All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[brihard]

If the federal government acted fairly and equitably with the provinces, you wouldn’t have issues of separation. The whole fault lies with the sitting federal party. Not with the provinces or the people that are charged with well being of their constituents. When people are pushed to the wall, are tired of being taken advantage of, while being unfairly blamed by Ottawa for woes of Ottawa's making, when Ottawa ignores their pleas to sit and negotiate, in good faith, they start to feel the only way forward is the nuclear option.

I'm not ready to blame provinces or their gatekeepers for what is essentially a planned coup of the feds to destroy the livelihoods and resources of any province.

Instead of slagging people as being separatists, how about questioning the root cause of the angst and putting it where it belongs. On carney and his caucus of anti development, anti resource, my way or the highway, net zero gang of minor overlords.

I’ve never seen you this solicitous to the Bloc Québécois before. I’ll give you credit where it’s due for that.

While you're asking, question carney's total lack of concern. Ask why he is ignoring this completely while jetting around the world gladhanding his cronies and business contacts. Oh, and let's watch and see if he ignores all of these trade and separation issues, amongst others, and sends everyone on vacation. After all, what could possibly be more important than time off for a group that hasn't sat the House since September.

Why would we ask that when it’s made up? He swore in his cabinet and then immediately sent Tim Hodgson (the former Goldman Sachs Canada CEO) as the minister of energy and natural resources to Saskatchewan and Alberta to engage with both premiers as well as energy sector executives. Provincial leaders have responded favourably with very cautious optimism. That’s a tone we’ve not heard in that particular relationship for a while. Separately he’s pushing hard to knock down internal trade barriers. Doesn’t sound like ‘ignoring the problem’ or ‘sending everyone on vacation’. Not sure what coloured glasses you’re wearing to look at Carney’s first couple months and see a “total lack of concern”.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I’ve never seen you this solicitous to the Bloc Québécois before. I’ll give you credit where it’s due for that.

More a condemnation of the divisive, overreaching federal zealotry, than a separatist alliance with the provinces. One can sit firmly in the first camp without giving allegiance to the second. Recognising why the provinces feel separation is a last resort, is not akin to agreement.

 

[brihard]

More a condemnation of the divisive, overreaching federal zealotry, than a separatist alliance with the provinces. One can sit firmly in the first camp without giving allegiance to the second. Recognising why the provinces feel separation is a last resort, is not akin to agreement.

Sure, absolutely. But the rest of Canada will also be looking to see what the CPC actually say about Alberta separatism. Acknowledging, validating, and pledging to address grievances is reasonable and at least to some extent necessary. That doesn’t mean they need to condone separatism, or try to awkwardly ignore it. If Poilievre is asked directly about his thoughts on Alberta separatism and he doesn’t express explicit disagreement on separation, that’s a choice that will cost him elsewhere.

Unlike the Bloc Québécois, the CPC actually want to lead Canada. A lot of Canadians will want to see them explicitly affirm their rejection of separatism (anywhere), and a commitment to Canada staying intact. Leaving that at all ambiguous or wishy-washy to pander to separatists will hurt them the same way the awkward ignoring of Trump did.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Sure, absolutely. But the rest of Canada will also be looking to see what the CPC actually say about Alberta separatism. Acknowledging, validating, and pledging to address grievances is reasonable and at least to some extent necessary. That doesn’t mean they need to condone separatism, or try to awkwardly ignore it. If Poilievre is asked directly about his thoughts on Alberta separatism and he doesn’t express explicit disagreement on separation, that’s a choice that will cost him elsewhere.

Unlike the Bloc Québécois, the CPC actually want to lead Canada. A lot of Canadians will want to see them explicitly affirm their rejection of separatism (anywhere), and a commitment to Canada staying intact. Leaving that at all ambiguous or wishy-washy to pander to separatists will hurt them the same way the awkward ignoring of Trump did.

Wasn't a point of my discussion. I'll wait and see what the CPC response is before I spend time on what they might do or how Canadians might guage their response. I will acknowledge that there are those that actually think this through, look at the real reasons for unrest and attempt to figure a solution and those that simply believe and parrot the state propaganda media about the CPC baba yaga.

 

[MilEME09]

More a condemnation of the divisive, overreaching federal zealotry, than a separatist alliance with the provinces. One can sit firmly in the first camp without giving allegiance to the second. Recognising why the provinces feel separation is a last resort, is not akin to agreement.

