A Deeply Fractured US

[Brad Sallows]

I hate ICE et al wearing masks well performing public duties. If your not breaking the law why feel the need to hide your face? Just another way they are removing accountability from the government.

Because doxxing and harassment and violence against people identified on social media, sometimes with a side of inflammatory rhetoric, is indisputable, and because the level of anger against immigration enforcement is well above customary limits for anti-police sentiment. The people making the identifications can claim that they are just recording and reporting (as they have the right to do) and that anyone who acts on that information is responsible for the results (also correct). People separately publishing opinions or making speeches that people should "resist" can likewise claim innocence. ("I didn't record anything or suggest people interfere, I just suggested people ought to resist. Oh, I suppose I did refer to ICE as illegitimate jack-booted fascist thugs, but that is protected expression; I didn't advocate that anyone engage in violence.")

And then there are the flakes who put identification and rhetoric together and act on it.

The agents should not be masked. But I would propose that before that happens, people keep their recordings private or at least not openly indulge in efforts to identify people in video until there is some need for legitimate legal review, and that opinion leaders (and especially politicians) eschew all inflammatory rhetoric and instead urge co-operation with lawful authority.

 

[OldSolduer]

Wrongful arrests aren't new, as are deporting citizens by mistake.

"Born In East LA " ring a bell?

 

[Quirky]

Cell phone video from the actual ICE officer who shot Good.

I hope the poor dog in the back seat was ok. I'm surprised this idiot didn't bring her kids along too.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I hate ICE et al wearing masks well performing public duties. If your not breaking the law why feel the need to hide your face? Just another way they are removing accountability from the government.

Because there are a large percentage of the left that will identify and doxx anyone they can. It puts the LEO families and themselves at great risk. Especially the likes of MS13 and TdA. Those two groups have already put bounties out for some of those already identified. And these gangs are not adverse to blowing up a whole house with the family in it or gunning down the family in a driveway. My 2 cents.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Because there are a large percentage of the left that will identify and doxx anyone they can. It puts the LEO families and themselves at great risk. Especially the likes of MS13 and TdA. Those two groups have already put bounties out for some of those already identified. And these gangs are not adverse to blowing up a whole house with the family in it or gunning down the family in a driveway. My 2 cents.

MS13 has caused some trouble for our Correctional identification officers....

 

[HavokFour]

Another result of allowing racial profiling.

Five Native Americans detained by ICE during ongoing raids in Minneapolis - ICT

Native American community members report increased ICE presence, fears of racial profiling

ictnews.org

And on the topic of the FBI not working with locals.

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q8m1bf/trump_claims_fbi_should_not_collaborate_with

 

[Altair]

https://www.npr.org/2026/01/08/nx-s1-5671740/ice-minneapolis-grok-ai-renee-nicole-good

In the hours after the fatal shooting of Renee Good, 37, in Minneapolis, an image of the ICE agent who took the shots began to circulate.

While the agent wore a mask in eyewitness videos taken of the event, he appeared to be unmasked in many of the social media posts. That image appeared to have been generated by xAI's generative AI chatbot, Grok, in response to users on X asking the bot to "unmask" the agent.

NPR is publishing both images to show how AI is being used to manipulate real evidence of news events, but using AI to try to "unmask" anyone is ill-advised, according to experts.

"AI-powered enhancement has a tendency to hallucinate facial details leading to an enhanced image that may be visually clear, but that may also be devoid of reality with respect to biometric identification," Hany Farid, a professor at the University of California, Berkeley who specializes in the analysis of digital images, wrote to NPR in an email.

Regardless, the AI-generated image began to circulate late Wednesday, along with a name — Steve Grove. The origin of that name was not immediately clear, but by Thursday morning, it was leading to an outpouring of anger toward at least two Steve Groves who are in no way linked to the shooting.

Between this and undressing underage girls, when is grok and those who run it (Elon Musk) going to be charged with crimes?

 

[HavokFour]

Another result of allowing racial profiling.

Five Native Americans detained by ICE during ongoing raids in Minneapolis - ICT

Native American community members report increased ICE presence, fears of racial profiling

ictnews.org

Oh boy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q8oi66/video_posted_by_a_local_showing_citizens_being

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Because there are a large percentage of the left that will identify and doxx anyone they can. It puts the LEO families and themselves at great risk. Especially the likes of MS13 and TdA. Those two groups have already put bounties out for some of those already identified. And these gangs are not adverse to blowing up a whole house with the family in it or gunning down the family in a driveway. My 2 cents.

