Another Israel/Palestine debate that started as something else - Carpe Diem

[winchable]

Because they can, a childish argument perhaps but the most important one in Western Democracy from what I can see.

I'm not going to be the one to deny someone their freedom to protest and assemble, will you?

Wait a second....the germans will be there!!!
They hated the Jews once and that was the Catylist of the Jewish state...

But the Dutch are going to be there too and they were invaded by the germans


And the British and Americans.....whoa like 1776 all over again

And if modern notions of freedom of assembly and a parasitic news media were present then you'd see protests and demonstrations there too.

If these persons from varying ethnic groups feel so strongly about conditions in their homelands, go the F*ck home and do something about it

If they do, the majority of them would get to throw rocks at Israeli tanks and would be shot.
Or they would be pressured in to suicide bombing.

So I ask you again, would you rather they go "home" and do the above, or gather on parliament hill and excersize their democratic right in attempt to lobby the politicians, once again, because they can.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Of course the Palestinians are opposed, why wouldn't they be?
Most of them aren't going to strap anything to themselves but they're allowed to oppose it, some people simply do not agree with Israel and its policies and many choose to deal with it through peaceful protests and by drawing media attention to it and complaining, hey I'm nont saying their right.
Though I'm sure many would love them to strap more bombs to their children so there'd be a viable excuse to turn the middle east into a glass parking lot (I've seen it said here before)

Sure there's two sides to every story, but whoa-boy!

go the **** home and do something about it. Che Guevara did.

And that's why Cubans call him Carnicerito de la Cabaña (the Butcher of La Cabaña).

 

[Kat Stevens]

Let's face it, Palestine would be opposed to Isreal doing anything other than disappearing in a radioactive cloud.

Kat

 

[Britney Spears]

Hey Che, Infanteer, maybe there should be a rule against strawmen around here?

Aside frm that, I assume that the Israelis have never been invited to train in Canada before, if not, then it would seem to send a contradictory political signal, would it not? Seeing as how our foreign policy is not generally pro-Israeli.

 

[Gramps]

Wait a minute.... Didnt Cat Stevens change his name to Yousuf Islam? I smell a conspiracy here.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Bwaahahahaha!

Kat

 

[48Highlander]

I'm not going to be the one to deny someone their freedom to protest and assemble, will you?

I don't think anyone suggested that we should start bashing in the heads and breaking the kneecaps of Palestinians who protest, no.  However, if they want to act like idiots, I also have the right to voice my opinion.  If that means cracking suicide bomber jokes, so be it.  I'm exercising the same freedom of speech that they are, so why are you getting all wound up?

 

[Infanteer]

Let's face it, Palestine would be opposed to Isreal doing anything other than disappearing in a radioactive cloud.

I refuse to paint with a broad brush - this is like tagging every insurgent in the Islamic Insurgency as a Koran-toting Wahabi.

Read about the first Intifada.  There are people with genuine beef against Israeli behaviour in the Occupied Territories - these folks abhorred terrorists like the Hamas (who deserve nothing but the Hellfire they will get) and did their best to keep Arafat at arms length along with the rest of the "Tunisian" gangsters.

The problem is that Arafat took control during the Al-Aqsa Intifada (which broke out due to posturing on both sides), and these people above were drowned out by the terrorists.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Canada, love it or leave it. Plain anda simple.

LOL. I do agree with some of the inferences that one might draw from your post, but if you would indulge me for a second I would like to point out that you left us for shrimp on the barbie,  bad beer and shark infested waters.

And Che, why did you check your fire?

"The fact that 90% of you here crack jokes about suicide bombers only furthers the image of the crazy A-rab with his 'Koran' and his AK."

"You guys'll be the first to complain if I start an argument of this ilk, and as such I've avoided it for months, yet you bring it up and I will no doubt get a barrage of lovely comments."

A brilliant synopsis, IMO. I miss California already.

Cheers,

 

[Kat Stevens]

Che, I understand your point, but I ask again;  what would they like us to do, invade? I'm afraid they need to get in line behind Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and a buzillion others...

Kat

 

[Polish Possy]

Wow Che .....you should write speeches for politicians that was beautifully said

I just don't understand how bad this world is ****ed up I know we have no right to tell countries how to be run and what type of government they should have ....It makes me sick that the only way that people get the message across is by sending people to kill or blow each other up... then us In Canada or the U.S.
only hear about it through the news and media , then we say thats not right, but for them in the Middle east it is because of the culture, In some parts of the world men can kill women for not marrying them ....yes that is screwed up by our standards but like  I said it is part of their life .... I know for a fact that every one will never see eye to eye on every thing but attacking innocent civilians that is crossing the line ... I hate the fact that sooo many countries have Nuclear weapons in fact it scares me and many people don't realize it but if a dispute does start between America and North Korea we are automatically brought into the whole mess I know I am ranting but thinking that years and years of hatered can fuel these out bursts  just makes me sad that this is the real world we live in.


and that is quite off topic but I feel it is important


* took me like 10 minutes too get this posted to many replys being made ***

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

"Buddy", the point is that the Palestinians do not want peace: they want the Jews dead.  Have a look at some of those "peaceful protests" some time.

