Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Furniture]

you spelled "overspent by $30M yearly and TB called us on it" wrong.

Cool story, now explain that to the LS losing money this pay.... Then tell them that it's for the greater good while you're at it.

I'm sure that with at least double a non-spec S1's pay before other allowances you can really understand how this impacts them. Maybe they should eat cake?

 

[Remius]

Cool story, now explain that to the LS losing money this pay.... Then tell them that it's for the greater good while you're at it.

I'm sure that with at least double a non-spec S1's pay before other allowances you can really understand how this impacts them. Maybe they should eat cake?

How much would an LS lose from his or her pay at this point? Given the pay increase of 12% and this new thing?

 

[dimsum]

Cool story, now explain that to the LS losing money this pay.... Then tell them that it's for the greater good while you're at it.

If we didn't rein it in, TB would have given us nothing. There would be zero PLD, zero CFHD, etc. Everyone loses, not just that LS. So yeah, it is for the greater good.

The options were either "some people lose while others are neutral or some gain CFHD" or "everyone loses PLD". I haven't seen the numbers recently but I'd be interested to know how many people remained neutral or went up bc of CFHD, vs how many lost due to it.

There was no option where that LS would have kept that PLD indefinitely. In that situation, what would you have chosen?

 

[Furniture]

How much would an LS lose from his or her pay at this point? Given the pay increase of 12% and this new thing?

Esquimalt PLD was $800 per month, and my pay as a PO 1 went up $600 per month, so I'm guessing an S1's pay went up less than that.

If we didn't rein it in, TB would have given us nothing. There would be zero PLD, zero CFHD, etc. Everyone loses, not just that LS. So yeah, it is for the greater good.

The options were either "some people lose while others are neutral or some gain CFHD" or "everyone loses PLD". I haven't seen the numbers recently but I'd be interested to know how many people remained neutral or went up bc of CFHD, vs how many lost due to it.

There was no option where that LS would have kept that PLD indefinitely. In that situation, what would you have chosen?

I understand what happened, and I'm not blaming the CAF for this mess, but who the blame lies with matter very littler to those who will take home less money at the end of the month.

Senior people in the CAF dismissing it as a budget correction sends a message to Jr. people that their concerns don't matter.

 

[MJP]

Esquimalt PLD was $800 per month, and my pay as a PO 1 went up $600 per month, so I'm guessing an S1's pay went up less than that.


I understand what happened, and I'm not blaming the CAF for this mess, but who the blame lies with matter very littler to those who will take home less money at the end of the month.

Senior people in the CAF dismissing it as a budget correction sends a message to Jr. people that their concerns don't matter.

I have said it before but it bears repeating the the CAF is consistently horrible at any kind of messaging. If they had said here is CFHD & PPLD there would be a considerable less outcry.

 

[ballz]

Maybe I'm wrong but my assumption is that PPLD was an idea they thought of after the negative response to CFHD and now they're scrambling to make it happen with all the bureaucratic influence they can swing with.... if it was planned all along it would have rolled out at the same time as one package or at least announced "we're still working on an allowance that will help people transition to the new system" or something.

There's just no way, with all the negative response, it was already in the works and no one thought "hey, maybe we should tell them about this thing we're also working on...."

 

[Stoker]

Unfortunately I didn't qualify for the new CFHD as I paid off my house so I don't think I'll qualify for the PPLD. Would of been nice to get some extra cash to take the sting out of the loss.

 

[markppcli]

Esquimalt PLD was $800 per month, and my pay as a PO 1 went up $600 per month, so I'm guessing an S1's pay went up less than that.


I understand what happened, and I'm not blaming the CAF for this mess, but who the blame lies with matter very littler to those who will take home less money at the end of the month.

Senior people in the CAF dismissing it as a budget correction sends a message to Jr. people that their concerns don't matter.

This is an excellent point. Yes it was a TB measure but flippant comments about junior members who are about to loose a bit unsubstantial portion of their income is probably indicative of why those members are leaving.

I’m sure everyone here is aware that CFHD isn’t paid to members in RHU or Single Quarters. So if, for example, you were a junior member posted to the west coast with a family in RHUs, why on earth would you stay in?

 

[Halifax Tar]

This is an excellent point. Yes it was a TB measure but flippant comments about junior members who are about to loose a bit unsubstantial portion of their income is probably indicative of why those members are leaving.

I’m sure everyone here is aware that CFHD isn’t paid to members in RHU or Single Quarters. So if, for example, you were a junior member posted to the west coast with a family in RHUs, why on earth would you stay in?

For King and Country ?

Yes, I managed to type that with a straight face.

 

[dimsum]

So if, for example, you were a junior member posted to the west coast with a family in RHUs, why on earth would you stay in?

The intent is that RHUs don't exceed 25% of the member's monthly pay. I haven't been following how much rentals cost in Esquimalt but I'm guessing it's more than that. Whether the difference exceeds the amount for CFHD, I don't know.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Senior people in the CAF dismissing it as a budget correction sends a message to Jr. people that their concerns don't matter.

That was a good town hall.

"It's imperative that you sell this as a good thing to your subordinates" while ignoring questions about the very large amounts of money some people will be short.

 

[Stoker]

That was a good town hall.

"It's imperative that you sell this as a good thing to your subordinates" while ignoring questions about the very large amounts of money some people will be short.

