A Deeply Fractured US

[ytz]

Meanwhile, it's a good thing Canada has such a laser-like focus on serious post-grad PME for its officers.

Guessing you haven't seen a textbook, let alone a staff college curriculum in decades.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Guessing you haven't seen a textbook, let alone a staff college curriculum in decades.

I'm thinking of all the bitching on threads here, which often produces two main and somewhat opposed streams of thought: that "war studies" is a cop-out not held in high esteem by some; and "do we really need university-educated officers?" for some others. I suppose you and I would fall into the former group. My impression - stipulated, it could be mistaken - is that Canada has its work cut out for it to even reach the pre-Trump levels of post-grad education met by the US military, which, even if particular doors are closed, will still continue to seek post-grad education. If only the energy spent fretting about the US could be channeled into productive advocacy to improve our own back yard.

 

[FJAG]

Meanwhile, it's a good thing Canada has such a laser-like focus on serious post-grad PME for its officers.

Interestingly when I applied for law school the application process looked for a broad diversity of pre-law education as preferred. It wasn't just humanities, it extended to hard sciences, politics and theoretical studies. The belief was that a broad education developed the critical thinking necessary for a proper foundation of a legal education.

There is no doubt that many universities cater to what many consider basket weaving 101 courses. That's because in any organization truly dedicated to education you want to explore the boundaries. MAGA doesn't want that. Conservatism is also an adjective describing people who do not want to see change. It's always interesting to see various conservative cultures pick the spot in human evolution that they want to stop progressing at.

If conservatives truly want to have critical thinking blossom then get rid of all religious based private Grade 1-12 education. But Oh! No! that would put paid to most of the Charter schools publicly funded down south.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If conservatives truly want to have critical thinking blossom then get rid of all religious based private Grade 1-12 education. But Oh! No! that would put paid to most of the Charter schools publicly funded down south.

Ridiculous. Public schools are as capable of delivering shoddy education, especially in the US. So are "grievance studies" programs. There is a huge gulf between those and traditional humanities.

Religious belief and education aren't useful predictors of ability. My working life was spent among people with credentials in hard sciences and engineering (math, physics, comp sci, EE, eng phys, etc). To put it in Canadian context, some had worked for luminary companies such as MDA and MPR at this end of the country. Some of the best were also deeply religious, and/or had religious education, and/or had kids in private schools or even home-schooled. Ability will out; what matters is 11-12 - particularly 12 as the launch point into post-sec - and whether or not the post-secondary education is crippled by political activism.

 

[ytz]

I'm thinking of all the bitching on threads here, which often produces two main and somewhat opposed streams of thought: that "war studies" is a cop-out not held in high esteem by some; and "do we really need university-educated officers?" for some others. I suppose you and I would fall into the former group. My impression - stipulated, it could be mistaken - is that Canada has its work cut out for it to even reach the pre-Trump levels of post-grad education met by the US military,

You are massively misunderstanding what the criticism is.

What people complain about is that those folks get the same SCRIT points as everybody else. But instead of actually doing a full load of classes like any normal grad student, half their credits are from CFC. That MA has de facto become a way to make sure a lot of operator trades have a Master's degree on their resume so they don't look like total dullards. Debatable whether that is fair or not.

My American colleagues would actually get more SCRIT points for their STEM degrees or for attending more prestigious schools on recognized programs (like a Fulbright or Rhodes Scholar). I got the same points (1 pt) for my two STEM degrees as my buddy who did a part time MA at Carleton. And an even bigger complaint is Second Language is worth 4 pts on the SCRIT. Going to NPS actually set me back getting promoted. But it was a worthwhile experience for me and I came home with a skillset which the CAF suddenly found useful in setting up a space component.

which, even if particular doors are closed, will still continue to seek post-grad education. If only the energy spent fretting about the US could be channeled into productive advocacy to improve our own back yard.

This is a thread on the US in a forum about military matters. I would assume discussion about what is happening to their military is topical.

You can go roam US Military forums and you will see tons of criticism of this policy from serving personnel and veterans too. Of course, there's always enlisted folks who think any education is pointless. But by and large this model of sending their officers and generals to do graduate education at good schools has served them well for decades. It's ensured that the US military has become and remains the premier fighting force on the planet.

You know where you see the government demanding that military officers and senior bureaucrats only attend party approved schools? Authoritarian regimes like China.

I am willing to bet that a Trump U educated Colonel or General will not do better that a supposedly woke Yale graduate.

 

[FJAG]

Ability will out; what matters is 11-12 - particularly 12 as the launch point into post-sec - and whether or not the post-secondary education is crippled by political activism.

Ability will not out if its been formed by a decade of propaganda. Yes some may escape their indoctrination, most will succumb to it.

Primary and secondary education is the foundation of beliefs. That's where the guardrails need to be. Once they get to post-secondary then they will be able to properly analyze what is relevant and what is bull shit.

Post-secondary education isn't crippled by political activism. The fact is conservative political activism exists just as much as the political activism that the conservatives despise. If there wasn't conservative activism then guys like Charlie Kirk would have been out of a job. Let's call a spade a spade. The problem isn't that there is political activism in universities; the problem is that it's political activism that opposes the Right.

 

[ytz]

A whole bunch of Ivy League schools in the US actually give preference to serving military and veterans. That perspective is highly valued. If you're worried about "woke", removing the guy/gal who can talk about real life experiences is not going to help achieve your goals.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

You know where you see the government demanding that military officers and senior bureaucrats only attend party approved schools? Authoritarian regimes like China.

I think you should also look at France and the UK. In France, if you wish to become a senior bureaucrat, you have to go to specific universities, depending on the department you wish to work in. It's not quite as clear for England, but if you wish to make it to secretary or under-secretary level, you'd better have gotten a first (or at max a second) from Oxford or Cambridge. You get a first from LSU? Forget it, they don't think LSU is a university.

 

[ytz]

I’m out of CAF now but both respectful and envious of the funded education options. I’m doing my master’s now and there’s a CAF officer whose job for two years is to complete the same program. I’d do shameful things for an opportunity like that, instead of booking it from work to class once a week and juggling a toddler during readings in the evening.

One of my criticisms of our sponsored education programs is that we aren't actually strict on workload, content, etc. Everything depends on the sponsor. Mine simply told me learn xyz for your job. So I made sure I covered those classes and then looked at what else I could do and maximized the opportunity. I could have easily slacked off and had half the workload. The Americans had detailed matrices of all the courses they had to take to get their advanced qual code. Best part, the CAF never even gave me the qual code for Space. So even more I only have the weapons code I was sent for. They didn't know how to process a program not done at RMC. I do think the CAF needs to do better job both educating officers and understanding how to leverage that education. We suck at both right now.

 

[ytz]

I think you should also look at France and the UK. In France, if you wish to become a senior bureaucrat, you have to go to specific universities, depending on the department you wish to work in. It's not quite as clear for England, but if you wish to make it to secretary or under-secretary level, you'd better have gotten a first (or at max a second) from Oxford or Cambridge. You get a first from LSU? Forget it, they don't think LSU is a university.

That's less about ideological control than that just maintaining old fashioned elitism though. How many senior bureaucrats or GOFOs do we have in Canada who weren't educated at a T20 school or RMC?