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2024 Wildfire Season

RangerRay said:
How dare you inject “facts” and “reason” into an internet discussion! 😁
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Lots of areas I'd like to see prescribed burns into but there are also lots of areas where the risks are just too high. It's a bit like live fire rifle training....some areas are great but complex urban environments may not be the best locations. Or you end up with a very specialized force doing training in a pre-set area made safe hoping they never have to use the skill set (thinking police SWAT/JTF type training). Most of us...we're going to break some windows best case and maybe a few buildings...

It is tough though and when considering First Nation burning practices there are no simple answers. Each community has it's own traditions and usage for burning with each purpose used at different times of the year such as:
-opening up meadows for access
-wildlife control (burning a meadow in spring to burn up ticks from moose)
  • grass/prairie recovery
  • promote new shoots for animal feed
  • killing trees for firewood/tipi poles
  • war. Has been used to eliminate opposing forces
  • animal drives/buffalo jumps.

That list includes both prairie and woodland communities and as you move around the country the usage changes again. I don't know much of the interior British Columbia or coast BC traditions let alone the NWT groups or Northern SK/MB. Then add in how many different groups used overlapping areas/trading corridors and it gets really complex to manage....but not impossible.

Australia...who also have some of the same challenges on complexity have started doing a lot more of what their Aboriginies call "Cold Burning" or burning in the shoulder/winter seasons. Some US States are excellent...Florida for example is a main training school for much of the US and some other countries.

But it all starts small...and slowly build in the acceptance locally...and a burn not completed due to unsafe conditions is still valid planning.
 
daftandbarmy said:
Fort Nelson evacuated, most heading to Ft St John...

bc.ctvnews.ca

Town of Fort Nelson, B.C., ordered to evacuate due to wildfire

The entire town of Fort Nelson, B.C., as well as the nearby Fort Nelson First Nation, has been ordered to evacuate due to an out-of-control wildfire.
bc.ctvnews.ca bc.ctvnews.ca
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Oof. The Alaska Highway is cut too. Fort Nelson is the biggest community between FSJ and Whitehorse. Not only is that going to be a tough evac for FSJ to absorb, but that's a lot of services and amenities cut for a large area. I remember overnighting in Ft Nelson once, there's not much else out there.
 
brihard said:
Oof. The Alaska Highway is cut too. Fort Nelson is the biggest community between FSJ and Whitehorse. Not only is that going to be a tough evac for FSJ to absorb, but that's a lot of services and amenities cut for a large area. I remember overnighting in Ft Nelson once, there's not much else out there.
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It's past winter. People can manage in the wilderness if they have to. You just remain still enough for a carpet of black flies and mosquitoes to settle, and you'll be warm enough to survive the night.
 
brihard said:
Oof. The Alaska Highway is cut too. Fort Nelson is the biggest community between FSJ and Whitehorse. Not only is that going to be a tough evac for FSJ to absorb, but that's a lot of services and amenities cut for a large area. I remember overnighting in Ft Nelson once, there's not much else out there.
Click to expand...

There's only one road in/out so I assume they're not taking any chances.

Fort McMurray is now being evacuated as well...

 
suffolkowner said:
are we going to hire more people for these situations i wonder?
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No. To save money, federal and provincial governments will rely on the cheaper option of NGOs and volunteers.


Reference:

Public safety volunteers. (2024). Government of British Columbia. Public safety volunteers

Thurton, D. (2024, May 11). Ottawa turns to civilian first responders as another dire wildfire season approaches. CBC news. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wildfires-climate-military-canada-1.7200878
 
kratz said:
No. To save money, federal and provincial governments will rely on the cheaper option of NGOs and volunteers.


Reference:

Public safety volunteers. (2024). Government of British Columbia. Public safety volunteers

Thurton, D. (2024, May 11). Ottawa turns to civilian first responders as another dire wildfire season approaches. CBC news. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wildfires-climate-military-canada-1.7200878
Click to expand...
We'll see how this goes.

 
In North Okanagan, we've had 6mm of precipitation since March 1 on the valley floor. Today it was 38 degrees.

Small fires have started up yesterday and today.
 
Unfortunately 200 men and women....is maybe a division's worth of firefighters on a major blaze if you have to put it out. That's 10 unit crews or 50 initial attack crews which also would represent a significant amount of any Canadian provinces resources and exceeds the size of many provinces total capacity.

Add a couple of divisions of active fire edge to fight and you start to see how fast Canadian resources can be depleted. You can try to do things with less people but then you're stretching out the risk of weather deciding to screw off again and case a fire to escape lines....and then you've got to reset and restart all the work done due to changes.

Still not sure what the exact solution is but the CAF is not the answer as they need to train for another mission(s) beyond domestic response. The positive is that the increased tempo of resource sharing has greatly increased capacity/capability from some areas who did not get much "large fire" experience and there is getting to be more awareness of the differences on how each area operates. Think of crashing the Regular Force and Reserve Forces all together and then trying to march off....1st the question of who leads, then whose music and band, while training is widely different and of different scales/relevancy. Takes some time to shake things into order (or a really annoyed RSM :) )
 
lenaitch said:
We'll see how this goes.

Click to expand...


"Sajjan, a former defence minister, added that the Canadian Armed Forces is "not the best resource to deal with a lot of emergencies," including wildfires."


CAF be like ;)

im right here schitts creek GIF by CBC
 
foresterab said:
Unfortunately 200 men and women....is maybe a division's worth of firefighters on a major blaze if you have to put it out. That's 10 unit crews or 50 initial attack crews which also would represent a significant amount of any Canadian provinces resources and exceeds the size of many provinces total capacity.

Add a couple of divisions of active fire edge to fight and you start to see how fast Canadian resources can be depleted. You can try to do things with less people but then you're stretching out the risk of weather deciding to screw off again and case a fire to escape lines....and then you've got to reset and restart all the work done due to changes.

Still not sure what the exact solution is but the CAF is not the answer as they need to train for another mission(s) beyond domestic response. The positive is that the increased tempo of resource sharing has greatly increased capacity/capability from some areas who did not get much "large fire" experience and there is getting to be more awareness of the differences on how each area operates. Think of crashing the Regular Force and Reserve Forces all together and then trying to march off....1st the question of who leads, then whose music and band, while training is widely different and of different scales/relevancy. Takes some time to shake things into order (or a really annoyed RSM :) )
Click to expand...

Also, they're VOLUNTEERS...

How reliable will a bunch of volunteers be, how well trained, etc etc. It's a massive money saving gamble that might result in more, not less, risk... to the volunteers themselves to start with
 
mariomike said:
St. John Ambulance Canada,

Medical First Response Services​

en.wikipedia.org

St. John Ambulance Canada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

​

Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong at a community evacuation perspective, evacuee response center, community recovery and may on an incident you can use alot of these folks. But most agencies are contracting out medical services for fires already and it hasn't been a major capacity issue the same way trained, experienced overhead staff and wildland firefighters are. I will agree outfits like the Red Cross and St. Johns do assist but that is usually at a larger scale (evacuation centers) than front line troops firefighting.

Not all fires or incidents are equal though and with some agencies tasked with all hazards this might be a much bigger need on say "chemical fire event" or earthquake response.
 
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