 

[mover1]

Guys have you lost the plot.  And are being way too PC. No one cares about who the participants at Maple Flag are going to be. Except the local population who are going to make mega bucks. The local Bars who are going to make mega bucks, the local girls who are going to go guy crazy, the local guys who might as well go into the woods and not be seen for 6- 8 weeks, and that fat guy who takes pictures of all the pretty airplanes at the end of runway 31. The Palestinians don't care on who is at Flag. The Canadian government want different countries in Flag and lets face it Operation Allied Force was Maple Flag over Bosnia in fact there were patches going on about it. And after that is all done, all the participants go to Nellis for Red Flag....And no one get car bombed no one gets hurt. Just a few pregnancies and some cases of the clap are all thats left and will be left.

 

[winchable]

so why are you getting all wound up?

Becuase I've got about 40 minutes before work and felt like playing devils advocate with a serious subject rather then cruising the "Radio Chatter" board for threads about the banana phone.


My working theory is that an 8 armed man, Che Guevara, Kat Stevens, Muhammad, Jesus and Aries are at the centre of the earth controlling us like puppets.

 

[Infanteer]

Aside frm that, I assume that the Israelis have never been invited to train in Canada before, if not, then it would seem to send a contradictory political signal, would it not? Seeing as how our foreign policy is not generally pro-Israeli.

I actually would support this measure of support to the Israeli government right now, for 2 reasons:

1) It should send a message to the Palestinians that we will not stay neutral if they continue to utilize terrorism and "push them to the sea" as their rallying cry.  As I said above, the Palestians earned legitimate cred in the first Intifada by abstaining from terrorism and anti-Semitism but they've forsaken that.  They need to be shunned until they drop that.

2) It should send the message to the Israelis and to Sharon that we think that they're unilateral efforts to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza are good moves on their part.  They are making a constructive effort in the right direction (something in the lines of Oslo); the the Palestinians are going to continue with their current tactics, then a Wall and Hellfires is what they'll get until they figure it out.

 

[Kat Stevens]

High praise indeed, Che, thank you.... ;D

 

[Polish Possy]

That would be over 6 billion puppets ....they must be really really skilled
or have like thousands or arms .....

LoL just thought of Team America: world police  ;D

 

[Kat Stevens]

Threads like this are the reason I love this site..

Kat

 

[48Highlander]

Wow Che .....you should write speeches for politicians that was beautifully said

I just don't understand how bad this world is ****ed up I know we have no right to tell countries how to be run and what type of government they should have ....It makes me sick that the only way that people get the message across is by sending people to kill or blow each other up... then us In Canada or the U.S.
only hear about it through the news and media , then we say thats not right, but for them in the Middle east it is because of the culture, In some parts of the world men can kill women for not marrying them ....yes that is screwed up by our standards but like  I said it is part of their life .... I know for a fact that every one will never see eye to eye on every thing but attacking innocent civilians that is crossing the line ... I hate the fact that sooo many countries have Nuclear weapons in fact it scares me and many people don't realize it but if a dispute does start between America and North Korea we are automatically brought into the whole mess I know I am ranting but thinking that years and years of hatered can fuel these out bursts  just makes me sad that this is the real world we live in.


and that is quite off topic but I feel it is important


* took me like 10 minutes too get this posted to many replys being made ***

edit:  aw, forget it, I'm not taking this thread into another pointless off topic debate

 

[Infanteer]

"Buddy", the point is that the Palestinians do not want peace: they want the Jews dead.   Have a look at some of those "peaceful protests" some time.

Bullshit - I'll simply reprint what I wrote above:

I refuse to paint with a broad brush - this is like tagging every insurgent in the Islamic Insurgency as a Koran-toting Wahabi.

Read about the first Intifada.  There are people with genuine beef against Israeli behaviour in the Occupied Territories - these folks abhorred terrorists like the Hamas (who deserve nothing but the Hellfire they will get) and did their best to keep Arafat at arms length along with the rest of the "Tunisian" gangsters.

The problem is that Arafat took control during the Al-Aqsa Intifada (which broke out due to posturing on both sides), and these people above were drowned out by the terrorists.

---

The biggest challenge, as I alluded to before, is defusing all the pent up rage on both sides.  We have people clashing with eachother who've lost too much in the fighting to consider stepping down from extremist demands.  Hopefully, the first step back by Israel is a step and the right direction.  How Abbas responds will be important.