OldSolduer
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Maybe it’s time to take the kid gloves off.
14 Dec 2025: Bondi Beach Australia Hanukkah Attack
- Thread starter brihard
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IARD instructor hat on.
So, to be fair, it’s tough to gauge their TTPs off what we see. Active shooter training tends to emphasize indoor tactics. Good outdoor stuff is less common. Also, we don’t know if any of the police on scene did immediately move to the threat but were engaged and suppressed or wounded. It may be that there was an immediate flawless two man IARD response- but that they both got shot quickly. Pistols versus long guns outdoors in the terrain we saw here is a losing proposition.
I’m going to speculate, but form working various events myself, I suspect there were police on scene, and that they were probably wandering and mingling, seeing and being scene. They were probably as shocked as anyone else when shooting started. They would also have been obvious targets.
NSW state police (there’s no municipal police in Australia) are all armed with pistols. Glocks I believe. General patrol officers are now trained or equipped with patrol rifles. Compare that to even here in Canada where some police services have everyone on the road equipped with a C8 and a set of plates. Australians still in a “this doesn’t happen here” mentality. Except it does, whether terrorism, or SovCit notions out in the boonies.
In the videos I noticed some shirt and tie desk cops on scene in the early response. I surmise that they probably ran from the police station a few hundred meters away. Some weren’t even wearing vests or identifiable as police. IMO, speaking as a plainclothes guy myself, there’s a culture of complacency. I’m one of few in my office who actually carry my chunk, a mag, and some handcuffs all day even in the office. And my vests, Kevlar and ceramic, and both at my desk ready to go. I bet if we had a ‘bad day’ I’d be one of a tiny number in the building ready to go in less than several minutes. And it pisses me off. I bet it’s the same at police offices everywhere.
I bet so.
Understandable. They probably have a rushed and unclear dispatch, and probably were sent to where bodies were dropping. They would have been tunnelled in on getting there safely without smoking anyone in the parking lot. Easy to drive past something when you’re hauling ass; we’ve all done it.
Well, it doesn’t sound like they had indicators for this one. The father was a law abiding gun owner for a decade. Ultimately police shot them both and killed one, so I don’t see any relevant kid gloves here.
Sometimes shitty people act without tipping their hand. Not everyone is stupid enough to get flagged and caught first.
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I think there is a risk in assessing Australian police response and tactics through a Canadian or North American lens. As far as I know, all uniformed police in Australia, including NSW, are armed. I couldn't find any reference regarding patrol long guns. Most police services here didn't either up until not that many years ago. RIghtly or wrongly, police equipment, tactics and training is always in 'catch up mode'. We were a pretty peaceable kingdom - until we weren't.
The comment about overloaded cel towers is bang-on. Not only that, the emergency call centres ('000') would likely be completely inundated with panicked calls, likely providing conflicting and confusing information to multiple call takers all at once.
It absolutely is.
The comment about overloaded cel towers is bang-on. Not only that, the emergency call centres ('000') would likely be completely inundated with panicked calls, likely providing conflicting and confusing information to multiple call takers all at once.
It absolutely is.
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Yah, I was going off the lack of long guns, lack of any sort of ballistic plates, the lack of containment of the scene. What was even more crazy to me was when the assailants had been shot and weren't visible anymore, all the randos just strolling up on to the bridge as if these fellas weren't still armed. A couple of the General Patrol Officers ran up without their guns even drawn.
Like dude, just because they've sprung a leak doesn't mean they can't still cap your ass as one last act of defiance before going to visit Allah.
That's exactly the mentality. My brother lived and worked in Australia and that was his general impression of ANZACs whenever they discussed these issues.
It's the same in every work place, different environment but my work place is no better. I had a few big incidents where I was reminded again that there are those that "do" and those who talk a big game but don't have their stuff wired tight when shit hits the fan.
Of course, it's an emergency and you don't know what you're walking in to. One thing I was really thankful for in my last territory was we had no cellular coverage so when I was in the field I was only reachable by radio so I could just go about doing my job.
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Oh absolutely. My point is really that they will need to have an assessment and make some modifications.
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Beaches are a weak point. Lack of cover in a large open area with lots of people. The Nice attack of 2016 is a example of how bad it can get (86 dead, 458 wounded). Fortunately these attackers focused on using firearms instead of trucks.
