2025 Federal Election - 28 Apr 25

[FSTO]

Jeez, I don’t think I could handle having a PM who wants to be mayor of Toronto…

That’s been the LPC since Louis St Laurent!

 

[brihard]

So will PP get the same benefit of the doubt for the multitude of people (some with “questionable” backgrounds) he takes pictures with?
Goose and gander?

Of course he should. Politicians get mobbed for photos with randos all the time. It’s not reasonable to think they’ll generally know in the moment who they are or what connections they have. The whole ‘handshakes as a gotcha’ at public or major events is dumb and doesn’t tell us anything about candidates or where they stand.

 

[Lumber]

So will PP get the same benefit of the doubt for the multitude of people (some with “questionable” backgrounds) he takes pictures with?
Goose and gander?

I would, yes, absolutely. Nice whataboutism, by the way.

 

[FSTO]

I would, yes, absolutely. Nice whataboutism, by the way.

Hey, you opened the door.
And if a person shouts “Whataboutism” does that mean you win the debate?

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Whataboutism" is pulling an irrelevant tangent into the discussion. "You ate my leftover piece of cake." "Well, what about the time you left my bicycle in the rain?"

Establishing consistent applications of principles isn't whataboutism. Confirming X for thee and X for me isn't whataboutism. Referring to an earlier change of a "norm" to illustrate that it was already removed or altered when someone raises a hand in the present to complain isn't whataboutism.

 

[Lumber]

"Whataboutism" is pulling an irrelevant tangent into the discussion. "You ate my leftover piece of cake." "Well, what about the time you left my bicycle in the rain?"

Establishing consistent applications of principles isn't whataboutism. Confirming X for thee and X for me isn't whataboutism. Referring to an earlier change of a "norm" to illustrate that it was already removed or altered when someone raises a hand in the present to complain isn't whataboutism.

Absolutely, not.

Whataboutism: "the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue."

I this case, the issue was whether Carney lied. That's it. I provided an argument to say that though he did not. It was then in FSTO's purview to address my arguments. Instead, he brought up a different issue, which was not about whether or not Carney lied, or about the strengths of my arguments specifically, but instead about "how we treat/trust the politicians" and whether or not we are doing it equitably.

Ergo, whataboutism. His question by itself isn't a worthwhile question, it just doesn't have anything to do with the issue I was discussing.

 

[Navy_Pete]

So will PP get the same benefit of the doubt for the multitude of people (some with “questionable” backgrounds) he takes pictures with?
Goose and gander?

You mean like during the Freedom Convoy, when he was getting pictures taken with neo-nazis and extremists?

He did get a pass for not knowing who the specific people were, what people objected to was him supporting the Convoy generally, especially at that point when it was clear it was full of cracked out conspiracy lunatics, and folks wandering around with nazi and white supremecist flags and large markings. They may have been the minority, but there was enough of them it wasn't insignificant, with incidents like pissing on the war memorial, crapping on sidewalks, beating up security guards at the Good Shephard, slow rolling highways and major thoroughfares and generally being a loud obnoxious presence.

Balcony Ricky did a much better job of capturing the feeling of large swathes of Ottawa residents.

 

[FSTO]

Absolutely, not.

Whataboutism: "the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue."

I this case, the issue was whether Carney lied. That's it. I provided an argument to say that though he did not. It was then in FSTO's purview to address my arguments. Instead, he brought up a different issue, which was not about whether or not Carney lied, or about the strengths of my arguments specifically, but instead about "how we treat/trust the politicians" and whether or not we are doing it equitably.

Ergo, whataboutism. His question by itself isn't a worthwhile question, it just doesn't have anything to do with the issue I was discussing.

To be honest I only read the first couple of sentences in your post.

In the end who gives a fuck who met whom. My hope at the start of the election has returned to the abject disappointment at all the players. Nothing will change until the political “communication experts” are disposed off root and branch from our political process.

 

[Lumber]

To be honest I only read the first couple of sentences in your post.

In the end who gives a fuck who met whom. My hope at the start of the election has returned to the abject disappointment at all the players. Nothing will change until the political “communication experts” are disposed off root and branch from our political process.