But ordinary police officers doing their normal duties are not masked and are at a lot more of risk then ICE officers who move from city to city.

And these gangs are not adverse to blowing up a whole house with the family in it or gunning down the family in a driveway. My 2 cents.

Examples please!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ordinary police aren't deporting people or sending them to prison in El Salvador.

Examples please!
None specific. It's pretty common knowledge the viciousness and determination these cartel gangs use in reprisals. ICE and DHS have already been victims of contracts.

Cartels issuing bounties up to $50,000 for hits on ICE, CBP agents: DHS

Drug cartels have "disseminated a structured bounty program to incentivize violence against federal personnel," according to a press release from DHS.

abcnews.go.com

"The federal agency alleges cartels are offering $2,000 for intelligence gathering and doxing of agents, $5,000–$10,000 for kidnapping or non-lethal assaults on standard ICE/CBP officers and up to $50,000 for the assassination of high-ranking officials.

Gangs like the Latin Kings have also deployed "spotters" armed with firearms and radio communications to provide the real-time movements of CBP and ICE agents, according to DHS."

Bounties Originating From Mexico Offered to Shoot ICE and CBP Officers in Chicago | Homeland Security

DHS obtained credible intelligence indicating that Mexican criminals, in coordination with domestic extremist groups have placed targeted bounties on ICE and CBP personnel.

www.dhs.gov

"These criminal networks have issued explicit instructions to U.S.-based sympathetics, including street gangs in Chicago, to monitor, harass, and assassinate federal agents. Specific details from ongoing investigations include:

Spotter Networks: In neighborhoods like Chicago's Pilsen and Little Village, gang members affiliated with groups such as the Latin Kings have deployed "spotters" on rooftops equipped with firearms and radio communications. These individuals track ICE and CBP movements in real-time, relaying coordinates. This surveillance has enabled ambushes and disruptions during routine enforcement actions, including recent raids under Operation Midway Blitz.
Tiered Bounty System: Cartels have disseminated a structured bounty program to incentivize violence against federal personnel, with payouts escalating based on rank and action taken:
$2,000 for gathering intelligence or doxxing agents (including photos and family details).
$5,000–$10,000 for kidnapping or non-lethal assaults on standard ICE/CBP officers.
Up to $50,000 for the assassination of high-ranking officials."

Now, I might be wrong, but I've never heard of beat cops being exposed to this level of threat. Given an agent's identity is given a specific bounty, I have zero problem with them being masked. Especially when it is not against the law.

Is it Legal for Law Enforcement to Hide their Identity in the U.S.?

Guide to Rules About Police and Law Enforcement Wearing Masks & Using Unmarked Vehicles in the United States Federal and local police, including ICE and DHS, have increasingly worn masks and driven unmarked vehicles during immigration raids and tactical operations. Agencies justify this based on...

lawsoup.org

"Can officers wear masks and hide their face?

There is currently no federal law that requires law enforcement to wear uniforms or show their faces during arrests."

 

[Furniture]

But ordinary police officers doing their normal duties are not masked and are at a lot more of risk then ICE officers who move from city to city.

This is a disingenuous argument...

ICE officers face a unique problem created in equal parts by the Trump Admin, and Dems who are looking to create a "relatable" enemy.

 

[Remius]

This is a disingenuous argument...

ICE officers face a unique problem created in equal parts by the Trump Admin, and Dems who are looking to create a "relatable" enemy.

One problem is only giving them 6 weeks training…

 

[FSTO]

One problem is only giving them 6 weeks training…

And turning them into aggressive thugs who seem to have only one gear when interacting with the public.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Ordinary police aren't deporting people or sending them to prison in El Salvador.

True, but they are dealing with criminals on a daily basis. On the other hand, the majority of people being detained by DHS/ICE agents are not criminals. Depending on the reports about a third of people of people arrested by ICE don't even have a criminal record! And of the other two-thirds, only about 5% have a violent criminal record.

