All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[QV]

And? @MilEMEO9

Quebec or Alberta have sufficient economic capacity to self support. Quebec leaving would be a structural shock to the country, Alberta leaving would be an economic shock. Canada as a whole would decline without one or the other, but Alberta and Quebec are able to succeed on their own. The trick is how does Canada manage both at the same time without detriment to one or the other?

The easy button is to unleash resource development and export (obviously the world needs it now more than ever). Alberta is happy to earn and Quebec remains happily subsidized.

 

[MilEME09]

And? @MilEMEO9

Quebec or Alberta have sufficient economic capacity to self support. Quebec leaving would be a structural shock to the country, Alberta leaving would be an economic shock. Canada as a whole would decline without one or the other, but Alberta and Quebec are able to succeed on their own. The trick is how does Canada manage both at the same time without detriment to one or the other?

The easy button is to unleash resource development and export (obviously the world needs it now more than ever). Alberta is happy to earn and Quebec remains happily subsidized.

And alberta is at the whims of the boom and bust cycle. If O&G prices crash, that top 20% shrinks heavily, and the other 80% cant make up for it. Its Canada's social safety net the bails people out in those slumps. With such high wealth inequality in AB, if independent the entirety of AB would fall apart thr next oil crash. Remember the price differential can be as high as $30 a barrel for AB depending on market factors. If WTI crashed to $60 for example, WCS would be about $45 or less. It would trigger mass work stoppages and lay offs.

By comparison Quebec bottom 20% is more well off than alberta and not dependent on the cycle of a single resource.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Prowess? Your word, not mine. I was just saying they’re a meaningful economic part of Canada.

Prowess was sarcastic. And meaningful seems like an opinion.

Both are valuable parts of Canada, the sooner we realize and come to peace with us all being equal parts of this country the sooner we can move past this regional garbage, and a build a strong united country.

By comparison Quebec bottom 20% is more well off than alberta and not dependent on the cycle of a single resource.

Really ? Yet Quebec most defiantly relies on transfers to keep its social systems afloat that their bottom 20% needs.

And? @MilEMEO9

Quebec or Alberta have sufficient economic capacity to self support. Quebec leaving would be a structural shock to the country, Alberta leaving would be an economic shock. Canada as a whole would decline without one or the other, but Alberta and Quebec are able to succeed on their own. The trick is how does Canada manage both at the same time without detriment to one or the other?

Alberta would be a combination structural and economic shock. I think an Alberta separation would be a slow death for Canada, Que would be quicker.

Those east of Sask, don't like to admit it but if Alberta separated, and I don't think they will and I don't think the should, they could actually make a go of it alone or happily contribute to the USA. That's not me guaranteeing success, its me saying they have the better of the two possibilities.

Que on the other hand would probably have generations of economic ruin, a steady flow of emigration as economic futures declined, and end up either up coming back, should Canada continue exits as more than just southern Ont, or balkanizing.

 

[brihard]

Prowess was sarcastic. And meaningful seems like an opinion.

20% of an economy including the nation’s largest port on the Atlantic Ocean is meaningful. That’s not opinion.

 

[Halifax Tar]

20% of an economy including the nation’s largest port on the Atlantic Ocean is meaningful. That’s not opinion.

I think its interesting you zone in on meaningful, and feel the need or urge to assert your correct use; and leave out everything else.

You are going to Law school am I correct ? The desired end state its to be lawyer ? I may be way off base, feel free to correct me.

 

[QV]

When it comes to economic diversity, Alberta is ranked #4 of the 10 provinces. With only Ont, Que and BC ahead of it.

 

[brihard]

I think its interesting you zone in on meaningful, and feel the need or urge to assert your correct use; and leave out everything else.

You are going to Law school am I correct ? The desired end state its to be lawyer ? I may be way off base, feel free to correct me.

I ‘zoned in’ on they because it’s what I was actually talking about about, and I was reminding you of that. I’m just not getting dragged off topic. You suggested a few posts back that Quebec is an overall drag on Canada and I corrected that by noting the scale and diversity of their economy.

And no, I’m not a law student, nor do I expect to be.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I ‘zoned in’ on they because it’s what I was actually talking about about, and I was reminding you of that. I’m just not getting dragged off topic. You suggested a few posts back that Quebec is an overall drag on Canada and I corrected that by noting the scale and diversity of their economy.

To me any province that requires others to subsidize it is a drain, drain is the word I used. If a province cannot internally generate the basic funding to support its basic needs I look at it with suspicion. And yes that includes the Maritimes, which I have no problem being harsh towards their reliance on others for their economic existence. Personally I think the transfer teat should be taken away and provinces made to live with their own ability; and people should be forced to migrate to where the work is.

IIMHO this think it acts a bellwether for how I think Que would faire, should they get the votes to strike out on their own.

Maybe I am wrong, and they would economically improve without the shackles of Canada holding them back. Lets hope we never find out.

And no, I’m not a law student, nor do I expect to be.

Mea culpa

 

[brihard]

When it comes to economic diversity, Alberta is ranked #4 of the 10 provinces. With only Ont, Que and BC ahead of it.

Yup, not surprising given population sizes. They’re making progress and that’s good. With that said, some of their large non-energy sectors (such as retail trade) are still quite vulnerable to declines in the discretionary income stemming from the oil sector.

To me any province that requires others to subsidize it is a drain, drain is the word I used. If a province cannot internally generate the basic funding to support its basic needs I look at it with suspicion. And yes that includes the Maritimes, which I have no problem being harsh towards their reliance on others for their economic existence. Personally I think the transfer teat should be taken away and provinces made to live with their own ability; and people should be forced to migrate to where the work is.

IIMHO this think it acts a bellwether for how I think Que would faire, should they get the votes to strike out on their own.

Maybe I am wrong, and they would economically improve without the shackles of Canada holding them back. Lets hope we never find out.



Mea culpa

‘Drain’, thanks. I think I’m still speaking to the same idea in my reply.

But this is why I made a point of the distinction between equalization payments versus contribution to GDP. Yes, Quebec is a net recipient of equalization- about $13.3 billion total; largest per province, though several other provinces receive much more per capita. But, that’s still only a fraction of the total federal tax revenues raised from Quebec. They’re still paying into Canada with the rest of us.

FWIW, I do think Quebec benefits unfairly from certain exclusions from the equalization formula, such as unfairly low valuation of their cheap hydroelectricity (which much brings us full circle back to economic drivers). I would personally be good with that getting adjusted to be more fair.

Not that it matters, but I’m a Quebec-born Anglo, as are both my parents. I value Quebec - as I do Alberta - as a part of our country. But I’m definitely not blind to its faults.

 

[Halifax Tar]

But I’m definitely not blind to its faults.

That's refreshing to read.

And I am of the belief that all parts of Canada are important. I would argue equally important.

 

[brihard]

That's refreshing to read.

And I am of the belief that all parts of Canada are important. I would argue equally important.

And I’d definitely agree.

 

[dapaterson]

That's refreshing to read.

And I am of the belief that all parts of Canada are important. I would argue equally important.

Except Calgary.

In the immortal words of Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, Alberta doesn't suck. But Calgary does.