2023 UCP Alberta election

[lenaitch]

Provincially supporting local communities to raise their own police forces doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Kind of like local school boards and local hospital boards.

Province to train and equip all officers to the same standard. Just like Normal School teachers used to were.

And provincially supervised and integrated.

There are multiple problems with multiple stand-alone police services. Each one requires a hierarchy that has to be paid. Locally here, the local town had a chief, an inspector and (I think) 3 S/Sgts. The OPP now charges them a % of an Inspector and % of a/Sgt. They no longer have to deal with HR or legal. If a car is written off, another shows up in a day or so.

Additionally, whatever it takes to operate, fund or support a police service, large or small, has to be replicated over and over again, or provided centrally by another agency. A little community police service that contracts out all but its most day-to-day services is a stand-alone police service in car door livery only.

 

[FSTO]

So you were literally just talking about the basic duty belt and body armour?

Good luck getting to the Uplands PMQ's from Carling in any timely manner. The one or two dudes sitting in the car nailing the speeders on the Carling Ring Road may need to respond to the despondent staffer crashing the East Gate. But the remainder of the MP's sitting on their arse in Building 6N certainly don't need to be booted a spurred for coffee time down by the tunnel.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

So you were literally just talking about the basic duty belt and body armour? That’s bare bones necessary kit to do the job with a modicum of safety. The MP running radar at the entrance to Carling could easily get dispatched to a domestic in the PMQ patch, or to someone who hopped the fence and is acting erratically, or to a former employee who was fired and has shown back up making threats. Police have to be ready immediately for a sudden change in circumstances and duties. Given that you were also referring to RCMP working in rural areas- yeah… You need to pause and think about what two or three rural police officers may get dispatched to, with backup half an hour out or more. There’s a long list of dead rural officers whose stories attest to this.

Being firm, fair and friendly as a police officer is absolutely usually what’s called for, but that doesn’t mean dispensing with essential safety kit. A shift to a provincial police service might see a change in shirt and pant stripe colour, but don’t expect it would fundamentally change policing at all. That said, I absolutely support a move towards provinces providing their own policing.

I think Rural Police should be equipped with the latest modular fighting rigs & tactical gear, large calibre long guns, nvgs, etc.

They should also receive additional training in a number of disciplines like tracking, bushcraft, etc.

IMO they should be at least as well equipped as I was overseas in the Gulf:



They are going in to what are, 99% of the time, benign situations; however, they should always be prepared for non-compliance:

 

[Furniture]

And they don't like it when government outsources for objective advice about the subject, either

Feds’ contract for advice on residential school unmarked graves a ‘misstep’: advocates​

The National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation says there are many problems with a $2 million contract Ottawa recently signed with an international group to get its advice on unmarked graves.

The centre says it is “deeply concerned” with the decision by Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada to hire a Netherlands-based organization to launch “an extremely sensitive engagement process” on issues surrounding possible gravesites near former residential schools.
“Beginning with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, there has been a clear understanding that any work related to the harms caused by the residential school system must be led by Indigenous Peoples and that survivors must be at the heart of this work,” Cynthia Wesley-Esquimaux, who chairs the centre’s governing circle, said in a statement on Monday.

“Putting the planned engagement process in the hands of a non-Indigenous (organization) is a misstep, and a very worrying one at that.”
The federal government recently announced it had hired the International Commission on Missing Persons to provide it with advice, after it conducted an outreach campaign with communities that signalled an interest in hearing about options around DNA analysis and other forensic techniques.

While Ottawa says it hired the commission because of the feedback from communities and it has a mandate to assist their searches, the centre and other advocates say the work around unmarked graves must happen independent of the federal government, since it funded the church-run residential school system in the first place.

Last week, the commission released a copy of the technical agreement it signed with the government in January, confirming that its final report will be due by mid-June. Federal officials will be allowed to comment on drafts of the report and be present for meetings related to the group’s work, the agreement says.

Feds’ contract for advice on residential school unmarked graves a ‘misstep’: advocates - National | Globalnews.ca

Ottawa says it hired the commission because of the feedback from communities and it has a mandate to assist their searches on unmarked graves.

globalnews.ca

I saw this article and was wondering if anyone was going to post it.

I agree that the objection is likely based on the idea that a foreign organization can't be swayed to twist findings to suit a narrative. Smart move by the Feds... even the LPC occasionally get something right, if only by accident.

 

[CBH99]

I saw this article and was wondering if anyone was going to post it.

I agree that the objection is likely based on the idea that a foreign organization can't be swayed to twist findings to suit a narrative. Smart move by the Feds... even the LPC occasionally get something right, if only by accident.

The timing seems interesting to me...

Not a peep about the Residential Schools since the last election, and now that we're about a year out from another election, the feds are finally taking some initiative in the matter...



Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[Kirkhill]

There are multiple problems with multiple stand-alone police services. Each one requires a hierarchy that has to be paid. Locally here, the local town had a chief, an inspector and (I think) 3 S/Sgts. The OPP now charges them a % of an Inspector and % of a/Sgt. They no longer have to deal with HR or legal. If a car is written off, another shows up in a day or so.