But will you condemn provincial over reach into federal issues?

 

[brihard]

Wasn't a point of my discussion. I'll wait and see what the CPC response is before I spend time on what they might do or how Canadians might guage their response. I will acknowledge that there are those that actually think this through, look at the real reasons for unrest and attempt to figure a solution and those that simply believe and parrot the state propaganda media about the CPC baba yaga.

No, but it’s the discussion we were having that you joined. And it’s not going off guesswork or hypothetical; it was from reporting (by CTV, not CBC) that Andrew Scheer, the Leader of the Opposition in the House, spoke in separatism without explicitly speaking against it. That may have been posted before you joined in. So the leader of the opposition who actually sits in Parliament has staked out a position and it’s a concerning one. It’s somewhat compounded by his US citizenship and the overlap between Alberta secessionists and the 51st state types.

It’s an inauspicious start for Scheer in his role and it doesn’t do any favours in terms of prepping the ground for Poilievre once he wins a new seat.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

But will you condemn provincial over reach into federal issues?

Sure. Which province is attempting to create it’s own armed forces?

 

[PrairieFella]

Support for joining the US among Albertans is considerably lower than support for separation. Not sure many of them are looking to be a blatant resource vassal state.

Bold of you to think they'd let the Albertans be a state and vote lol

 

[brihard]

Bold of you to think they'd let the Albertans be a state and vote lol

I didn’t mean state as in ‘statehood’.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Anyone hinging their argument on Scheer's US citizenship is already up against the wall and hoping for a Hail Mary. He has proven throughout his political career that that citizenship hasn’t swayed any decision he's made.

Of course, someone equally without a salient point, might decide to wonder aloud about all carney's passports and those in his party holding more than one.

For future reference, when I speak of CBC propaganda, I include CTV and Global. They may not receive $1.5 billion of taxpayer largesse, like Mother Corp, but they do receive and are not adverse to falling in line with the government messaging. All media receiving government money is already behind the believability 8 ball.

edited

 

[Remius]

Anyone hinging their argument on Scheer's US citizenship is already up against the wall and hoping for a Hail Mary. He has proven throughout his political career that that citizenship hasn’t swayed any decision he's made.

Of course, someone equally without a salient point, might decide to wonder aloud about all carney's passports and those in his party holding more than one.

For future reference, when I speak of CBC propaganda, I include CTV and Global. They may not receive $1.5 billion of taxpayer largesse, like Mother Corp, but they do receive and are not adverse to falling in line with the government messaging. All media receiving government money is already behind the believability 8 ball.

edited

Scheer’s words are there and can be listened to in raw form. Regardless of what media he was on. Kapelos even sought his clarification in case it was misunderstood. Defaulting to “media bad” is akin to putting one’s head in the sand or fingers in your ears because one does not like what is being reported.

As leader of a national party that is seeking to form gvt, it is a problem.

I totally agree about his US citizenship being a non issue. My only issue with his US citizenship was his hypocrisy of going after other people in the same situation and getting caught for it.

 

[brihard]

Anyone hinging their argument on Scheer's US citizenship is already up against the wall and hoping for a Hail Mary. He has proven throughout his political career that that citizenship hasn’t swayed any decision he's made.

Of course, someone equally without a salient point, might decide to wonder aloud about all carney's passports and those in his party holding more than one.

For future reference, when I speak of CBC propaganda, I include CTV and Global. They may not receive $1.5 billion of taxpayer largesse, like Mother Corp, but they do receive and are not adverse to falling in line with the government messaging. All media receiving government money is already behind the believability 8 ball.

edited

Carney renounced his Irish and British citizenships. Scheer should have renounced his American one when he ran to lead our country. While he’s no longer running to be leader of the country, he is the opposition leader in the house and in the current political climate it remains a bit awkward, although I don’t have the same expectation of renunciation in his role that I would for someone running for PM. I don’t think anyone’s hanging their hats on his citizenship, though.

The far more salient point is that, faced with a question about Alberta separatism, he declined to speak against it. That was an unforced error and it gives Poilievre some headwinds that may stiffen as he faces a local electorate to win a seat in rural Alberta. The risk is not that Poilievre loses the riding, but that he slips up and says something that helps him (unnecessarily) locally and causes problems in the bigger picture when that time comes.

