Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

[Eaglelord17]

The greatest issue about affordability for young people is that they believe it is their right to have work/life balance right out of high school, and to have the same life they had when living with their parents. Very few understand what hardship is until its too late. Do you know who can afford their own houses these days in their early thirties? Individuals who work six and seven days a week and multiple jobs and save that money up. Not those who live at home, work 35-40 hours a week and then spend all their money on vacations, weekends away, Starbucks, and wine nights.

Oh, and the other group that can afford housing. Immigrant families where all eight family members work whatever jobs they can get for as many hours as possible, and pool their earnings. And when they have enough saved up, they buy a local business and run it successfully. And then purchase the next one, and so on, creating employment for the ever growing family.

This used to be the way family farms, and family run businesses worked, until the newest generations decided they didn't want to put in the effort to keep the wealth generating businesses going because the work was too hard.

So what your admitting is it is much harder for them to get ahead.

Youth employment rates are down, those jobs they do find pay peanuts well requiring very expensive educations to get in the door. They are drowning in student debt which is basically a car payment you can’t default on (unlike previous generations which could, my uncle did this).

They shouldn’t have to work 3 jobs for a decade+ just to barely afford housing. The current generation is working the same amount as previous generations at their age so it isn’t ‘laziness’.

The biggest difference is the fact that before you could make poor financial decisions when you were young and you could recover from them. Today making those same poor decisions means they won’t ever recover.

Another thing to add in about wages, pensions are much worse today for the average Canadian. That is another thing which needs to get factored in to how much less they make per hour. Long term it is creating a slow burning crisis.

The difficulty in getting ahead today is much worse than even a decade ago. I couldn’t be where I am at today if I had to do it in the modern era (and I am only in my 30s).

This isn’t greed talking, I worked and got mine, I also want others to be able to get theirs. Otherwise we are acknowledging that life will be worse for my children if we don’t do something about it today.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Ahh yes the main thing you need to survive has gone up dramatically but I am going to discount that because it doesn’t suit my narrative.

I don't mean to discount it. I mean to disqualify the general "things are worse for my generation" whinge. There is one thing.

The apartment I rented in 2014 was 860$ a month. That same apartment today is 2k a month. Wages haven’t doubled. Cars are more expensive, food is more expensive. Yeah sure your not paying 300$ for cable but that doesn’t mean much when you struggle to pay for the basics.

"X is more expensive" is usually a consequence of "X has more features and capabilities". It is even part of the reason housing is more expensive. If you want to drive one of those new-fangled things with all the extra gadgetry, you pay for it.

Despite recent years' inflation, cost of food relative to means is still at what is probably an all-time low (or near it) compared to previous decades (and millennia).

 

[Brad Sallows]

You know why people go on vacations, starbucks and wine nights? Also put off having kids and getting married? Because if you're never going to catch up, save enough for a downpayment, might as well go the instant gratification route. It's financial nihilism on a mass scale.

So the complaint is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. "I can't get ahead because I don't see the point of trying", which certainly provides an easy excuse for self-indulgence in the present.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Youth employment rates are down, those jobs they do find pay peanuts well requiring very expensive educations to get in the door. They are drowning in student debt which is basically a car payment you can’t default on (unlike previous generations which could, my uncle did this).

They shouldn’t have to work 3 jobs for a decade+ just to barely afford housing. The current generation is working the same amount as previous generations at their age so it isn’t ‘laziness’.

Then they're doing it wrong. I suspect the root problem for most people is "I can't find the job I want to do for the amount of money I need for the lifestyle I want to live", not "I can't find a job that pays a living wage". Drifting along for a few years after HS graduation was not a luxury afforded to any generation born before about the mid-1950s.

 

[Altair]

Then they're doing it wrong. I suspect the root problem for most people is "I can't find the job I want to do for the amount of money I need for the lifestyle I want to live", not "I can't find a job that pays a living wage". Drifting along for a few years after HS graduation was not a luxury afforded to any generation born before about the mid-1950s.

Canada’s job market improves, but summer hiring remains tough for youth

Canada’s overall unemployment rate declined to 6.6 per cent in May, but many young people are still finding it difficult to secure summer work. For 15-year-old Eliana Tesgzeab, the search has been discouraging. “It makes me feel frustrated sometimes, and it makes me lose hope,” she said. After...

montreal.citynews.ca

Canada’s overall unemployment rate declined to 6.6 per cent in May, but many young people are still finding it difficult to secure summer work.

For 15-year-old Eliana Tesgzeab, the search has been discouraging.

“It makes me feel frustrated sometimes, and it makes me lose hope,” she said.

