OK but what were the circumstances of those deaths? People do sometimes die in Emerg by the very nature of what brought them there...
Alberta government thread
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OldSolduer
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If that's the case we should have had a few states of emergency WRT health care.
How so? Ambulances bring people with acute medical emergencies to the emergency department. Those people don’t always survive what let to the ambulance call.
I’m only saying that “two other deaths that day” devoid of context tells us nothing. What were the deaths? Were they exacerbated by lack of available care? Was it a matter of someone was simply pronounced on reaching a physician after ambulance had been doing a half hour of CPR? Were the deaths reasonably avoidable if care and resources were available within the general standards we see in Canadian emergency rooms?
I can’t call it one way or that other is all.
So a few points with this...
- I can almost guarantee there were more than 3 deaths at the Grey Nuns hospital last month.
People die in hospitals all the time. Literally all the time. Not because they aren't getting the care they deserve, but because hospitals are quite often where our senior citizens go to die.
...
About 2 months ago, a lady I live with (who was 89yo at the time, is 90yo now) had a stroke.
If the home health nurse had come later in the morning (they generally have a 2 hour window) than my elderly house-mate probably would have died in hospital.
She's back here at home now, but she spent 6 weeks in hospital (maybe 7 weeks?) and we honestly weren't sure if she would live long enough to make it out.
Her care while in hospital was great. Sure she didn't eat the food really, nor did she cooperate with hospital staff. (She's a terrible patient & a pain in the ass for staff!)
But her care was more than adequate. And she still easily could have died while in hospital.
...
- Like Brihard said, without context it's hard to say one way or another.
Did EMS crews bring in a patient who was declared dead by a physician upon arrival?
Did EMS crews bring in a patient who had terminal injuries, or a terminal condition, and the person simply died from that?
....
Not to ruin anybody's day here, but the number of kids that die each week at the Stollery Children's Hospital would surprize a lot of people. (I imagine the same can be said for the Children's Hospital in Calgary)
My ex is a Child Life Specialist at the Stollery.
So her job is to help coordinate all of their appointments, be with them during those appointments to help them be less traumatic for the child (some of the treatments are quite painful, for anybody) and in general kind of run a 24/7 daycare for kids with a severe or terminal diagnosis.
I know one incident that still really haunts her, and its been a few years now. She was sitting with one of her kids, and he wanted some Skittles - so she went to their office (where they stash all of the candy) to get him some.
When she came back with that bag of Skittles, the little boy had passed away.
...
My overall point is simply that people die in hospitals ALL the time.
So maybe 3 people died at Grey Nuns last month. But is that substantially more than usual? Maybe it's less than usual? And did they all die due to neglect? Etc etc
Altair
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Yes, so as I said, what were the circumstances and contexts of those two other deaths?
People die in hospitals. People are brought to hospital who aren’t dead yet, but will be shortly. Sometimes they think they feel better and then abruptly something takes them out.
Sometimes people should have gone into hospital a long while ago and stubbornly didn’t- ask any ER doctor about “I wasn’t gonna come in. It my wife insisted”.
A fact is being thrown at us here with no surrounding facts to lend context. It appears intended to shape thinking and responses towards a particular belief or conclusion but it doesn’t enable the reader to do their own reasoning on the way there.
Altair
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No idea. Maybe 3 deaths in a single day at a single hospital is a outlier. Maybe it's the sign of a impending healthcare collapse.
Mr park, quoted in the linked article in the tweet says the system is in bad shape. Maybe we should believe him.
Sure. But give context to allow information to be assessed for evidentiary value. I’m all for listening to experts in positions of authority. I believe him when he says the system is in bad shape. I’m just not going to accept the citing of two other deaths that day as evidence of it without further info to determine the relevance.
Altair
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Some context is given.
Doctors claim they don't have room for patients.
Mr Park says every day they are running on disaster mode.
They then point to 3 deaths on the 22nd of December in the same hospital, which may or may not have something to do with the two former points.
I think that the 3 deaths on the same day is the least important part of the story. Even if those people, may they rest in peace, survived, it would still be of vital importance that the system has no more capacity and doctors and nurses are running around at an unsustainable tempo trying to keep the system from collapsing long entirely.
But it does draw more attention when people die than when people don't. When out on exercise I remember more than once my section pulling off the mission understaffed, breaking rules, and when bringing this up to the higher ups was told that as long as the mission was accomplished all was well. It took us failing for attention to be paid.
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