In reality, no ICE agent has every been killed by an immigrant and the last ICE agent killed by criminals was on February 15, 2011, when Special Agent Jaime Jorge Zapata and Special Agent Victor Avila were driving between Monterrey and Mexico City when gunmen stopped their car and opened fire on both agents. Zapata was fatally shot; Avila was seriously wounded in the attack but recovered from his injuries.

5% of People Detained By ICE Have Violent Convictions

About a third of people arrested by ICE had no criminal record, new data shows

Examples please!
None specific. It's pretty common knowledge the viciousness and determination these cartel gangs use in reprisals. ICE and DHS have already been victims of contracts.

Cartels issuing bounties up to $50,000 for hits on ICE, CBP agents: DHS

Drug cartels have "disseminated a structured bounty program to incentivize violence against federal personnel," according to a press release from DHS.

abcnews.go.com

"The federal agency alleges cartels are offering $2,000 for intelligence gathering and doxing of agents, $5,000–$10,000 for kidnapping or non-lethal assaults on standard ICE/CBP officers and up to $50,000 for the assassination of high-ranking officials.

Gangs like the Latin Kings have also deployed "spotters" armed with firearms and radio communications to provide the real-time movements of CBP and ICE agents, according to DHS."

Bounties Originating From Mexico Offered to Shoot ICE and CBP Officers in Chicago | Homeland Security

DHS obtained credible intelligence indicating that Mexican criminals, in coordination with domestic extremist groups have placed targeted bounties on ICE and CBP personnel.

www.dhs.gov

"These criminal networks have issued explicit instructions to U.S.-based sympathetics, including street gangs in Chicago, to monitor, harass, and assassinate federal agents. Specific details from ongoing investigations include:

Spotter Networks: In neighborhoods like Chicago's Pilsen and Little Village, gang members affiliated with groups such as the Latin Kings have deployed "spotters" on rooftops equipped with firearms and radio communications. These individuals track ICE and CBP movements in real-time, relaying coordinates. This surveillance has enabled ambushes and disruptions during routine enforcement actions, including recent raids under Operation Midway Blitz.
Tiered Bounty System: Cartels have disseminated a structured bounty program to incentivize violence against federal personnel, with payouts escalating based on rank and action taken:
$2,000 for gathering intelligence or doxxing agents (including photos and family details).
$5,000–$10,000 for kidnapping or non-lethal assaults on standard ICE/CBP officers.
Up to $50,000 for the assassination of high-ranking officials."

Now, I might be wrong, but I've never heard of beat cops being exposed to this level of threat. Given an agent's identity is given a specific bounty, I have zero problem with them being masked. Especially when it is not against the law.

The allegation that cartels are placing bounties comes from DHS and I take anything coming out of DHS/ Kristi Noem with a grain of salt. There is no solid evidence that cartels have put bounties on ICE/DHS agents. Below is a Guardian article that interviews a former Cartel member and former DEA agents and they all say its unlikely that Cartels would target law enforcement officers because the resulting backlash.

Local street gangs are another matter. In fact, last October, a member of the Latin Kings was arrested on allegations of placing a bounty on a senior DHS official.

Sheinbaum denies allegation of Cartel Bounties

Latin Kings gang member arrested

Is it Legal for Law Enforcement to Hide their Identity in the U.S.?

Guide to Rules About Police and Law Enforcement Wearing Masks & Using Unmarked Vehicles in the United States Federal and local police, including ICE and DHS, have increasingly worn masks and driven unmarked vehicles during immigration raids and tactical operations. Agencies justify this based on...

lawsoup.org

"Can officers wear masks and hide their face?

There is currently no federal law that requires law enforcement to wear uniforms or show their faces during arrests."

True, while there is no Federal law, some states like California have enacted laws preventing LEO from covering there faces. However, there is starting to be pushback for the reasons below (AI generated):

Why It's Controversial:

• Erosion of Trust: Masked officers create an "us vs. them" feeling, harming community relations, according to critics.
• Accountability: It becomes difficult to identify officers for public oversight and to hold them accountable for misconduct.
• Public Fear: Unidentified officers using force can be frightening and intimidating, notes The Guardian.

Another cause for concern is that criminals may impersonate DHS/ICE agents to rob/kidnap victims.

