A Deeply Fractured US

[Altair]

Wow, he really went in on her.

Conservatives 2022: Honking and obstructing the road is Freedom.


Conservatives 2026: Honking and obstructing the road is domestic terrorism

 

[QV]

Andrew McCarthy, former Assistant US Attorney and no friend of Trump or the current ICE leadership, writes about the ICE shooting here:

A Tragedy, but a Justified Use of Force | National Review

The legal issue is whether the ICE agent reasonably perceived a dangerous threat, not immigration enforcement policy or commonsense compassion for Renee Good.

www.nationalreview.com

....But no matter where you come out on all of that — and regardless of whether you believe Renee Good’s death resulted from either her poor decision-making in gratuitously courting danger, or Trump’s excessive zeal in ramping up immigration enforcement — the legal case comes down to whether the agent reasonably perceived a potentially lethal threat.

From what we have seen so far, he did.

 

[QV]

was Iryna Zarutska murdered by the state?

Good wasn't murdered by anyone. But she almost got an LEO.

Murder must be condemned, shootings in self defence are tragic but necessary. That is the difference.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Andrew McCarthy, former Assistant US Attorney and no friend of Trump or the current ICE leadership, writes about the ICE shooting here:

A Tragedy, but a Justified Use of Force | National Review

The legal issue is whether the ICE agent reasonably perceived a dangerous threat, not immigration enforcement policy or commonsense compassion for Renee Good.

www.nationalreview.com

....But no matter where you come out on all of that — and regardless of whether you believe Renee Good’s death resulted from either her poor decision-making in gratuitously courting danger, or Trump’s excessive zeal in ramping up immigration enforcement — the legal case comes down to whether the agent reasonably perceived a potentially lethal threat.

From what we have seen so far, he did.

There is vide with an view from an elevated position down the street, where I can see he probably thought she was trying to run him down because she does strike him wither her vehicle and he seems to slide down the driver side making the shots.

I dunno.

What I do know is as tensions rise I don't expect to less and less of these.

 

[Genetk44]

Ice agents own video clearly shows her turning the wheel to move away from him. That along with him putting himself in front of her car not once but twice, which is totally against policy and pretty well confirms that he put himself in potential harms way. Him drawing his weapon while she was actually reversing away, he fired into a moving car ( also against policy) , not once but three times three times shows he actually wanted to shoot somebody.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

not once but three times three times shows he actually wanted to shoot somebody.

Now, how exactly do you know that? Academic expertise, or a WAG?

 

[QV]

Ice agents own video clearly shows her turning the wheel to move away from him. That along with him putting himself in front of her car not once but twice, which is totally against policy and pretty well confirms that he put himself in potential harms way. Him drawing his weapon while she was actually reversing away, he fired into a moving car ( also against policy) , not once but three times three times shows he actually wanted to shoot somebody.

You should take your argument up with Andrew McCarthy.

One thing is for certain: confronting and harassing LEO who are in the execution of their duties (whether you agree with that or not) will likely end badly for you one way or the other.

 

[FSTO]

Murdered for driving away? You are delusional QV. They had all the information they needed to go to her home and arrest her if needed. There was no need to go to DEFCON 8 Billion because her car was in their way.

And WTF is with these clowns grabbing a door handle of moving vehicle. So what will happen next if you get the door open? You're going to reach across and unbuckle the seatbelt and drag them away from the moving vehicle? So now you have a NUC vehicle? That is more safe?

VP Vance says Meathead ICE agent had been dragged a couple of months before. So not only is he stupid, but is incapable of learning from past mistakes. Also VP Vance said the agent would be twitchy because of the previous incident. Then WTF is he still on an operation then.
Finally if I was the agent who was standing beside him as he blasted off three rounds at the woman I'd be thanking my lucky stars that this idiot didn't kill me. I then would have punched him in the face and walk away from the clown show.

Correct that, I would be caught dead being closer than 5,000 miles to these ultra-maroons!

 

[FSTO]

Good wasn't murdered by anyone. But she almost got an LEO.

Murder must be condemned, shootings in self defence are tragic but necessary. That is the difference.

F**k Off QV. He shot her 3 times in the face!!

He was in self-proclaim danger because he is a moron.

I fully expect to be censured for the swear word, but for the love of god QV, you cannot be this obtuse!

 

[Altair]

F**k Off QV. He shot her 3 times in the face!!

He was in self-proclaim danger because he is a moron.

