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A Canadian Rangers reset would help Armed Forces keep pace with a changing North

daftandbarmy

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Old Sweat said:
I kid you not. At the time, mid-60s, when the Germans winter trialed Leos and a number of wheeled vehicles in Shilo, they acknowledged the same.

Skijoring behind a Leo 1 is an interesting experience. Just be careful if they head downhill, and have a universally acknowledged command like 'Jump!' if it gets too hairy :)
 

FJAG

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Old Sweat said:
I kid you not. At the time, mid-60s, when the Germans winter trialed Leos and a number of wheeled vehicles in Shilo, they acknowledged the same.

This is why German trucks had very high wheelbases long before we did.

;D
 

FJAG

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tomahawk6 said:
Trick question why does the CF consider mortars as artillery ? ;)

We don't.

We merely went through a phase that we seem to be out of now. Maybe?

:facepalm:
 

MilEME09

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FJAG said:
We don't.

We merely went through a phase that we seem to be out of now. Maybe?

:facepalm:

Its a flimsy excuse because the C3s are falling apart
 

FJAG

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tomahawk6 said:
Are artillerymen assigned to mortar crews ? ;)

There was a period of time where we restricted manning the infantry mortar platoons with infantrymen and reserve artillery were training as mortarmen. Things are trending back to mortars being infantry.

Personally, as a former gunner, I have very strong conviction that mortars in the 81-120mm class should be purely an infantry weapon. There's a lengthy discussion about this in the C3 Howitzer Replacement thread https://army.ca/forums/threads/122373.0.html

:cheers:
 

tomahawk6

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I can see some value using artillerymen in the FDC and as forward observers.
 

Rocky Mountains

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The Canadian Rangers were never intended to be soldiers.  Two positive things about the Rangers is that they are there and we are not.  Pretending otherwise serves no-one.  Anyone who thinks the Arctic is the next South China Sea worries way too much.  If there's a serious problem we would borrow an Airborne Division or two from friends but the odds of that ever happening approaches nil.  For the last 153 years we have had no foreign threat whatsoever in the Arctic and there is no reason to believe that will change.  As if someone would travel 6,000 miles to a totally inhospitable climate and start mayhem.  Not only not likely, it's impossible.
 

Colin Parkinson

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The Chinese believe otherwise, they are paying good money to have a satellite track shipping and ice coverage in the Arctic regions and they have deemed themselves "Near Arctic nation". They have invested heavily in icebreakers and have already gone into our arctic waters. So I am not sure how much more they need to telegraph their intentions before we get off our lazy ass and actually do real concrete things about our arctic. To keep it in the coming century, we need a "Whole of government" approach, everything from military, social, cartography, infrastructure and environmental. I would keep the rangers as they are, but expanding their resources and recruiting where it makes sense. I would bolster them by creating army and naval reserve units in the North that have the mission to defend our Arctic sovereignty and infrastructure. 
 

YZT580

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Do we really need the navy, unless it is to man (person) armed ice breakers.  Definitely need army units but properly equipped air force transport units would be a better use of limited funds.  And why are they reserve units?  It would require the entire population of Yellowknife to provide the manpower to equip even a battalion.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Naval Reserve, yes. Small units built around two patrol boats, perhaps based on the CB90, these can be hauled out and maintained in a hanger in the winter, I would base one unit in the Western Arctic and one in the Eastern Arctic. They could share resources with the CCG auxiliary. for army, I doubt you could get more than a Platoon sized unit. These would be specialised troops meant to back up the Rangers and support southern units operating in the North. Remember I said "Whole of government", these units are as much about improving the social conditions as they are about sovereignty. Proper ports, better runways and airport facilities, more roads, railways, greenhouses, energy self-sufficiency, among other things.   
 

FJAG

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tomahawk6 said:
I can see some value using artillerymen in the FDC and as forward observers.

