A Deeply Fractured US

[Brad Sallows]

It’s the right of a person in a free society oblong

A remarkably wonderful description of contemporary free society in the US. Absolutely to be retained for posterity.

 

[brihard]

A person can always be a victim of her own misjudgement. ICE can be the goon squad so many people assert it is, but it is still an enforcement agency enforcing laws. Very few have tried to argue that it's purpose is inherently illegitimate. The controversy is how they execute. Any interference with law enforcement trying to carry out their legitimate duties, even if ham-fistedly and in bad faith, has potential to go south. And in this particular context (immigration enforcement), people are being egged on to interfere and resist (exhortation by politicians and public figures, posts on social media, etc).

It is common knowledge that three people in an ICE vehicle were shot. Vehicles have become a tool of choice for civil disobedience (to obstruct agents, at minimum), with an increase in vehicles used as weapons (some allegedly, if you prefer, but some undoubtedly intentionally). Presumably all the agents know these things, and their minds are situated accordingly.

"Make sure when your shift is over you go home alive." It isn't necessary to agree with the sentiment or the way it is being obeyed to understand that agents are going to err on their own side.

What do you contend is the relevance of this to what happened in Minneapolis? You’re saying a lot without actually saying a lot.

 

[brihard]

A remarkably wonderful description of contemporary free society in the US. Absolutely to be retained for posterity.

Autocorrect that I caught to late to edit… Never understood that feature of this site. Allow me to correct for posterity;

“It’s the right of a person in a free society oblong as police are not obstructed from doing their jobs.”

I trust you don’t disagree?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Observing is a personal choice.

Yes, and a legitimate one.

 

[Brad Sallows]

What do you contend is the relevance of this to what happened in Minneapolis? You’re saying a lot without actually saying a lot.

State of mind. They know perhaps a fifth of the country (if not more) hates what they're doing, and they know people are willing to shoot them or run them down.

Don't interfere with law enforcement - not for ICE raids, not for drug raids, not for riot control, not for arrests, not for traffic stops - unless prepared to accept the consequences of a black swan FAFO outcome. Even if events prove you had every right and they had none, it's a gamble. It is particularly a gamble if the officers have a siege mentality, irrespective of whether they were ever suitable candidates. Keep the civil disobedience on the courthouse lawn, or at least within bounds the officers don't find potentially threatening. Almost all officers will have pretty good instincts. A few won't. Multiple the interactions by hundreds or thousands, and some of the few will be in the mix.

 

[Good2Golf]

Cell phone video from the actual ICE officer who shot Good.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2009686799271002112

 

[brihard]

Cell phone video from the actual ICE officer who shot Good.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2009686799271002112

See my comments on the other thread.


Edit by staff: Link added to brihard’s referenced comments for clarity.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I hate ICE et al wearing masks well performing public duties. If your not breaking the law why feel the need to hide your face? Just another way they are removing accountability from the government.

 

[QV]

I hate ICE et al wearing masks well performing public duties. If your not breaking the law why feel the need to hide your face? Just another way they are removing accountability from the government.

Probably because a not insignificant number of politicians are calling out the legitimacy and they fear they or family will be doxed for carrying out their duty.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I hate ICE et al wearing masks well performing public duties. If your not breaking the law why feel the need to hide your face? Just another way they are removing accountability from the government.

Because doxxing and harassment and violence against people identified on social media, sometimes with a side of inflammatory rhetoric, is indisputable, and because the level of anger against immigration enforcement is well above customary limits for anti-police sentiment. The people making the identifications can claim that they are just recording and reporting (as they have the right to do) and that anyone who acts on that information is responsible for the results (also correct). People separately publishing opinions or making speeches that people should "resist" can likewise claim innocence. ("I didn't record anything or suggest people interfere, I just suggested people ought to resist. Oh, I suppose I did refer to ICE as illegitimate jack-booted fascist thugs, but that is protected expression; I didn't advocate that anyone engage in violence.")

And then there are the flakes who put identification and rhetoric together and act on it.

The agents should not be masked. But I would propose that before that happens, people keep their recordings private or at least not openly indulge in efforts to identify people in video until there is some need for legitimate legal review, and that opinion leaders (and especially politicians) eschew all inflammatory rhetoric and instead urge co-operation with lawful authority.

 

[OldSolduer]

Wrongful arrests aren't new, as are deporting citizens by mistake.

"Born In East LA " ring a bell?

 

[Quirky]

Cell phone video from the actual ICE officer who shot Good.

I hope the poor dog in the back seat was ok. I'm surprised this idiot didn't bring her kids along too.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I hate ICE et al wearing masks well performing public duties. If your not breaking the law why feel the need to hide your face? Just another way they are removing accountability from the government.

Because there are a large percentage of the left that will identify and doxx anyone they can. It puts the LEO families and themselves at great risk. Especially the likes of MS13 and TdA. Those two groups have already put bounties out for some of those already identified. And these gangs are not adverse to blowing up a whole house with the family in it or gunning down the family in a driveway. My 2 cents.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Because there are a large percentage of the left that will identify and doxx anyone they can. It puts the LEO families and themselves at great risk. Especially the likes of MS13 and TdA. Those two groups have already put bounties out for some of those already identified. And these gangs are not adverse to blowing up a whole house with the family in it or gunning down the family in a driveway. My 2 cents.

MS13 has caused some trouble for our Correctional identification officers....

