Author Topic: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion  (Read 2662 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 278,025
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,262
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2020, 20:08:48 »
For comparison, WW2 cost the US over $4 trillion in today’s dollars.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline OceanBonfire

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 5,055
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 252
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2020, 20:32:28 »
Quote
Explainer: Trump has little power to restart U.S. economy

Legal experts say a U.S. president has quite limited power to order citizens back to their places of employment, or cities to reopen government buildings, transportation, or local businesses. Here is why.

What does the Constitution say about who makes decisions about public welfare?

The United States is a federalist system, meaning power is shared between a national and state governments.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-reopen-explain/explainer-trump-has-little-power-to-restart-u-s-economy-idUSKBN21B3F5
Recruiting Center: Montreal
Regular/Reserve: Regular Force
Officer/NCM: Officer (DEO)
Occupation choice: Logistics Officer
Current application: March 28, 2017
CFAT: Previously completed in November 2011
Interview: July 11, 2017
Medical: August 2017
Competition list: October/November 2017
Position Offered: May 25, 2018
Swearing In: August 21, 2018
BMOQ: August 25, 2018
BMOQ Graduation: November 16, 2018
OFP: December 2019

Offline Eaglelord17

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 18,855
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 342
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2020, 08:54:56 »
They did print money and take on debt in WWII, however there was one major fundamental difference. They were on the gold standard at that point in time.

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 278,025
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,262
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2020, 09:02:23 »
They did print money and take on debt in WWII, however there was one major fundamental difference. They were on the gold standard at that point in time.

Whereas now America’s currency is backed by the world’s faith in the stability of America’s economic and political institutions. I don’t see the issue?
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 326,911
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,583
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2020, 11:16:54 »
Quote
Wednesday morning, after the bill passed, Scheer released a statement highlighting oversight measures included in the final draft, including shortening the period during which the federal cabinet has special spending powers to keep the government moving and requiring regular reports on spending to House of Commons committees.

This is what an "effective Opposition" looks like, he said.

The Conservative position on the bill was complicated by one of its own MPs, Scott Reid, who threatened on his website Tuesday to show up in the Commons despite not being one of the designated 11 Tories who were supposed to be present, and deny the unanimous consent needed to expedite the bill's passage.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid19-coronavirus-ottawa-hill-economic-legislation-1.5509178

It's great to get people emergency money fast. It's great the Conservatives stopped the Liberals unsurprising power grab attempt.

This still highlights a problem with our government. Citizens elect MPs they want to represent us in Parliament. MPs are put in a tricky position of championing what their constituents want and towing their party line, which isn't always the same. MPs who don't tow the party line get intimidated, threatened or even forced into compliance.

Here the Conservative government (and I'm guessing others) appeared to selected only MPs that would vote yes and push this through. How is a handful of hand picked "yes" MPs representative of Canadians?
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline ModlrMike

    : Riding time again... woohooo!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 221,144
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,950
    • Canadian Association of Physician Assistants
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2020, 11:20:42 »
How are only 10% of MPs representative of the whole country?
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. (H.L. Mencken 1919)
Zero tolerance is the politics of the lazy. All it requires is that you do nothing and ban everything.

Offline Kilted

  • New Member
  • **
  • 805
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 28
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2020, 12:16:07 »
How are only 10% of MPs representative of the whole country?

Because they had to keep the number under 50. Regardless of the number of MP's present, the bill was agreed upon ahead of time by all parties. Even if the House was full, party discipline would have resulted in a much similar outcome.

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 278,025
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,262
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2020, 12:31:12 »
Because they had to keep the number under 50. Regardless of the number of MP's present, the bill was agreed upon ahead of time by all parties. Even if the House was full, party discipline would have resulted in a much similar outcome.

They didn’t have to, they chose to. They picked just enough to allow a reasonably proportionate participation by the parties. But as correctly stated, they were there basically to ratify a cross-party agreement on legislation assembled by a negotiation team.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    Is a pinball wizard.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 264,975
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,155
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2020, 12:33:30 »
They didn’t have to, they chose to. They picked just enough to allow a reasonably proportionate participation by the parties. But as correctly stated, they were there basically to ratify a cross-party agreement on legislation assembled by a negotiation team.