Re the FDC, not necessary. I've dealt with several infantry mortar platoons in the past and they are good at what they do. Re forward observers, in our system the artillery provides forward observation officer (FOOs) and the infantry mortar fire controllers (MFCs). In my day that gave an average infantry battalion three FOO parties (who are also JTAC trained) and two MFC parties to spread across their front. At the battalion the mortar platoon commander and the artillery battery's direct support battery commander are collocated in the Fire Support Coordination Cell. Long story short this provides quick access to and coordination of all indirect fires support to the battalion. (It's a bit different from the US Fire Support Teams)

We tend to prefer our FOO concept to your FST concept in that in the Canadian artillery, lieutenants start in the various FDC, recce etc jobs at the gun line and after experience gained there and after promotion to captain are made FOOs meaning that they are more experienced with the overall capabilities of fires support than the new lieutenants that fill the FSO positions in US battalions.

And now ... back to the Rangers.

:cheers:
 

YZT580

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Activate even a small group full time in the north. We keep bases open in the south for no other reason than political expediency surely to goodness opening and staffing a base on our only frontier should be a no-brainer. The territories are a part of Canada and having uniformed presence walking the streets should be a common occurrence and not the result of a calamity of some nature.  Certainly they should activate reserve groups as suggested but a full time troop of a legitimate size should also be present. 
 

Colin Parkinson

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Make a year long Arctic posting a requirement for promotion to general and you get troops up there and nice base.
 

MilEME09

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Colin P said:
Make a year long Arctic posting a requirement for promotion to general and you get troops up there and nice base.

Doesn't JTF-N have a permanent presence in White Horse and yellow knife? Perhaps expanding white horse and have a single battle regularly rotate in and out of there.
 

daftandbarmy

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MilEME09 said:
Doesn't JTF-N have a permanent presence in White Horse and yellow knife? Perhaps expanding white horse and have a single battle regularly rotate in and out of there.

One way other countries maintain a local presence in contested, remote areas (without building expensive and permanent barracks etc) is to run regular exercises, live fire and otherwise, based in these contested locations.

Some kind of field firing complex based in Yellowknife, Resolute Bay, Iqaluit, or something like that, would help ensure a continuous CAF presence in the area. We could then rotate Battle Groups through there on a regular basis, year round.

Who knows, we might even increase our ability to shoot at bad guys in Arctic conditions, as required :)
 

Blackadder1916

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Colin P said:
Make a year long Arctic posting a requirement for promotion to general and you get troops up there and nice base.

All that would do is increase the number of bgen led "HQs" with an appropriately ranked staff whose sole function is to while away a year up north doing "liaison" or "planning".  What would they be planning?  How to get the f*** back down south.
 

FJAG

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daftandbarmy said:
One way other countries maintain a local presence in contested, remote areas (without building expensive and permanent barracks etc) is to run regular exercises, live fire and otherwise, based in these contested locations.

Some kind of field firing complex based in Yellowknife, Resolute Bay, Iqaluit, or something like that, would help ensure a continuous CAF presence in the area. We could then rotate Battle Groups through there on a regular basis, year round.

Who knows, we might even increase our ability to shoot at bad guys in Arctic conditions, as required :)

Yes to that and then there's this:

The Sirius Dog Sled Patrol (Danish: Slædepatruljen Sirius), known informally as Siriuspatruljen (the Sirius Patrol) and formerly known as North-East Greenland Sledge Patrol and Resolute Dog Sled Patrol,[1] is an elite Danish naval unit. It conducts long-range reconnaissance patrolling, and enforces Danish sovereignty in the Arctic wilderness of northern and eastern Greenland, an area that includes the Northeast Greenland National Park, which is the largest national park in the world.[2] Patrolling is usually done in pairs and using dog sleds with about a dozen dogs, sometimes for four months and often without additional human contact.

See article here.

:cold:
 

infant

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What’s the HAM radio network like up north? I recall chatting with various folks from around the world on our Clansman 320 HF set, in our Coy CP, in Arctic Norway many years ago.

HAM operators might be able to fill in some gaps in the surveillance web.
I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to throw out that the CAF Auxillary Radio Network exists and I think is basically this (Ham operators supporting gaps in milcoms using their HF rigs)
 
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