hate forum that gave rise to the terror group Atomwaffen Division. The site closed down in 2017.

"The command team never acknowledged the situation. Even last year, they brought everyone together to address [CBC's] article, but they never said his name, they never said what he did. It was really on the down-low," said one sailor who spoke on condition of anonymity because they fear reprisals from their superiors.
Reached by CBC at that time, Mihajlovic said he regretted his actions and he had taken steps to turn his life around. He sought counselling with Life After Hate, a group that helps extremists recover, and volunteered with an immigrant support organization.

The navy placed him on suspension pending investigation in the wake of the CBC report. In early July, Mihajlovic was seen working on the base.
Mihajlovic confirmed that he's back in the navy and that his return caused a disturbance, but declined to comment further.
Navy video 'too little, too late,' sailor says
On July 13, Cmdr. Joseph Banke sent a video statement to the base's staff explaining the decision to reinstate Mihajlovic. It's this video that upset the sailors, who say the navy's leadership was not transparent with Mihajlovic's reintegration and offered no reassurances that he was indeed rehabilitated.
"It's time now for us to be able to move forward. I believe in rehabilitation over retribution, and it's the time now for that member to come back and to work with us again," Banke said in the video, which was sent to CBC News by the concerned sailors.
"There are some of you that have felt very victimized by this. I hear you," Banke said. "We cannot counter hate with more hate. We need to build forward, together. We need to rehabilitate, together. We're going to support this member, together."
At no point in the video did Banke name Mihajlovic.

"That video was sent more than a week after the member had been reinstated in our unit. We felt that it was too little, too late, that maybe they should have warned us that this person was coming back," one of the sailors said.
All four sailors who spoke with CBC News asked to remain anonymous.
'It leaves a bad taste in my mouth'
In an email, the navy said the decision to reinstate Mihajlovic was made on July 15 and that the commander informed the crew in a video immediately after the decision was made.
"When there is a possibility of saving the career of a member who has been rehabilitated, the RCN attempts to do so by using official administrative measures," said Capt. Christopher Daniel, public affairs officer for the navy. "In such cases, corrective measures such as ethics training could be necessary."
Daniel declined to discuss further details of the investigation, citing privacy laws.
However, the sailors who contacted CBC say that the video was sent on July 13, and that Mihajlovic had returned to his post before it was broadcast.

The navy did not respond to followup questions about the contradictions between its official version and the sailors' accounts.
"It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I want to be able to tell [people of colour who work on the base] that this is not the type of place where we tolerate such nonsense, but now I can't," another sailor said.
"This has caused a stir like I have never seen in our unit."
Another sailor, who identifies as a visible minority, said that Mihajlovic's presence made them feel unsafe.
"I have been contemplating leaving or switching over to the Army because I don't want to be around this guy or in this environment. It doesn't make me feel comfortable at all," the sailor said.
"If they don't do something, I'm out of here."
'No perfect answer'

The consternation caused by the seaman's return raises the question of what is the best way to reintegrate someone who espoused a violent ideology.
Margaux Bennardi, the support and community engagement co-ordinator for the Centre for the Prevention of Radicalization Leading to Violence in Montreal, said that there is "no perfect answer," and cases are handled individually. But in this case, it would be important to give both the returning sailor and the other crew members resources to address their concerns.
"We would create a safe space where the other members could express their fears without being afraid of being judged," she said. This could be a person in the navy who would take their concerns seriously.
For the former extremist, it would be important to create "protective factors" like giving him a new community and sense of belonging, and reducing "vulnerability factors" like being ostracized and stigmatized, she said.
"If you take this away, it can be counterproductive."
 
© Skype/CBC Evan Balgord, executive director of the Canadian Anti-Hate Network, says the reintegration of former extremist can't happen without a public apology and gestures to re-earn the public's trust.
Anti-hate groups reached by CBC News said that without a clear rebuke from the navy and a public apology from Mijahlovic, his reinstatement amounts to a slap on the wrist.
"He has never publicly divulged the full extent of his neo-Nazi involvement. He has never issued a full public apology for his actions and we have not seen him make amends for the harm he has done," Meyer H. May, executive director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, wrote in a statement on their website.
"We need to see him swear to make amends, and make those amends," Evan Balgord, executive director of the Canadian Anti-Hate Network, wrote on Twitter. "The Canadian Armed Forces has to allow him and encourage him to make that public apology in order to earn some measure of trust from the wider public in their decision to welcome him back."
Three of the four sailors who spoke to CBC felt that Mihajlovic has no place within the Armed Forces, even if he has deradicalized. They said that the fact that Mihajlovic had been an active member of the naval reserves while he was administrator of Iron March has tainted the uniform.
"I think that's great [that he says he has turned his life around]. I hope he has, and I want to believe he has, because it would be horrible if he had to live his life with such anger and hate in his heart," a sailor said.
"Unfortunately, though I think he deserves a second chance at life, I don't believe he should put on the uniform."
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Offline MilEME09

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I would argue his behavior, rehabilitated or not goes against even the latest Hateful conduct policy, not to mention our ethos. I do not know the full details but from what I have read the member should of been released, if your comrades cannot feel safe around you because of your views, you do not belong in our organization.

If they are insisting in keeping him, he should never be put into a leadership position of any kind.
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Offline OceanBonfire

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Today's update:

Quote
FSWC Meets with Navy Commander to Urge for Justice in Case of Reinstated Sailor with Neo-Nazi Ties

... We are very much looking forward to seeing a re-consideration of the previous investigation and decisions made with respect to this Seaman and for the review led by the Vice-Admiral to send a message loud and clear that neo-Nazis and white supremacists are not tolerated in the Canadian military. Not now or ever."


https://www.facebook.com/CRCN.CMRC/posts/2582485882002635

https://www.friendsofsimonwiesenthalcenter.com/news/fswc-meets-with-navy-commander-to-urge-for-justice-in-case-of-reinstated-sailor-with-neo-nazi-ties
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