M
Mud Crawler
Guest
Anyone?
J
Jay Regner
Guest
Yes. If you fight anything like you type, then Canada is finished.
HORRIDO!
HORRIDO!
J
JRMACDONALD
Guest
WHOLEHEARTEDLY, I AGREE!!
M
Mud Crawler
Guest
There will always be someone to think we‘re relevant, but the real question is will those person be influent enough or be in power so we‘ll be kept alive!
T
the patriot
Guest
All that needs to be done is have more ex-military fill the benches of the House of Commons. The more of a presence in parliament we have, the more of a voice we will have in preserving and building upon the system that‘s now in place for the military.
-the patriot-
-the patriot-
M
Mud Crawler
Guest
i think the problem is poeple dont appreciate what you guys do enough for having military people in parliament.In the US military acts are recognize.Proff JFK did WWII, it got him in the white house
J
JRMACDONALD
Guest
The difficulty of increasing positive exposure, to the public, has always been a problem. That‘s why there is an almost desperate PR effort, by the military,in the media. Conscription/ the draft, anyone??
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
Conscription was discussed on the old version of this messageboard; I believe the cons were that our volunteer army would be diluted with deadheads who didn‘t want to be there (check out the European armies, with their draftees, unions, long hair, and other liberal policies).
Personally, I think there should be conscription in Canada for national service - not necessarily military. Let high school grads elect to build roads and plant trees, join the military, do community service, or whatever. The Reichs Arbeits Dienst (RAD) in Germany in the 30‘s seemed to be an effective tool of motivating youth towards service to their nation. Perhaps given enough options (but insisting at least one of them be taken) the deadheads would be siphoned off and a greater proportion of people predisposed to military service would enlist. Technically we would still have an all-volunteer army. I have known a lot of people I went to high school with, who said "gee, I always wanted to join the military", as if they never had the choice. Confronted with a list of mandatory options, I do think you would get some quality people who would not otherwise sign up.
It‘ll never happen, though. The same people who feel they have the right to gold-plated pensions also believe 18 year old kids are smart enough to choose their own career paths based on what they "learned" in high school.
Personally, I think there should be conscription in Canada for national service - not necessarily military. Let high school grads elect to build roads and plant trees, join the military, do community service, or whatever. The Reichs Arbeits Dienst (RAD) in Germany in the 30‘s seemed to be an effective tool of motivating youth towards service to their nation. Perhaps given enough options (but insisting at least one of them be taken) the deadheads would be siphoned off and a greater proportion of people predisposed to military service would enlist. Technically we would still have an all-volunteer army. I have known a lot of people I went to high school with, who said "gee, I always wanted to join the military", as if they never had the choice. Confronted with a list of mandatory options, I do think you would get some quality people who would not otherwise sign up.
It‘ll never happen, though. The same people who feel they have the right to gold-plated pensions also believe 18 year old kids are smart enough to choose their own career paths based on what they "learned" in high school.
M
Mud Crawler
Guest
i totally i agree with u micheal.
Hey all, what regiment are you all from?
Hey all, what regiment are you all from?
J
JRMACDONALD
Guest
Dorosh-Re: conscription-- I forgot to put the 
in there!
in there!
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 230
My Regiment is obvious and our motto Ubique is our battle honour meaning everywhere. (meaning where we‘ve been, not how we shoot - before some smart ass makes that comment).
As to putting the youth to work. There seems to be a perseption that todays youth is rudderless and needs to be given direction. This is the same one that was applied to my generation (I‘m in my early 40‘s) and we turned out fine without "national service" (by the way your mention of the RAD sent shivers up my spine). As well, employers are screaming out for employees and you propose to take them out of the workforce for 1-2 years. The problem with the military is that we are not portrayed as the professional force that it is and todays youth have no compusion to join. (If you want to see the difference just look at the US Maries - an all volenteer force that has people beating down the doors to join just beacuse of the image they have.)
