All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[MilEME09]

The Federal, Three provincial governments tried to kill the pipeline. What happened was a industry said ok then we will shut things down and sit and wait until a more friendly group gets into power. Then the Natives made complaints that they lost hundreds of millions in contracts.
It took about 3 months for the Alberta Government of the time to change face and magically support the pipeline.

As for the support of other Oilfield projects, the government is not completely out to left field. They know if they invest a billion responsibly they will get billions out of the project in taxes and payments.
When they collapse projects and then "finance" the same project to the tune of 10 times the cost, the only people making money are the ones taking the kickbacks.
Putting the squeeze on industrial projects by adding fees and levies is one way the government makes lots of money. They know the industry is required, the product they produce is required. They know they can get a infinite amount of money through various means. Often after imposing loose rules and then tightening them to the point of collapse. Then they back off and save the day and look like the good guys. There is a term for that is other situations.

And what rules did they loosen then tighten? And how did that effect the projects mentioned in this article? What government rules caused projects to collapse? Because last I checked a large volume of projects were canned because of market price collapses which has little to do with the feds. Especially in the LNG world, ditto with TMX, half way done and the company pulled pin because they didn't see the value any more. Fast forward to today and that pipeline is barely at 50% capacity. Guess Enbridge saw that coming?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

And what rules did they loosen then tighten? And how did that effect the projects mentioned in this article? What government rules caused projects to collapse? Because last I checked a large volume of projects were canned because of market price collapses which has little to do with the feds. Especially in the LNG world, ditto with TMX, half way done and the company pulled pin because they didn't see the value any more. Fast forward to today and that pipeline is barely at 50% capacity. Guess Enbridge saw that coming?

Sigh. So much misinformation.

Are you Stephen Guilbault?

The TMX is 77% capacity and should be at 84% next year.

Enbridge does not own TMX, the federal government does.

The reason the feds were forced to buy it from Kinder Morgan is because they and the BC government basically sabotaged every pipeline project from 2016-2018 with regulatory changes, such that no project made sense financially after they were done. Even the Alberta NDP eventually called out both BC and the Federal Liberals.

 

[childs56]

And what rules did they loosen then tighten? And how did that effect the projects mentioned in this article? What government rules caused projects to collapse? Because last I checked a large volume of projects were canned because of market price collapses which has little to do with the feds. Especially in the LNG world, ditto with TMX, half way done and the company pulled pin because they didn't see the value any more. Fast forward to today and that pipeline is barely at 50% capacity. Guess Enbridge saw that coming?

I often wonder how different the news is across the country. I know many news agencies run extremely biased articles on the norm. Often opinions are passed off as facts.
I know my family and friends back east often ask me what is being reported out west as things do not make sense.

 

[MilEME09]

Sigh. So much misinformation.

Are you Stephen Guilbault?

The TMX is 77% capacity and should be at 84% next year.

Enbridge does not own TMX, the federal government does.

The reason the feds were forced to buy it from Kinder Morgan is because they and the BC government basically sabotaged every pipeline project from 2016-2018 with regulatory changes, such that no project made sense financially after they were done. Even the Alberta NDP eventually called out both BC and the Federal Liberals.

I am aware the federal government does, i was referring to the reason why construction was abandoned forcing the federal government to step in. I had the wrong company, my bad. Now granted the federal government apparently has a high transit fee which is why some companies aren't using it as much, but they also need a high fee to recoup the 10 billion they sunk into the project.

 

[PuckChaser]

Which they wouldn't have needed to do if they didn't message politically and legislatively make the project untenable for a private company to complete it.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Which they wouldn't have needed to do if they didn't message politically and legislatively make the project untenable for a private company to complete it.

Exactly.

I find it shocking that Liberals today have completely memory-holed how they proudly shutdown virtually every resource project in the 2106-2019 period by either legislative changes or by the PM/various cabinet ministers loudly demonizing the Oil & Gas industry. Which is disproportionately based in BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Interestingly, offshore oil and gas in both Newfoundland and NS were largely left alone.

