Alleged Institutional Racism/solutions in CAF (merged)

[krimynal]

be quiet you little twerp.

Where are you trying to go now ? Since he's not in the forces he should shut up ? are you serious ?

You are the reason why so many people hate our military personal , he didn't like what he read , so what , it's his point of view , he has all the rights to come out here and state them ....

now that he explains his point the only thing you have to answer his to call him name and telling him to shut up ?

you have a serious issue right there

 

[john10]

Since posting this article I came to my senses, and realized the views Ms.Neil shares are held by a very small minority of people.

But I saw something wrong written by a person of influence, so I exposed it to others, I stand by that.

I'm gonna turn the other cheek, and not insult you back, someone of your age should be above attacking an 18 year old.

And read my profile I'm not a private in the reserves. I'm not even enrolled, I'm a civilian at the moment and can say whatever the hell I like.

I am not bound the the Code of Service Discipline.

But I still choose to follow it (for the most part), even while being a civilian.

At the moment I'm only bound by the rules of this site. If one day the CAF tells me to halt the sharing of my opinion, I will gladly do so.

But until then do not tell me what I can and cannot do, because I will still do it.

You didn't contribute anything to the issue of suicide rates. You just said it was false, based purely on the fact she doesn't like the army, and you do.

Before even being enlisted, you have a sense of entitlement about what people are allowed to say about the army.

Drop your sense of entitlement. We don't need whiny little self-victimizers in this army.

 

[Emilio]

You didn't contribute anything to the issue of suicide rates. You just said it was false, based purely on the fact she doesn't like the army, and you do.

Before even being enlisted, you have a sense of entitlement about what people are allowed to say about the army.

Drop your sense of entitlement. We don't need whiny little self-victimizers in this army.

I didn't say it was false, I said her personal biases get in the way of factual reasoning and logic.

We also don't need people who blatantly insult others because of their viewpoints.

Drop your attitude,it's disgusting when coming out the mouth of a CAF employee.

Or hopefully an ex-employee.

 

[krimynal]

You didn't contribute anything to the issue of suicide rates. You just said it was false, based purely on the fact she doesn't like the army, and you do.

Before even being enlisted, you have a sense of entitlement about what people are allowed to say about the army.

Drop your sense of entitlement. We don't need whiny little self-victimizers in this army.

how is he a whiny self-victimizers ??? He is standing by what he said , he is saying hes not gonna try to hide away or look the other way .... he as by far a better judgment than you do , and at least once he states his opinion is not only trash talking like you do , hopefully one day someone will put you back to your place , it's not because you were the uniform that you are better than someone here ....

right now you are acting like a egomaniac freak that thinks that since he's in and this guy isn't that you are the master of truth ..... buddy .... to be honest , you are the kind of guy that I use to love to hate , I've grown since then , now I just know that you have no clue on how to interact with others and by acting like a total jerk you are trying to show off some kind a attitude so everyone will think that you are a tough dude !

it's just sad , stop the tough act and learn to respect other opinions , this is one of the 1st rule in the army , how about you go back to drawing board , maybe Basic is a little too far behind

 

[muskrat89]

Drop your sense of entitlement. We don't need whiny little self-victimizers in this army.

Drop your personal attacks. You want to debate, debate the statements or opinions at hand. That goes for all of you. Keep it up and we'll lock  the thread. Easy, peasey.

Army.ca Staff

 

[Microsung]

My own input as a visible minority applying to the CAF.

In my community not that many people believe that the CAF has anything beyond, as someone previously said, army= infantry, airforce= pilot, and navy= sailor.

In fact many people in my community completely discourage CAF employment, although 2nd and 3rd generations of immigrants like myself have become more attuned to the idea of becoming a member of the CAF. However, throughout our whole lives we have been directed towards civilian employment, CAF employment, as engineers, nurses, physicans, and etc.

In addition there is sometimes misconceptions about career choice in the CAF, my family for example believed that the only careers across the army, airforce, and navy were only infantry! Their thought process, at least for my entire family (including extended) was army = infantry, airforce = infantry, and navy = infantry.

Just my little personal input.

 

[Emilio]

My own input as a visible minority applying to the CAF.

In my community not that many people believe that the CAF has anything beyond, as someone previously said, army= infantry, airforce= pilot, and navy= sailor.