It is too bad being drawn and quartered isn’t a acceptable punishment anymore for the surviving attacker.
Booter
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their instructors trained with our instructors. Even with guns they are culturally different in how they use and think about them. I’m not making any judgement calls on how they deploy. You can do everything right and have a negative outcome- you can have everything come off the rails and one window open and win.
There is a large municipal service in Canada who’s officers don’t pull their guns in things that they should that are out of whack with the rest of us and they are egregiously out of step.
There is another large municipal service in Canada that still don’t train their full front line in patrol rifle use.
Things are done differently different places.
Until 1998 RNC officers kept their pistols in their police car trunk and needed authorization to retrieve them if a call called for it.
It’s all relative and evolution by incident
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Those who haven't already had at least a taste ...
B'NAI BRITH CANADA REPORT: Antisemitism Reaches Record Levels - B'nai Brith Canada
Cliquez ici pour le français Israel-Hamas War, Campus Turmoil, Spur Hate Incidents, Annual Audit Reveals April 7, 2025 OTTAWA – Antisemitism in Canada has reached perilous, record-setting heights, according to the latest edition of our Annual Audit of Antisemitic Incidents. It is a stark warning...
www.bnaibrith.ca
Shots fired at Toronto Jewish girls school, police investigating (CBC News Toronto)
No injuries reported, but police say guns and gangs task force, hate crime unit are investigating
www.cija.ca
Montreal-area synagogue firebombed for the second time since October 2023
No injuries reported and no arrests have been made, police say.
thecjn.ca
Canadian authorities respond to bomb threat emailed to more than 100 Jewish institutions
The Federal Policing National Security Program is investigating the source.
thecjn.ca
daftandbarmy
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I wonder what happened there... or didn't
One of the survivors of the terror attack at a Bondi Beach Hanukkah celebration said four police officers just “froze” during the 20-minute rampage on Sunday that killed 11.
Eyewitness Shmulik Scuri said he was with his family when the two suspects began firing at the crowd of worshippers from a nearby bridge.
“For 20 minutes. They shoot, shoot. Change magazines. And just shoot,” the witness told reporters.
“Twenty minutes, there was four policemen there. Nobody give fire back. Nothing. Like they froze,” he said of the slow response. “I don’t understand why.”
nypost.com
Bondi Beach terror survivor describes how cops ‘froze’ during 20-minute shooting rampage: ‘I don’t understand why’
One of the survivors of the terror attack at a Bondi Beach Hanukkah celebration said four police officers just “froze” during the 20-minute rampage on Sunday that killed 11.
Eyewitness Shmulik Scuri said he was with his family when the two suspects began firing at the crowd of worshippers from a nearby bridge.
“For 20 minutes. They shoot, shoot. Change magazines. And just shoot,” the witness told reporters.
“Twenty minutes, there was four policemen there. Nobody give fire back. Nothing. Like they froze,” he said of the slow response. “I don’t understand why.”
Bondi Beach terror survivor describes how cops ‘froze’ during 20-minute shooting rampage: ‘I don’t understand why’
The eyewitness said he was with his family when the two suspects began firing at the crowd of worshippers from a nearby bridge.
nypost.com
Halifax Tar
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I wonder what happened there... or didn't
Bondi Beach terror survivor describes how cops ‘froze’ during 20-minute shooting rampage: ‘I don’t understand why’
One of the survivors of the terror attack at a Bondi Beach Hanukkah celebration said four police officers just “froze” during the 20-minute rampage on Sunday that killed 11.
Eyewitness Shmulik Scuri said he was with his family when the two suspects began firing at the crowd of worshippers from a nearby bridge.
“For 20 minutes. They shoot, shoot. Change magazines. And just shoot,” the witness told reporters.
“Twenty minutes, there was four policemen there. Nobody give fire back. Nothing. Like they froze,” he said of the slow response. “I don’t understand why.”
Bondi Beach terror survivor describes how cops ‘froze’ during 20-minute shooting rampage: ‘I don’t understand why’
The eyewitness said he was with his family when the two suspects began firing at the crowd of worshippers from a nearby bridge.
Do the Aussies coppers have guns ? If they aren't armed, I can understand why they didn't fight back.
Authorities identified the father as of Indian origin. The son was born and raised in Australia. Mom’s Italian.
