Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

[Brad Sallows]

Take the average income number for the year I mentioned and put it in the inflation calculator. Thats where I get my numbers.

Sure. I'll stick with the Statscan numbers for medians.

There is one aspect, only, in which "younger generations" are at a disadvantage. Home prices. Everything else is gravy. Tech has never been more advanced; availability of consumer goods has never been more widespread; and right now, all kinds of employment opportunities exist. "We need more people working in X" has practically become the national motto.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Bit of a side track but germane. The advantage of a company pension is that the company extracts that 50 bucks I mentioned before it is paid out thus producing a forced savings. Yes it is part of the total pay package but the majority of people spend according to their take home and there is nothing left at the end. Our education system should be teaching money management as a compulsory course in H.S. with a thorough explanation of savings and self-administered pension plans. Whilst the illustrated paragraph is a great idea, for many people it is an impossibility given COL. and even for those whose budget would allow such investment it is a very disciplined individual who can actually do it.

Sure, I know the advantage of "forced savings". People have known the fable of the grasshopper and the ant, or some variation, probably since pre-recorded times. Inability to onboard that, even in an age of plenty, is why we have OAS.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Sure. I'll stick with the Statscan numbers for medians.

There is one aspect, only, in which "younger generations" are at a disadvantage. Home prices. Everything else is gravy. Tech has never been more advanced; availability of consumer goods has never been more widespread; and right now, all kinds of employment opportunities exist. "We need more people working in X" has practically become the national motto.

Ahh yes the main thing you need to survive has gone up dramatically but I am going to discount that because it doesn’t suit my narrative.

The apartment I rented in 2014 was 860$ a month. That same apartment today is 2k a month. Wages haven’t doubled. Cars are more expensive, food is more expensive. Yeah sure your not paying 300$ for cable but that doesn’t mean much when you struggle to pay for the basics.

 

[captloadie]

Ahh yes the main thing you need to survive has gone up dramatically but I am going to discount that because it doesn’t suit my narrative.

The apartment I rented in 2014 was 860$ a month. That same apartment today is 2k a month. Wages haven’t doubled. Cars are more expensive, food is more expensive. Yeah sure your not paying 300$ for cable but that doesn’t mean much when you struggle to pay for the basics.

The greatest issue about affordability for young people is that they believe it is their right to have work/life balance right out of high school, and to have the same life they had when living with their parents. Very few understand what hardship is until its too late. Do you know who can afford their own houses these days in their early thirties? Individuals who work six and seven days a week and multiple jobs and save that money up. Not those who live at home, work 35-40 hours a week and then spend all their money on vacations, weekends away, Starbucks, and wine nights.

Oh, and the other group that can afford housing. Immigrant families where all eight family members work whatever jobs they can get for as many hours as possible, and pool their earnings. And when they have enough saved up, they buy a local business and run it successfully. And then purchase the next one, and so on, creating employment for the ever growing family.

This used to be the way family farms, and family run businesses worked, until the newest generations decided they didn't want to put in the effort to keep the wealth generating businesses going because the work was too hard.

 

[Altair]

The greatest issue about affordability for young people is that they believe it is their right to have work/life balance right out of high school, and to have the same life they had when living with their parents. Very few understand what hardship is until its too late. Do you know who can afford their own houses these days in their early thirties? Individuals who work six and seven days a week and multiple jobs and save that money up. Not those who live at home, work 35-40 hours a week and then spend all their money on vacations, weekends away, Starbucks, and wine nights.

Oh, and the other group that can afford housing. Immigrant families where all eight family members work whatever jobs they can get for as many hours as possible, and pool their earnings. And when they have enough saved up, they buy a local business and run it successfully. And then purchase the next one, and so on, creating employment for the ever growing family.

This used to be the way family farms, and family run businesses worked, until the newest generations decided they didn't want to put in the effort to keep the wealth generating businesses going because the work was too hard.

It's a rigged system.

For every dollar someone saves, the price they need for something else goes up 2. The job market and youth unemployment has been fluctuating and inconsistent since 2008. And now AI is eating away at jobs that many young people used as entry level.

You know why people go on vacations, starbucks and wine nights? Also put off having kids and getting married? Because if you're never going to catch up, save enough for a downpayment, might as well go the instant gratification route. It's financial nihilism on a mass scale.

