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ADHD, ADD, and why we can't get in rants......

TheNewTeddy

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Before I begin, I'd like to note that I used google to try to find clear answers (without success, and after that) I signed up here. I've also read the Merged Depression Thread and a different, locked, thread. Neither provided the specific answers that I'm looking for.

I will try to be general so that anyone else happening upon the thread can find answers from it as well.

I am wondering what the absolute no-no's are, in terms of mental health and joining the CF. What mental health issues will get you an immediate refusal; which will limit you as to what you can do? The two answers I've gleamed from the other threads is that if you take anti-depressants, you likely wont be able to go into those situations where you may end up without medication for some time. The second, and post useful thing I read is that if you do suffer from depression or mental issues, you should give serious consideration to your own abilities, and ask if you truly want to join the forces.

My question, in general, is then what things limit you and how.

My specifics are as follows, but please don't get so tied up on the specifics that the thread becomes useless to anyone else who, like myself, happened upon this place looking for answers  :-\

I have depression. My psychiatrist prescribes me regular anti-depressants. I also take Ritalin. The reason for that is a bit more confusing. When I was little, a psychologist told my mother (without any testing) that I had Dysgraphia. In University, the psychologist told me (again without testing) that the symptoms of what I thought were Dysgraphia were part of ADHD, and prescribed the Ritalin. She also told me I was Bi-Polar. Upon moving to Toronto, my family doctor told me that I likely had OCD, Clinical Depression, and Aspergers. My current psychiatrist as told me, flat out, that I don't have Aspergers; he says "You have Autism."

So I don't really know what I do or do not have. Dysgraphia, Bi-Polar, OCD, ADHD, Clinical Depression, Autism. I don't know if I actually have any of these, or, if I have all of these. I'm wondering which of these might impact me if I were to decide to join the CF.

Thanks in advance.
 

Nauticus

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I am not a CF medical professional, so you should contact the recruiting centre to get official, direct answers yourself.

I do know that the CF does require a certain amount of time between using prescribed medications and applying to ensure that you can operate without the use of those medications. If you cannot operate effectively without medication, that may or may not affect your application.

My opinion is that it's good that you wish to serve your country, but at the same time, you have to gauge your capabilities in serving your country. Every job and position may find himself in a potential combat situation, without medication. Every job is a soldier first.

After you gauge that, speak to a recruiter and find out first-hand what, if any, opportunities exist and, if they do, what you must do to achieve them.
 

TheNewTeddy

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Humm. Thanks. I am debating going down to the recruiting centre and poking about (asking questions). There are a lot of questions I have, and it'd be good to get some answers to some of them!
 

m.k

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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but having just completed my medical, I was required to get my physician to sign a form stating I did not have ADHD. I was never diagnosed and have never been on medication, but if the circumstances were different, I was informed that I would likely be disqualified.
 

ModlrMike

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TheNewTeddy said:
So I don't really know what I do or do not have. Dysgraphia, Bi-Polar, OCD, ADHD, Clinical Depression, Autism. I don't know if I actually have any of these, or, if I have all of these. I'm wondering which of these might impact me if I were to decide to join the CF.

Thanks in advance.

Firstly, I'm not going to speak for the recruiting system. However, based on my experience, all - with the possible exception of the dysgraphia and OCD depending on their severity, would likely disqualify you. That being said, I'm not part of recruiting, so my vote doesn't count.

The chief thing you have to accept is that everyone gets to apply, not everyone gets to join. That may sound harsh, but it's the reality. Don't delude yourself that your application will be successful because you wish it so.

Good luck.
 

ABlock

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Hi all,


I have a problem on my hands. Basically, because "it could have helped in uni", I took ADHD pills for a year during university. Then I dropped it because it didn't bring the effects I hoped for. Now I have to get this form filled by a MD : a part is clinical (when I took it, etc), and a part is about behavior.


How do these standards work? I have no clue what the possible consequences can be. What happens if I can prove that I didn't take any meds for the last 4 years but some parts of the behavior-oriented questionnaire are checked? Can it block some specific jobs, like jobs requiring attention to details?

BTW, I did find the official "medical standards" (http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/default-eng.asp) but it doesn't detail what's going on with ADHD. Are the ADHD medical standards written somewhere?



Also, who will have access to this in the future? Might my on-the-field superior get to know about it? Is this medical part only to get a "good to go" stamp, or can it be brought back in my face even though I don't apply to become pilot or something?



Thanks for anyone's help

ABlock
:camo:
 

medicineman

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To answer a couple of things, only the basic stuff is public as far as medical standards - keeps people from trying to circumvent them by lying or fraud (not pointing fingers but have run into it lots).  The standards for both enrollment and retention are also reviewed annually and a big manual comes out...but you won't find that on the public site.