After spending weeks submitting applications, she is still waiting for an employer to call.

“I feel like it’s really hard because there’s a lot more people coming from different countries, and there’s less opportunity for younger kids to look for jobs because they want more people that work full-time. So it’s pretty difficult.”

Her experience reflects a broader trend.

According to Statistics Canada, while the national unemployment rate fell from 6.9 per cent in April to 6.6 per cent in May, the youth unemployment rate for those aged 15 to 24 remained significantly higher at 13.4 per cent.

Although that marks the first decline since January, the youth unemployment rate has remained above its pre-pandemic average of 10.8 per cent since January 2024.

Lina Raffoul, head manager at Horizon Carrière in Saint-Leonard, said the organization has seen a noticeable decline in opportunities for young job seekers.

“We have been noticing a big difference. We’re talking about 25 per cent less job offers this year than in an average year. And unfortunately, it is not a one-year issue. It’s not just one specific situation happening now, but it is more and more a constant reality that we are facing for the jobs of youth.”

Raffoul said employers are being more cautious about creating new positions, leaving young workers among the first to feel the effects.

“Usually, when there are less opportunities, youth are the first to face those difficulties. It’s usually opening jobs, jobs that are also in the front line. So there is one part that’s related to the market being more, I would say, trying to open less opportunities at this point, less jobs, be more prudent in their way of offering new opportunities.”

She added that several factors are contributing to the trend, including employers being more cautious about hiring, reluctance to create new positions, and the increasing presence of artificial intelligence in entry-level work.

When in doubt, blame the kids, call them lazy.

 

[Brad Sallows]

When in doubt, blame the kids, call them lazy.

"the youth unemployment rate for those aged 15 to 24"

15 to 24. Let that sink in. 24 is long enough to complete a two-year vocational program and get four years up on a trade, or long enough to complete a university degree and get two years into an occupation or profession.

Statistics that mix high-school teens with adults past Gr 12 are very close to useless.

 

[Czech_pivo]

"the youth unemployment rate for those aged 15 to 24"

15 to 24. Let that sink in. 24 is long enough to complete a two-year vocational program and get four years up on a trade, or long enough to complete a university degree and get two years into an occupation or profession.

Statistics that mix high-school teens with adults past Gr 12 are very close to useless.

I agree, the age range is too broad in this case. Better representation would be 15-22, add the 23-24 into the next age bracket.
Would love to listen to the explanation as to why ages 23 and 24 need to be included with a kid in grade 10 looking for 10-12 hours a week at McD's.

 

[Altair]

I agree, the age range is too broad in this case. Better representation would be 15-22, add the 23-24 into the next age bracket.
Would love to listen to the explanation as to why ages 23 and 24 need to be included with a kid in grade 10 looking for 10-12 hours a week at McD's.

Would 18/19 to 24 or maybe 26 be better? Sure.

but we get the statistics we get. And the statistics we get show that it's not the fault of young Canadians. There are just not as many jobs out there, not as many entry level positions and not as many people willing to hire a young person.

So to go around and blame a young person for facing that set of circumstances and call them lazy or entitled is asinine

 

[Czech_pivo]

So to go around and blame a young person for facing that set of circumstances and call them lazy or entitled is asinine

It's not only the 'young persons' that are 'lazy or entitled', that label can be equally applied to individuals across all age ranges. There are always some that fall under that label, unfortunately.

 

[YZT580]

This is an issue that is too complex to fit into a this or that category and you both are making valid points. Things have changed a lot and there is lots of blame to go around. Fact: there are no jobs for those under 19 in any retail outlet that sells either liquor or tobacco by government fiat. Fact there are no jobs for white kids in government summer employment until the immigrant, first nation and alphabet group are taken care of. Those two account for a lot of summer employment and the later bleeds over into adult ages. Fact: there are few jobs pumping gas as self-serve has replaced many of them. Automation has eliminated car washes. Baby sitting now requires certification. Stores such as Jack Frasers, Blanches, and Reitman's to list just a few used to employ numerous kids. Their replacements, the box stores still do. But a single Walmart that employs a dozen students has replaced upwards of a dozen smaller stores that each would employ 2 or 3 so opportunities disappeared there. Fast food outlets have discovered the benefits of the temporary off-shore workers programmes. Did I miss anything?
I deliberately left agriculture off that last one because we have produced a generation that doesn't understand the meaning of the word work. There were 15 positions available at the greenhouses where my granddaughter found work. They were only able to staff 5. The others went to the children of landed immigrants. At least one of them I know works 7 to 12 in one greenhouse and then goes up the highway to a second where she works from 1 to 8. That's two jobs for an 18 year old, both at minimum wage.
I have almost an acre of grass to cut. I have never had a student place a note in my mailbox or knock on the door to ask if I would employ them to maintain my lawn. Student painters is now big business so no volunteers in that category either.
The responsibility for those last items rests with the parent. Perhaps because neither of them were home in the evening until after 5 or 6 they have never insisted that their children share in the household responsibilities. They haven't insisted that they get out of the house and look for work.
On another note, what is wrong with working two jobs? I did and I am pretty sure that many of you did as well. I had my career sure but starting pay is never that great and a newbie generally has huge expenses. That first car, an apartment, wardrobe etc. But all of us survived, most of us I would say have prospered or at the very least are more than getting by.
So there are lots of places to lay the blame. None of us have the whole picture and from what I have read here, known of you are wrong. My 2 cents