Which is what I want to see from EVERY party, and special interest group, right now....cooperation, until we kick this bugs $ss....then we can get back to digging our trenches.
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 326,911
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,583
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2020, 12:36:28 »
They didn’t have to, they chose to. They picked just enough to allow a reasonably proportionate participation by the parties. But as correctly stated, they were there basically to ratify a cross-party agreement on legislation assembled by a negotiation team.

That seems like it defeats the purpose of electing 338 MPs to represent 37 million Canadians to me, They picked a hand full of MPs who agreed beforehand to vote yes to a plan the parties already agreed to out of Parliament. It's like posting a job where someone is already picked, just to make it legal.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    Is a pinball wizard.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 264,975
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,155
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2020, 12:41:03 »
Or one could say it defeats the purpose of having a military but keeping them at home instead of "militaring".  [bet its not a word]  But these aren't normal times.
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 278,025
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,262
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2020, 12:42:06 »
That seems like it defeats the purpose of electing 338 MPs to represent 37 million Canadians to me, They picked a hand full of MPs who agreed beforehand to vote yes to a plan the parties already agreed to out of Parliament. It's like posting a job where someone is already picked, just to make it legal.

Depends. There are lots of routine matters that require legislation and that parties are in agreement on (routine spending measures are a good example). Lots of votes don’t have a ton of members in the house.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 134,935
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,810
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2020, 12:52:57 »
Heaven forbid that parties cooperate in times of crisis.
Optio

Offline PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 930,850
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,343
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2020, 12:53:04 »
That seems like it defeats the purpose of electing 338 MPs to represent 37 million Canadians to me, They picked a hand full of MPs who agreed beforehand to vote yes to a plan the parties already agreed to out of Parliament. It's like posting a job where someone is already picked, just to make it legal.

The bill needed unanimous consent of the House. Flights are being cut all over the country. How do we get the MP from Yukon back, or ones from Nfld who when they go back have to lock themselves in their houses again? The bill was negotiated, Liberals tried to pull a fast one, got called out on it and the original agreement finally got tabled. As much as I agree with Scott Reid's, I think he's just trying to get his name out there then actually doing anything constructive. Did he honestly think Pierre Pollievre or Andrew Scheer were going to let those power grab provisions pass? He wanted headlines.

I can see why they sent all the MPs home to be with their families, but I also am of the mind that they should have been quarantined in Ottawa and still continued to sit. That would have taken 338 people off the roads/airplanes, especially considering Ottawa has a decent concentration of the cases and MPs are more likely to come in contact with people who travel internationally. Pretty sure we ran Parliament through the Spanish Flu, so why not now?

Offline stellarpanther

  • Member
  • ****
  • 3,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 212
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2020, 13:07:31 »
The bill needed unanimous consent of the House. Flights are being cut all over the country. How do we get the MP from Yukon back, or ones from Nfld who when they go back have to lock themselves in their houses again? The bill was negotiated, Liberals tried to pull a fast one, got called out on it and the original agreement finally got tabled. As much as I agree with Scott Reid's, I think he's just trying to get his name out there then actually doing anything constructive. Did he honestly think Pierre Pollievre or Andrew Scheer were going to let those power grab provisions pass? He wanted headlines.

I can see why they sent all the MPs home to be with their families, but I also am of the mind that they should have been quarantined in Ottawa and still continued to sit. That would have taken 338 people off the roads/airplanes, especially considering Ottawa has a decent concentration of the cases and MPs are more likely to come in contact with people who travel internationally. Pretty sure we ran Parliament through the Spanish Flu, so why not now?

Unless absolutely necessary, everyone who can be should be home with their families including MP's, Military etc.  A lot of MP's live in hotel rooms during the week and need to go out to get food etc which would obviously put them at risk. It's not like we're going to bring in cots and MRE's for them and all of the security and other support staff that would be required.

Offline Altair

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 51,744
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,113
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2020, 13:14:36 »
Unless absolutely necessary, everyone who can be should be home with their families including MP's, Military etc.  A lot of MP's live in hotel rooms during the week and need to go out to get food etc which would obviously put them at risk. It's not like we're going to bring in cots and MRE's for them and all of the security and other support staff that would be required.
Also largely pointless.

The close confines of the house would all but guarantee transmission,  and once people started getting sick they would be stuck at home anyways. Given the average age of MPs,  fair to assume some of them wouldn't make it either.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 14:14:08 by Altair »
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 156,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,998
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2020, 14:02:05 »
The majority of work on a bill is done in committee and drafting rooms, Parliament is mostly political theatre.