As far as the medical and the information contained in it, well that is the beginning of your CF medical file that will follow you through your career - it's not a rubber stamp, it's to ensure medical fitness for enrollment as well as a baseline for your health throughout your service.  The only people with access are Health Services personnel directly involved with your care, so no, bosses aren't entitled to view the file or know the diagnoses contained on it.

The questionnaire - well ADHD is a behavioural disorder, so yeah, that's kind of important for the Recruit Medical Office to know about.  There is a baseline of what they'd consider to be acceptable behaviour and not and each person is judged as an individual based on how that assessment is written.  Before you go off and find a Doc in a Box to fill it out for you, you might notice a little thing at the bottom that says "How long has this person been under your care?" - if it reads "The last 30 minutes" (wouldn't say it if I hadn't seen it or written it myself), the RMO will take that into consideration - and likely put your file into the "NFL" (Not F*&king Likely) basket OR send you letter saying they want a formal specialist letter.  Make sure it's the doc you know.

If you have detail issues, don't forget, all personnel in the CF have to meet certain basic safety standards, alot of which are detail oriented - weapons safety, safety around vehicles, ammo, ships and aircraft, etc, not to mention the routine aspects of what most jobs in the Service entail - so you might not be suitable for enrollment.  I'd prepare yourself for that now, because you just might get that letter in the mail.  And if that happens, it's not the end of the world, even if it seems like it.  If you really want the job, you can seek out therapy to help you work around your issues, but you yourself have to do that hard work - and if you're successful, you can reapply with that new assessment.

Anyhow, good luck.

MM
 

ABlock

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[Sorry in advance - I'd be happy to put this into an existing thread, but the existing thread for this is locked]


Hi,

I have an ADHD case on my hands. I took the pills for a year so it's in the file.

I am worried since the behavioral questions are very subjective. Last time I met a shrink to assess something, I was more or less asked "Do you think that you're forgetting enough stuff to make so that pills might help? Yes? Alright... so here are pills." Now I'm going to be asked "Do you think that........? Yes/No?" Hell...! I don't wanna be wishy-washy.

Basically, I'm clearly not a manual kind of guy. I can miss things my construction work friends wouldn't miss, and they'd tell me "gosh! you stayed too long in university!" (- is that a problem?). Like anyone, I hope the CF can use my skills. How can I make so that whether boxes get ticked or not IS NOT a matter of which MD I meet?
Also, how can I help them evaluate whether or not the degree of my forgetfulness/whatever is clinical? (I'll give the MD examples alright, but I hardly see what more I can do...)


Also: No medical people know me. No ONE MD follows my case. I just go to the hospital if I actually have something, and then I leave. And the psychiatrist who met me is gone. If I get a paper saying "I've met this guy for 30 min", I've been told that my file will look silly - and I could get a "rejected" paper for it.


Then again, is it a problem if I stayed too long in universities?... Hell.. I hope not.



Thanks for your answers

ABlock
 

PMedMoe

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I think medicineman pretty much answered your question(s) in the other thread.

Just to clarify:  When you say you're not a "manual" kind of guy, do you mean "manual" as in a booklet or "manual" as in hands on?  If it's the latter, you may not be suitable for the CF.
 

medicineman

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If you're getting seen at a hospital, there is still a record there - ask to have a copy of the records of yoru visits.  Might cost a few bucks, but then there will be something that at least another person can interpret for you.

MM
 

kubota99

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There's something I don't understand... Why would they even refuse someone with ADD? It's not like if they where crazy or something...
Hell, us ADD's have been told all our ADD life that we're normal, bla bla bla, and now this? What a way to break a dream...

So, now I would need to wait a whole year off meds, just to retry, and go through the whole process of application... All this because of medication to make me serious and not screw around, to make me pay a bit more attention in class... Basically to make me who I am not...

So here I am told that I can't follow my dream, even if the whole selection process found that I was very suitable for enrolment, just because of ADD... How wonderfull!

This makes me mad, sad and so confused at the same time...
 

dapaterson

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The question is not the specific condition, but rather the requirement for regular medication.  The military cannot guarantee that someone will always have access to their meds, nor proper storage for meds.
 

PMedMoe

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dapaterson said:
The question is not the specific condition, but rather the requirement for regular medication.  The military cannot guarantee that someone will always have access to their meds, nor proper storage for meds.

:goodpost:

Exactly!!
 

kubota99

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dapaterson said:
The question is not the specific condition, but rather the requirement for regular medication.  The military cannot guarantee that someone will always have access to their meds, nor proper storage for meds.

That is totally understandable! But ADD isn't like cancer...

Cancer, you don't have 5 options, it's just the single truth: you have it....

