Author Topic: Issued Sleep System-Use and Temp Range  (Read 45039 times)

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Offline nawk

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Issued Sleep System-Use and Temp Range
« on: December 03, 2004, 17:28:33 »
I was wondering how cold it needs to be before you find it necessary to bring along the 2nd sleeping bag for winter exercises.  Would I need to bring it for a weekend exercise in Meaford for example in February or can most people tough it out?

Offline SHELLDRAKE!!

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Re: winter sleeping bag
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2004, 17:34:02 »
 That depends on alot of things.Some people get colder faster than others in a sleeping bag(ie they sweat more),is it a matter of too much kit to hump???Most units require a basic winter kit list.Are you sleeping in quarters/tent/trench.Your best bet is bring all parts in case cause for the extra few pounds its better to have the option of adding more kit.
"Artillerymen believe the world consists of two types of people; other Artillerymen and targets"-unknown

Offline WB

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Re: winter sleeping bag
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2004, 21:09:06 »
I'd say the biggest factor is what you're going to be doing.

When I did my final BIQ field ex in Meaford and in February, I only took my inner - but, IIRC I never got the chance to use it anyways. On that ex, most guys just just racked on their thermal rests with maybe a ranger blanket. No one bothered to strip down and hop in the sack. On the other hand, I spent the past week living in a heated mod tent on a cot (Able Bear). It wasn't nearly as cold as Meaford, but I brought both sleeping bags. Even though I wasn't actually in my outer, I had it in my bivi mag and used it as another layer to sleep on top of.

My best advise: ask the other guys in your platoon. Different units and different trades have different requirements.

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Re: winter sleeping bag
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2004, 12:45:00 »
I always take only one piece of my sleeping bag, I never use the second one. My sleep system is as follows.

Cobat MuMu (The New Thermal Blanket that replaced the Sleeping bag Liner and The Ranger Blanket)
Sleeping bag outter
Bivey Bag

I am always warm no matter what, I used this past week and will next week on the mattawa. And I was comfortable.

Offline WB

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Re: winter sleeping bag
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2004, 13:54:06 »
Quote
I always take only one piece of my sleeping bag, I never use the second one. My sleep system is as follows.

Cobat MuMu (The New Thermal Blanket that replaced the Sleeping bag Liner and The Ranger Blanket)
Sleeping bag outter
Bivey Bag

I am always warm no matter what, I used this past week and will next week on the mattawa. And I was comfortable.

I'd just like to emphasise the fact that Meaford in February is quite a bit less comfortable then the heated mod tents we have on the Mattawa.

WPN TECH

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Re: winter sleeping bag
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2004, 14:16:32 »
You had heat? well we had a heater, that was filled with gas instead of diesel. So we didnt have heat for too long at all.

Offline thorbahn

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Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2005, 15:51:50 »
I was wondering: are both the inner and outer sleeping bag used at all times? or sometimes during the summer months is just one or the other used..

Thanks.

Offline MCG

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2005, 18:44:23 »
you would be well advised to pick up a good quality ultra lightweight fleece bag to use during the summer and as a liner to replace the crummy issued one.
The new poncho liner (AKA: Ranger Blanket) replaces both the old woodland pattern poncho liner and the sleeping bag liner.  No more ties to fasten to the inside of the sleeping bag. 

Offline Acorn

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2005, 22:48:58 »
Proper military sleeping will be done at command. You will deploy the issued sleeping pad (be it the modern - allegedly self-inflating - pad, or the wonderful Goodyear rubber air matress) and all parts of the sleeping bag - the inner, outer, flannel liner and hood. You will sleep on your back.

Any deviating from the above regulations will be subject to section 999 subpara q of the NDA, which allows a maximum punishment of life in a ten-man tent, or lesser punishment.

 ;D

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Offline paracowboy

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2005, 22:52:38 »
But on exercises etc (if your unit allows) you would be well advised to pick up a good quality ultra lightweight fleece bag to use during the summer and as a liner to replace the crummy issued one.
I'm confused. Sleeping on Exercise? Explain, please.


 ;)
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Offline Goober

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2005, 00:02:44 »
I'm confused. Sleeping on Exercise? Explain, please.


 ;)

lol

I just used the CADPAT ranger blanket and my bivvy bag this month, was warm and toasty for the hour or so of sleep I got each night. I leave the sleeping bag inner and outer in the shacks. I've put the shitty cotton liner in the bottom of a kitbag since I was issued it in January.