As to putting the youth to work. There seems to be a perseption that todays youth is rudderless and needs to be given direction. This is the same one that was applied to my generation (I‘m in my early 40‘s) and we turned out fine without "national service" (by the way your mention of the RAD sent shivers up my spine). As well, employers are screaming out for employees and you propose to take them out of the workforce for 1-2 years. The problem with the military is that we are not portrayed as the professional force that it is and todays youth have no compusion to join. (If you want to see the difference just look at the US Maries - an all volenteer force that has people beating down the doors to join just beacuse of the image they have.)
J
JRMACDONALD
Guest
RCA-- My comment on "conscription" was meant to be "tongue in cheek". I, personally, do not believe that particular method has any real advantage, other than providing a steady flow of manpower.( way too many social problems occur) Re-- RAD. Did not we have a program called "Katimivik" for the last 20-25 years? Very little "bang for the buck" there. Re -- military recruiting. The "ebb and flow" of funding( damn $$$$) and portrayal of military service has not allowed a very accurate advertising( it is almost propoganda) campaign.
Mud Crawler- I have served with the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa, the RCR, the Cdn Airborne Regt, and the Calgary Highlanders. My loyalty is multi -directional!!!
Mud Crawler- I have served with the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa, the RCR, the Cdn Airborne Regt, and the Calgary Highlanders. My loyalty is multi -directional!!!
M
Mkbb
Guest
The future of the CF will never be very good unless we have significant threat that we can‘t rely on the US to neutralize.For proof I simply look to our past history, Canadians are not militaristic the same way some of our allies are. This might have worked in the past when we had years to build our armed forces before they had to be deployed, I don‘t think in todays Hitech world we have the cushion of time like we had in the past, this means we need to have a significant standing force of well trained/equipped troops backed by a well trained reserve that is ready for ops on short notice (up to and including High intensity war)
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
RCA - my dad was a Gunner, so I wouldn‘t dare mock the motto - never occured to me it might mean that, actually, but I guess you‘ve heard it a few times before? I think it‘s more common to mock the cap badge - the gun that doesn‘t shoot, the wheel that doesn‘t turn, the crown you can‘t wear, the grass that doesn‘t grow, and the last four letters of the motto you can‘t you-know-what.
You don‘t honestly think finding a job in this day and age is so easy, do you? I graduated University in 94 (to give you an idea of my age - I‘m about 10 years younger than you). If you are referring to the plethora of jobs out there that pay minimum wage, have no discernible benefits (pension, health care, etc.) then you are welcome to them! There is a missing link between university and decent employment - I can name you a few university grads who, before settling in to their current jobs, had to first labour for 1 or 2 years as
a) UPS truck driver
b) security guard
c) sales clerk
etc.
So I don‘t see the big deal about "taking them away" from the work force - I am sure Arby‘s and Manion‘s Security will not be crying for their slave labour as a result! Why not work for their country during that time instead of an American fast-food franchise?
If you are in the Regular Force, I can forgive your ignorance about the civvie work force (sincerely, I mean, no offence meant here). But if you are a reservist, hell, tell me where you live so I can move there! If you really think that employers are giving out great paying jobs with benefits.
You can shiver all you want about the RAD - they were not the ones who ran the Concentration Camps. Do you shiver when you see a Porsche on the road? They made tanks for Hitler, you know. Though you do have a point, and I certainly don‘t advocate their cradle-to-grave system of service to the state. But wouldn‘t it be better to have kids out planting trees, picking up garbage, and taking pride in their community, rather than hanging out at the 7-11, mugging old ladies, and killing each other under bridges?
Come to that, what do you mean your generation turned out "fine"? I‘ve keep bumping into people in their early 40s who skated into great paying managerial positions with no experience or skills, and they just sit there in the way of my generation, who has more education, technical know-how, and better ideas on how to make businesses run. Yet the post-baby-boomers (or whatever you forty-somethings call yourselves) languish in these positions like great fat sows, sucking at the corporate teats, with your 20 years of pensionable time, your 5 weeks of vacation, and your lack of personal drive or ambition, realizing you were lucky to fall ass backwards into decent jobs and too scared to move the hell out of the way of the up and comers!
