9mm, Too old?

[Kal]

Out of curiosity what were we using up until 1942? One of the Webley variants?

Can we keep this on topic please?  If you have a question open a new thread or ask a Mod to split this one off.....  ;D

 

[geo]

Kal,... refs the webley
The question was a pertinent and not really "off topic"
Relax a bit

 

[raymao]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_Military_Infantry_Weapons#Service_Pistols

Service Pistols
Colt Model 1878 Revolver - 1885-1902
Colt "New Service" Revolver - 1900-1928 (also used by the NWMP and RCMP from 1905-1954)
Colt Model 1911 Pistol - 1914-1945
Smith & Wesson 2nd Model "Hand Ejector" Revolver - 1915-1951
Smith & Wesson "Military & Police" Revolver - 1939-1964
Inglis "High Power" Pistol - 1944-present (Canadian re-engineering of the Browning Hi-Power)

I was trying to think of a signature... now I have it... "Googlefu" it's a wonderful thing.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

bbbb..... yes the 9mm BHP was designed and released at the end of WW2.
if you look at the .45cal colt 1911.... it's design is even older..... old does not equate with bad.

newer fancier pistols have tried to build on it's success - some have surpassed, some haven't.

1935 was the first run on the P35 (BHP MkI) if I remember correctly. Botht he BHP and the 1911 designed by the same guy, John Browning. The 1911 generally suffers a extractor problem every 2-3,000 rds and the link pins can wear out. Neither gun came with a firing pin safety, but I believe there were some pistols around that did. Almost every pistol excepting Glocks, most polymers and blowback pistols can trace their design back to John Browning's guns. Pretty impressive 

 

[1feral1]

Out of curiosity what were we using up until 1942? One of the Webley variants?

Seems we were using both the .38 Webley and the .38 S&W Victorys. (not .38 Spl, but .38 S&W AKA .380 Brit)

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Thanks Wes

 

[cfsupporter]

Hello to all - just joined today.  Great and informative site.  Not in the forces; however, I am a staunch supporter of the military and what they do to maintain our freedoms.

I found this thread most interesting as I am a hobbyist, target-shooter.  In semiautos I own and shoot 9mm CZ 85 (BHP clone, with better ergos), 10mm S&W 1006 (beautiful piece and very versatile round) and .45 ACP Para Ord 14/45 (old classic calibre).

The BHP is a fine pistol that has stood the test of time.  Like any auto, worn, dirty or poorly adjusted mags/mag lips will cause feeding problems.  With good clean mags, everything else  kept clean, good and proper combat training and lots of practise you will be amply armed.  Just like in big game hunting, shot placement counts for way more than bigger calibre.

One point I didn't see mentioned is grip pressure.  Firm, consistent hand grip pressure is critical to the proper functioning of a semiauto handgun.  Limp-wristed hand-holds can produce extraction and feeding problems.

On calibre pressure someone said the .40 S&W was higher pressure than the 9mm.  SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Makers Institute) lists the following maximum pressures (CUP - Copper Units of Pressure):

9mm - 35,000
9mm +P - 38,500

40 S&W - 35,000 (same as 9mm and .357 magnum)

10mm - 37, 500

45 ACP - 21,000
45 ACP +P - 23,000

Remember - good gun control = 10X!!!

Cheers and I think it is important for you to know I support what you do, whether it be peace keeping or in combat theatre. 

cfsupporter

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well It’s a damm good post for a first one. 

I love the Sig, just got a P226 All Stainless in 9mm a joy to shoot, and am confirming whether the frame will accept the .40cal/357Sig slide, I have heard both that it is the same frame and that it is not, will have to ask Sigarms.

I also love the Hi-Power and if I can’t get a Inglis made one (hopefully with the notch so I can make a stock for it) I will go for the FM Hi-Power, to bad we can’t get the detective model here, FM has the detective slide for sale separately for fitting to the their stock HP. Also comes with a firing pin safety.

I have a Norinco clone of the NZ-85b, I do like shooting it and call it “Son of Hi-power”

I also have the 1911A1 Commander in .45, fun to shoot, not quite as easy to field strip as the Sig or BHP, but easy to clean once apart. 1911 the “Granddaddy” of the BHP. I also laugh when people say the BHP is to big and clunky, it’s way smaller than most modern 9mm’s.

 

[NATO Boy]

Colin,

Keep an eye out for the Inglis Chinese Contract models; they tend to pop up at gun shops/shows more often than the actual shoulder stock/holsters that attach to them. There's even one for sale at the local shop near my place.

As for the shoulder stock/holster, they look very cool; I currently have one in a bag that's unfinished/un-blued/unassembled (compliments of my DCO  .) I can't wait to assemble it once it's got some blueing and linseed oil on it.