Offline Pte.Pinky

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2005, 02:11:49 »
I'm confused. Sleeping on Exercise? Explain, please.


 ;)

Lol, i agree. I've always been told I can sleep when I'm dead. Oh how i've wished to be dead at times...  :D
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dutchie

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2005, 18:15:55 »
I'm not sure if I've got this right....

The 'new' Ranger blanket is very similar, if not identical, to the US one that troops used to buy at a US PX (like me). Or is there a new 'new' Ranger Blanket?

Second, the fleece/cotton liner for the sleping bag is discontinued and replaced by the ranger blanket?

D-n-A

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2005, 22:06:45 »
The new poncho liner/ranger blanket is pretty much the same as the US woodland one, except its CADPAT and has a zipper going around it so you can zip it  up like a sleeping bag. Saw it in ASU Chilliwack, looked pretty good.

Offline MCG

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2005, 12:35:21 »
There is also a zippered flap in the centre that opens into a hole to fit your head through.  (Imagine that, a poncho liner that can actually be worn like a ponch & in so doing it could act as a liner to a poncho!)

Offline paracowboy

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2005, 13:41:47 »
I've used it on two Exercises, now. It's alright.
...time to cull the herd.

Offline Bomber

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2005, 18:54:00 »
Now I need a poncho for it to line.

Offline B.McTeer

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Re: Sleeping bag inner/outer usage
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2005, 19:25:57 »
The Ranger Blanket is on the New Kit list for all new recruits (i would have one but base supply ran out and still is)
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Offline navy stoker

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Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2008, 05:47:50 »
I, like so many other people, purchased an old sleeping bag from an army surplus store. I have had it about 10 years.

My simple question, What is the tempurature rating of each piece? I have the liner, and the outer bag. I think the entire setup has a rating of -45C.

Thanks

Offline DropZone

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2008, 15:53:50 »
Navy Stoker,

Perhaps when it was new...

Assemble the bag, lay it on the floor and wait for it to loft. When it has lofted, measuer the hieght of the bag in inches and let me know what the measuerment is and I can give you a survival rating based on the loft.

Kind Regards
Brian Kroon
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Offline navy stoker

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2008, 17:27:43 »
I measured about 4 inches

Offline geo

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2008, 17:58:12 »
Stoker... when the CF sleeping bag is combined Inner + outer + liner + Hood... you mighta gotten to -45C when it was new.

IIRC, there was a "silk" outer shell to the darned thing when issued in the late 60s / early 70s
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2008, 19:11:13 »
... you mighta gotten to -45C when it was new.
  If lucky and you were properly clothed/unclothed/dry in the thing.

Quote
IIRC, there was a "silk" outer shell to the darned thing when issued in the late 60s / early 70s

There "may" have been an additional thin shell available at one time, perhaps on a trial basis.  However, it was probably not generally issued at least not by the mid 70's.  But I do recall seeing such an item and "using" it during some trials done in the 70s by eggheads from one of the research establishments.  A few of us were used a guinea pigs for cold weather trials of equipment in Calgary, specifically at the UofC.  We had to spend time in what was basically a really big fridge hooked up to temperature monitors that measured skin and core temps while wearing different types of clothing or using different variations/combinations of the sleeping bag.
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Offline navy stoker

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2008, 19:23:43 »
So.... Still no answer.

1 outer bag, 1 liner, about 4 inches. Roughly how good would i be able to go down to, wearing hooded sweatshirt/sweat pants? would -20C be too cold?

Thanks

Offline Run away gun

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2008, 19:47:18 »
You will be better off without sweatshirt/sweatpants as layers of clothing make you sweat and you will just wake up cold.

Offline navy stoker

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2008, 19:48:39 »
ok, buck naked.... how cold could the average person be comfortable with the bag I have?

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2008, 19:50:25 »
I wouldn't try it in the middle of winter.
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Offline Quag

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2008, 20:35:22 »
ok, buck naked.... how cold could the average person be comfortable with the bag I have?
-25C to -30C...but you won't be super comfortable...you'll know you ARE camping in the winter...

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2008, 20:46:38 »
I wouldn't rate it much past -10 C. 

Don't forget that there is also an insulation factor for the air space between the inner and outer bags, not just the bags.  Next question would be whether or not you are using them alone or with a bivie bag or in any sort of tentage/shelter.  What type of mattress are you using?  Everything will add up in calculating the insulation offered.
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Offline navy stoker

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2008, 20:47:21 »
If I am camping in -30 weather.... I wont need to be reminded, I will know. I just dont want hypthermia!!