That's what happens when the system is rigged.

 

[Altair]

‘Financial nihilism' is pushing many gen Z Canadians to adopt risky investing, with worrying consequences

Given the economic constraints younger people face, these 'YOLO' and 'vibes-based' strategies could be absurdly rational. Find out more.

financialpost.com

Good news: Data suggest that young Canadians are more financially engaged than prior generations. For instance, according to data from the British Columbia Securities Commission (BCSC), over the past two decades the share of people aged 18-24 investing in securities has more than doubled.

The bad news, however, is that this rising interest among generation Z in investing isn’t expressed by disciplined long-term strategies such as purchasing low-risk mutual funds to build a healthy retirement portfolio, or other traditional financial advice, but increasingly by way of high-risk trading strategies to try and grow portfolios quickly and aggressively, according to the BCSC.

And this rise of financial engagement isn’t a result of an increase in disposable income. Gen Z doesn’t have any. They’re just surviving, according to several recent surveys. Many younger Canadians believe retirement planning will be more difficult than it was for their parents, according to a recent poll by the Bank of Montreal.

Instead, the increasing prevalence of high-risk investment strategies is a symptom of a worrying rise of “financial nihilism” among young adults.

Financial nihilism, a term attributed to podcaster Demetri Kofinas, is a philosophy that forgoes long-term financial security in favour of near-term consumption and high-risk investments such as meme stocks and cryptocurrencies.

This philosophy can be seen in spending patterns, as younger Canadians, more pessimistic about their economic prospects, increasingly favour splurging on small luxuries such as travel, as opposed to saving for a down payment or retirement. This so called “doom spending” helped fuel the 30 per cent rise in gen Z consumer debt — more than any other age bracket.

In the realm of investing, this means that younger generations are more likely to be involved in speculative crypto investments, “vibes” based investment strategies, and high-risk “YOLO” (you only live once) trades, putting a significant portion of their capital on a single, risky investment in the hope of a substantial return.At the same time, young Canadians are now relying less on professional financial advisors, and increasingly managing their investments themselves, preferring social media and online sources for information and guidance.

And while financial experts might view these investment strategies as short-sighted and irresponsible, for many this behaviour could be viewed as absurdly rational.As wage growth decouples from cost of living, youth unemployment rates skyrocket, and young people give up on ever owning a home, starting a family or retiring by following traditional financial advice, it should come as no surprise that younger Canadians are open to financially risky behaviour.

Housing costs remain far above historical averages. The mortgage payment on a representative home in Canada in the fourth quarter was more than 50 per cent of median household incomes — well above the long-term average of 40.5 per cent, according to National Bank of Canada.

In the choice between forever renting and economic precarity or a high-risk trade that could help with a down payment, treating investments like a roulette table doesn’t seem so ridiculous.

When you have a generation deciding it's better to just give up, you know the system is absolutely broken.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The greatest issue about affordability for young people is that they believe it is their right to have work/life balance right out of high school, and to have the same life they had when living with their parents. Very few understand what hardship is until its too late. Do you know who can afford their own houses these days in their early thirties? Individuals who work six and seven days a week and multiple jobs and save that money up. Not those who live at home, work 35-40 hours a week and then spend all their money on vacations, weekends away, Starbucks, and wine nights.

Oh, and the other group that can afford housing. Immigrant families where all eight family members work whatever jobs they can get for as many hours as possible, and pool their earnings. And when they have enough saved up, they buy a local business and run it successfully. And then purchase the next one, and so on, creating employment for the ever growing family.

This used to be the way family farms, and family run businesses worked, until the newest generations decided they didn't want to put in the effort to keep the wealth generating businesses going because the work was too hard.

So what your admitting is it is much harder for them to get ahead.

Youth employment rates are down, those jobs they do find pay peanuts well requiring very expensive educations to get in the door. They are drowning in student debt which is basically a car payment you can’t default on (unlike previous generations which could, my uncle did this).

They shouldn’t have to work 3 jobs for a decade+ just to barely afford housing. The current generation is working the same amount as previous generations at their age so it isn’t ‘laziness’.

The biggest difference is the fact that before you could make poor financial decisions when you were young and you could recover from them. Today making those same poor decisions means they won’t ever recover.