Mea culpa. My last line was supposed to read "His question by itself IS a worthwhile question" (not "isn't").

 

[Fabius]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-oppo-csfn-1.7509217

Yet another example of how the LPC thinks. Deliberate disinformation campaign concocted by LPC staffers who obviously operate in an environment that seems to either tacitly or explicitly be okay with it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Absolutely, not.

Whataboutism: "the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue."

I this case, the issue was whether Carney lied. That's it. I provided an argument to say that though he did not. It was then in FSTO's purview to address my arguments. Instead, he brought up a different issue, which was not about whether or not Carney lied, or about the strengths of my arguments specifically, but instead about "how we treat/trust the politicians" and whether or not we are doing it equitably.

Ergo, whataboutism. His question by itself isn't a worthwhile question, it just doesn't have anything to do with the issue I was discussing.

I wasn't responding to your specific point. I made my comment to clarify the general use and misuse of "whataboutism", which gets a lot of mileage here as elsewhere, some of it germane (per your example) and some not. The most common misuse is claiming something breached a rule or custom and then crying "whataboutism" when someone points out the rule or custom was already breached. Usually this happens in the context of political discussions. People can't reasonably expect breaches to be ignored or tolerated when one faction gains political advantage and then criticized when another faction subsequently does a similar thing.

There was already a common term for irrelevant injections: "red herring". I suspect the use of "whataboutism" arose among people who wanted to have their cake and eat it.

 

[brihard]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-oppo-csfn-1.7509217

Yet another example of how the LPC thinks. Deliberate disinformation campaign concocted by LPC staffers who obviously operate in an environment that seems to either tacitly or explicitly be okay with it.

That is slimy as shit. That story deserves to keep some traction, and whoever came up with/approved that should have a very public fall from grace.

 

[Blackadder1916]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-oppo-csfn-1.7509217

Yet another example of how the LPC thinks. Deliberate disinformation campaign concocted by LPC staffers who obviously operate in an environment that seems to either tacitly or explicitly be okay with it.

On Friday night, in two Ottawa bars, campaign workers shared how the party was behind this move — how two Liberal Party staffers attended the conference intended for conservatives and placed these buttons in areas where attendees would find them.

One of those conversations was in the immediate earshot of this journalist. A Conservative source overheard the other conversation.

Obviously, Liberal campaign workers were not instructed about "the first rule of Fight Club".

 

[Brad Sallows]

That is slimy as shit. That story deserves to keep some traction, and whoever came up with/approved that should have a very public fall from grace.

It's not the Watergate break-in, but it's on the same trajectory.

 

[The Bread Guy]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-oppo-csfn-1.7509217

Yet another example of how the LPC thinks. Deliberate disinformation campaign concocted by LPC staffers who obviously operate in an environment that seems to either tacitly or explicitly be okay with it.

Jesus. H. Tap dancing. Christ. Mind you, the button makers haven't been listening to Kory in public statements or on podcasts lately, have they?

Also keep in mind, CBC's the bought-and-paid-for state media, right?

Meanwhile, for the record, Team Blue on veterans' stuff ...

Conservatives Announce Plan to Put Canada’s Veterans First - Conservative Party of Canada

Ottawa, ON – Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre announced his plan to give Veterans the support they have earned. The plan begins with ensuring Veterans’ benefits are in place before they leave the military and will: “Veterans shouldn’t have to fight their own government for the benefits they...

www.conservative.ca

... The plan begins with ensuring Veterans’ benefits are in place before they leave the military and will:

• Automatically approve disability applications if they are not processed within 16 weeks.
• Give Veterans full control over their medical records.
• Let military doctors assess injuries using one standardized system.
• Ensure PTSD service dogs are available to Veterans who need them, with a consistent national standard for support.
• Make available the Education and Training Benefit to Veterans immediately upon receiving their release date.

“Veterans shouldn’t have to fight their own government for the benefits they earned,” Pierre Poilievre said. “But under the Liberals, they face endless delays and denials—waiting months or even years for disability claims. That is wrong and I will change it.”