I fully expect to be censured for the swear word, but for the love of god QV, you cannot be this obtuse!

Take a breath, it's not worth it.

 

[markppcli]

You should take your argument up with Andrew McCarthy.

One thing is for certain: confronting and harassing LEO who are in the execution of their duties (whether you agree with that or not) will likely end badly for you one way or the other.

So the "freedom convoy" should have been shot?

 

[Altair]

So the "freedom convoy" should have been shot?

That version of honking and obstruction was freedom.

 

[Remius]

You should take your argument up with Andrew McCarthy.

One thing is for certain: confronting and harassing LEO who are in the execution of their duties (whether you agree with that or not) will likely end badly for you one way or the other.

Apparently it depends on your politics if it ends badly or not. Plenty of Jan 6ers were pardoned for doing exactly what you describe and you seemed to be all for that at the time as I recall.

 

[QV]

F**k Off QV. He shot her 3 times in the face!!

He was in self-proclaim danger because he is a moron.

I fully expect to be censured for the swear word, but for the love of god QV, you cannot be this obtuse!

You could take your argument up with Andrew McCarthy.

 

[QV]

So the "freedom convoy" should have been shot?

No. Not generally. But if anyone of them were about to potentially run over an LEO - yes.

 

[QV]

Apparently it depends on your politics if it ends badly or not. Plenty of Jan 6ers were pardoned for doing exactly what you describe and you seemed to be all for that at the time as I recall.

They were also hunted down and arrested. I believe only Babbitt was shot (for dubious reasons) - I don't think she presented an imminent death or grievous harm threat. But I wasn't there and the officer has been cleared.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

But a person was murdered for Christ sakes!!!

A person was shot and killed.

I think it's a little early to say it was murder.

 

[Altair]

A person was shot and killed.

I think it's a little early to say it was murder.

I'm talking a break from the Internet today.

When Fishbone Jones is the voice of reason I don't know what to do with myself.

 

[FSTO]

A person was shot and killed.

I think it's a little early to say it was murder.

Sorry Fishbone, but that was second degree murder.

Degrees of Murder Explained: 1st vs 2nd vs 3rd Degree

Learn the difference between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree murder, including key elements, intent, penalties, and sentencing. Read our full guide.

manshoorylaw.com

Second Degree Murder​

2nd-degree murder or second-degree manslaughter is still a very serious crime but is a step down in severity when compared to the 1st degree. In general terms, a 2nd-degree murder is one that doesn’t have any kind of premeditation and may only have been intended to cause harm, rather than death.

• Intentional Killings Without Premeditation

One of the defining aspects of a second-degree manslaughter or murder charge is that there isn’t any sort of plan or premeditation on behalf of the killer. Even if they intend to kill someone at the moment of the crime, it may simply occur in the heat of the moment and isn’t something that they planned out in advance.
According to VP Vance he likely had a hair trigger to begin with. That in no way absolves him of the crime.

• Intent to Cause Only Serious Bodily Harm

This is another factor that might define second-degree murder. The defendant might not have actually intended to kill their victim. Instead, they may have only had the intent to cause serious bodily harm.
Did he intend to shoot her when he left his vehicle no, but it was not accidental either.

• Extreme Indifference to Human Life

Another type of second-degree murder is when a victim dies because the defendant showed an extreme level of indifference for their life.
When he said "F**king B**tch after he pumped three bullets into her, walked over to the car and glanced at the dead body and provided no aid, and then followed up with a circling of the finger over his head as if to say, "We're done here, lets GTFO!" That is the definition of indifference to human life.

 

[suffolkowner]

Andrew McCarthy, former Assistant US Attorney and no friend of Trump or the current ICE leadership, writes about the ICE shooting here:

A Tragedy, but a Justified Use of Force | National Review

The legal issue is whether the ICE agent reasonably perceived a dangerous threat, not immigration enforcement policy or commonsense compassion for Renee Good.

www.nationalreview.com

....But no matter where you come out on all of that — and regardless of whether you believe Renee Good’s death resulted from either her poor decision-making in gratuitously courting danger, or Trump’s excessive zeal in ramping up immigration enforcement — the legal case comes down to whether the agent reasonably perceived a potentially lethal threat.

From what we have seen so far, he did.

Good wasn't murdered by anyone. But she almost got an LEO.

Murder must be condemned, shootings in self defence are tragic but necessary. That is the difference.

how does that address Barnes v. Felix, issued in May 2025 US Supreme Court decision on officer created jeopardy?