14 Dec 2025: Bondi Beach Australia Hanukkah Attack

[daftandbarmy]

I think he needs to replace the word assumption with "desire".

An actual assumption is "there will always be terrorists"... therefore, we should Probably take some sort of precautions/security measures to contain the threat.

Meanwhile every Jewish group in Canada is quietly wondering when it's their turn to experience this.

Or Filipino street festival...

This seems to be the age of the 'Massacres of the Innocents'. Police and other security services, and their political masters, need to be ready for that...

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Here’s what the Premier of NSW and NSW Police Commissioner are talking about. Here's the latest from the NSW government.

Live: Premier says Bondi Beach shooting will bring 'overwhelming' response

Fifteen people were killed, including a 10-year-old girl. One of the two gunmen has also died, while a further 42 people were taken to hospital. Follow live.

www.abc.net.au

I've seen this movie before:

I never thought what I used to think was comedy would actually play out for real in my life.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Or Filipino street festival...

This seems to be the age of the 'Massacres of the Innocents'. Police and other security services, and their political masters, need to be ready for that...

Indeed, and the innocents have an astonishing level of collective helplessness.

My boss was bragging to me about the thousands of $$$ he spent on his home security system and showing me how it sends messages to his phone when all his motion sensors and cameras pick up something. He was going off about all the home invasions, etc and he wants to make sure his family is protected.

I told him "oh wow, my system is WAY BETTER and I only spent $500.00 on it"... he was surprised and asked if I had any photos of it?

I then showed him a picture of my Mossberg 500 12 gauge

 

[OldSolduer]

Or Filipino street festival...

This seems to be the age of the 'Massacres of the Innocents'. Police and other security services, and their political masters, need to be ready for that...

Maybe it’s time to take the kid gloves off.

 

[brihard]

I'm no longer really paying attention to tactics or training but looks like the Police aren't trained in IARD and their TTPs appear to be radically different from what would be seen here, in the US or somewhere like the UK or Mainland Europe.

IARD instructor hat on.

So, to be fair, it’s tough to gauge their TTPs off what we see. Active shooter training tends to emphasize indoor tactics. Good outdoor stuff is less common. Also, we don’t know if any of the police on scene did immediately move to the threat but were engaged and suppressed or wounded. It may be that there was an immediate flawless two man IARD response- but that they both got shot quickly. Pistols versus long guns outdoors in the terrain we saw here is a losing proposition.

I’m going to speculate, but form working various events myself, I suspect there were police on scene, and that they were probably wandering and mingling, seeing and being scene. They were probably as shocked as anyone else when shooting started. They would also have been obvious targets.

Having been to Australia and NZ, this isn't particularly surprising. Rank & file Kiwi Police aren't even armed with firearms.

The police forces there in terms of Armed Response seem to be similar to what the UK was like 30 years ago. Rank and file British Police aren't armed either but their Armed Response Units are constantly patrolling and response is generally minutes away.

NSW state police (there’s no municipal police in Australia) are all armed with pistols. Glocks I believe. General patrol officers are now trained or equipped with patrol rifles. Compare that to even here in Canada where some police services have everyone on the road equipped with a C8 and a set of plates. Australians still in a “this doesn’t happen here” mentality. Except it does, whether terrorism, or SovCit notions out in the boonies.

In the videos I noticed some shirt and tie desk cops on scene in the early response. I surmise that they probably ran from the police station a few hundred meters away. Some weren’t even wearing vests or identifiable as police. IMO, speaking as a plainclothes guy myself, there’s a culture of complacency. I’m one of few in my office who actually carry my chunk, a mag, and some handcuffs all day even in the office. And my vests, Kevlar and ceramic, and both at my desk ready to go. I bet if we had a ‘bad day’ I’d be one of a tiny number in the building ready to go in less than several minutes. And it pisses me off. I bet it’s the same at police offices everywhere.

I expect some AARs and Inquiries will probably lead to some radical changes, similar to Moncton/Mayerthorpe.

I bet so.

Also, in one of the videos, you can clearly see a police truck drive right by the shooters while they were both on the bridge, probably trying to get their bearings.

Understandable. They probably have a rushed and unclear dispatch, and probably were sent to where bodies were dropping. They would have been tunnelled in on getting there safely without smoking anyone in the parking lot. Easy to drive past something when you’re hauling ass; we’ve all done it.

Maybe it’s time to take the kid gloves off.

Well, it doesn’t sound like they had indicators for this one. The father was a law abiding gun owner for a decade. Ultimately police shot them both and killed one, so I don’t see any relevant kid gloves here.

Sometimes shitty people act without tipping their hand. Not everyone is stupid enough to get flagged and caught first.

 

[lenaitch]

I think there is a risk in assessing Australian police response and tactics through a Canadian or North American lens. As far as I know, all uniformed police in Australia, including NSW, are armed. I couldn't find any reference regarding patrol long guns. Most police services here didn't either up until not that many years ago. RIghtly or wrongly, police equipment, tactics and training is always in 'catch up mode'. We were a pretty peaceable kingdom - until we weren't.

The comment about overloaded cel towers is bang-on. Not only that, the emergency call centres ('000') would likely be completely inundated with panicked calls, likely providing conflicting and confusing information to multiple call takers all at once.

Some weren’t even wearing vests or identifiable as police. IMO, speaking as a plainclothes guy myself, there’s a culture of complacency. I’m one of few in my office who actually carry my chunk, a mag, and some handcuffs all day even in the office. And my vests, Kevlar and ceramic, and both at my desk ready to go. I bet if we had a ‘bad day’ I’d be one of a tiny number in the building ready to go in less than several minutes. And it pisses me off. I bet it’s the same at police offices everywhere.

