Abortion Issues - Mega Thread [MERGED]

[ttlbmg]

Ha, I guess so. I sometimes think that we have a little less of the conservative-traditional viewpoint within the government that we see in the US. Although so much of their culture seems to leak into Canada.

 

[medicineman]

Interesting, and so relevent. I hope that this image is changing. (I'd love to see shows like Jersey Shore go off the air! That and Sixteen and Pregnant- I was hoping at one point that show would send a better message, but it doesn't seem to, though I will admit I have never sat through an entire episode) Do you think that this is as prevalent in Canada as it is in the US?

Hmm let me think...we had a teenager when I was in training that delivered her second kid, and was only 15.  Helped deliver a number of kids with moms in the 16-18 age range, and have seen my fair share of teenage chlamydia and gonorrhea.  I'd have to say yes.

MM

 

[OldSolduer]

Tangent here: Just a question.

Can teen pregnancy be generational. By this I mean can there be a history of teen pregancy within a family.

Grandma - married, pregnant at sixteen - not unusual in "the olden days"
Mom - same story but she was nineteen
GrandDaughter - same story as Mom
Great Granddaughters - pregant/unmarried at sixteen or so.

Just a question.

Thanks

 

[medicineman]

I wouldn't say it's generational, but something can be said about kids getting the idea that it's acceptable because everyone else in the family did (you know that weird way of thinking that teenagers have).  Take it one step further and if you live in an area where it's the norm, then not only is it acceptable, it's apparently what's supposed to be done.

MM

 

[Kirkhill]

Jim,

from personal observation I can say that in Indiana, where I worked for a couple of years, 36 year old grandmothers were not uncommon.  The difference between your proposal and their situation was that everybody was married.

Baby = 0
Mother = 18
Grandmother = 36
Great Grandmother = 54
Great Great Grandmother = 72
Great Great Great Grandmother = 90

All perfectly legal, and traditional, and welcomed.  And often you found the entire extended family living within a couple of blocks of each other. 

The difference is that Great Great Great Grandmother may have been married as young as 15.

As Mr. Campbell is fond of saying:  Culture matters.

 

[PMedMoe]

Oklahoma judge overrules state law requiring ultrasound before abortion

An Oklahoma County judge has overruled a state law requiring women seeking abortions to have an ultrasound of the fetus before the abortion, according to court documents.

District Judge Brian Dixon's clerk confirmed the decision Wednesday, saying the judge ruled that the law was "unconstitutional and unenforceable."

More at link

 

[OldSolduer]

Oklahoma judge overrules state law requiring ultrasound before abortion

An Oklahoma County judge has overruled a state law requiring women seeking abortions to have an ultrasound of the fetus before the abortion, according to court documents.

District Judge Brian Dixon's clerk confirmed the decision Wednesday, saying the judge ruled that the law was "unconstitutional and unenforceable."

More at link

:goodpost:

Concur

 

[MAJONES]

Techno's argument is well put.  Every person has the right to control their own body.  The conflict arises when what you want to do with your body affects somebody else.  The real question is when does a fetus become a person?  Once the fetus is a person it is no longer just a part of a woman's body.
Another way to look at this is through a heirarchy of rights; certain rights take precedence over others.  This is well established in law.  Once the fetus is a person it has the right to safety of person.  It is pretty clear that, (in most cases), this right is going to take precedence over a woman's right to do what she wants with her body.
As was stated above, the whole crux of this problem is determining when the fetus makes the transition from a being a mass of cells to being a person.  It would be difficult to argue that it becomes a person at the time of conception.  It would be just as difficult to argue that it is not a person until it is born.  Quite a dilemma.
As for Techno's pictures; never be afraid to show it like it is.

 

[PMedMoe]

I'll remember that next time there's a thread on STDs or beheadings.

Exactly.

As far as when the fetus is a person: I tend to agree with ArmyVern, when it can survive outside of the mother's body (my opinion only).