Nothing personal intended - I doubt you fit that mold, but many of your generation has nothing to brag about. I just got fired from a bank in which I had two post-boomers "managing" my department, simply because they had lots of TI there, very little formal education, but now had tenure and weren‘t going anywhere - including up, because they had shot their bolt!
So much for your generation!
You don‘t honestly think finding a job in this day and age is so easy, do you? I graduated University in 94 (to give you an idea of my age - I‘m about 10 years younger than you). If you are referring to the plethora of jobs out there that pay minimum wage, have no discernible benefits (pension, health care, etc.) then you are welcome to them! There is a missing link between university and decent employment - I can name you a few university grads who, before settling in to their current jobs, had to first labour for 1 or 2 years as
a) UPS truck driver
b) security guard
c) sales clerk
etc.
So I don‘t see the big deal about "taking them away" from the work force - I am sure Arby‘s and Manion‘s Security will not be crying for their slave labour as a result! Why not work for their country during that time instead of an American fast-food franchise?
If you are in the Regular Force, I can forgive your ignorance about the civvie work force (sincerely, I mean, no offence meant here). But if you are a reservist, hell, tell me where you live so I can move there! If you really think that employers are giving out great paying jobs with benefits.
You can shiver all you want about the RAD - they were not the ones who ran the Concentration Camps. Do you shiver when you see a Porsche on the road? They made tanks for Hitler, you know. Though you do have a point, and I certainly don‘t advocate their cradle-to-grave system of service to the state. But wouldn‘t it be better to have kids out planting trees, picking up garbage, and taking pride in their community, rather than hanging out at the 7-11, mugging old ladies, and killing each other under bridges?
Come to that, what do you mean your generation turned out "fine"? I‘ve keep bumping into people in their early 40s who skated into great paying managerial positions with no experience or skills, and they just sit there in the way of my generation, who has more education, technical know-how, and better ideas on how to make businesses run. Yet the post-baby-boomers (or whatever you forty-somethings call yourselves) languish in these positions like great fat sows, sucking at the corporate teats, with your 20 years of pensionable time, your 5 weeks of vacation, and your lack of personal drive or ambition, realizing you were lucky to fall ass backwards into decent jobs and too scared to move the hell out of the way of the up and comers!
Nothing personal intended - I doubt you fit that mold, but many of your generation has nothing to brag about. I just got fired from a bank in which I had two post-boomers "managing" my department, simply because they had lots of TI there, very little formal education, but now had tenure and weren‘t going anywhere - including up, because they had shot their bolt!
So much for your generation!
M
Mud Crawler
Guest
When you come to think about it, his generation didn‘t really turned out fine.Do we have to bring back the fact that it‘s their generation(early 40‘s) who brought mass weed smoking and lsd consomption( or whatever you write that), as well as aids with "free-love":Give love freely and you get a tombstone 10 years later.
As for my generation, I‘m 18 so im talking ages ranging from 14 to 25, we‘re not much better.4 14 years old kids got convicted of the premiditated murder of a 78 years old grand-ma not long ago.Kids go range shooting with rifles in school corridors in high schools.
I think we can say no generation is worse than any other.We are always humans, and our nature is teh same.
As for my generation, I‘m 18 so im talking ages ranging from 14 to 25, we‘re not much better.4 14 years old kids got convicted of the premiditated murder of a 78 years old grand-ma not long ago.Kids go range shooting with rifles in school corridors in high schools.
I think we can say no generation is worse than any other.We are always humans, and our nature is teh same.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
That‘s a good point, too, Mudcrawler. And naturally I shouldn‘t have generalized - can you tell I have an axe to grind?