It wasn’t 20 minutes. Probably 6 or 7 from first gunshots to both shooters down. Almost all of it is on a multitude of videos.I wonder what happened there... or didn't
Bondi Beach terror survivor describes how cops ‘froze’ during 20-minute shooting rampage: ‘I don’t understand why’
One of the survivors of the terror attack at a Bondi Beach Hanukkah celebration said four police officers just “froze” during the 20-minute rampage on Sunday that killed 11.
Eyewitness Shmulik Scuri said he was with his family when the two suspects began firing at the crowd of worshippers from a nearby bridge.
“For 20 minutes. They shoot, shoot. Change magazines. And just shoot,” the witness told reporters.
“Twenty minutes, there was four policemen there. Nobody give fire back. Nothing. Like they froze,” he said of the slow response. “I don’t understand why.”
Bondi Beach terror survivor describes how cops ‘froze’ during 20-minute shooting rampage: ‘I don’t understand why’
The eyewitness said he was with his family when the two suspects began firing at the crowd of worshippers from a nearby bridge.
Most police will never have to fire their guns over their careers. Most will never be shot at, all the more so in Australia. I suspect their training for these events is lacking and they were not psychologically primed. That said, there were also uniformed security on site and the witness - already proven inaccurate about duration - may have misidentified some of them as police.
Aussie police all carry pistols. NSW police do not have patrol rifles/carbines or other long guns available to normal patrol officers. Most that I saw didn’t have rifle plate carriers. The police on the grounds were under fire from two gunmen, one of them with a larger calibre rifle that he was clearly proficient with. The police had little hard cover and limited concealment. The shooters were elevated and had hard cover. Two police were wounded. The police only had handguns at distances that I’d eyeball as being more than 50 meters for the vast majority of the event. Not sure who finally got the shooters or what they hit them with. I’ve been chatting with a few Aussie coppers, and they just don’t have a mentality there of pushing long guns out beyond specialty teams. Some eyes are presently opening.
Unfortunately the brutal reality is their cops were fucked from the get go. They were horribly disadvantaged in terrain, tactics, and equipment. There need to be changes. Despite this, police were trying to fight back- at about four minutes in the long video you clearly hear police shooting back, I surmise with pistols, and you see the shooters’ behaviour change. I believe the shooters first came under fire from police to the southeast, and about a minute later someone coming from the northwest made a shot count and dropped shooter number 1. At that point shooter number 2, though still with a rifle and elevated hard cover, was caught in a pincer until he was taken out.
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And let's not forget this guy ....
www.smh.com.au
www.abc.net.au
Hero who wrestled gun from terrorist says he’d do it again despite being ‘riddled with bullets’
Despite Ahmed al Ahmed being in a lot of pain, according to his migration lawyer, he felt as if disarming the gunman at Bondi was an act for the community.
Parents praise 'hero' son for tackling gunman during Bondi Beach attack
The ABC has spoken to the parents of Ahmed Al Ahmed who was shot after he heroically wrestled and disarmed one of the Bondi Beach attackers.
www.abc.net.au
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Some of the people probably paid for that with their lives.
Their government's first panicked response being to immediately start bleating about more gun control suggests they're not going to take any lessons learned seriously.
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daftandbarmy
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Vehicle-ramming attack - Wikipedia
152 attacks worldwide since 2000 resulting in over 500 deaths.
Allahu akbar often associated.
Maybe they should look beyond the gun, the car, the knife or the bomb.
Booter
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that’s the big lie that you can have a person who can shift gears completely into those opposing hats. No amount of training fixes the issue.
So you wind up with folks who don’t settle in easy to one or the other. If you build your organization around one type… you’re in trouble. Even if it’s not the whole org- if it’s your whole front facing every day structure on the road…you’re in trouble,
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As others upthread have said, figuring out and fixing what makes people feel so shitty about their circumstances that they're good attacking whatever target their radicalizers (be it family, friends, fellow gang-bangers, social media, etc.) point out as the cause isn't easy, sexy or cheap to fix.
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But perhaps it is the only fix...
Fabius
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I wonder if the Aussie police have found any social media activity or documentation etc that offers insight into how, why and where these people became radicalized to this extent?
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I suspect AUS int folks likely have all sorts of goodies along those lines, but I suspect (subject to correction from folks more in the know) there may be the same type of agita going from int to evidence as we see here.
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