Offline PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 930,850
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,343
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2020, 14:22:02 »
Also largely pointless.

Ack, the people who control the purse-strings of the entire country are non-essential, but the Cannabis Store employee is. We should give the PM dictator authority in a minority government situation just because.  :facepalm:

Stellar: The CAF is being held at home because we're the strategic reserve for Canada. If the Government calls and we can't go because we didn't protect our incredibly small force, there would be hell to pay. We also have many international missions on going with RIPs coming up and need to protect those deploying folks so we don't blow the schedules out of the water.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    Is a pinball wizard.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 264,975
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,155
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2020, 14:27:27 »
Ack, the people who control the purse-strings of the entire country are non-essential, but the Cannabis Store employee is. We should give the PM dictator authority in a minority government situation just because.  :facepalm:

If the Cannabis store worker could work from home then he'd be non-essential.....but, as far as I know, working that job from home is still illegal.
+300
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 326,911
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,583
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2020, 14:31:25 »
Quote from: PuckChaser
. How do we get the MP from Yukon back, or ones from Nfld who when they go back have to lock themselves in their houses again?

Is there any provision for MP's to vote over some type of remote conference or remote voting set up?

There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Target Up

    ........pull, patch, and score.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 231,605
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,915
  • that's how we roll in redneck land
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2020, 14:52:55 »
If only the technology existed for groups of people to communicate with each other over long distances. Someone should get on that, game changer.
+360
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline OceanBonfire

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 5,055
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 252
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2020, 20:11:57 »
Quote
Trump says reopen by Easter, Corporate America says not so fast

“I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter,” he said on Fox News Channel.

But the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, National Retail Federation and National Restaurant Association pointed to less optimistic recommendations by public health officials.

Even so, the powerful U.S. Chamber of Commerce said it was following the advice of medical professionals.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-companies/trump-says-reopen-by-easter-corporate-america-says-not-so-fast-idUSKBN21C3KQ
Recruiting Center: Montreal
Regular/Reserve: Regular Force
Officer/NCM: Officer (DEO)
Occupation choice: Logistics Officer
Current application: March 28, 2017
CFAT: Previously completed in November 2011
Interview: July 11, 2017
Medical: August 2017
Competition list: October/November 2017
Position Offered: May 25, 2018
Swearing In: August 21, 2018
BMOQ: August 25, 2018
BMOQ Graduation: November 16, 2018
OFP: December 2019

Offline CBH99

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 33,615
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 937
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2020, 23:28:38 »
Hey everybody,

I just thought I would post this here, as it might be helpful to some of you.

Alberta emergency money became available today.  I applied right around 9am, and had the money in my account by about 2pm.



https://www.alberta.ca/emergency-isolation-support.aspx
Fortune Favours the Bold...and the Smart.

Wouldn't it be nice to have some Boondock Saints kicking around?

Offline stellarpanther

  • Member
  • ****
  • 3,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 212
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2020, 00:30:43 »
Stellar: The CAF is being held at home because we're the strategic reserve for Canada. If the Government calls and we can't go because we didn't protect our incredibly small force, there would be hell to pay. We also have many international missions on going with RIPs coming up and need to protect those deploying folks so we don't blow the schedules out of the water.
Sorry if my post wasn't clear but I agree with you.  I don't think any intelligent person would question the decision made to keep most of the military at home right now.  I was referring to a thought of MP's being kept in Ottawa.  Having them here staying in hotels or quarantining them in the Parliament building would be a bad idea IMO.



Offline Blackadder1916

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 209,855
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,176
Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2020, 09:52:57 »
. . .  This is 2020, if they were able to run parliament during the Spanish Flu, they can certainly do so now with all the benefits modern technology brings us.

If a comparison was made then it would probably be with the 13th Parliament which ran from March 18, 1918 until October 4, 1921.  As to how hard hit parliamentarians were by the Spanish Flu, according to the Library of Parliament, twenty MPs and Senators died in office from 1918 to 1920.  As to cause of death, that becomes becomes a little more difficult to ascertain as the readily available reference material (primarily wikipedia) mentions cause for only two individuals - Sir Wilfred Laurier (stroke) and Samuel Simpson Sharpe (one of two sitting MPs who died while on active service with the Canadian military - suicide).

Whether that is a higher than normal rate of death in office for the time would require further research.
+300
Whisky for the gentlemen that like it. And for the gentlemen that don't like it - Whisky.