Author Topic: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )  (Read 116368 times)

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Offline Lloydjohn93

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #225 on: February 06, 2018, 16:00:18 »
Thank you

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #226 on: February 06, 2018, 18:29:21 »

Offline Nuggs

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #227 on: February 06, 2018, 19:51:44 »
Career courses generally count. But most CMs defer for parental.

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Offline sidemount

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #228 on: February 06, 2018, 20:58:10 »
(8) (Military Requirements) A commanding officer may defer the start date of the period of parental leave if there are military imperative requirements.


Thats the only mention that I can find in the regs.

I would argue that a career course is not an imperative military requirement.

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Offline Nuggs

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #229 on: February 06, 2018, 21:00:50 »
I agree, however:

IMR include, but are not limited to:

participating in an operational deployment or major military exercise;

participating in an unforecasted tasking;

attending a career course;

attending a court martial; or

posting or attached posting (including any action related to it, such as HHT, out-clearances, travelling time, Special Leave (Relocation))

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #230 on: February 06, 2018, 21:47:12 »
It would be silly for you CoC to prioritize your course over your family.  Yes, it is per the instructions but there are chances it'd break you or your family.  The implications for the CAF would be greater than defering a career course for a couple of months...

Offline sidemount

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #231 on: February 06, 2018, 22:34:06 »
Do you mind posting the ref for that...Id like to add that to my bookmarks of useful mil refs

Interesting to see what military considers imparative...and really I dont think any of those are worthy of denying parental (besides a legal summons but thats kind of a interesting one). I would argue that there isn't one example of where a person isn't replaceable. Lets be honest, there is always someone else that can replace us, and career courses are run regularly.

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« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 22:38:13 by sidemount »
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Online Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #232 on: February 07, 2018, 05:34:01 »
I always thought “imperative” meant that it was only something you and you only could do.

If the Op/Mission/task would fail without your presence, then I’d say that’s imperative (IMHO).

I’ve never seen a career course trump parental leave.

You can be recalled off parental leave for stuff (courts martial, posting, etc..).


Offline Nuggs

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #233 on: February 07, 2018, 07:34:25 »
Do you mind posting the ref for that...Id like to add that to my bookmarks of useful mil refs

Interesting to see what military considers imparative...and really I dont think any of those are worthy of denying parental (besides a legal summons but thats kind of a interesting one). I would argue that there isn't one example of where a person isn't replaceable. Lets be honest, there is always someone else that can replace us, and career courses are run regularly.

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Leave Policy Manual

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Offline Nuggs

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #234 on: February 07, 2018, 07:58:04 »
Agreed.

In past experience with subordinates I've never seen it be an issue for either CMs or COs. Especially if it was a Killick / Corporal.

I have seen two times in the past... One was a Senior NCM that needed the course for an OUTCAN that would have followed parental leave. And the other one was a Junior NCM involving a career course thats run rarely (every 18 months or so).

I have had one CO that attempted to block my own parental (70 days), for a forcegen sail.

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #235 on: February 07, 2018, 08:01:54 »
Keep in mind the OP is brand new to the CAF and is waiting for a QL3 course for AVS tech. If that course is not run very often and the OP was not planning on taking the full year, I can definitely see where the imperative military requirement could be used. This is not deferring a QL5 or PLQ, its to get the member to OFP.

Let's make sure we have the whole story before anyone starts claiming decisively that it's not IMR.

Offline sidemount

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #236 on: February 07, 2018, 08:56:11 »
Leave Policy Manual

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And right at the very first of it....thanks, I obviously skipped right over that part.

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Offline captloadie

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #237 on: February 07, 2018, 11:56:16 »
What would you do, say for an individual working on a sponsored Masters programme, where the courses required are only run the winter semester, and is scheduled to finish at the end of the school year? Allowing the member to take time away from their studies could mean the individual now needs to wait until Jan 2019 to complete their training.

Offline Rheostatic

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #238 on: May 31, 2018, 15:24:53 »
Have there been any changes to CAF parental leave periods and benefits since the 2017 introduction of "Extended parental benefits" to the federal employment insurance program? Or, is it still limited to 37 weeks within the first year?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #239 on: May 31, 2018, 16:44:09 »
There was a CANFORGEN late last year. Short version: top up is still one year total MATA PATA combined,  but EI can be extended.