Another thing to add in about wages, pensions are much worse today for the average Canadian. That is another thing which needs to get factored in to how much less they make per hour. Long term it is creating a slow burning crisis.

The difficulty in getting ahead today is much worse than even a decade ago. I couldn’t be where I am at today if I had to do it in the modern era (and I am only in my 30s).

This isn’t greed talking, I worked and got mine, I also want others to be able to get theirs. Otherwise we are acknowledging that life will be worse for my children if we don’t do something about it today.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Ahh yes the main thing you need to survive has gone up dramatically but I am going to discount that because it doesn’t suit my narrative.

I don't mean to discount it. I mean to disqualify the general "things are worse for my generation" whinge. There is one thing.

The apartment I rented in 2014 was 860$ a month. That same apartment today is 2k a month. Wages haven’t doubled. Cars are more expensive, food is more expensive. Yeah sure your not paying 300$ for cable but that doesn’t mean much when you struggle to pay for the basics.

"X is more expensive" is usually a consequence of "X has more features and capabilities". It is even part of the reason housing is more expensive. If you want to drive one of those new-fangled things with all the extra gadgetry, you pay for it.

Despite recent years' inflation, cost of food relative to means is still at what is probably an all-time low (or near it) compared to previous decades (and millennia).

 

[Brad Sallows]

You know why people go on vacations, starbucks and wine nights? Also put off having kids and getting married? Because if you're never going to catch up, save enough for a downpayment, might as well go the instant gratification route. It's financial nihilism on a mass scale.

So the complaint is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. "I can't get ahead because I don't see the point of trying", which certainly provides an easy excuse for self-indulgence in the present.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Youth employment rates are down, those jobs they do find pay peanuts well requiring very expensive educations to get in the door. They are drowning in student debt which is basically a car payment you can’t default on (unlike previous generations which could, my uncle did this).

They shouldn’t have to work 3 jobs for a decade+ just to barely afford housing. The current generation is working the same amount as previous generations at their age so it isn’t ‘laziness’.

Then they're doing it wrong. I suspect the root problem for most people is "I can't find the job I want to do for the amount of money I need for the lifestyle I want to live", not "I can't find a job that pays a living wage". Drifting along for a few years after HS graduation was not a luxury afforded to any generation born before about the mid-1950s.

 

[Altair]

So the complaint is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. "I can't get ahead because so I don't see the point of trying", which certainly provides an easy excuse for self-indulgence in the present.

Fixed your post. You were so close,I just helped you along.

 

[Altair]

Then they're doing it wrong. I suspect the root problem for most people is "I can't find the job I want to do for the amount of money I need for the lifestyle I want to live", not "I can't find a job that pays a living wage". Drifting along for a few years after HS graduation was not a luxury afforded to any generation born before about the mid-1950s.

Canada’s job market improves, but summer hiring remains tough for youth

Canada’s overall unemployment rate declined to 6.6 per cent in May, but many young people are still finding it difficult to secure summer work. For 15-year-old Eliana Tesgzeab, the search has been discouraging. “It makes me feel frustrated sometimes, and it makes me lose hope,” she said. After...

montreal.citynews.ca

Canada’s overall unemployment rate declined to 6.6 per cent in May, but many young people are still finding it difficult to secure summer work.

For 15-year-old Eliana Tesgzeab, the search has been discouraging.

“It makes me feel frustrated sometimes, and it makes me lose hope,” she said.

After spending weeks submitting applications, she is still waiting for an employer to call.

“I feel like it’s really hard because there’s a lot more people coming from different countries, and there’s less opportunity for younger kids to look for jobs because they want more people that work full-time. So it’s pretty difficult.”

Her experience reflects a broader trend.

According to Statistics Canada, while the national unemployment rate fell from 6.9 per cent in April to 6.6 per cent in May, the youth unemployment rate for those aged 15 to 24 remained significantly higher at 13.4 per cent.

Although that marks the first decline since January, the youth unemployment rate has remained above its pre-pandemic average of 10.8 per cent since January 2024.

Lina Raffoul, head manager at Horizon Carrière in Saint-Leonard, said the organization has seen a noticeable decline in opportunities for young job seekers.

