A Deeply Fractured US
- Thread starter BeyondTheNow
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Possibly. I can summarize my position in two sentences. The second statement is pre-eminent.
ICE should not behave the way it is currently behaving.
The way ICE behaves does not derogate from the administration's authority to enforce.
Then a question is whether those who agree with the first statement also agree with the pre-eminence of the second, or are they hoping/contending that failure to meet the first condition de-legitimizes enforcement? That would mean that any enforcement of any law could be de-legitimized simply by forcing authorities to escalate past some threshold.
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Is that not already the case? You need justification for a warrant or wiretap. Reasonable grounds for arrest. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure. Rules on proportionality. Restrictions on entrapment. Obligations on disclosure.
All of these are designed to prevent the State from using unreasonable force or methods against its citizens in their enforcement of the law. If the authorities escalate past these thresholds the enforcement actions are as you say "de-legitimized".
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I think what part of the confusion is that ICE goons often use administrative warrants (instead of judicial warrants) for immigration enforcement actions. These suckers are internal DHS/ICE documents that allow agents to question and arrest noncitizens.
ICE needs to have probably cause to make a lawful arrest. For immigration violations (circa 2024 - 2026 USA) probable cause generally comes from evidence the person is removable under immigration law (non white?)
Probable cause standards and contexts differ from criminal arrests because being removable is a civil violation.
ICE needs to have probably cause to make a lawful arrest. For immigration violations (circa 2024 - 2026 USA) probable cause generally comes from evidence the person is removable under immigration law (non white?)
Probable cause standards and contexts differ from criminal arrests because being removable is a civil violation.
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As a rhetorical flourish, sure; practically, it just means they're subject to challenge in courts, like every other abuse of the past decades.
HavokFour
Army.ca Veteran
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On the topic of ICE and warrants to enter homes, the entire thread below is very much worth a read.
threadreaderapp.com
apnews.com
Thread by @ReichlinMelnick on Thread Reader App
@ReichlinMelnick: 🚨HOLY CRAP. An ICE whistleblower just revealed a secret memo authorizing ICE officers to break into homes without a judicial warrant, which DHS's own legal training materials say is unconstitutiona...…
threadreaderapp.com
Immigration officers assert sweeping power to enter homes without a judge's warrant, memo says
An Immigration and Customs Enforcement memo obtained by The Associated Press reveals that the agency allows immigration officers to forcibly enter homes to make arrests without a judicial warrant.
apnews.com
I would argue the kind of aggression being seen from ICE is performative and tantamount to intimidation rather than mission focused on deportations.
People forget. Obama hired Hohman, the same guy, to ramp up deportations. Obama was called "Deporter-in-Chief" by most of the left and some Republicans and deported more than Trump's first term. But how many clashes did ICE have back then with the average citizen?
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Can ICE Enter a Home to Make an Arrest With Only an Administrative Warrant?
A tentative take, on both the rights and the remedies.
www.lawfaremedia.org
some thoughts on the legalities involved
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Obama and Biden both used people turned back, at the border, as deportees for reporting purposes. Not that I care who did what. Suffice to say, ICE enforcement has been going on forever. It wasn’t until Trump was elected on border control and started deportations, that the anarchists got all discombobulated. Of course now, agitators are not against ICE for moral reasons. They are acting like they do because they are being paid by people like Soros and the Tides Foundation. Paid by people who want to see massive nationwide chaos in order to collapse the US republic.
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Agree; if you believe the administration is not completely stupid then it's reasonable to assume one of their early aims was to slow border crossing attempts to a trickle. An uncompromising out-of-the-gates attitude would do that, and border crossing attempts have slowed to a trickle. It is the converse of the "message" sent by early Biden administration policies that triggered a massive migration wave.
Out of all attempts, some are immediately turned back before they can enter the US and fill criteria which entitle them to "due process". Of those not turned back, some (typically most) are intercepted and (theoretically) begin their legal journey to determine whether they may remain or not, and the remainder are "gotaways". Of the intercepts, some will show up for their hearings, and some of those will be deported.
Turn back, intercept, and gotaway statistics all depend on the number of attempts and the amount of effort put into enforcement at the borders. Deports depend on intercepts. An administration whose policies encourage attempts and only weakly try to control the border can post impressive deport numbers because the two input numbers on which it depends are very large.
It's irresponsible to send signals that encourage people to attempt long risky journeys through gauntlets like the Darien Gap and human traffickers. It would be cruel if the intent was to mostly allow illegal immigration while creating another weak gauntlet to turn some people, more or less randomly, into deportation statistics to satisfy critics.
Ugh. Eventually someone who finds themself not protected by the 4th amendment is going to resort to the 2nd. That’s gonna be a bad day when (at this point I no longer believe ‘if’) that happens.On the topic of ICE and warrants to enter homes, the entire thread below is very much worth a read.
Thread by @ReichlinMelnick on Thread Reader App
@ReichlinMelnick: 🚨HOLY CRAP. An ICE whistleblower just revealed a secret memo authorizing ICE officers to break into homes without a judicial warrant, which DHS's own legal training materials say is unconstitutiona...…
Immigration officers assert sweeping power to enter homes without a judge's warrant, memo says
An Immigration and Customs Enforcement memo obtained by The Associated Press reveals that the agency allows immigration officers to forcibly enter homes to make arrests without a judicial warrant.
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When that happens one side is going to celebrate and the other side will act like it's WW III.
I hope non-goon police officers aren't hit in the crossfire or targeted when people finally have enough. And I hope they have the courage to stand up to Trump when he launches.
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I like to think most people would be thinking "yeah, something's gotta be done about people that are overstaying their documentation re: the rules, but maybe there's better ways of doing this."
In the end, though, where does the fed buck ultimately stop? And who sets the tone, even if they don't say, "yeah, it's ok to be dicks"?
Also, no matter how worthy the "what" may be, the administration does itself no optics favours doing shit like this during the "how" phase, either.
White House posts digitally altered image of woman arrested after ICE protest
Guardian analysis shows images are the same, with Nekima Levy Armstrong looking composed in original but sobbing after alteration
www.theguardian.com
White House Doctored Photo With Google AI to Make It Look Like an Activist Was Sobbing During Perp Walk
An Intercept analysis confirmed that the White House used Google AI tools to alter the photo of Minnesota activist Nekima Levy Armstrong.
theintercept.com
White House Admits to Sharing a Fake Photo of Minnesota Activist After Her Arrest
“The memes will continue,” an official said in response to criticism of the altered image.
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Are they also arresting a 5 year old, using them as bait, and arresting their father before firing them off to a detention center, despite being legally there and with having no criminal record in the red states as well? Entering houses without warrants? Seizing random people?
Or are the peopel in red states just taking it like cowards? And if so, why do they need all their guns to protect themselves from a tyranical government?
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