It absolutely is.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

IARD instructor hat on.

So, to be fair, it’s tough to gauge their TTPs off what we see. Active shooter training tends to emphasize indoor tactics. Good outdoor stuff is less common. Also, we don’t know if any of the police on scene did immediately move to the threat but were engaged and suppressed or wounded. It may be that there was an immediate flawless two man IARD response- but that they both got shot quickly. Pistols versus long guns outdoors in the terrain we saw here is a losing proposition.

I’m going to speculate, but form working various events myself, I suspect there were police on scene, and that they were probably wandering and mingling, seeing and being scene. They were probably as shocked as anyone else when shooting started. They would also have been obvious targets.

Yah, I was going off the lack of long guns, lack of any sort of ballistic plates, the lack of containment of the scene. What was even more crazy to me was when the assailants had been shot and weren't visible anymore, all the randos just strolling up on to the bridge as if these fellas weren't still armed. A couple of the General Patrol Officers ran up without their guns even drawn.

Like dude, just because they've sprung a leak doesn't mean they can't still cap your ass as one last act of defiance before going to visit Allah.

NSW state police (there’s no municipal police in Australia) are all armed with pistols. Glocks I believe. General patrol officers are now trained or equipped with patrol rifles. Compare that to even here in Canada where some police services have everyone on the road equipped with a C8 and a set of plates. Australians still in a “this doesn’t happen here” mentality. Except it does, whether terrorism, or SovCit notions out in the boonies.

That's exactly the mentality. My brother lived and worked in Australia and that was his general impression of ANZACs whenever they discussed these issues.

In the videos I noticed some shirt and tie desk cops on scene in the early response. I surmise that they probably ran from the police station a few hundred meters away. Some weren’t even wearing vests or identifiable as police. IMO, speaking as a plainclothes guy myself, there’s a culture of complacency. I’m one of few in my office who actually carry my chunk, a mag, and some handcuffs all day even in the office. And my vests, Kevlar and ceramic, and both at my desk ready to go. I bet if we had a ‘bad day’ I’d be one of a tiny number in the building ready to go in less than several minutes. And it pisses me off. I bet it’s the same at police offices everywhere.

It's the same in every work place, different environment but my work place is no better. I had a few big incidents where I was reminded again that there are those that "do" and those who talk a big game but don't have their stuff wired tight when shit hits the fan.

I bet so.

Understandable. They probably have a rushed and unclear dispatch, and probably were sent to where bodies were dropping. They would have been tunnelled in on getting there safely without smoking anyone in the parking lot. Easy to drive past something when you’re hauling ass; we’ve all done it.

Of course, it's an emergency and you don't know what you're walking in to. One thing I was really thankful for in my last territory was we had no cellular coverage so when I was in the field I was only reachable by radio so I could just go about doing my job.

Well, it doesn’t sound like they had indicators for this one. The father was a law abiding gun owner for a decade. Ultimately police shot them both and killed one, so I don’t see any relevant kid gloves here.

Sometimes shitty people act without tipping their hand. Not everyone is stupid enough to get flagged and caught first.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I think there is a risk in assessing Australian police response and tactics through a Canadian or North American lens. As far as I know, all uniformed police in Australia, including NSW, are armed. I couldn't find any reference regarding patrol long guns. Most police services here didn't either up until not that many years ago. RIghtly or wrongly, police equipment, tactics and training is always in 'catch up mode'. We were a pretty peaceable kingdom - until we weren't.

The comment about overloaded cel towers is bang-on. Not only that, the emergency call centres ('000') would likely be completely inundated with panicked calls, likely providing conflicting and confusing information to multiple call takers all at once.



It absolutely is.

Oh absolutely. My point is really that they will need to have an assessment and make some modifications.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Looking at this situation from a tactical lens, the shooters (and actual multiple shooters is rare) really stacked the deck in their favour. They were shooting initially from the high ground down onto a mass crowd at a beachfront park. Not a lot of places for victims to take cover.

Beaches are a weak point. Lack of cover in a large open area with lots of people. The Nice attack of 2016 is a example of how bad it can get (86 dead, 458 wounded). Fortunately these attackers focused on using firearms instead of trucks.

It is too bad being drawn and quartered isn’t a acceptable punishment anymore for the surviving attacker.

 

[Booter]

I think there is a risk in assessing Australian police response and tactics through a Canadian or North American lens. As far as I know, all uniformed police in Australia, including NSW, are armed. I couldn't find any reference regarding patrol long guns. Most police services here didn't either up until not that many years ago. RIghtly or wrongly, police equipment, tactics and training is always in 'catch up mode'. We were a pretty peaceable kingdom - until we weren't.

The comment about overloaded cel towers is bang-on. Not only that, the emergency call centres ('000') would likely be completely inundated with panicked calls, likely providing conflicting and confusing information to multiple call takers all at once.



It absolutely is.

their instructors trained with our instructors. Even with guns they are culturally different in how they use and think about them. I’m not making any judgement calls on how they deploy. You can do everything right and have a negative outcome- you can have everything come off the rails and one window open and win.

There is a large municipal service in Canada who’s officers don’t pull their guns in things that they should that are out of whack with the rest of us and they are egregiously out of step.

There is another large municipal service in Canada that still don’t train their full front line in patrol rifle use.

Things are done differently different places.

Until 1998 RNC officers kept their pistols in their police car trunk and needed authorization to retrieve them if a call called for it.

It’s all relative and evolution by incident