“We have been noticing a big difference. We’re talking about 25 per cent less job offers this year than in an average year. And unfortunately, it is not a one-year issue. It’s not just one specific situation happening now, but it is more and more a constant reality that we are facing for the jobs of youth.”

Raffoul said employers are being more cautious about creating new positions, leaving young workers among the first to feel the effects.

“Usually, when there are less opportunities, youth are the first to face those difficulties. It’s usually opening jobs, jobs that are also in the front line. So there is one part that’s related to the market being more, I would say, trying to open less opportunities at this point, less jobs, be more prudent in their way of offering new opportunities.”

She added that several factors are contributing to the trend, including employers being more cautious about hiring, reluctance to create new positions, and the increasing presence of artificial intelligence in entry-level work.

When in doubt, blame the kids, call them lazy.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Fixed your post. You were so close,I just helped you along.

No, you're just being an impolite ass.

 

[Brad Sallows]

When in doubt, blame the kids, call them lazy.

"the youth unemployment rate for those aged 15 to 24"

15 to 24. Let that sink in. 24 is long enough to complete a two-year vocational program and get four years up on a trade, or long enough to complete a university degree and get two years into an occupation or profession.

Statistics that mix high-school teens with adults past Gr 12 are very close to useless.

 

[Altair]

No, you're just being an impolite ass.

I mean, you were a word off. It's not because young people don't see the point in trying that they are not getting ahead. They aren't getting ahead so they don't see the point in trying.

Just reassign the cause and effect and boom, you come to the correct conclusion.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I mean, you were a word off. It's not because young people don't see the point in trying that they are not getting ahead. They aren't getting ahead so they don't see the point in trying.

Just reassign the cause and effect and boom, you come to the correct conclusion.

The assumption it's the correct conclusion is unwarranted. You want it to be simple cause-effect one way; I see it going the other way and probably working as a downward spiral. If people aren't even starting to try because they've looked around and decided it's too hard, it's just self-fulfilling prophecy. If they give up because they're not matching what they think their parents achieved on the timeline of life, it's self-fulfilling prophecy combined with unreasonable and selective expectations. ("I can't afford a house where I want to live yet, and nothing else in the modern world counts when evaluating my circumstances.") It's not like there's a multi-year Depression going and it's OK to just stop trying because there's government and parents to look after you.

Having a name for it ("financial nihilism") doesn't excuse it. Run that whine by any generations of the past 5 millennia. There is no entitlement to success.

 

[Altair]

"the youth unemployment rate for those aged 15 to 24"

15 to 24. Let that sink in. 24 is long enough to complete a two-year vocational program and get four years up on a trade, or long enough to complete a university degree and get two years into an occupation or profession.

Statistics that mix high-school teens with adults past Gr 12 are very close to useless.

Altair: here are Statistics

Brad Sallows: I don't trust them

Also Brad Sallows

Then they're doing it wrong. I suspect the root problem for most people is "I can't find the job I want to do for the amount of money I need for the lifestyle I want to live", not "I can't find a job that pays a living wage". Drifting along for a few years after HS graduation was not a luxury afforded to any generation born before about the mid-1950s.

TLDR; Trust me bro.

 

[Czech_pivo]

"the youth unemployment rate for those aged 15 to 24"

15 to 24. Let that sink in. 24 is long enough to complete a two-year vocational program and get four years up on a trade, or long enough to complete a university degree and get two years into an occupation or profession.

Statistics that mix high-school teens with adults past Gr 12 are very close to useless.

I agree, the age range is too broad in this case. Better representation would be 15-22, add the 23-24 into the next age bracket.
Would love to listen to the explanation as to why ages 23 and 24 need to be included with a kid in grade 10 looking for 10-12 hours a week at McD's.

 

[Altair]

I agree, the age range is too broad in this case. Better representation would be 15-22, add the 23-24 into the next age bracket.
Would love to listen to the explanation as to why ages 23 and 24 need to be included with a kid in grade 10 looking for 10-12 hours a week at McD's.

Would 18/19 to 24 or maybe 26 be better? Sure.

but we get the statistics we get. And the statistics we get show that it's not the fault of young Canadians. There are just not as many jobs out there, not as many entry level positions and not as many people willing to hire a young person.

So to go around and blame a young person for facing that set of circumstances and call them lazy or entitled is asinine