The Liberal Government was forced to buy TMX from Kinder Morgan when it finally occurred to them that they had actually created a unity crisis. Rachel Notley (and probsbly some first nations leadership?) probably gets credit for finally making the Feds see light on that. It wasn’t an act of charity that people today like to make it out to be. They made a mess that was so bad, they had no choice but to attempt some sort of clean up.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I often wonder how different the news is across the country. I know many news agencies run extremely biased articles on the norm. Often opinions are passed off as facts.
I know my family and friends back east often ask me what is being reported out west as things do not make sense.

Guilbeault hasn't taken over the internet yet. You can still point to the hypocrisy of CBC, CTV and Global without being arrested.

 

[childs56]

I am aware the federal government does, i was referring to the reason why construction was abandoned forcing the federal government to step in. I had the wrong company, my bad.

Now granted the federal government apparently has a high transit fee which is why some companies aren't using it as much, but they also need a high fee to recoup the 10 billion they sunk into the project.

36-40 billion of tax payer money sunk into the project.
High transit fees has a little effect.
Tanker traffic bans, concerns. Who wants to sign a deal to ship oil only to have the government ban the ships they need to transport their product.
Limits of production on oil. It takes a couple of years to double if not triple production due to work overs needing to be done on wells, drilling new wells, along with upgrades needed to Upgraders (refineries) plus the smaller feeder lines and storage facilities'
Tie that in with governments putting various restraints on emissions and added costs it makes it difficult to increase production.
Add any new government regulations/ words spoken causing uncertainty to markets having a long term secure access to our product and it makes buyers hesitant to sign long term contracts.
There is some reluctance of the oil producers to ship oil in a government owned pipeline which was previously privately owned. (Western Canadian Producers do not want the big E to be part of any pipeline out west). Which they have tried to get their foot in the door.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

One of the challenges of TMX is the location of the Terminal. It limits the size of ships that can use it and requires significant tug assist to get through the narrows. However, extending the pipeline out to someplace like Roberts Bank, then puts the pipeline into an area of high seismic risk and high political cost.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The political landscape in BC is changing, not that the Lowermainland will notice.....

Much work lies ahead—but Canada’s energy landscape is being reshaped, step by step, by a commitment to the cause of economic reconciliation.

Organizations like Enbridge and the Stonlasec8 Alliance Limited Partnership are paving the way, today unveiling a monumental agreement that will see the partnership, which represents 36 First Nations in B.C., make a C$715-million investment in Enbridge’s Westcoast natural gas pipeline system. The Stonlasec8 Alliance Limited Partnership gains a 12.5% interest.

Enbridge’s Westcoast system is an essential piece of energy infrastructure capable of transporting up to 3.6 billion cubic feet of natural gas per day. Owned by Westcoast Energy Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Enbridge, the system stretches more than 2,900 km from Fort Nelson in northeast B.C., and from Gordondale near the B.C.-Alberta border, south to the Canada-U.S. border at Huntingdon/Sumas. The natural gas transported provides safe, secure and affordable energy that people rely on throughout B.C. and the Lower Mainland, Alberta and the U.S. Pacific Northwest.

According to a news release issued today, the Stonlasec8 Alliance Limited Partnership reached an agreement with Canada Indigenous Loan Guarantee Corporation (CILGC), a subsidiary of Canada Development Investment Corporation (CDEV), to secure a C$400-million loan guarantee to enable the transaction. Loan guarantees play an important role in advancing Indigenous involvement in essential energy infrastructure.

First Nations make historic investment in Enbridge’s BC natural gas pipeline system

‘People often ask what economic reconciliation for Indigenous Peoples looks like. This is it’

www.enbridge.com

 

[OldSolduer]

One of the challenges is IMO is to see what offshore accounts some of our "leaders" have and how much is in them.

 

[Kirkhill]

“America” doesn’t offer prices; purchasing companies do. Those companies need to offer enough that supply meets their demand, or else they won’t have the oil they need to refine to meet their own customers’ demands for gasoline and other distillates. Particularly since TMX opened, producers have increased ability to ship west to tidewater and sell to other Pacific markets. Producers no longer need to offer as steep a discount compared to WTI, hence the narrowed WCS/WTI price spread.