ADD, it depends on many different factors, and meds are usually totally unnecessary to normally function, well in my case...

Lets say my parents hadn't decided to get me checked out when I was younger, what if my parents hadn't got me on those meds, what if, what if, what if... In my honest opinion, as soon as you ask yourself what if in a medical situation, and that it doesn't have anything to do to something like a broken bone (what if I hadn't jumped off the third floor type of stuff), it shouldn't restrict and add so much time to one's application...

The only thing that is most probably make me get the letter saying that I'm unfit for the Forces, is that stupid sentence I said: "Oh I forgot to mention about this ADD stuff my parents got me diagnosed 5 years ago" If I hadn't said anything, he would of checked the "fit for service" box in his papers... ADD stroke once more...
 

ModlrMike

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kubota99 said:
That is totally understandable! But ADD isn't like cancer...

Cancer, you don't have 5 options, it's just the single truth: you have it....

Every case is judged individually. Even cases where two applicants have the same condition are viewed in isolation of each other, and can have different outcomes.

kubota99 said:
ADD, it depends on many different factors, and meds are usually totally unnecessary to normally function, well in my case...

Lets say my parents hadn't decided to get me checked out when I was younger, what if my parents hadn't got me on those meds, what if, what if, what if... In my honest opinion, as soon as you ask yourself what if in a medical situation, and that it doesn't have anything to do to something like a broken bone (what if I hadn't jumped off the third floor type of stuff), it shouldn't restrict and add so much time to one's application...

The only thing that is most probably make me get the letter saying that I'm unfit for the Forces, is that stupid sentence I said: "Oh I forgot to mention about this ADD stuff my parents got me diagnosed 5 years ago" If I hadn't said anything, he would of checked the "fit for service" box in his papers... ADD stroke once more...

So you're saying you would rather start your career having withheld vital information? A lie of omission is a lie just the same. Not the best foundation to begin with.
 

kubota99

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medicineman said:
BTW -  It's nice that you want to advocate for your peeps, but the CF isn't here to cater to every special interest group there is out there - as our sand box is small, we're a little particular about who gets to play in it.

MM

I don't understand how one can say that... The CF makes you sign a paper, saying you will never discriminate anyone for any reason what so ever, and here you are saying that the CF discriminate the ones who aren't "fit" at their eyes to play in the sandbox...

Let's look at it this way, let's say you have blue eyes, and that blue eyes make you talk a lot, and seem distracted once in a while, but that in fact you aren't really... and the CF don't take blue eyed persons, well just because blue eyed people take medication juste TO BE NORMAL. Don't tell me that's not discriminatory! You don't NEED to take the meds, you won't die without them, you'll be yourself!

Anyways, I'm just so confused to why they don't take the time to see if yes in fact the ADHD is as bad as it sounds like. Some ADD's are as normal as non ADD's... They only talk a bit too much once in a while, and have sooooo many qualities non ADD's don't and will never have...

 

kubota99

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Quote 1: Oh trust me I know that.

Quote 2: I am not a liar, and never would I lie about myself. As a matter a fact, I did say the truth, and to be honest with you, if I wouldn't of wanted to say it, I still would have, I was raised in a way to not lie.


That being said, I still don't understand why ADHD is seen as such a bad thing...
 

Eye In The Sky

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::)  A tad bit late replying, or did you know the post you are getting your knickers in a knot about is from over 2.5 years ago?

Failing to meet entrance medical standards, for MILITARY service, is not discrimination.  The CF isn't Walmart. 

 

George Wallace

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kubota99 said:
I don't understand how one can say that... The CF makes you sign a paper, saying you will never discriminate anyone for any reason what so ever, and here you are saying that the CF discriminate the ones who aren't "fit" at their eyes to play in the sandbox...

Let's look at it this way, let's say you have blue eyes, and that blue eyes make you talk a lot, and seem distracted once in a while, but that in fact you aren't really... and the CF don't take blue eyed persons, well just because blue eyed people take medication juste TO BE NORMAL. Don't tell me that's not discriminatory! You don't NEED to take the meds, you won't die without them, you'll be yourself!

Anyways, I'm just so confused to why they don't take the time to see if yes in fact the ADHD is as bad as it sounds like. Some ADD's are as normal as non ADD's... They only talk a bit too much once in a while, and have sooooo many qualities non ADD's don't and will never have...

Would you want to apply your same logic to a person who has Epileptic seizures and wants to be a pilot?

 

kubota99

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It just sucks really bad that this happens... Especially to people who have dreams and all...

Buuut, that being said, an epileptic seizure isn't the same thing as ADD... It's like comparing a new haircut (ADD) to actually loosing hair because of bolding (seizure)...

*deleted content, because well it was just useless*
 
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