All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[The Bread Guy]

That's pretty much it. Of all the national or quasi-national political entities which have ever existed, how many of their ruling establishments didn't essentially outlaw forms of anti-loyalty in order to protect themselves and perpetuate their enlightened un-improvable deity-given comfortable status quo?

True enough, for sure. The "traitor" vs. "patriot" political narrative pigeonholing comes into play, though, based on how much people agree or disagree (and how much) with aims of the party in question.

The main difference is where each sits on the spectrum of methods between "anything (anyone) goes" and "limited by laws and customs of war". It's an important difference.

Using the American Revolution as an example, while Tarleton & Co. made a bit of a name for themselves working outside the "laws and customs of war," I'm going to guess the dial on sticking to all the rules was well above zero on the "colouring within the war lines" scale for the American/separatist forces.

See also U.S. civil war, and Yugoslavia troubles: who's the "terrorist/ethnic cleanser" depends very much on how much one agrees with the aims of said fucker, with the same going for how much agrees with the "freedom fighter/purifier of the land".

 

[Fishbone Jones]

See also U.S. civil war, and Yugoslavia troubles: who's the "terrorist/ethnic cleanser" depends very much on how much one agrees with the aims of said fucker, with the same going for how much agrees with the "freedom fighter/purifier of the land".

Much the same as setting hair on fire by going apeshit over an adjective like 'rabble rouser' as opposed to using the reader's favoured choice of verbage for said fucker.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Much the same as setting hair on fire by going apeshit over an adjective like 'rabble rouser' as opposed to using the reader's favoured choice of verbage for said fucker.

Sorta kinda the same “depends on the glasses they wear“ filter on all sides, without question.

 

[MilEME09]

Independence my butt

 

[PrairieFella]

View attachment 98482


Independence my butt

Hopefully the RCMP is using this stuff to build their case. Its insane to me that their isnt some kind of illegality ongoing ehen theyre talking with foreign governments for loans, especially loans to establish a military.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Hopefully the RCMP is using this stuff to build their case. Its insane to me that their isnt some kind of illegality ongoing ehen theyre talking with foreign governments for loans, especially loans to establish a military.

France in the American Revolutionary War.

There isn't really a defined threshold "traitors" have to respect when soliciting and acquiring foreign support. They are, after all, going to be committing treason.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Hopefully the RCMP is using this stuff to build their case. Its insane to me that their isnt some kind of illegality ongoing ehen theyre talking with foreign governments for loans, especially loans to establish a military.

On a different track, had contemplated the possibility of a complaint against Rath to the Law Society of Alberta that he was violating the "Oath of Allegiance" that was required of lawyers for membership and admission to the bar.

Unfortunately, that requirement for an oath was recently ruled in breach of the charter.

Alberta Court of Appeal finds oath of allegiance required of would-be lawyers breaches Charter

Intervenor calls decision a win for prospective Indigenous lawyers and those of different religions

www.canadianlawyermag.com

 

[JLB50]

View attachment 98482


Independence my butt

I’m trying to get my head around this whole 51st state thing. Admittedly this is an unlikely scenario but let’s say the separatists’ wildest dream did come true and, after a brief period of independence, newly-independent Alberta joined the U.S. Would they then become the 51st state? And.if Saskatchewan later on separated and joined the U.S., would they then become the 52nd state? And then Manitoba and all the other provincial dominoes fell, would they become the 53rd, 54th. 55th states, etc.? That would mean adding a lot of traditionally liberal provinces to the U.S. Or maybe…just maybe…Alberta or the rest of Canada’s provinces would never get full statehood and, at best, become territories, much like Guam and Puerto Rico. I wonder if Trump and his team or the Albertans separatists have really thought about how adding Canada’s population to the U.S. would affect the political dynamics south of the border. Or even having the entire population and region of Canada as a gigantic 51st state would probably tip the politics in the U.S. in favour of the Democrats.

 

[mariomike]

Or maybe…just maybe…Alberta or the rest of Canada’s provinces would never get full statehood and, at best, become territories, much like Guam and Puerto Rico.

Puerto Rico North?

 

[torg003]

Puerto Rico North?

That would be the likely outcome (not that I see Alberta separation happening).

 

[The Bread Guy]

France in the American Revolutionary War.

There isn't really a defined threshold "traitors" have to respect when soliciting and acquiring foreign support. They are, after all, going to be committing treason.

For sure, but if I had to bet a loonie, I wouldn't think the Brits would have considered chatting up the French in this context as "hey, all's fair until they start shooting at us," either.