 

[Altair]

This is an issue that is too complex to fit into a this or that category and you both are making valid points. Things have changed a lot and there is lots of blame to go around. Fact: there are no jobs for those under 19 in any retail outlet that sells either liquor or tobacco by government fiat. Fact there are no jobs for white kids in government summer employment until the immigrant, first nation and alphabet group are taken care of. Those two account for a lot of summer employment and the later bleeds over into adult ages. Fact: there are few jobs pumping gas as self-serve has replaced many of them. Automation has eliminated car washes. Baby sitting now requires certification. Stores such as Jack Frasers, Blanches, and Reitman's to list just a few used to employ numerous kids. Their replacements, the box stores still do. But a single Walmart that employs a dozen students has replaced upwards of a dozen smaller stores that each would employ 2 or 3 so opportunities disappeared there. Fast food outlets have discovered the benefits of the temporary off-shore workers programmes. Did I miss anything?
I deliberately left agriculture off that last one because we have produced a generation that doesn't understand the meaning of the word work. There were 15 positions available at the greenhouses where my granddaughter found work. They were only able to staff 5. The others went to the children of landed immigrants. At least one of them I know works 7 to 12 in one greenhouse and then goes up the highway to a second where she works from 1 to 8. That's two jobs for an 18 year old, both at minimum wage.
I have almost an acre of grass to cut. I have never had a student place a note in my mailbox or knock on the door to ask if I would employ them to maintain my lawn. Student painters is now big business so no volunteers in that category either.
The responsibility for those last items rests with the parent. Perhaps because neither of them were home in the evening until after 5 or 6 they have never insisted that their children share in the household responsibilities. They haven't insisted that they get out of the house and look for work.
On another note, what is wrong with working two jobs? I did and I am pretty sure that many of you did as well. I had my career sure but starting pay is never that great and a newbie generally has huge expenses. That first car, an apartment, wardrobe etc. But all of us survived, most of us I would say have prospered or at the very least are more than getting by.
So there are lots of places to lay the blame. None of us have the whole picture and from what I have read here, known of you are wrong. My 2 cents

I agree with most of your post. Most. But then there is that one nugget...

On another note, what is wrong with working two jobs? I did and I am pretty sure that many of you did as well. I had my career sure but starting pay is never that great and a newbie generally has huge expenses. That first car, an apartment, wardrobe etc. But all of us survived, most of us I would say have prospered or at the very least are more than getting by.

I find it hard to tell a young person who cannot find one job that the solution is to find two jobs.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Altair: here are Statistics

Brad Sallows: I don't trust them

No, I trust them. I'm not questioning whether the numbers accurately reflect the category. I absolutely deprecate the value of the category. Teenagers who almost entirely ought to be attending school and working part-time at most and are not legally responsible for themselves in many respects should not be lumped in with adults. What useful point do you think you can make with a number that mixes the part-time employment of legal children with the full-time employment of legal adults?

 

[YZT580]

I agree with most of your post. Most. But then there is that one nugget...


I find it hard to tell a young person who cannot find one job that the solution is to find two jobs.

Tell him to create his own and then add to it. I am not the only one with long grass and a cane. I am talking students now. As for graduates, it is difficult I know to tell a person that has just completed a very expensive education that everything he took is good information but useless. In the meantime, every transport I see has Drivers Wanted on the barn doors. There are lots of jobs available just not too many executive starting roles. I love the words to Working at the Car Wash Blues. They describe the dilemma of many except that the writer did take the job at the car wash.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I agree, the age range is too broad in this case. Better representation would be 15-22, add the 23-24 into the next age bracket.
Would love to listen to the explanation as to why ages 23 and 24 need to be included with a kid in grade 10 looking for 10-12 hours a week at McD's.