I think it was discussed before the CANFORGEN dropped that whatever they were going to do they had one chance to get it right and the messaging before and after and confusion over the CFHD and "economic increase" was a dismal failure. Even the head of the RCN has said so during a recent town hall.
Its not lost on me that clearly there's money in the pot for PPLQ and supposedly treasury board is making that happen relatively quickly that they are trying to stem the tide of release or potential releases. End of the day with the economy and cost of living such as it is we're willing to impose less money on people is not a good message to send to the members.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Its not lost on me that clearly there's money in the pot for PPLQ and supposedly treasury board is making that happen relatively quickly that they are trying to stem the tide of release or potential releases.

It's funny how fast "There's just no money" turned to "Oh hey we found some money!" happened.

 

[CountDC]

Did you see anything on when PPLD kicks in? It would be nice if the eff date is 01 Jul 2023.

It is.

 

[CountDC]

Some info received.

PPLD will be based on formula PLD*75%-CFHD. I will now get slightly over $500 a month the first year of PPLD. Year 2 is 50%, year 3 25% and year 4 PPLD is gone.

Pay top up.

• our economic increases for 2021-2025 as previously announced in March of this year, have recently been renegotiated with Treasury Board to more closely align with the PSAC ratification.

• our revised economic increases, now a compounded increase of 12.03%, up from 10.4%, is as follows:
o Effective April 1, 2021, an economic increase of 1.50%;
o Effective April 1, 2022, an economic increase of 4.79%;
o Effective April 1, 2023, an economic increase of 3.00%; and
o Effective April 1, 2024, an economic increase of 2.26%.

Jul 15 everyone should have received the initial pay adjustment for the EI. Oct is target for PPLD payments including back to Jul. Nov is target for the revised EI including back pay to kick in.

 

[jside86]

Unfortunately I didn't qualify for the new CFHD as I paid off my house so I don't think I'll qualify for the PPLD. Would of been nice to get some extra cash to take the sting out of the loss.

This is one of the reason I don't like the current form of CFHD. They literaly punish people with good personal financial management skills. Pers can go get a mortgage, pay it off right away and keep the HELOC open as a "lien againt their property" (even if it remains at zero). While this might be unethical, they are no mentions about amount of mortgage required. Regardless, I believe that the CAF requesting spouse salaries and mortgage/rent status is a breach of privacy, no other employers in Canada could ask the same without serious legal consequences.

I said it many time and will continue to say it, personal financial situation should have no bearing on the benefit received by CAF members. The only factors that should matter are rank, qualification, and current cost of living compare to a base level across Canada (calculated yearly). In my opinion, CFHD currently remove the incentive to be promoted in many locations, which is goes against the military ideology. I give this program 5 years before it is replaced with something more "sensical and rational".

 

[Milhouser911]

I have said it before but it bears repeating the the CAF is consistently horrible at any kind of messaging. If they had said here is CFHD & PPLD there would be a considerable less outcry.

Ignore me

 

[dimsum]

Provisional Post Living Differential - Canada.ca

The intent of Provisional Post Living Differential (PPLD) (CBI 205.4535) is to facilitate an incremental reduction of the PLD or TPLD rate as it read on 30 June 2023. This instruction applies to a member of the Regular or Reserve Force who was entitled to either Post Living Differential (PLD) or...

www.canada.ca

 

[daftandbarmy]

Oh great, just blame the outside consultant now

Canada’s military will start phasing out old housing benefit​

In an interview in March, Tattersall said the new program was about “being equitable” and would benefit more people in the junior ranks.

She said the military wanted to ensure no one was forced to spend more than 25 to 35 per cent of their monthly salary on rent. An outside company was hired to assess average prices near military bases.

A critical shortage of housing on bases means that thousands of military members are on wait lists, and in some cases base commanders have allowed people to keep living in training quarters for months because they’re struggling to find other accommodations.

Canada’s military will start phasing out old housing benefit - National | Globalnews.ca

The Armed Forces announced plans in March to create a new housing allowance that is based on salary, rather than where a soldier is posted.

globalnews.ca

 

[CBH99]

Oh great, just blame the outside consultant now

Canada’s military will start phasing out old housing benefit​

In an interview in March, Tattersall said the new program was about “being equitable” and would benefit more people in the junior ranks.

She said the military wanted to ensure no one was forced to spend more than 25 to 35 per cent of their monthly salary on rent. An outside company was hired to assess average prices near military bases.

A critical shortage of housing on bases means that thousands of military members are on wait lists, and in some cases base commanders have allowed people to keep living in training quarters for months because they’re struggling to find other accommodations.

Canada’s military will start phasing out old housing benefit - National | Globalnews.ca

The Armed Forces announced plans in March to create a new housing allowance that is based on salary, rather than where a soldier is posted.

globalnews.ca

So build some new f**king living quarters already!

If we know what's partially causing the problem, fix it so THAT part of the problem is fixed...

Whether it's a new apartment style barrack block, or family oriented townhouse style properties - build modern, residential standard housing for members where needed.

Even if it's done in phases, just get a bloody start on it already!!


____________________


Our funding model is just righteously f**ked...

We have to return approx $1B of our authorised budget per year to government general revenue that we can't spend...but have to kneecap our members out of PLD during a time with the highest cost of living in our history? (To save a mere $30M? Why couldn't that $30M just come out of the $1B we have to return annually?)