Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]

[ltmaverick25]

You should fight this one hard.  As I mentioned my friend is going through the exact same thing.  He was V5 so he had to go get his eyes zapped by the surgeon.  My unit is going to swear him in on May 12th which is exactly 90 days after his surgery.  Based on this case, there should be absolutely no need for you to wait an additional 3 months, unless for some reason, your situation is unique from his. 

 

[Aerospaced_out]

As far as I know this is the exisiting policy:

Aircrew applicants who have had refractive surgery must meet the following requirements:
a. a minimum period of six months must have elapsed following refractive surgery.
b. they must have had at least two refractions performed post-surgery by an ophthalmologist/optometrist, at least 14 days apart, with less than 0.5 Diopters of refractive difference between the two measurements in the same eye;
c. have no history or evidence of unwanted symptoms or post-operative effects including but not confined to: decrease in best corrected visual acuity; raised
NOT CONTROLLED WHEN PRINTED
6/18
intra-ocular pressure; corneal haze; reduced contrast sensitivity; corneal ulcers; pain; blurred vision; glare or flare; halos around lights or objects; degraded night vision; and other visual aberrations.
d. have discontinued the use of all topical eye drops including steroids or anti-inflammatory agents but artificial tears may be used as needed;
e. meet all vision standards for the relevant military occupation; and
f. be free of any ocular pathology.

Reference: http://winnipeg.mil.ca/1CdnAirDivSurg/FltSurg/vision/CF%20RS%20Policy/CF%20RS%20Policy%20-%20Final.pdf (see attached for an e-copy)

 

[nickinguelph]

Excellent, thank you for the information!  At least now I understand the reasoning behind the answers I have been given.

I have been expecting to wait now until August BMOQ anyway, so no big loss.  Though, I am still going to contact the PA on Monday and discuss this further. 
Hmmm...I wonder if I could OT into AEC from LOG after BMOQ... but this is a question for a different thread!
Cheers!

 

[ltmaverick25]

Dont go that route, its way too much of a pain and you could be waiting years in a trade you dont want to be.  Just follow the process for AEC.

 

[ltmaverick25]

As far as I know this is the exisiting policy:

Reference: http://winnipeg.mil.ca/1CdnAirDivSurg/FltSurg/vision/CF%20RS%20Policy/CF%20RS%20Policy%20-%20Final.pdf (see attached for an e-copy)

The difference in this case must be the air crew status.  My friend is going INT O so its A5 for him.

 

[TimBit]

Reviving an old topic here, any idea what are the perspectives to work as a Maritime Fighter Controller onboard any vessel? As a former sailor I wouldn't mind some seatime if I were to go AEC. Is that an option reserved only to Weapons, or IFR, or what?

Currently, what are in fact the opportunities to go Weapons? Someone mentionned last year that things looked pretty good for weapons right not, is it still the case?

Cheers!
:st.patty: (Couldn't resist using it...)

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Most candidates are getting their choice of streams.
MFCs are all Wpns backgrounded. It is not a first tour posting.

 

[Buddha66]

TimBit:  MFC requires a weapons background and is at a minimum a second tour gig.  As an MFC, you are not only a controller on the boat but the Fleet Commander's senior advisor on all things air other than Sea Kings. 

 

[Corey Darling]

Great Post.

I've got a quick question, what kind of work does an AEC do for this? I'm assuming WPNS = Weapons.

2. WPNS  - first 51 Sqn OTU at North Bay then:

    * North Bay with 21 Sqn
      42 Rdr Cold Lake
      12 er Bagotville
      AWACS Tinker OK
      Air Defence Sectors in McCord, WA or Rome, NY

Thank you

Edit: Been reading some more: So the weapons controllers work on AWACS?

Edit2: found it http://www.forces.ca/interactive/controller/splash.html

 

[Bigg_H]

Hey, I have a question: what is the job transferability of AEC Weapons to the civilian world? For eg, IFR and VFR seem pretty straight forward. I am just curious as I think I would like weapons as it is something different. Would I need to retrain if I eventually wanted IFR or VFR either as a civilian or AEC?

Thanks!

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Hey, I have a question: what is the job transferability of AEC Weapons to the civilian world? For eg, IFR and VFR seem pretty straight forward. I am just curious as I think I would like weapons as it is something different. Would I need to retrain if I eventually wanted IFR or VFR either as a civilian or AEC?

Thanks!

There is no civialian equivalent to Air Weapons Control. So, yes you would need to retrain. Mind you many ATC personnel that leave for NAVCAN find they require additional training as well. There is just enough difference between military ATC and Civil ATC that some additional training or extensive OJT will be required. Given this I'd recommend picking the discipline that suits your sensibilities more than what job you might want to do later on in your life.