In fact many people in my community completely discourage CAF employment, although 2nd and 3rd generations of immigrants like myself have become more attuned to the idea of becoming a member of the CAF. However, throughout our whole lives we have been directed towards civilian employment, CAF employment, as engineers, nurses, physicans, and etc.

In addition there is sometimes misconceptions about career choice in the CAF, my family for example believed that the only careers across the army, airforce, and navy were only infantry! Their thought process, at least for my entire family (including extended) was army = infantry, airforce = infantry, and navy = infantry.

Just my little personal input.

That is something I have noticed as well, but for a lot people in the public.

The only exception's being people who have family or friends in the Military, I don't think misconceptions about the CAF are drawn along ethnic lines.

And It's only natural for parents to steer their children towards careers, which are not perceived as being "dangerous".

 

[krimynal]

Sadly a LOT of people think that way .... That's why the Forces are making more and more TV ads , are more and more present in the EXPO's and everything ....

we don't need exposure , we need education on the matter , I always compared the Military as a city ... in a city you have doctors , lawyers , mechanics , etc. etc. etc. ... there are a LOT of career in the forces that nobody knows outside of the recruit.

When I first told my family I was gonna join , they assumed Military = Infantry = Death .....

So when I told them I wanted to probably go Artillery , they thought Artillery are just Infrantry with bigger weapons .... I spent pretty much 3 months showing them the difference , what it was , what the infantry was doing , what the artillery was doing , etc. etc. etc. ....

it's not easy to show them and teach them , but that's why we , as recruit - current member and veteran , need to be there and teach them , when someone gets on your nerves about ignorance in the army , don't just tell them how stupid they are , try to understand his point of view , and then give him true examples of what it's like !

 

[pbi]

When I first told my family I was gonna join , they assumed Military = Infantry = Death .....

So when I told them I wanted to probably go Artillery , they thought Artillery are just Infrantry with bigger weapons .... I spent pretty much 3 months showing them the difference , what it was , what the infantry was doing , what the artillery was doing , etc. etc. etc. ....

Ok,  good intentions all around: I get it. 

Just be careful: don't try to fool yourselves or your families into believing the military is something that it isn't. Or (God forbid...) when your flag-draped casket is unloaded at Trenton, they may ask "WTF?"

Everybody  that I can think of in the military (except possibly musicians) is ultimately required to do one of three things: to kill; to support activities that kill, or to facilitate that support. That's why it's the Canadian "Armed" Forces.

It really isn't about getting a "good job" or learning cool skills you can sell later on civvy street, and if you sell it that way you're being disingenuous. Most first generation immigrant families are uncomfortable with the military. It's pretty natural: my Portuguese relatives were certainly like that when they first came to Canada. But, things will change. Check out any Army Reserve unit in Toronto (or any other major city): very, very diverse.
When I joined the Militia in Toronto in 1974, it was pretty white. Things change, but not overnight.

 

[krimynal]

trust me , they know I want to fight and do it , but they also now know the difference between someone whose on the frontline and someone in the artillery , not saying that anything wont happen to me.  But I'm also telling them that I want to make a career out of it , this is what I want to do for my life , this is the job I want to do for a whole career until I retire , and even then .....

like they know that if god-forbig something would of happen to me , at least I was doing what I wanted to do which was being in the military , I've been wanting to join since I was 10 ... I'm now 25 .... so trust me ... I told them about everything , the good and the ugly side .... But they also know some minor difference !

anyways !

 

[Loachman]

Artillery is a Combat Arm, as is Infantry. Guns may not be deployed as far forward, but FOO parties are.

The job of the Artillery includes killing, and many people on the other side will be seriously trying to kill you.

The practical definition of "front line" is quite variable, and sometimes there isn't one.

I cannot see why you attempt to distinguish between Infantry and Artillery in this way.

 

[krimynal]

Loachman , for us that are in the military , it is quite easy to understand , for someone who is working on a farm , and that never been into anything other than watching movie at the TV of army stuff it's quite big.

as a combat arm I do know that I am going to fight , I do know that the other parties are gonna try to kill me and I do know that it's not an easy desk job.

if ever I become a FOO , then my job description is probably gonna change a lot , but as we speak right now , I'm in a reserve unit that is a field gun oriented , for the duration of my degree , then once I join the regular as an officer I will see where it leads me.

I just pointed out the big picture that usually artillery = BIG GUN with long range capacities , so you are not as close to the enemy as an infantry who uses small arms and does recon.