 

[Halifax Tar]

True, but they are dealing with criminals on a daily basis. On the other hand, the majority of people being detained by DHS/ICE agents are not criminals. Depending on the reports about a third of people of people arrested by ICE don't even have a criminal record! And of the other two-thirds, only about 5% have a violent criminal record.

In reality, no ICE agent has every been killed by an immigrant and the last ICE agent killed by criminals was on February 15, 2011, when Special Agent Jaime Jorge Zapata and Special Agent Victor Avila were driving between Monterrey and Mexico City when gunmen stopped their car and opened fire on both agents. Zapata was fatally shot; Avila was seriously wounded in the attack but recovered from his injuries.

5% of People Detained By ICE Have Violent Convictions

About a third of people arrested by ICE had no criminal record, new data shows


The allegation that cartels are placing bounties comes from DHS and I take anything coming out of DHS/ Kristi Noem with a grain of salt. There is no solid evidence that cartels have put bounties on ICE/DHS agents. Below is a Guardian article that interviews a former Cartel member and former DEA agents and they all say its unlikely that Cartels would target law enforcement officers because the resulting backlash.

Local street gangs are another matter. In fact, last October, a member of the Latin Kings was arrested on allegations of placing a bounty on a senior DHS official.

Sheinbaum denies allegation of Cartel Bounties

Latin Kings gang member arrested


True, while there is no Federal law, some states like California have enacted laws preventing LEO from covering there faces. However, there is starting to be pushback for the reasons below (AI generated):

Why It's Controversial:

• Erosion of Trust: Masked officers create an "us vs. them" feeling, harming community relations, according to critics.
• Accountability: It becomes difficult to identify officers for public oversight and to hold them accountable for misconduct.
• Public Fear: Unidentified officers using force can be frightening and intimidating, notes The Guardian.

Another cause for concern is that criminals may impersonate DHS/ICE agents to rob/kidnap victims.

Does your post mean 2/3s or people taken by ice have a criminal record, violent or not ?

If the are illegal aliens would they all technically be criminals?

Just speaking for Canada I have no issue with the deportation of people who are wrongly here, and I doubly have no issue if they have committed other crimes, violent or not.

 

[lenaitch]

So nothing better to do in the middle of the day, harass law enforcement and follow them around.

'Barefoot and pregnant' used to be standard. Oh wait . . . she's gay, which social media is all over. Fruits of living in sin.

"Make sure when your shift is over you go home alive." It isn't necessary to agree with the sentiment or the way it is being obeyed to understand that agents are going to err on their own side.

Which is a fine mantra, but it also starts with not treating every human interaction during your shift like an army of occupation. People have rights, whether you (an ICE agent) like it or not.

What I find interesting, particularly in a land of 'stand your ground' that, when a bunch of unidentifiable dudes pointing weapons and yelling 'get out of your car' under one set of circumstances are celebrated for resisting but under others are expected to acquiesce.

I honestly don't know the authority of US federal agents to do traffic stops, their powers of arrest and detention, etc. In most if not all US jurisdictions, regular law enforcement need probably cause for vehicle stops (similar police authority up here is broader). I suspect they cannot simply do round-ups and sift out who they really want after the fact.

They (he) might try to argue his life was endanger, and he might or might not be successful. It can't be ignored that the whole set of circumstances might have been predicated by an illegal act, and I suspect it wasn't on the part of the victim.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Does your post mean 2/3s or people taken by ice have a criminal record, violent or not ?

If the are illegal aliens would they all technically be criminals?

Just speaking for Canada I have no issue with the deportation of people who are wrongly here, and I doubly have no issue if they have committed other crimes, violent or not.

From what I gleaned is that 1/3 have no criminal record; 2/3 have a minor criminal records (e.g. traffic violations), and of that 2/3, only 5% have violent criminal records. And yes, technically being in a country illegally would make you a criminal.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

True, but they are dealing with criminals on a daily basis. On the other hand, the majority of people being detained by DHS/ICE agents are not criminals. Depending on the reports about a third of people of people arrested by ICE don't even have a criminal record! And of the other two-thirds, only about 5% have a violent criminal record.

In reality, no ICE agent has every been killed by an immigrant and the last ICE agent killed by criminals was on February 15, 2011, when Special Agent Jaime Jorge Zapata and Special Agent Victor Avila were driving between Monterrey and Mexico City when gunmen stopped their car and opened fire on both agents. Zapata was fatally shot; Avila was seriously wounded in the attack but recovered from his injuries.