 

[N_Dussault]

Hey, I have a question: what is the job transferability of AEC Weapons to the civilian world? For eg, IFR and VFR seem pretty straight forward. I am just curious as I think I would like weapons as it is something different. Would I need to retrain if I eventually wanted IFR or VFR either as a civilian or AEC?

Thanks!

Hey Bigg_H,

I work at Nav Canada - Moncton Center.  Today I had a chance to speak with a former military controller who transferred over to civilian ATC about 10 years ago.  When he transferred, there was no requirement for additional training, except for mandatory regional training (local airspace and procedures, equipment, etc.).  However, now Nav Canada does require additional training. 

The training has been restructured since I started.  When I went through Basic IFR in Cornwall, we used fictitious airspace and concentrated on the basics (obviously).  Then upon being posted at a unit, we would do the regional training and learn some finer aspects and local procedures.  There is no longer a need to train in Cornwall at the Nav Canada Training Institute (NCTI) for the Basic IFR portion, so you would do your basic in the regional center that you have requested. 

I'm not certain if you know about the Nav Canada IFR centers, but there are seven across the country:  Gander, Moncton, Montreal (Bilingual Req), Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Vancouver.  Technically, NAVCAN can place you anywhere that their operational requirements warrant once you are qualified, but I haven't seen them do this since I've been there (circa 2003).  The trainees come out of the course, go on the floor for OJT, qualify - then if they want to go to another unit, they can apply for positions via seniority bids.  Of course, then you will do regional training at your new unit all over again.  Since every center has it's own complexities, you will definitely be subject to some training.

As far as VFR goes, I'm really not certain.  To be honest, I'm not even sure if the VFR course is still done in Cornwall or if it has become a regional course as well.

If you'd like some more information, you can PM me with an email addy and I can get somebody in our training department to contact you.  Even if you're not interested in Moncton center per se, they'll be able to answer most of your questions better than I can.

ND

 

[Aerospaced_out]

To be honest, I'm not even sure if the VFR course is still done in Cornwall or if it has become a regional course as well.

NAVCAN is still conducting VFR training at NCTI; however, this is too is being regionalised once they have finalised the aquisition of new simulators. The operational training staff (GTs) have already received their "lay-off" notices. The military still conducts all its VFR and IFR training at NCTI. While CFSACO, no longer has any support links with NAVCAN, the facility still makes for a rather fine place to conduct training.

BTW... say hi to Kevin Vaughn

 

[N_Dussault]

BTW... say hi to Kevin Vaughn

Will do.  Work with him all the time.  ;D

 

[Bigg_H]

How much retraining? Obviously not from scratch? Would you happen to have a 'guess'timate? I would assume that a CF IFR would not needs as much retraining as a CF Wpns.

 

[N_Dussault]

Hey Bigg_H,

I can't recall offhand how much retraining there is, but I'll be back into work tomorrow and I'll check for you.  Off the top of my head, it might be 14 months classroom/simulator then OJT for 6-12 months.  If I'm not mistaken the OJT pay is around $33k/year, while classroom/simulator training is unpaid and requires a tuition of around $3500 (I think, it was free when I went through  ;D).

Some decent info on the Nav Canada site as well: http://takecharge.navcanada.ca/index.php

Let me find more info for you tomorrow and I'll send you an email.

ND

 

[Bigg_H]

Thanks Dussault. I called Nav Canada and asked them. Pretty much starting from scratch. I would have an advantage over another applicant without the CF training. I am actually heavily reconsidering going the CF route now... When I spoke to a recruiter I was told the training was the same, and so I assumed (key phrase being "I assumed") that going from one to another would be easy... I am glad I found this info before I signed...

 

[Aerospaced_out]

You were told by a recruiter that the training for civil and military ATC was the same? Obviously a  statement borne of ignorance given the simple reality that the only thing the same is the the MANOPS we uses as a common bible. Saying the training is the same is like saying Judaism and Christianity are the same because they both have a foundation in the Old Testament.

 

[N_Dussault]

Bigg_H means the training is the same in respect to a new hire off the street and a new hire with military ATC experience.  Both new hires receive the same training from Nav Canada.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Both new hires receive the same training from Nav Canada.

Well, if you are declaring that to be the case, then likely you are also misinformed. Typically NAVCAN trainees off the street, at least within Montreal FIR, must take both Basic and Generic training. On the other hand most experienced military ATC just challenge the Generic exam (includes two simulations). Military pers that pass, as most do, bypass all this training and go straight to a regional qualification, thus saving months.