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2008, 20:54:02 »
If I am camping in -30 weather.... I wont need to be reminded, I will know. I just dont want hypthermia!!


Like I said, I'd only rate an outer with liner up to -10 C.  If I had both the inner and outer, the liner, a bivie bag, the hood, and the old black Betty, and naked, I would be warm as toast at -45C and perhaps a little more.  With only one, inner or outer, I have been cold at +5C.
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Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline navy stoker

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2008, 20:56:40 »
Like I said, I'd only rate an outer with liner up to -10 C.  If I had both the inner and outer, the liner, a bivie bag, the hood, and the old black Betty, and naked, I would be warm as toast at -45C and perhaps a little more.  With only one, inner or outer, I have been cold at +5C.

I have used it at about -5, possibly colder, and wearing hooded sweatshirt and sweat pants, I was toasty.

I am just trying to figure out how low I can go. Maybe I will see about spending a night in a deep freezer.

Offline Quag

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2008, 17:24:27 »
I was using the assumption that you were using inner and outer and liner...I wouldn't say you would be comfortable at -45C, they really aren't that great...  I would say you would be comfortable until -30C.  As well, as George states, using an air mattress is a must.  Without it, you could use a sleeping back thats rated to -100C (figuratively) but would be still be cold due to the frozen ground in direct contact with you.  When planning your sleep, think air spaces as much as you can.  The more the better (warmer).

Offline Strike

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2008, 17:31:23 »
Making sure it is cleaned properly can also help increase the loft and thus the temp rating.

http://gorp.away.com/gorp/gear/expert/042501.htm

As mentioned, a good mattress is a must.  You can get a pretty good air matress with down incorporated into it from various camp stores and it packs quite small too.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2008, 19:02:33 »
I was using the assumption that you were using inner and outer and liner...I wouldn't say you would be comfortable at -45C, they really aren't that great...  I would say you would be comfortable until -30C.  As well, as George states, using an air mattress is a must.  Without it, you could use a sleeping back thats rated to -100C (figuratively) but would be still be cold due to the frozen ground in direct contact with you.  When planning your sleep, think air spaces as much as you can.  The more the better (warmer).

If you can dig a decent snow hole, you only need a bag rated to -15 or so. Snow holds lots of air! Not always possible though.
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Offline DropZone

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2008, 15:27:31 »
Navy Stoker,

Based on your loft measurement you have a survival rating of 20 degrees f/ -7 degrees c.

Kind Regards
Brian Kroon
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Offline PanaEng

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2008, 15:50:02 »
So Brian, since you probably have more knowledge, how would be the best way to clean one of these old bags?
At MEC they say to wash with a very mild soap and the tumble dry in a big dryer; other places - and I think the tag on these bags say to dry clean only.

cheers,
Frank
Now I am SAS or SWAT dude ;-)
see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2008, 17:41:12 »
I slept in the sleeping bag complete (issued liner, inner, outer, and hood) on the green S.I. air mattress, inside a bivy bag, in the snow under a tree on winter ex at -30 or more (not sure what the coldest part of the night was).  The gear was all dry, and I was wearing only a gitch (clothing was hung outside on the tree branch, mukluks were not in the bivy bag, etc, to avoid as much moisture inside the bivy/sleeping bag as possible).  The kit was in relatively decent condition as well.

I was incredibly warm throughout the night.  We were along the edge of a copps of woods, with a bit of a breeze and not much overhead cover.  The only time I was cold was getting dresse/undressed and the first minute or so in the bag until it warmed up from my body heat.  That bivy bag is one of my favorite pieces of kit ever. 



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Offline DropZone

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2008, 17:35:01 »
PanaEng,

The problem with dry cleaning solvents is that they tend to leach out the natural oils in down plumule and the silicon off siliconized synthetics.

Having said that, I recommend Woolite/Zero, a modern front loading  machine on gentle cycle with luke warm water and tumble dry on warm NOT hot.

Kind Regards
Brian
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2008, 21:20:51 »
PanaEng,

The problem with dry cleaning solvents is that they tend to leach out the natural oils in down plumule and the silicon off siliconized synthetics.

Having said that, I recommend Woolite/Zero, a modern front loading  machine on gentle cycle with luke warm water and tumble dry on warm NOT hot.Kind Regards
Brian

I remember one of our guys deciding to do his own back in the '70s. Good German dryer in the shacks, high heat. Ended up with a football sized package, with a zipper that went around it about four times ;D
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Offline DropZone

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2008, 12:56:41 »
Recceguy,

I know what you mean, here in Edmonton one or our customers took his Drop Zone sleeping bag to a laundry mat to wash and dry. He washed it without issue and tossed it along with a Drop Zone Squeeze Me and a Drop Zone arctic parka into the dryer.