Where the actions of the latest dudes from Alberta chatting up U.S. government officials on lines of credit and help building a military lie on the "freedom of speech/association <================>treason/sedition" spectrum is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

 

[Good2Golf]

I’m trying to get my head around this whole 51st state thing. Admittedly this is an unlikely scenario but let’s say the separatists’ wildest dream did come true and, after a brief period of independence, newly-independent Alberta joined the U.S. Would they then become the 51st state? And.if Saskatchewan later on separated and joined the U.S., would they then become the 52nd state? And then Manitoba and all the other provincial dominoes fell, would they become the 53rd, 54th. 55th states, etc.? That would mean adding a lot of traditionally liberal provinces to the U.S. Or maybe…just maybe…Alberta or the rest of Canada’s provinces would never get full statehood and, at best, become territories, much like Guam and Puerto Rico. I wonder if Trump and his team or the Albertans separatists have really thought about how adding Canada’s population to the U.S. would affect the political dynamics south of the border. Or even having the entire population and region of Canada as a gigantic 51st state would probably tip the politics in the U.S. in favour of the Democrats.

“Taxation without representation” may be a thing…does anyone really think that Trump/MAGA wouldn’t neutralize the Northern Liberal (relatively) threat to their political survival?

 

[JLB50]

“Taxation without representation” may be a thing…does anyone really think that Trump/MAGA wouldn’t neutralize the Northern Liberal (relatively) threat to their political survival?

I doubt whether Trump and his ilk have any idea as to what Quebecers can be like.

 

[Navy_Pete]

“Taxation without representation” may be a thing…does anyone really think that Trump/MAGA wouldn’t neutralize the Northern Liberal (relatively) threat to their political survival?

Not even just taxation, I think a pillaging of resources, with reduced environmental and H&S oversight/costs, with US companies (coincidentally major donors) siphoning all the profts out would be a big part of it, and then taxation as well, without the benefits of things like universal healthcare, reasonable education etc.

They will be pretty stunned when suddenly they have to pay large monthly health insurance premiums if they want coverage, which consistently is a lot higher than the portion of income tax that goes to health care (in public health care that doesn't operate for profit).

 

[MilEME09]

Where the actions of the latest dudes from Alberta chatting up U.S. government officials on lines of credit and help building a military lie on the "freedom of speech/association <================>treason/sedition" spectrum is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

Really depends if all their conversations are about pist separation or not. If they are recieving any convert support now, its treason in my books.

 

[Good2Golf]

I doubt whether Trump and his ilk have any idea as to what Quebecers can be like.

I had been thinking only about the Alberta achieving its ’freedom’ from Canada for its benefit.

I believe *Quebecers are too savy to naively believe that they’d have a notably ‘better deal’ being absorbed by the U.S.

Not even just taxation, I think a pillaging of resources, with reduced environmental and H&S oversight/costs, with US companies (coincidentally major donors) siphoning all the profts out would be a big part of it, and then taxation as well, without the benefits of things like universal healthcare, reasonable education etc.

They will be pretty stunned when suddenly they have to pay large monthly health insurance premiums if they want coverage, which consistently is a lot higher than the portion of income tax that goes to health care (in public health care that doesn't operate for profit).

I think there’s a lot of ‘believing one’s own argument for full independence’ going on with the AB separation thing.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I had been thinking only about the Alberta achieving its ’freedom’ from Canada for its benefit.

I believe Quebec’s are too savy to naively believe that they’d have a notably ‘better deal’ being absorbed by the U.S.


I think there’s a lot of ‘believing one’s own argument for full independence’ going on with the AB separation thing.

Which is funny, because QC has always done the same and was ridiculed for it (rightly) by a lot of Albertans.

 

[lenaitch]

I believe *Quebecers are too savy to naively believe that they’d have a notably ‘better deal’ being absorbed by the U.S.

Memory fades but I don't recall any serious thoughts from Quebec separatists, either during their heyday or now, of becoming part of the US. They have hung their hat on their distinctiveness from Anglo culture. Alberta separatists seem to be a combination of wanting to go their own way for economic reasons and those who want to be part of the US. There is minimal reference to distinctiveness except the underdefined need to pick their own federal judges to ensure their 'distinct cultural heritage' (whatever that is).

 

[Good2Golf]

Memory fades but I don't recall any serious thoughts from Quebec separatists, either during their heyday or now, of becoming part of the US. They have hung their hat on their distinctiveness from Anglo culture. Alberta separatists seem to be a combination of wanting to go their own way for economic reasons and those who want to be part of the US. There is minimal reference to distinctiveness except the underdefined need to pick their own federal judges to ensure their 'distinct cultural heritage' (whatever that is).

You’re correct. I lived in Quebec at the time of the referendum and there wasn’t even a hint of connection to the U.S.

 

[dapaterson]

You’re correct. I lived in Quebec at the time of the referendum and there wasn’t even a hint of connection to the U.S.

Which one?