Those other markets include west coast refineries in the US, including California.

Over 55% of Canadian Oil Exports From Trans Mountain Have Diverted Through California to Save Money - Canadian Energy News, Top Headlines, Commentaries, Features & Events - EnergyNow

More than 55 per cent oil from the expanded pipeline first journeyed south to California, where it's transfered onto crude carriers Bloomberg News Canada’s newest oil pipeline has turbo-charged exports of the country’s heavy crude to Asia and a diversion through California is making for a longer...

energynow.ca

 

[Kirkhill]

The Federal, Three provincial governments tried to kill the pipeline. What happened was a industry said ok then we will shut things down and sit and wait until a more friendly group gets into power. Then the Natives made complaints that they lost hundreds of millions in contracts.
It took about 3 months for the Alberta Government of the time to change face and magically support the pipeline.

As for the support of other Oilfield projects, the government is not completely out to left field. They know if they invest a billion responsibly they will get billions out of the project in taxes and payments.
When they collapse projects and then "finance" the same project to the tune of 10 times the cost, the only people making money are the ones taking the kickbacks.
Putting the squeeze on industrial projects by adding fees and levies is one way the government makes lots of money. They know the industry is required, the product they produce is required. They know they can get a infinite amount of money through various means. Often after imposing loose rules and then tightening them to the point of collapse. Then they back off and save the day and look like the good guys. There is a term for that is other situations.

The government has a monopoly on regulation. And it exploits that.

 

[childs56]

One of the challenges is IMO is to see what offshore accounts some of our "leaders" have and how much is in them.

Also who owns the rail car manufacters.
Who owns or has large shares in tankers that ship to the east coast from ME.
It is interesting when the money is followed.

 

[Kirkhill]

The political landscape in BC is changing, not that the Lowermainland will notice.....

Much work lies ahead—but Canada’s energy landscape is being reshaped, step by step, by a commitment to the cause of economic reconciliation.

Organizations like Enbridge and the Stonlasec8 Alliance Limited Partnership are paving the way, today unveiling a monumental agreement that will see the partnership, which represents 36 First Nations in B.C., make a C$715-million investment in Enbridge’s Westcoast natural gas pipeline system. The Stonlasec8 Alliance Limited Partnership gains a 12.5% interest.

Enbridge’s Westcoast system is an essential piece of energy infrastructure capable of transporting up to 3.6 billion cubic feet of natural gas per day. Owned by Westcoast Energy Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Enbridge, the system stretches more than 2,900 km from Fort Nelson in northeast B.C., and from Gordondale near the B.C.-Alberta border, south to the Canada-U.S. border at Huntingdon/Sumas. The natural gas transported provides safe, secure and affordable energy that people rely on throughout B.C. and the Lower Mainland, Alberta and the U.S. Pacific Northwest.

According to a news release issued today, the Stonlasec8 Alliance Limited Partnership reached an agreement with Canada Indigenous Loan Guarantee Corporation (CILGC), a subsidiary of Canada Development Investment Corporation (CDEV), to secure a C$400-million loan guarantee to enable the transaction. Loan guarantees play an important role in advancing Indigenous involvement in essential energy infrastructure.

First Nations make historic investment in Enbridge’s BC natural gas pipeline system

‘People often ask what economic reconciliation for Indigenous Peoples looks like. This is it’

www.enbridge.com

I congratulate the First Nations. They are about 4% of the population. They secured the support of about half of the rest of the population to secure seats at the table on environmental grounds. Having secured those seats they are now shifting to economic opportunities, abandoning some of that radical left wing green support and swapping it for commercial right wing financial support.

I am an optimist.

 

[brihard]

Those other markets include west coast refineries in the US, including California.

