All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[brihard]

how much of a lineup is there to build a $34B pipeline when WCS is $45

We shall see. Alberta seems to be signaling that as a province they will take a lead role; that could be enough to reassure industry.

 

[QV]

Maybe- but to play that card and be able to use the "in good faith" premise you need have atleast a plausible presentation of Asking -> Listening -> Evaluating > Deciding

Deciding -> Asking -> Pretending to Listen and Evaluate , doesn't cut it.

Hence MOU, hence actually engaging.

Pushing through unreasonableness has to wait for the unreasonableness to be presented and be shown immovable by other means

You're straw manning this by saying "pretend" to consult.

I am saying there are limits to what consultation is, and regardless of the outcome it doesn't stop the project.

Tell me, is the economic well being of Canada and it's provinces of particular urgent national interest given the current climate with our largest trading partner? "Team Canada"?

But PMMC already deep sixed this. He stated for the MOU to go ahead, BC and the FN must consent. PMMC added that stipulation when it's not constitutionally required. He gave the opponents the veto. BC and the FN have already stated they will not consent. The MOU is dead. Confederation is failing. This how not-insignificant separatist movements get momentum.

 

[Blackadder1916]

You're straw manning this by saying "pretend" to consult.

I am saying there are limits to what consultation is, and regardless of the outcome it doesn't stop the project.

Tell me, is the economic well being of Canada and it's provinces of particular urgent national interest given the current climate with our largest trading partner? "Team Canada"?

But PMMC already deep sixed this. He stated for the MOU to go ahead, BC and the FN must consent. PMMC added that stipulation when it's not constitutionally required. He gave the opponents the veto. BC and the FN have already stated they will not consent. The MOU is dead. Confederation is failing. This how not-insignificant separatist movements get momentum.

Your understanding of what "duty to consult" means and entails is far different from what is reality.

Government of Canada and the duty to consult

The Government of Canada has a duty to consult and, where appropriate, accommodate Indigenous groups when it considers conduct that might adversely impact potential or established Aboriginal or treaty rights. The duty stems from the Honour of the Crown and is derived from section 35 of Canada's...

www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca

Aboriginal Consultation and Accommodation - Updated Guidelines for Federal Officials to Fulfill the Duty to Consult - March 2011

In the Haida and Taku River decisions in 2004, and the Mikisew Cree decision in 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada held that the Crown has a duty to consult and, where appropriate, accommodate when the Crown contemplates conduct that might adversely impact potential or established Aboriginal or...

www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca

 

[QV]

Is it your position that duty to consult means that if all demands are not met to the satisfaction of the griever the griever can veto the matter?

 

[Blackadder1916]

No, my position is that your previous comment of ". . . there are limits to what consultation is, and regardless of the outcome it doesn't stop the project" indicates that you have no understanding of what 'duty to consult' entails.

 

[QV]

Can a project continue if the griever is still not satisfied after the Crown has met its duty to consult?

 

[PrairieFella]

Confederation is failing. This how not-insignificant separatist movements get momentum.

Sounds like youve already made up your mind and are working backwards from there.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I saw a tweet this weekend that had support for Alberta separation at around 28-30%.

That's higher than I am comfortable with. And I am comfortable with some amount of separatism, I think its natural not everyone is going to be happy.

 

[lenaitch]

Can a project continue if the griever is still not satisfied after the Crown has met its duty to consult?

If nothing else, the federal government has to contend with the United Nation Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act, which recognizes their 'free, prior and informed consent'. The scope of the government's obligations have not really been tested, but some people view it as an aboriginal veto.

 

[lenaitch]

I saw a tweet this weekend that had support for Alberta separation at around 28-30%.

That's higher than I am comfortable with. And I am comfortable with some amount of separatism, I think its natural not everyone is going to be happy.

Do you mean some amount of separatist belief or sentiment within the population, or some amount of separatism being put in place? The latter sounds akin to being sort of pregnant.

 

[lenaitch]

The legislative wanting to "direct" the judicial shouldn't worry anybody at all.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-chief-justices-statement-danielle-smith-9.7064049

 

[IKnowNothing]

You're straw manning this by saying "pretend" to consult.

No, I'm trying to make you understand that any consultation that comes after the PMO/Parliament makes a declaration of "We're doing this under 92 10a, decision made and final" will rightfully be seen as pretend.

There's no proponent yet. There's no proposal. Pre-emptively trampling over key stakeholders NOW would be a stupid move- even if you planned to "ram it through with the full power of government"- eventually, when and if needed.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Do you mean some amount of separatist belief or sentiment within the population, or some amount of separatism being put in place? The latter sounds akin to being sort of pregnant.

I should clarify, I mean some amount of separatist belief within the population.

 

[childs56]

I saw a tweet this weekend that had support for Alberta separation at around 28-30%.

That's higher than I am comfortable with. And I am comfortable with some amount of separatism, I think its natural not everyone is going to be happy.

I am actually a bit more concerned then I was 6 months ago, people who I know that were left leaning are getting behind this movement a little more and more every day. Not a good situation in my opinion.
I have been saying lets fix the issues and concerns before stupid actions cause bad damage across the board.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I am actually a bit more concerned then I was 6 months ago, people who I know that were left leaning are getting behind this movement a little more and more every day. Not a good situation in my opinion.
I have been saying lets fix the issues and concerns before stupid actions cause bad damage across the board.

Just my humble opinion, and it gets a terrible response when I say it, but I think what is needed is a redistribution in the seats of the HoC so that the balance of power is equally spread throughout the country and not just centralized in the Ont-Que regions.

 

[dapaterson]

Just my humble opinion, and it gets a terrible response when I say it, but I think what is needed is a redistribution in the seats of the HoC so that the balance of power is equally spread throughout the country and not just centralized in the Ont-Que regions.

So, do you want political power based on land mass - so the territories dominate? Should some people's votes count for more than others (aka PEI)?

 

[PrairieFella]

Just my humble opinion, and it gets a terrible response when I say it, but I think what is needed is a redistribution in the seats of the HoC so that the balance of power is equally spread throughout the country and not just centralized in the Ont-Que regions.

So forced relocations?

Facetious but the point stands. How do you balance power when 25 million people live in the middle and 8 million people live on the left side of the map? I think a PR electoral system might help a bit but elections would still generally be decided by the time Winnipeg poll stations close.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So, do you want political power based on land mass - so the territories dominate? Should some people's votes count for more than others (aka PEI)?

So forced relocations?

Facetious but the point stands. How do you balance power when 25 million people live in the middle and 8 million people live on the left side of the map?

I am not going through this again. Its all in the forums for you to read.

 

[Remius]

I am not going through this again. Its all in the forums for you to read.

Then why post what you posted then?

 

[Altair]

So, do you want political power based on land mass - so the territories dominate? Should some people's votes count for more than others (aka PEI)?

They should use some sort of points system based on population and geographic size.

Let me go check quickly, which is the biggest province....