Cheers,

Mickey

 

[wookie11]

Keep an eye out for the Inglis Chinese Contract models; they tend to pop up at gun shops/shows more often than the actual shoulder stock/holsters that attach to them. There's even one for sale at the local shop near my place.

I've seen those, written in Chinese on the left side. It just showed up one day and gone the next.
We were making fun of the government for buying cheap chinese guns straight from China, but as far as I know, it worked fine.

 

[TCBF]

Most of the guys who owned one and spoke to me about it said that NORINCO generally gave very good value for your money, be it an AR-15 clone, M-14 clone, or pistol clone.

Tom

 

[NATO Boy]

Most of the guys who owned one and spoke to me about it said that NORINCO generally gave very good value for your money, be it an AR-15 clone, M-14 clone, or pistol clone.

Tom

+ 1

Most of the myths I heard about Norinco arms (especially the M-305, aka the M-14 clone) have banished after talking to friends who still use them without any problems (bad headspacing being a biggie for me.) I can't wait to pick up an 1897 Trench clone from Norinco sometime this summer.

 

[teddy49]

I've seen those, written in Chinese on the left side. It just showed up one day and gone the next.
We were making fun of the government for buying cheap chinese guns straight from China, but as far as I know, it worked fine.

Uhm...Just in case you're not kidding.  The Inglis Chinese Contract guns were made in Canada for export to China.  They were never exported because the filthy godless commies took over.  They were not made in China.

 

[NATO Boy]

Uhm...Just in case you're not kidding.  The Inglis Chinese Contract guns were made in Canada for export to China.  They were never exported because the filthy godless commies took over.  They were not made in China.

+ 1

Long Branch also produced Sten Guns in the same manner.

 

[mudgunner49]

+ 1

Long Branch also produced Sten Guns in the same manner.

I once owned an 8mm Bren wth Chinese markings.  Wish I still had it...


blake

 

[rregtc-etf]

9mm Browning Hi-Power or F.N. P35 (Fabrique Nationale Pistol 1935) has been around  since before WWII, it was made by FN (Belgium) and Inglis (Canada).  After the Germans invaded Belgium the P35 was favoured by Wermacht and SS troops because of its 13 round magazine capacity.  It is an excellent pistol, however it has some limitations compared to a more modern firearm (as would a car built in 1935). 

I have carried on duty the Inglis Hi-Power, the Glock 17 (9mm), Glock 22 (.40 cal) and compact Glock 19 (9mm) and have found the following:

Browning:  Single action only has a very fast trigger reset, fast shooting.
                Safety dictates that chamber is empty when holstered, requiring pistol to be cocked when removed from holster prior to coming on target
                Making safe more complex, prior to re-holstering
                Older models designed for 9mm Ball, does not feed JHP or SWC reliably unless gunsmith modifies feedramp
                Feels nice in hand, natural pointer, very accurate, blade sights
                Higher maintenance external cleaning / oiling to prevent rust in wet or damp conditions to all steel frame and slide
                Slim, light and comfortable in holster
                Pleasure to shoot

Glock        Double action & longer trigger pull is not a problem, but feels slower.
                No external safeties, can be carried round in chamber with full confidence
                No external hammer, can be re-holstered at any time with round in chamber
                Reliable feeding of ball, JHP, SWC, +P, +P+ ammo
                External metal parts coated for very low maintenance
                Higher capacity magazine than Browning
                A little less accurate at distace (possible because of JHP ammo)
                Not as comfortable to hold / aim as Browning HP
                9mm recoil feels crisper than .40 cal version
                Functional, reliable, solid pistol, best bang for the buck
                Heavy in holster because of very large magazine capacities.

The Glock seems to have more moving parts (internal springs) and because it is designed for modern heavy recoiling ammo, internal recoil springs and firing pin may wear faster and need replacement.

Both are excellent pistols, the Glock is just more modern.

 

[Big Red]

Safety dictates that chamber is empty when holstered, requiring pistol to be cocked when removed from holster prior to coming on target
           

Agreed on your points except this one.  The BHP is perfectly safe readied with safety on holstered.

 

[COBRA-6]

Agreed on your points except this one.  The BHP is perfectly safe readied with safety on holstered.

I just wish our BHP's had the nice big safety like you see on modern 1911's.

 

[KevinB]

I've run Inglis BHP's C&L's in Afghan - it works.

Practice -- and perfect practice makes perfect

I even rappelled of the Kings Palace with a C&L'd Inglis  ;D

 

[Strike]

Safety dictates that chamber is empty when holstered, requiring pistol to be cocked when removed from holster prior to coming on target

Right, I don't know much about pistols myself, but I know enough about my Browning.  Where exactly is this standard coming from?  News to me.