A new Conservative government will prioritize Veterans for jobs in the public service, give preference to veteran-owned businesses in federal contracts, double the hiring target at Veterans Affairs and fast-track the renewal of security clearances for those who already have them and need them for a new job. We will also add spouses of Veterans and Canadian Armed Forces Members who want to work for Canada into the Veterans Hiring Act.

For those making the transition back to civilian life in the private sector, we will deliver by:

• Providing Veterans the documentation they need to have their skills recognized by civilian employers upon release through a red-seal system.
• Ensuring Veterans get post-secondary course credits for skills and knowledge they gained while serving in the CAF, such as credit for courses on leadership if they already have a background in leadership positions.
• Reviewing and removing clawbacks of military pensions for Veterans who get jobs, ensuring their new income is on top of their pension, not in place of it.

A new Conservative government will also make sure that our military Veterans get the recognition they deserve for putting their lives on the line, and country before self. This includes recognizing Veteran Service Cards as valid government ID nationwide. We will also immediately complete the National Monument to Canada’s Mission in Afghanistan and officially recognize Persian Gulf War veterans and their wartime service ...

Also archived here if original link doesn't work.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Jesus. H. Tap dancing. Christ. Mind you, the button makers haven't been listening to Kory in public statements or on podcasts lately, have they?

Also keep in mind, CBC's the bought-and-paid-for state media, right?

Meanwhile, for the record, Team Blue on veterans' stuff ...

Conservatives Announce Plan to Put Canada’s Veterans First - Conservative Party of Canada

Ottawa, ON – Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre announced his plan to give Veterans the support they have earned. The plan begins with ensuring Veterans’ benefits are in place before they leave the military and will: “Veterans shouldn’t have to fight their own government for the benefits they...

www.conservative.ca

Also archived here if original link doesn't work.

This is the same party that is currently planning to change all the public service pensions from 'defined benefits' to 'defined contributions' and has yet to respond to any of the requests for clarification I've sent in via email, social media or in person whether that includes CAF members.

Their plan sounds pretty good, but if they cut the pension but give it to us sooner still worse off.

 

[PMedMoe]

In the Bay of Quinte area, it would seem someone is trying to divert people from looking up the Liberal candidate, Chris Malette.

"At issue is the purchase of dozens of online web domains involving Liberal candidate Chris Malette’s name, some of which are redirecting any online logins to the election website of CPC candidate Ryan Williams.

With help from the public, campaign officials are investigating and now believe that at least 25 domains were purchased by this same person or group, including ‘chrismalette.ca’, ‘votechrismalette.ca’, ‘chrismalettebq.ca’ and others."

Underhanded online antics marring Bay of Quinte federal race

 

[Remius]

In the Bay of Quinte area, it would seem someone is trying to divert people from looking up the Liberal candidate, Chris Malette.

"At issue is the purchase of dozens of online web domains involving Liberal candidate Chris Malette’s name, some of which are redirecting any online logins to the election website of CPC candidate Ryan Williams.

With help from the public, campaign officials are investigating and now believe that at least 25 domains were purchased by this same person or group, including ‘chrismalette.ca’, ‘votechrismalette.ca’, ‘chrismalettebq.ca’ and others."

Underhanded online antics marring Bay of Quinte federal race

Someone in PPs riding stole 300+ LPC lawn signs…

 

[The Bread Guy]

This is the same party that is currently planning to change all the public service pensions from 'defined benefits' to 'defined contributions' and has yet to respond to any of the requests for clarification I've sent in via email, social media or in person whether that includes CAF members.

To be fair, the Team Blue Policy Declaration (here's what the membership at the policy convention want) does say that ....

... but even the Blue coach has said he doesn't have to follow the book that came from the membership (news link also archived here).

A watch out for? Yup. A "currently planning to change"? We'll have to see - they have to win, and if they do, they have to make this a priority with everything else on their plate.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Someone in PPs riding stole 300+ LPC lawn signs…

Could it have been one of the 80 or so independent candidates in the riding (also see attached list from Elections Canada if link doesn't work)?