All were melted including the zippers! (YKK zips melt somewhere north of 450 f)

Anyhow legal action took place and it was discovered that the temp adjust knobs were ineffective and the dryers were set to high....to move customers out faster.
 :-\

Kind Regards
Brian Kroon
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Offline jaawod

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2008, 21:15:12 »
I was on an ex last year using the issue inner, outer, and  bivy bag with a 3 year old canadian tire fleece liner.  We were in a mod tent without heat and on cots.  My bags had not been dry cleaned in 2 years and I was fairly warm at -45 (-55 with windchill   :o) wearing only my gitch.  The bags do get a lot warmer after being cleaned, and as always YMMV, but that's my coldest experience.

Offline PanaEng

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2008, 21:54:38 »
They are indeed great bags. My only beef with them is that they do not compact well and are heavy - I guess is the nylon material thickness used and the zipper.

Up in Baker Lake for exercise Svelte Nordique (sp? doesn't that conjure up images  ;)) in 88 I believe, we jumped in to an air temp of -44 with no wind. It warmed up overnight to -40 but the wind picked up to over 44kn so the wind-chill increased making it feel like -67 (-40 with about 80km/h wind http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/WindChill_Calculator_e.cfm).
We lost a few people to cold injuries - and a dozer, LAPES in fine but the fuel and hydraulics froze) but we managed to stay in the tents and igloos/snow caves for a few days until it got worse.
The tents were flapping something furious and, even with the snow wall, some guy lines and tents ripped, so the air inside did not have a chance to warm up much. Most of us were cold but we survived fine in those bags.
We used the horse-hair and honeycomb packing for the dozer, grader and other equipment to line the inside walls of the arctic tents plus we used the reflective blankets as well.

cheers,
Frank
Now I am SAS or SWAT dude ;-)
see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

The 'pana" is a play on the Greek 'pan' meaning 'all' or 'encompassing' - not quite but similar to UBIQUE
some think I just misspelled "para" :-)

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2008, 00:13:42 »
Yep, the issued bag had its day, but it might be time to issue two separate bags: one for temperate and one for ECW conditions. Below are a few examples of ECW type bags available on the open market. I've got the MEC bag and have used it at 30 below and it was nice and toasty - and weighs less than 5 lbs/ 2 kg


MEC Thor:
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp;jsessionid=gRHJJfyGxZyxK5b2JVKQb0J9y6JW1z7Jr3yB2vgh2N9ynRLmmm1s!455273123?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302701483&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442618380&bmUID=1226811462957


Mountain Hardware:
http://mountainhardwear.com/Product.aspx?top=1429&prod=1125&cat=1479&viewAll=False

North Face:
http://www.thenorthface.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=11018&storeId=207&catalogId=10201&langId=-1&from=subCat&parent_category_rn=11749&variationId=80X













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Offline noneck

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2008, 12:37:44 »
D&B I agree 100%. I use the MEC Hybrid, it's relatively inexpensive and is rated down to -20. When it gets really cold I just add an inner bag, which is small enought to use as a patrol bag by itself in the summer. The hybrid comes in some great rave colours however no one see's it when it's packed in my biv bag. It's at least half the packed size and weight of the issue bag.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442280153&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302865703&bmUID=1226856312224

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2008, 23:50:54 »
D&B I agree 100%. I use the MEC Hybrid, it's relatively inexpensive and is rated down to -20. When it gets really cold I just add an inner bag, which is small enought to use as a patrol bag by itself in the summer. The hybrid comes in some great rave colours however no one see's it when it's packed in my biv bag. It's at least half the packed size and weight of the issue bag.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442280153&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302865703&bmUID=1226856312224

And I bet it's about 1/2 the bulk of our 2 bag system...
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Offline Canadian Mind

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2009, 19:06:43 »
And I bet it's about 1/2 the bulk of our 2 bag system...

Say's it is only rated to -20. I'll keep my issued bag, even though it has it's own problems:

I used to simply slip into it, then into my inner bag, then my outer bag, but found I could never fully slip into the outer bag for some strange reason. So I tied all the bags together with the attached straps. Now the liner only comes up to my chest, the inner bag is just short of my shoulders, and the outer bag goes just over my head. I'm 5'10." So did I simply not assemble them right, or are there different sizes to the bags and frig up when issung me my bag, or is this normal?