Over 55% of Canadian Oil Exports From Trans Mountain Have Diverted Through California to Save Money - Canadian Energy News, Top Headlines, Commentaries, Features & Events - EnergyNow

More than 55 per cent oil from the expanded pipeline first journeyed south to California, where it's transfered onto crude carriers Bloomberg News Canada’s newest oil pipeline has turbo-charged exports of the country’s heavy crude to Asia and a diversion through California is making for a longer...

energynow.ca

Sure- like I said, other pacific markets. And each purchaser is in competition with the others to buy that oil. Even if there are multiple potential purchasers in the states, each will make its own rational decisions about how and from whom to purchase oil and what to offer. Having multiple potential purchasers, some of them opened up by new or expanded pipelines, means it’s harder for one to leverage their market power to distort prices to the disadvantage of the seller. Everything I said in the reply you quoted stands.

 

[MilEME09]

Also who owns the rail car manufacters.
Who owns or has large shares in tankers that ship to the east coast from ME.
It is interesting when the money is followed.

Indeed like when the Canadian wheat board got sold to the Saudis, i remember years later when grain prices collapsed and the feds had to mandate to the rail companies X number of cars had to be grain because they refused to transport it because it wasn't cost effective at the time.

 

[Kirkhill]

Sure- like I said, other pacific markets. And each purchaser is in competition with the others to buy that oil. Even if there are multiple potential purchasers in the states, each will make its own rational decisions about how and from whom to purchase oil and what to offer. Having multiple potential purchasers, some of them opened up by new or expanded pipelines, means it’s harder for one to leverage their market power to distort prices to the disadvantage of the seller. Everything I said in the reply you quoted stands.

Stipulated. I merely suggest that most people, when they hear Pacific think Asia when talking trade.

Those California refineries could be getting their oil overland through pipelines but buying half-full tankers* from Vancouver seems to be at least cost-competitive. That suggests that the product has value and that pipeline capacity is constrained.

* As @Colin Parkinson noted draught limitations prevent fully loading the tankers. Vancouver and Eby are discussing dredging the channel deeper.

B.C., federal government support dredging Vancouver's Burrard Inlet, others opposed

British Columbia's energy minister is backing plans to dredge and deepen Vancouver's Burrard Inlet to accommodate fully loaded oil tankers, despite concerns from environmentalists, experts and First Nations.

ca.news.yahoo.com

 

[childs56]

Sure- like I said, other pacific markets. And each purchaser is in competition with the others to buy that oil. Even if there are multiple potential purchasers in the states, each will make its own rational decisions about how and from whom to purchase oil and what to offer. Having multiple potential purchasers, some of them opened up by new or expanded pipelines, means it’s harder for one to leverage their market power to distort prices to the disadvantage of the seller. Everything I said in the reply you quoted stands.

China had offered to buy the oil in the second pipeline, but made strict stipulations at the time. As they had to have the line operational for 2016. No delays, no nonsense. They had bought interest in many of the northern oil projects but did not have a way to ship the oil.
when delay after delay happened they backed away from the projects.
Understand refineries have to be set up and built to accept Bitumen, currently (sort of) the Southern US refineries are the only major ones outside of Canada set up to mass produce it.
The demand for our Northern Oil goes beyond fuel and into manufacturing. Which China is a top producer.

Stipulated. I merely suggest that most people, when they hear Pacific think Asia when talking trade.

That is usually who we are selling to or buying from. Lets hope Japan and South Korea become larger trade partners in oil and gas in the near future.
Maybe the Federal Government can leverage some oil sales/shares to pay for some new Tanks and Artillery

Those California refineries could be getting their oil overland through pipelines but buying half-full tankers* from Vancouver seems to be at least cost-competitive. That suggests that the product has value and that pipeline capacity is constrained.

Considering the East coast Refineries and Gulf Coast refineries get a large portion of their product via tanker from the ME i would have to think it is cost effective. More on the East Coast of Canada I wonder who has large investments in those tankers?

* As @Colin Parkinson noted draught limitations prevent fully loading the tankers. Vancouver and Eby are discussing dredging the channel deeper.

B.C., federal government support dredging Vancouver's Burrard Inlet, others opposed

British Columbia's energy minister is backing plans to dredge and deepen Vancouver's Burrard Inlet to accommodate fully loaded oil tankers, despite concerns from environmentalists, experts and First Nations.

ca.news.yahoo.com

They were running into problems a while ago with the port having to be dredged but the environmentalists got in the way. This limited some container ships also.