 

[MilEME09]

Sure. Which province is attempting to create it’s own armed forces?

There are many issues were provinces over step into federal domain, and try and dictate terms. AB and pipelines is a prime example, the feds can't speak for the other provinces. AB having sheriff's waste resources to try and take over policing the border, when that's federal domain is another

 

[daftandbarmy]

Latest poll by Nanos says 20% of Albertans happy to separate.. not insignificant

Nanos on the Numbers: Ballot support, Alberta separation

Pollster Nik Nanos discusses how Canadians are feeling about each federal party and what issues Albertans want the feds to focus on.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Latest poll by Nanos says 20% of Albertans happy to separate.. not insignificant

Nanos on the Numbers: Ballot support, Alberta separation

Pollster Nik Nanos discusses how Canadians are feeling about each federal party and what issues Albertans want the feds to focus on.

www.ctvnews.ca

I heard 30%

 

[brihard]

I heard 30%

That was probably the Leger poll a couple weeks back; it had 29% at wanting to separate, 17% in favour of joining the U.S.

Alberta Politics and Separatism Sentiments

Download the report to discover Albertans' views on their identity and separatism sentiments.

leger360.com

I don’t know how comparable the two polls are; could vary a lot depending on how questions were framed and I’m not digging into it. Either way, a not/insignificant degree of support is there, but not remotely close to what we would be needed, and this is also before any adults in the room make very clear what the consequences would be.

It could be interesting to periodically track this sentiment over the next year or two, we how it responds to any new direction from the feds.

 

[dapaterson]

Quebec 1980: 60/40

Quebec 1995: 51/49 (due to money and the ethnic vote)

1980 Quebec referendum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1995 Quebec referendum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Carney renounced his Irish and British citizenships. Scheer should have renounced his American one when he ran to lead our country. While he’s no longer running to be leader of the country, he is the opposition leader in the house and in the current political climate it remains a bit awkward, although I don’t have the same expectation of renunciation in his role that I would for someone running for PM. I don’t think anyone’s hanging their hats on his citizenship, though.

Did he though? I haven't been following. Carney has been lying through his teeth since he became a politician. Just because he said he did, doesn’t mean he did it. I didn’t think anyone could lie more than trudeau, but carney sure seems set on outdoing him.

Scheer's citizenship was brought into the thread and discussed. Someone thinks its important enough to do so.

A little dated with some changes since, but if someone wants to smear Scheer as being a US citizen, they should at least mention the rest. Dual, Triple Citizenship MP's Shaping Canada's Political Destiny

 

[Fishbone Jones]

That was probably the Leger poll a couple weeks back; it had 29% at wanting to separate, 17% in favour of joining the U.S.

Alberta Politics and Separatism Sentiments

Download the report to discover Albertans' views on their identity and separatism sentiments.

leger360.com

I don’t know how comparable the two polls are; could vary a lot depending on how questions were framed and I’m not digging into it. Either way, a not/insignificant degree of support is there, but not remotely close to what we would be needed, and this is also before any adults in the room make very clear what the consequences would be.

It could be interesting to periodically track this sentiment over the next year or two, we how it responds to any new direction from the feds.

More recent than that I think. We'll see when the referendum on it is official. Like you, I'm not overly invested in it right now. I need more, confirmed information. Polls don’t do anything for me.

 

[brihard]

More recent than that I think. We'll see when the referendum on it is official. Like you, I'm not overly invested in it right now. I need more, confirmed information. Polls don’t do anything for me.

Yeah, not sure what other polls have been done. After that first big one came in at under 30 percent my thinking was “Eh… Ok. The Wexit crew again.” They were a flash in the pan before, and I suspect they’re riding high right now in the wake of the Liberal win and with the ghost of Trudeau not yet pushed fully out of the way. I don’t think they’ll retain 30%.

My take on it is let them run their petitions, get their referendum, lose, and have that done and out of the way. Then the business of running the province and country can carry on, and the major businesses who have decisions to make can make them with more certainty. I’m not concerned there will be sufficient popular support to separate. I do see the significant enough sentiment as being indicative of some deep fractures that need to be healed.

From what Carney is saying, I don’t believe we’ll need to wait long to see what he intends to move forward on, though of course it will take some time for interest t to turn into legislation and regulation. That will also let people and businesses more readily make informed decisions.