 

[HavokFour]

Another result of allowing racial profiling.

Five Native Americans detained by ICE during ongoing raids in Minneapolis - ICT

Native American community members report increased ICE presence, fears of racial profiling

ictnews.org

And on the topic of the FBI not working with locals.

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q8m1bf/trump_claims_fbi_should_not_collaborate_with

 

[Altair]

https://www.npr.org/2026/01/08/nx-s1-5671740/ice-minneapolis-grok-ai-renee-nicole-good

In the hours after the fatal shooting of Renee Good, 37, in Minneapolis, an image of the ICE agent who took the shots began to circulate.

While the agent wore a mask in eyewitness videos taken of the event, he appeared to be unmasked in many of the social media posts. That image appeared to have been generated by xAI's generative AI chatbot, Grok, in response to users on X asking the bot to "unmask" the agent.

NPR is publishing both images to show how AI is being used to manipulate real evidence of news events, but using AI to try to "unmask" anyone is ill-advised, according to experts.

"AI-powered enhancement has a tendency to hallucinate facial details leading to an enhanced image that may be visually clear, but that may also be devoid of reality with respect to biometric identification," Hany Farid, a professor at the University of California, Berkeley who specializes in the analysis of digital images, wrote to NPR in an email.

Regardless, the AI-generated image began to circulate late Wednesday, along with a name — Steve Grove. The origin of that name was not immediately clear, but by Thursday morning, it was leading to an outpouring of anger toward at least two Steve Groves who are in no way linked to the shooting.

Between this and undressing underage girls, when is grok and those who run it (Elon Musk) going to be charged with crimes?

 

[HavokFour]

Another result of allowing racial profiling.

Five Native Americans detained by ICE during ongoing raids in Minneapolis - ICT

Native American community members report increased ICE presence, fears of racial profiling

ictnews.org

Oh boy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q8oi66/video_posted_by_a_local_showing_citizens_being

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Because there are a large percentage of the left that will identify and doxx anyone they can. It puts the LEO families and themselves at great risk. Especially the likes of MS13 and TdA. Those two groups have already put bounties out for some of those already identified. And these gangs are not adverse to blowing up a whole house with the family in it or gunning down the family in a driveway. My 2 cents.

But ordinary police officers doing their normal duties are not masked and are at a lot more of risk then ICE officers who move from city to city.

And these gangs are not adverse to blowing up a whole house with the family in it or gunning down the family in a driveway. My 2 cents.

Examples please!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ordinary police aren't deporting people or sending them to prison in El Salvador.

Examples please!
None specific. It's pretty common knowledge the viciousness and determination these cartel gangs use in reprisals. ICE and DHS have already been victims of contracts.

Cartels issuing bounties up to $50,000 for hits on ICE, CBP agents: DHS

Drug cartels have "disseminated a structured bounty program to incentivize violence against federal personnel," according to a press release from DHS.

abcnews.go.com

"The federal agency alleges cartels are offering $2,000 for intelligence gathering and doxing of agents, $5,000–$10,000 for kidnapping or non-lethal assaults on standard ICE/CBP officers and up to $50,000 for the assassination of high-ranking officials.

Gangs like the Latin Kings have also deployed "spotters" armed with firearms and radio communications to provide the real-time movements of CBP and ICE agents, according to DHS."

Bounties Originating From Mexico Offered to Shoot ICE and CBP Officers in Chicago | Homeland Security

DHS obtained credible intelligence indicating that Mexican criminals, in coordination with domestic extremist groups have placed targeted bounties on ICE and CBP personnel.

www.dhs.gov

"These criminal networks have issued explicit instructions to U.S.-based sympathetics, including street gangs in Chicago, to monitor, harass, and assassinate federal agents. Specific details from ongoing investigations include:

Spotter Networks: In neighborhoods like Chicago's Pilsen and Little Village, gang members affiliated with groups such as the Latin Kings have deployed "spotters" on rooftops equipped with firearms and radio communications. These individuals track ICE and CBP movements in real-time, relaying coordinates. This surveillance has enabled ambushes and disruptions during routine enforcement actions, including recent raids under Operation Midway Blitz.
Tiered Bounty System: Cartels have disseminated a structured bounty program to incentivize violence against federal personnel, with payouts escalating based on rank and action taken:
$2,000 for gathering intelligence or doxxing agents (including photos and family details).
$5,000–$10,000 for kidnapping or non-lethal assaults on standard ICE/CBP officers.
Up to $50,000 for the assassination of high-ranking officials."

Now, I might be wrong, but I've never heard of beat cops being exposed to this level of threat. Given an agent's identity is given a specific bounty, I have zero problem with them being masked. Especially when it is not against the law.

Is it Legal for Law Enforcement to Hide their Identity in the U.S.?

Guide to Rules About Police and Law Enforcement Wearing Masks & Using Unmarked Vehicles in the United States Federal and local police, including ICE and DHS, have increasingly worn masks and driven unmarked vehicles during immigration raids and tactical operations. Agencies justify this based on...

lawsoup.org

"Can officers wear masks and hide their face?

There is currently no federal law that requires law enforcement to wear uniforms or show their faces during arrests."

 

[Furniture]

But ordinary police officers doing their normal duties are not masked and are at a lot more of risk then ICE officers who move from city to city.

This is a disingenuous argument...

ICE officers face a unique problem created in equal parts by the Trump Admin, and Dems who are looking to create a "relatable" enemy.