Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I don't understand the PLD thingy at all, so I can't comment,......but just as an average ex-govt worker, if the folks I worked with were handed this raise, they'd be tap dancing in the street.

 

[markppcli]

The 7-year limit in a geographical area seems, on the face of it, to be incompatible with the RCN’s whole concept of home-porting. My initial look at what the numbers mean suggests major damage to the hard sea trades, especially on the west coast.

Have we paid for CSC yet? Because we might not be able to crew them.

This was my first thought. Imagine the Navy’s “missing middle” in 2030?

 

[Quirky]

The point of PLD was to pay for cost of living, or your monthly needs. Full stop. So if some one was paying for their house with it, that’s the bloody point.

I don’t think you could use PLD to qualify for a mortgage, as it was an allowance. So if people in Edm were factoring that amount for budgeting into their monthly mortgage payments...uh oh.

 

[Furniture]

This was my first thought. Imagine the Navy’s “missing middle” in 2030?

On the bright side(for me), it might make a position or two I want a bit easier to get when the hard sea trade POs decide to release.

 

[markppcli]

I don't understand the PLD thingy at all, so I can't comment,......but just as an average ex-govt worker, if the folks I worked with were handed this raise, they'd be tap dancing in the street.

So PLD was a pay bump you got if you were posted to an area assessed as high cost in 2009. It was deeply flawed and hadn’t been updated in years. The new system will be a cost of living payment based on your income - ie lower pay gets a bigger cost of living top up. However it comes with new caveats - can’t get it in PMQs, can’t get it for more than 7 years in the same geographic posting.

 

[dimsum]

Like GO/FO who negotiate salaries ?

Others have mentioned (correctly) that it's not a thing, as you can see in the pay scales that go from OCdt to LGen.

GOFO pay increases (the percentage ones) change differently from other CAF members but that is because it's tied to the EX-level fed govt service.

 

[markppcli]

I don’t think you could use PLD to qualify for a mortgage, as it was an allowance. So if people in Edm were factoring that amount for budgeting into their monthly mortgage payments...uh oh.

You absolutely could, it’s not different that a welder if Ft Max using the fact that he’s paid more than a welder in Edmonton.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This was my first thought. Imagine the Navy’s “missing middle” in 2030?

It's not good.

On the bright side(for me), it might make a position or two I want a bit easier to get when the hard sea trade POs decide to release.

Promotions will be wide open. We're already hemorrhaging people on the Naval tech side... This will just rip the wound open.

What effect does SDA/LDA have on all this ?

 

[markppcli]

What effect does SDA/LDA have on all this ?

Good question. Does that factor into the adjusted cost of living? If so doesn’t that render LDA / SDA largely pointless?

 

[Furniture]

It's not good.



Promotions will be wide open. We're already hemorrhaging people on the Naval tech side... This will just rip the wound open.

What effect does SDA/LDA have on all this ?

That is an interesting question. I suspect it has zero impact, as they are an allowance and not "monthly pay", but if SDA/LDA are included, even more people will be getting less CFHD...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

How much has the general population had, on average, in terms of wage increase between 2021 and 2023? If it’s less than what we’re getting, the only optic that they will have is that we’re whining with our mouth full.

I'm not sure the spouses of family's that will see less disposable income in rising COL will care about that.

I know this metric is used often, but is it the best one to focus on?

 

[brihard]

So, so far there seems to be strong feelings of “navy’s in shit”, and “Edmonton’s got problems”. Anywhere else jumping out?

 

[SupersonicMax]

I'm not sure the spouses of family's that will see less disposable income in rising COL will care about that.

I know this metric is used often, but is it the best one to focus on?

In a context of recession and financial hardship across the board, I believe it is a relevant benchmark.

 

[Infanteer]

I'm not sure the spouses of family's that will see less disposable income in rising COL will care about that.

I know this metric is used often, but is it the best one to focus on?

So what metric do you suggest?

 

[Furniture]

So, so far there seems to be strong feelings of “navy’s in shit”, and “Edmonton’s got problems”. Anywhere else jumping out?

Ottawa is getting a major boost... Until I thought about how this would impact other areas I was pretty excited.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Ottawa is getting a major boost... Until I thought about how this would impact other areas I was pretty excited.

Ottawa should never have been left out of PLD. It's never been cheap. But somehow it became the baseline.

 

[SupersonicMax]

It's possible to help everyone you know.

In an ideal world, yes. But in an ideal world, we’d all be making 30K a month.

When given constraints (ie: no more money, just a new methodology), no. PLD was deeply flawed. Some benefited for years without an actual greater cost of living than the benchmark. Note that the CAFHD is meant to make sure no one pays more than 25% of their gross monthly income in relation to a 2-bedroom appartment at their location (which is apparently the vast majority of dwellings used by the CAF according to CMP). That protection already exists for RHU so there is no need to compensate folks in RHU.

Some people will feel like they are losing out when in fact, they’ve been benefiting for the last several years.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So what metric do you suggest?

Why don't you ask the spouse of a standard pay group Pte/S1/Avr posted to Esq who is living in PMQs with a young child....who are in Qs because they can't get or afford a mortgage, and can't get a posting out of there?

They might have a metric to share.

 

[Furniture]

In an ideal world, yes. But in an ideal world, we’d all be making 30K a month.

When given constraints (ie: no more money, just a new methodology), no. PLD was deeply flawed. Some benefited for years without an actual greater cost of loving than the benchmark. Note that the CAFHD is meant to make sure no one pays more than 25% of their gross monthly income in relation to a 2-bedroom appartment at their location (which is apparently the vast majority of dwellings used by the CAF according to CMP). That protection already exists for RHU so there is no need to compensate folks in RHU.

The logic checks out, but the messaging is going to have to be done correctly, and there will still be a lot of angry people who feel like the CAF let them down. Particularly those places where PLD was high, and that's all the member has ever known.

For a sailor who joined in 2009, got posted to Esquimalt, and collected PLD for their entire career, there is no way this is going to feel like anything but a pay cut. Especially if the CAF/TBS decide that 7 years in the same residence doesn't start fresh on 1 Jul 23.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

In a context of recession and financial hardship across the board, I believe it is a relevant benchmark.

It is. It just shouldn't be the trump card. Some of our junior members will take a hit on this, and that doesn't sit well with me.

There could have been grandfather clauses to protect those folks. Something...