5% of People Detained By ICE Have Violent Convictions

About a third of people arrested by ICE had no criminal record, new data shows


The allegation that cartels are placing bounties comes from DHS and I take anything coming out of DHS/ Kristi Noem with a grain of salt. There is no solid evidence that cartels have put bounties on ICE/DHS agents. Below is a Guardian article that interviews a former Cartel member and former DEA agents and they all say its unlikely that Cartels would target law enforcement officers because the resulting backlash.

Local street gangs are another matter. In fact, last October, a member of the Latin Kings was arrested on allegations of placing a bounty on a senior DHS official.

Sheinbaum denies allegation of Cartel Bounties

Latin Kings gang member arrested


True, while there is no Federal law, some states like California have enacted laws preventing LEO from covering there faces. However, there is starting to be pushback for the reasons below (AI generated):

Why It's Controversial:

• Erosion of Trust: Masked officers create an "us vs. them" feeling, harming community relations, according to critics.
• Accountability: It becomes difficult to identify officers for public oversight and to hold them accountable for misconduct.
• Public Fear: Unidentified officers using force can be frightening and intimidating, notes The Guardian.

Another cause for concern is that criminals may impersonate DHS/ICE agents to rob/kidnap victims.

You reject an official government document, out of hand, but accept the word of a former cartel member as proof? It sounds like your opposition is based, not on proof, but on your distaste for the current administration. Your assertion that there is no such thing as a bounty list, based on dubious sources, is not fact, it's opinion.

I posted some stats awhile back, generated by AI and was roundly pillored for it. It appears AI is not a respected source for use here.

Federal law trumps state law. Newsom, et al, can pass all the laws they want. Feds can effectively ignore them.

Bottom line, at the moment, no law exists stopping LEO from wearing face coverings. So, they can continue to wear them. People might not like it, can pick their favorite windmill to tilt at, and raise unholy hell. Doesn’t make a lick of difference.

And before I get too involved, that's where I stand. Take it for what it's worth. I'm out.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Does your post mean 2/3s or people taken by ice have a criminal record, violent or not ?

If the are illegal aliens would they all technically be criminals?

Just speaking for Canada I have no issue with the deportation of people who are wrongly here, and I doubly have no issue if they have committed other crimes, violent or not.

Keep in mind the US for many decades encouraged illegal immigration and workers because it was a cheap source of labour.

Many of these people were literally paying taxes for a system they couldn’t be part of, working jobs most Americans wanted nothing to do with for less money than what is legal to pay a American.

Trump has decided to end that system in the most unfair and violent manner possible. Realistically they should have offered citizenship to those who had been there a while with no criminal record and contributed well slowly working out others.

Instead we have armed masked thugs arresting American citizens and disappearing them to other states with no due process. If you need to always wear a mask to do your job because of the risk of being identified maybe your not working a particularly honourable job and should reconsider your life decisions.

 

[suffolkowner]

'Barefoot and pregnant' used to be standard. Oh wait . . . she's gay, which social media is all over. Fruits of living in sin.


Which is a fine mantra, but it also starts with not treating every human interaction during your shift like an army of occupation. People have rights, whether you (an ICE agent) like it or not.

What I find interesting, particularly in a land of 'stand your ground' that, when a bunch of unidentifiable dudes pointing weapons and yelling 'get out of your car' under one set of circumstances are celebrated for resisting but under others are expected to acquiesce.

I honestly don't know the authority of US federal agents to do traffic stops, their powers of arrest and detention, etc. In most if not all US jurisdictions, regular law enforcement need probably cause for vehicle stops (similar police authority up here is broader). I suspect they cannot simply do round-ups and sift out who they really want after the fact.

They (he) might try to argue his life was endanger, and he might or might not be successful. It can't be ignored that the whole set of circumstances might have been predicated by an illegal act, and I suspect it wasn't on the part of the victim.

seen this. Accurate?

Yes, ICE Is Law Enforcement—But Their Authority Has Limits You Need To Know

ICE is federal law enforcement with arrest authority—but ICE agents can't enter your home without a judge's warrant. Learn what ICE can and cannot do.

allaboutlawyer.com

also this



and this



again accurate?