Absolute separation between in-school and out (K-12) is required. I can guess that unemployment is strongly affected by the transition from one to the other. I'm not sure what purpose is served by mixing them except to use the (probable) higher unemployment of one group to create an illusion of what the other group's true unemployment is (ie. to misdirect in the service of some political agenda).

 

[Brad Sallows]

Would 18/19 to 24 or maybe 26 be better? Sure.

but we get the statistics we get. And the statistics we get show that it's not the fault of young Canadians. There are just not as many jobs out there, not as many entry level positions and not as many people willing to hire a young person.

By definition you can't know what the circumstances of young post-K-12 adults are from the number you gave. The number given could be skewed by very high unemployment among school-attending teens.

 

[Altair]

Tell him to create his own and then add to it. I am not the only one with long grass and a cane. I am talking students now. As for graduates, it is difficult I know to tell a person that has just completed a very expensive education that everything he took is good information but useless. In the meantime, every transport I see has Drivers Wanted on the barn doors. There are lots of jobs available just not too many executive starting roles. I love the words to Working at the Car Wash Blues. They describe the dilemma of many except that the writer did take the job at the car wash.

Okay. I'm a young person.

I want to mow your yard. But you're out of my way. Okay, get on the bus or uber. You tell me to bring my own equipment...Okay, now I need a lift. I may or may not have a car. Now i'm lugging lawn cutting equipment across town, from place to place. do this for 2-3 weeks and all the nearby low hanging fruit is taken. What then? And does every young person do this? Saturate the market much?

Not to mention not every young person is in the shape to be working outdoors across town. Sure some are, not all are.

The go make your own work is a noble idea, it's just not practical as a systemic solution.

 

[Altair]

No, I trust them. I'm not questioning whether the numbers accurately reflect the category. I absolutely deprecate the value of the category. Teenagers who almost entirely ought to be attending school and working part-time at most and are not legally responsible for themselves in many respects should not be lumped in with adults. What useful point do you think you can make with a number that mixes the part-time employment of legal children with the full-time employment of legal adults?

I'm not a statistician. I don't make the categories. Some great idea fairy decided that youth unemployment is 15-24.

But rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater, maybe gleam what you can from the statistics we have to go off of?

Again, all you're bring to the conversation is "I feel" or "I suspect". What do you base this on? What data? A gut feeling?

It's frustrating to have these conversations of I feel something thus it's fact.

 

[YZT580]

Okay. I'm a young person.

I want to mow your yard. But you're out of my way. Okay, get on the bus or uber. You tell me to bring my own equipment...Okay, now I need a lift. I may or may not have a car. Now i'm lugging lawn cutting equipment across town, from place to place. do this for 2-3 weeks and all the nearby low hanging fruit is taken. What then? And does every young person do this? Saturate the market much?

Not to mention not every young person is in the shape to be working outdoors across town. Sure some are, not all are.

The go make your own work is a noble idea, it's just not practical as a systemic solution.

strawman arguments. The point is there are options that don't involve just throwing your hands up in despair and saying what's the use before asking for MAID clearance because there is no point in going on. As I have said before; You are definitely a glass half empty kind of guy

 

[Altair]

strawman arguments. The point is there are options that don't involve just throwing your hands up in despair and saying what's the use before asking for MAID clearance because there is no point in going on. As I have said before; You are definitely a glass half empty kind of guy

Your solution to youth unemployment being work two jobs or make your own work is akin to let them eat cake.

Sorry if that's glass half empty, but your "solution" isn't reasonable by any metric.

Don't believe me, go on reddit, suggest that on any subreddit with young people and prepare to be laughed out the room.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I'm not a statistician. I don't make the categories. Some great idea fairy decided that youth unemployment is 15-24.

But rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater, maybe gleam what you can from the statistics we have to go off of?

Again, all you're bring to the conversation is "I feel" or "I suspect". What do you base this on? What data? A gut feeling?

It's frustrating to have these conversations of I feel something thus it's fact.

Supposedly StatsCan is following this guideline.

"The 15 to 24 age range used by Statistics Canada is the global standard set by the International Labour Organization (ILO) to specifically measure the transition of individuals from full-time education into the workforce."

"However, because the 15-24 bracket lumps together high-schoolers looking for part-time work with university graduates starting their careers, economists often break it down further (e.g., separating 15-19 from 20-24) to get a clearer picture of the job market"

The range of 15-19 and 20-24 is alot more logical and its a break (especially under the old 'Grade 13 era') of those in high school and those out of high school.