Additionally, whatever it takes to operate, fund or support a police service, large or small, has to be replicated over and over again, or provided centrally by another agency. A little community police service that contracts out all but its most day-to-day services is a stand-alone police service in car door livery only.

But wasn't the original thought behind policing that the community would be policed by the community? By upstanding citizens that the rest of the citizenry respected?

 

[lenaitch]

But wasn't the original thought behind policing that the community would be policed by the community? By upstanding citizens that the rest of the citizenry respected?

Well, true, but depending on how far you want to reference, the rules they enforced were that of the king/emperor/laird/etc. and people died of simple diseases. The world has moved on. You can't have professionals, some demanding post secondary education but at the same time make the role the equivalent of an Honorary Colonel. How would you pick such a position for Toronto, let alone Hornpayne.

Wasn't the original thought of cavalry noble knights?

They are going in to what are, 99% of the time, benign situations; however, they should always be prepared for non-compliance:

You just described law enforcement . . . anywhere. The only difference between Church and Parliament and Longlac is the amount of backup available and how many stars you see.

 

[Kirkhill]

Well, true, but depending on how far you want to reference, the rules they enforced were that of the king/emperor/laird/etc. and people died of simple diseases. The world has moved on. You can't have professionals, some demanding post secondary education but at the same time make the role the equivalent of an Honorary Colonel. How would you pick such a position for Toronto, let alone Hornpayne.

Wasn't the original thought of cavalry noble knights?

I was more thinking of the Polis.

City of Glasgow Police - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[lenaitch]

I was more thinking of the Polis.

City of Glasgow Police - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Party like it's the 1700s.

 

[Booter]

There are ground penetrating radar searches led by the communities on going. Multi year process marking anomalies. My personal opinions are somewhere in the middle- but they are also irrelevant

 

[Remius]

Misleading nonetheless.

Please explain.

 

[QV]

Please explain.

No, it's obvious and there is no point in derailing this thread any further on a topic like that.

Let's go back to celebrating the UCP and DS victory and discussing how important that win is for Canada.

 

[Remius]

No, it's obvious and there is no point in derailing this thread any further on a topic like that.

Let's go back to celebrating the UCP and DS victory and discussing how important that win is for Canada.

Except it isn’t obvious. I fully understand that some people don’t understand « scope » when it comes to studies. The fact that some thought this was a headline reinforces that.

And you are right. It has derailed.

Congrats to those that are on the winning side of that election. I do believe that this result is indeed important going forward. But for different reasons than you have.

My personal take is DS won’t last a full term as leader. But we’ll see how it goes.

 

[Halifax Tar]

overrepresentation of ____________ people as far as crimes committed is concerned.

I never understand that statement.

Is it meant to allude to something nefarious about Police and Justice systems ?

Or is it just a statement that the volume of ______ people incarcerated out weighs their total representation in the population ?

 

[Booter]

I never understand that statement.

Is it meant to allude to something nefarious about Police and Justice systems ?

Or is it just a statement that the volume of ______ people incarcerated out weighs their total representation in the population ?

That’s exactly what it means- it’s a pure numbers thing by percentage of the population- followed by the theories that it’s because of factors that may be related to systemic issues that contribute to the number- that we have an ethical obligation to address. It’s all of the above.

It is my anecdotal observation that programs that keep people out of jail lead to more victims in the community- and more victims make more people graduate from victim to victimizer as they grow up

Programs that lead to more educate and deal with social factors are better at addressing things than things like repeated bail and probation because of “factors”

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The timing seems interesting to me...

Not a peep about the Residential Schools since the last election, and now that we're about a year out from another election, the feds are finally taking some initiative in the matter...



Hmmmmmmmmm

No worries about anything tangible happening. They've been promising clean water, on reserves, for decades (every election) and still haven't delivered.

 

[Halifax Tar]

That’s exactly what it means- it’s a pure numbers thing by percentage of the population- followed by the theories that it’s because of factors that may be related to systemic issues that contribute to the number- that we have an ethical obligation to address. It’s all of the above.

It is my anecdotal observation that programs that keep people out of jail lead to more victims in the community- and more victims make more people graduate from victim to victimizer as they grow up

Programs that lead to more educate and deal with social factors are better at addressing things than things like repeated bail and probation because of “factors”

To sum up, address and fix the socio-economic roots of the problem ?

 

[Booter]

To sum up, address and fix the socio-economic roots of the problem ?

I believe that would leave you to concentrate to the soulless predators in human skin clothing and clear away a good portion of the “impulse” control criminals- who are more maladjusted than evil.

 

[OldSolduer]

I believe that would leave you to concentrate to the soulless predators in human skin clothing and clear away a good portion of the “impulse” control criminals- who are more maladjusted than evil.

Dealing with these incarcerated people almost daily I can say many of them are not too bright. The dull knife in the drawer.
There are some that ARE pure evil - like the guy that murdered a young girl in 1984. He is one of many purely evil people that society would not miss if they were no longer around.

 

[RangerRay]

The fact that the UCP lost 11 seats, and a large chunk of Calgary, in a booming economy in a naturally right-of-centre province is telling. Not to mention of anecdotes of UCP campaign workers telling people while door-knocking “Don’t worry! Smith won’t last 18 months. It’s safe to vote for us!”

If the right were split like a few years ago, Notley would be premier again.