Really, those problems only cause mild discomfort for me, and a bit of a pain in the *** when getting in/out of the thing and when it comes to stuffing socks/underwear at the foot of the bag to keep those warm for morning. Even without the hood (thanks to the overly large outer bag) I've slept comfortably in -40 not including the windchill, though I did have a lean-too constructed over my head, and spruce/pine bows plus the air matress below me.

Offline PanaEng

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2009, 17:38:31 »
Quote
I used to simply slip into it, then into my inner bag, then my outer bag, but found I could never fully slip into the outer bag for some strange reason. So I tied all the bags together with the attached straps. Now the liner only comes up to my chest, the inner bag is just short of my shoulders, and the outer bag goes just over my head. I'm 5'10." So did I simply not assemble them right, or are there different sizes to the bags and frig up when issung me my bag, or is this normal?

I'm 5'10" also and never had those problems - I also tie the bags together.
Check that they are what the tags say they are (inner/outer). I think there is a short and a long version so check they are the same size.

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Offline Canadian Mind

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2009, 17:56:04 »
Just checked:
Quote
NSN 8465-21-842-6078
Sleeping Bag, Outer, Cold Weather

Quote
NSN 8465-21-842-6079
Sleeping Bag, Inner, Cold Weather

Both also came from the same production run in November 2006, unless I'm reading the numbers wrong. The only possible indication of size I found was an orange tag with some faded numbers on it stitched onto the inner bag. Couldn't find one on the outer bag.

Offline geo

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2009, 19:56:05 »
Colour blobs (red/orange & green) were a way to visually ID inners from outers
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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2009, 19:59:16 »
And I thought all the tabs where a give away for the inner  ???
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Offline geo

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2009, 20:05:45 »
Inner had tabs on both sides....
Outer had tabs on the inside

That too - but, if they are rolled up & in QM, it's a lot easier to ID the inners from the outers by the colour coded blob
Chimo!

Offline Canadian Mind

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2009, 20:10:07 »
Alright. Any idea where I can check for the size?

Offline geo

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2009, 20:20:49 »
Size ??? I always thought it came in only one size.... "TOO"

Too small
Too big, and
Too tight
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Offline Canadian Mind

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2009, 20:48:56 »
Well my liner is too small, my inner is about right, and my outer is too big. So I guess you're right there.

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Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2014, 12:21:16 »
I'm going up north to Chisasibi for a week and it looks like the temperatures are gonna be at around -40 at night time. I was initially planning on bringing both the inner and outer sleeping bags with bivy bag, ranger blanket and liner, but that takes up too much space. So instead, I want to bring all that minus 1 sleeping bag. But I'm not sure which is warmer, the inner or the outer? Anybody have any recommendations for which sleeping bag I should bring and which I should ditch? Thanks!

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2014, 12:27:35 »
Looking at your posts, it appears you are pretty new, are you fully trained? Bring what your instructors/section commander tells you to bring. For the field, especially in the winter, do what the experienced Soldiers are telling you.

Personally, if it is going be -40 I'd use both sleeping bags. If it gets too warm, you can always unzip it.

Also, I assume you have the issue CADPAT ranger blanket/poncho liner? If you have that, you don't need to bring the green liner that you got issued with the sleeping bags(which I thought you had to turn in, when you get the ranger blanket).
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 13:07:37 by Hoplite- »

Offline Lightguns

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2014, 12:31:27 »
Bring what you are told to bring.  Stop playing games with your survival on an exercise in a remote area.  Army has better things to train for than evacuating your frozen rear end!
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2014, 12:34:47 »
If you're inside an arctic tent 2 sleeping bags *could* be too warm, however you should still bring both of them.

Bringing one of those $4.00 reflective emergency blankets might add a bit of warmth too in an emergency. I taped one inside one of my ranger blankets and it works really well.   

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Offline Brigitte

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2014, 12:35:09 »
I'm not on BMQ, I'm fully qualified, and as for what we were told to bring, we were only given a brief kit list. All it states in terms if sleeping bag is bring whatever works for you. I've used the outer sleeping bag on other winter ex's and it was alright. I was wondering if the inner was warmer though, that's all. But thanks for the info, I'll probably bring both.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2014, 12:40:38 »
I'm not on BMQ, I'm fully qualified, and as for what we were told to bring, we were only given a brief kit list. All it states in terms if sleeping bag is bring whatever works for you. I've used the outer sleeping bag on other winter ex's and it was alright. I was wondering if the inner was warmer though, that's all. But thanks for the info, I'll probably bring both.