That‘s one of the ideas the anti-gun lobby has that drives me batty. They think that guns are the problem to crime and violence. Check out some newspapers from the 1920s - or the 1800s. There was a lot of crime back then, too - including lurid, senseless acts of wanton violence. Jack the Ripper was just as disgusting, if not more, to people in his day as are the preteen murderers our society today has spawned. Human nature goes on, as you say.
So the point we are discussing here, is, how do you motivate youth away from violence and uselessness into being decent members of society. It seems kind of odd, when you think about it, to suggest that they gravitate towards the only institution that sanctifies the wholesale killing of human beings, in order to keep them from being violent...yet it makes perfect sense....
That‘s one of the ideas the anti-gun lobby has that drives me batty. They think that guns are the problem to crime and violence. Check out some newspapers from the 1920s - or the 1800s. There was a lot of crime back then, too - including lurid, senseless acts of wanton violence. Jack the Ripper was just as disgusting, if not more, to people in his day as are the preteen murderers our society today has spawned. Human nature goes on, as you say.
So the point we are discussing here, is, how do you motivate youth away from violence and uselessness into being decent members of society. It seems kind of odd, when you think about it, to suggest that they gravitate towards the only institution that sanctifies the wholesale killing of human beings, in order to keep them from being violent...yet it makes perfect sense....
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 230
I know we are going on a tangent here but... (and nothing personal taken or intented)
I am a reservist and I know the civvy market. As of now I am an unemployed accountant (just grad bus admin) and can‘t get a job I suspect because of my age. I know that there are alot of crap jobs out there but my point was (I think) that all these employers need these slave labourers to do it and won‘t want to lose them for a year. (and we all know the last gov‘ts have a business bias and will not dry up the labour pool for them) However the baby boomers are starting binto the retirement cycle and the jobs will be there. (look at the teacher situation)
As to the pot smoking etc sorry wrong generation, all that stuff was 5-10 years before my time - unfortunatly I missed the sex for all.
I still think the politicians and media play up the 9 year old murderers for there own puposes (you guys even mentioned cases yourself) but those are extreme exceptions rather then the rule. We shouldn‘t label that generation as we shouldn‘t label your generation as self-centered and self absorbed or mine as impediments to youth employment.
Getting back to the original discission - the future of the CF. The truth be told and reason for this discussion is THAT THERE IS NO PLAN AND NO AIM and that is the crux of the dilema
I am a reservist and I know the civvy market. As of now I am an unemployed accountant (just grad bus admin) and can‘t get a job I suspect because of my age. I know that there are alot of crap jobs out there but my point was (I think) that all these employers need these slave labourers to do it and won‘t want to lose them for a year. (and we all know the last gov‘ts have a business bias and will not dry up the labour pool for them) However the baby boomers are starting binto the retirement cycle and the jobs will be there. (look at the teacher situation)
As to the pot smoking etc sorry wrong generation, all that stuff was 5-10 years before my time - unfortunatly I missed the sex for all.
I still think the politicians and media play up the 9 year old murderers for there own puposes (you guys even mentioned cases yourself) but those are extreme exceptions rather then the rule. We shouldn‘t label that generation as we shouldn‘t label your generation as self-centered and self absorbed or mine as impediments to youth employment.
Getting back to the original discission - the future of the CF. The truth be told and reason for this discussion is THAT THERE IS NO PLAN AND NO AIM and that is the crux of the dilema
S
Shabadoo
Guest
hey troops,
care to do battle with some one who cares?
just kidding troops, i‘ve been drinking so i would‘t want to embarrass (sp?) myself.
take care, see you at the lod.
care to do battle with some one who cares?
just kidding troops, i‘ve been drinking so i would‘t want to embarrass (sp?) myself.
take care, see you at the lod.
J
JRMACDONALD
Guest
SHABADOO-- DO NOT blame booze for your problems.
ALL- Can we get back on topic, or at least kill it??
ALL- Can we get back on topic, or at least kill it??