 

[Loachman]

In general, yes - but history is full of exceptions to everything.

And watch out for that counter-battery fire...

You may not have to be as close to the enemy, but they don't have to be as close to you.

 

[krimynal]

yeah , but if I tell them every exception , might as well tell them that I'm enrolling as infantry , because they won't make somekind of distinction between the 2 lol !

 

[Pusser]

In general, yes - but history is full of exceptions to everything.

And watch out for that counter-battery fire...

You may not have to be as close to the enemy, but they don't have to be as close to you.

From one of those oft-quoted lists of the laws of war:

"If the enemy is in range, so are you."

Also, there's a reason EVERYONE in the CF is trained in the use of small arms...

 

[Bluebulldog]

Loachman , for us that are in the military , it is quite easy to understand , for someone who is working on a farm , and that never been into anything other than watching movie at the TV of army stuff it's quite big.

as a combat arm I do know that I am going to fight , I do know that the other parties are gonna try to kill me and I do know that it's not an easy desk job.

if ever I become a FOO , then my job description is probably gonna change a lot , but as we speak right now , I'm in a reserve unit that is a field gun oriented , for the duration of my degree , then once I join the regular as an officer I will see where it leads me.

I just pointed out the big picture that usually artillery = BIG GUN with long range capacities , so you are not as close to the enemy as an infantry who uses small arms and does recon. RECCE There FTFY

The problem is not only one of culture. Yes, many of the minority groups who are actively being sought after have a culture, and a history where military service was conscripted, or it was perceived as a last ditch career.

The larger problem is one of geography.

Minority populations by and large reside in urban environments. The rural and isolated areas are still largely populated by whites.

In urban environments the opportunities for education / career are extensive, whereas in the rural areas, they are limited. Joining the CF is seen by many in those areas as a great way to not only get career training, but get the heck out of Podunkville..and maybe see a little of the world. This has been the way of it for generations. Anyone wonder why there's a lot of Newfoundlanders in the CF? Same reason why there's a ton of them in the oil patch.

 

[pbi]

trust me , they know I want to fight and do it , but they also now know the difference between someone whose on the frontline and someone in the artillery , not saying that anything wont happen to me.  But I'm also telling them that I want to make a career out of it , this is what I want to do for my life , this is the job I want to do for a whole career until I retire , and even then .....

Roger. Got it. Good luck.

 

[ultimatewarrior]

I just want to mention that what I'm about to discuss deals with a sensitive issue. I am a South Asian Muslim Male who has wanted to join the CAF for as long as I can remember. I graduated from a civilian university last year and applied to the Pilot trade as DEO. I went to CFB Trenton for Air Crew Selection and that is where I had an interesting experience, to say the least. The area of Trenton is predominantly white, and almost everyone I saw on the base was white. This is not something I did not expect, and I have never had any issues with anyone of a different race/religion since I was born and raised in this country, albeit in a more multicultural setting. I was also the only one of my ethnicity out of all the other candidates that arrived for Air Crew Selection, from different provinces. The Instructors and Invigilators were very accepting and kind, a long with many other individuals I met there (i.e. the Head Chef at the Officer's Mess, and others). But what I noticed was that no one else was interested in speaking to me, and by this I mean that I felt alienated and non-existent in that setting. Whether it was when I tried to speak to other people at the Officer's Mess (such as cadets and members), or other AS candidates, I felt ignored and unwanted. I have actually never felt this way before, growing up in the Greater Toronto Area. To me personally, it seemed like a form of tribalism, where someone 'different' was not being accepted. Of course, no one would say this to my face, but I felt it. While at university, I also noticed this sort of grouping behavior where people hung out with others of the same race/religion, but it wasn't so much of an issue since it was a highly multicultural setting. Anyways, I just feel the need to ask others who are in the military, does this sort of behavior exist? As much as I want to join the Forces and serve the country, I don't want to seem like an 'alien' who doesn't belong. I have a cousin in the USMC (he is enlisted), and he has told me that he has been treated unfairly and has had people ask him whether "he was in the right Army". I can understand why there's some level of distrust, but I don't know if it's to that great of an extent in the Canadian Armed Forces. I want to make sure that by joining the CAF I'm making the right decision, and that I will actually make life-long friends like so many claim, and that I will be treated equally. Any input is appreciated.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

IT DOES NOT.

 

[ultimatewarrior]

Well thanks Bruce, that's good to know.