Life sucks when you only bring one sleeping bag on a winter ex and some idiot soaks your sleeping bag by accident or something else happens to it  ;)
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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2014, 12:42:29 »
Just accept that you'll be spooning with your Signaller; chubbier Jimmies throw off more body heat in the winter.   :nod:
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Offline Brigitte

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2014, 13:00:52 »
Life sucks when you only bring one sleeping bag on a winter ex and some idiot soaks your sleeping bag by accident or something else happens to it  ;)
Good point! Alright well looks like I'm bringing both then. Thanks for te info everybody!

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2014, 17:41:26 »
An Old Ranger saying: Travel light, freeze at night.

Take both bags, and the bivvy bag to chuck it in, and an air mattress and a roll mat if you can too.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2014, 18:27:05 »
I'm not on BMQ, I'm fully qualified, and as for what we were told to bring, we were only given a brief kit list. All it states in terms if sleeping bag is bring whatever works for you. I've used the outer sleeping bag on other winter ex's and it was alright. I was wondering if the inner was warmer though, that's all. But thanks for the info, I'll probably bring both.

Fully qualified yet, you don't know how basic kit works.  *Qualified* doesn't = experienced, which if you really were you wouldn't be here asking questions.  ;)

Think worst case scenario, conditions where you will be.  Tents rip, catch on fire, kit gets wet, whatever.  I've slept in a snowbank, in the sleeping bag complete, on top of my air mattress, all of it inside my bivy bag and was toasty warm; it was about -25 that night.

For outdoor stuff (civie side), in the winter I go with the rule "It is better to have and not need, then to need and not have".

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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2014, 21:05:25 »
I'm reaching back a long ways and the ration water and aluminum pots may be getting in the way but, IIRC, the complete bag is good to -40. With a black betty (the new issue mattress is crap for winter) and a bivy bag, you should be GTG.
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Offline prairefire

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2014, 23:23:13 »
Take both... as said earlier you neveer know what will happen. In the early 80's I was deployed with A Coy 1VP on exercise in Ft. Wainwright, Alaska. We were working with an American Inf Bn. Day time High was -40C and the low was -55C without the windchill factor. On one of the days the winds started gusting up to 60kph and visibility went to crap so we had to stop haulling sleds and establish camp for the day. It was 2pm and the sun was already setting but the winds were so high we could not set up tents. Instead we burrowed into the snow and set up our sleeping bags and air matresses and were toasty warm with the inner, outer and liner(hated the thing because I always got tangled up in it). We improvised shelter and survived the storm until 3 am when the winds finally stopped. CSM kicked us all out of bed to set up tents and then kicked us back into bed for forced rest and drying out.

One Private brought only one piece of his sleeping bag. He was charged under 119 and fined on return to Calgary and his Section Commander got two weeks of extras for failing to properly inspect his section was ready to deploy.

If you are deploying to the Arctic or on Arctic Training I do hope they have issued a required kit list for deployment.

I have accumulated some 20 months of Arctic Training and deployments when I was in and every training exercise and deployment started with a detailed kit list. The Arctic and Old Man Winter are very unforgiving..............

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #67 on: February 27, 2014, 07:40:09 »
Just spent 1 week sleeping outside in Resolute Bay.  Ambient temperature at night hovered around -43 and windchill went down to -50.  Bring both bags.  And make sure you bring some insulation from the ground (the air mat is good, but in extreme cold weather, it doesn't inflate well.  If you blow it (so to speak), you add moisture and reduce its insulation potential.

If you are going to be working, I found a t-shirt with long johns, fleece (top and bottom) and rain jacket & pants was ideal.  If you are not doing much (ie: eating), parka and heavy weight bib pants instead of the rain jacket/pants.  I really like the mukluks for footwear.  Just make sure you keep them dry and bring extra insoles and duffle sock.

Offline blackberet17

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Re: Sleeping bag inner and outer temperature range
« Reply #68 on: February 27, 2014, 09:06:25 »
Just got back from a week in Goose Bay. Temp dropped to -37 overnight. We had the lantern and the stove going. I had both inner and outer, bivy, and ranger blanket. Brr.

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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Issued Sleep System-Use and Temp Range
« Reply #69 on: February 27, 2014, 09:12:00 »
Merged several threads about sleeping kit into one.