There are pension implications.
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Offline Rheostatic

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #240 on: June 01, 2018, 08:26:46 »
There was a CANFORGEN late last year. Short version: top up is still one year total MATA PATA combined,  but EI can be extended.

There are pension implications.
Thanks. Basically the CANFORGEN says, no change until the policies are updated. QR&O 16.27 still reads "(4) (Period of Leave) The period of parental leave is up to... a period of 37 weeks", and for Class A reserve members, QR&O 9.10 reads "(3) (Period of Exemption) The period of exemption from duty and training for parental purposes is up to... a period of 37 weeks"


I understand that EI can be extended, but you'd need to be on leave to get EI. Are members being allowed to take some other non-parental LWOP after their 37 weeks, to extend their leave up to 61 weeks? (I'm not concerned with allowances, just leave.)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 08:59:57 by Rheostatic »

Offline dapaterson

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #241 on: June 01, 2018, 08:33:04 »
In the LWOP table in the leave manual, the final item in the table includes leave for other purposes; if it's over 30 days, DGMC is the approving authority.

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Offline Rheostatic

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #242 on: June 01, 2018, 08:51:08 »
OK, in practice, is that how extended parental leave is currently being handled, using "leave for other purposes"?

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #243 on: June 01, 2018, 09:12:41 »
That's my understanding.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #244 on: January 08, 2019, 08:42:47 »
That's my understanding.

"A commanding officer may defer the start date of the period of parental leave if there are military imperative requirements."

There's a 8 month course coming up. My wife is due in the middle of month 6. There is another course starting just after this one, but they want me on the first course. The first course will not be in the same city as where my wife resides, but the second course will. (i.e. if I go on the first course, I will very likely miss the birth, but if I go on the second course, I won't miss it).

If I tell my Career Manager to NOT load me on the upcoming course, but they do anyways, and then I go and request parental leave now, and my CO supports it, does that trump the CM? The leave manual and the QR&Os state that it is the CO's authority to both grant parental leave, and to enact the clause that allows them to defer parental leave due to military imperative requirements.

So, can my CO trump the CM? Can I request parental leave now, 6 months before I actually need it? My plan would be to take parental leave from the time of birth up to the start of the 2nd course (about 2 months).
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Offline CountDC

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #245 on: January 14, 2019, 18:14:18 »
If you know the due date then you can submit your parental form and leave pass anytime you want.  I had my staff member submit once she informed me she was pregnant and I always submitted mine well in advance. Some times I do up all my planned leave passes for the entire year right at the beginning so there is no question about it.
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Offline OdinsBeard

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PATA and Release
« Reply #246 on: December 12, 2019, 18:11:49 »
Good day folks,

Quick question for a SME or anybody with experience;

Can I release while on PATA, I have recently began PATA and a opportunity has arisen in which I would like to release for the 6 month timeline. The question is can I begin my release while on PATA, stay on PATA for 3 months and then work 3 months before I release.

Assistance on this matter would be fantastic. Thank you in advance.


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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #247 on: December 16, 2019, 11:23:19 »
Short answer - contact your mata/pata admin.

Yes it can be done but there may be implications that you need to consider and they should be able to cover for you. 
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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Offline Attie3

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #248 on: January 15, 2020, 09:31:35 »
I have not been enrolled yet but my wife is pregnant with our first. I did some calculations but the timing would be a little tight.

It would be best if I can take pata during my time on PAT I'm wondering, would a regf member would be eligible to take pata leave during basic bmoq?

I would love to continue my process as a regf member but if not, I would be considering moving my application to pres.

Thanks for all your help.

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Re: MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )
« Reply #249 on: January 15, 2020, 11:20:12 »
I have not been enrolled yet but my wife is pregnant with our first. I did some calculations but the timing would be a little tight.

It would be best if I can take pata during my time on PAT I'm wondering, would a regf member would be eligible to take pata leave during basic bmoq?

I would love to continue my process as a regf member but if not, I would be considering moving my application to pres.

Thanks for all your help.
A Commanding Officer has the ability to defer the start date of parental leave if there are imperative military requirements.  In accordance with the Leave Policy Manual, the definition of imperative military requirements includes attending a career course, which BMOQ is.  So, no, you won't be pulled off of BMOQ to let you take PATA.

There is scope to delay the start of the start date of the PATA though, so if your wife gives birth while you are on BMOQ, it would be possible to take it while you were awaiting your next phase of training, if there was sufficient time.
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