 

[The Bread Guy]

Let's start off with a lock for the moment - more to follow, I'm sure.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[armyvern]

And so the CPC have elected another anti-abortion, same-sex-marriage opposing, regressive social conservation as leader. ...
The CPC needs to be courting my generation better. They failed to do so. The old social-regressive dog just don't hunt anymore with us...

You do realize that Parliament saw a free vote on the matter of same-sex marriage and that every single party had members who voted to oppose it as well as those who supported it? 

Abortion and same-sex marriage are NOT relegated realms of one political party or another.  I'm a social libertarian who happens to be a  staunch fiscal conservative as well.  The social side is already enshrined in law and well-protected, but the requirement to be responsible with the tax payers dime is not and ergo the Liberals and NDP will not be seeing my vote any time soon.

So tired of the "social-regressive" label put on anything Big C or little c.  What bunk - superior morality is not the domain of the Liberals or NDP alone.

 

[RocketRichard]

You do realize that Parliament saw a free vote on the matter of same-sex marriage and that every single party had members who voted to oppose it as well as those who supported it? 

Abortion and same-sex marriage are NOT relegated realms of one political party or another.  I'm a social libertarian who happens to be a  staunch fiscal conservative as well.  The social side is already enshrined in law and well-protected, but the requirement to be responsible with the tax payers dime is not and ergo the Liberals and NDP will not be seeing my vote any time soon.

So tired of the "social-regressive" label put on anything Big C or little c.  What bunk - superior morality is not the domain of the Liberals or NDP alone.

Well that escalated. Can't we all just get along


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[armyvern]

Well that escalated. Can't we all just get along


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Escalation? No.  Just tired of the same old morally superior inferior stereotypes that always come up when discussing anything conservative.  It's crap.  I know homophobic Liberals, NDPers and Conservatives. Even Trudeau 1.0 only wanted to legalize abortion under very certain conditions.  Courts sorted that out.

 

[RocketRichard]

Escalation? No.  Just tired of the same old morally superior inferior stereotypes that always come up when discussing anything conservative.  It's crap.  I know homophobic Liberals, NDPers and Conservatives.

The issue of late is labelling people as left/right/con/lib etc. I agree with parts of all parties and disagree with others. Come election time vote as one decides (ideology, party, individual, issue etc) using all info available. This whole right vs left stuff is not on. Have a great day.


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[Loachman]

Courts sorted that out.

Not really. The Supreme Court merely trashed the law of the time, and nobody's dared/bothered to replace that legislation since then, so it's just a free-for-all.

And no Western civilization produces enough children to maintain its population anymore.

 

[armyvern]

Not really. The Supreme Court merely trashed the law of the time, and nobody's dared/bothered to replace that legislation since then, so it's just a free-for-all.

I'd disagree.  The Morgentaler case pretty much summed up the end to waspy men deciding what was right or wrong for my vagina and made it "my" choice.  This woman is extremely thankful for that.

And no Western civilization produces enough children to maintain its population anymore.

Blame Henry.  >  Seriously though, you're correct on this front.

 

[Loachman]

The Morgentaler case pretty much summed up the end to waspy men deciding what was right or wrong for my vagina and made it "my" choice.  This woman is extremely thankful for that.

The persons with the most stake in this matter, those who most deserve a choice, are completely deprived of that choice. They would not likely be so thankful, were they able to express themselves.

There are many women who are pro-life as well, and also not as thankful for that decision as some others.

And every living person should be thankful that their mothers did not choose to end their lives prematurely.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And every living person should be thankful that their mothers did not choose to end their lives prematurely.

However, would they know otherwise?

 

[armyvern]

There are many women who are pro-life as well, and also not as thankful for that decision as some others.

And that is their choice.  That's the trick.  Our bodies - Our choice.  I've never had to make that choice, but I am damn thankful it's mine to make.  That personal choice bears no political stripe. 

Imagine if women put into law that all 'ye men shall have vasectomies to ensure no abortions occurred.

 

[Scott]

Imagine if women put into law that all 'ye men shall have vasectomies to ensure no abortions occurred.

Oh, Snap!

Edit: or snip...