AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[blacktriangle]

Ha, don't you mean HMCS Beerless... 

If we get two, the second can be HMCS Crewless.

 

[Stoker]

God no more place names.  How about something more aggressive like HMCS Fearless or HMCS Puncher

I don't think they will be commissioned, just a civi ship with a civi crew.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

RCFA - Actually might work , the ships could be used as floating classrooms to teach Merchant Marine Cadets and support various missions.

 

[suffolkowner]

Maybe retain the for CCG after the Queenston's come online?

http://www.casr.ca/mp-daly-project-resolve-aor.htm

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not a lot they could do for the CCG. Keep them as RCFA's ships and lease to support other NATO's allies? If we got two to back up the Queenstons and kept them in Hot layup that would make sense. I suspect that crewing new ships might be easier as well as morale will be boosted and living accommodations improved.

 

[Kirkhill]

Not a lot they could do for the CCG. Keep them as RCFA's ships and lease to support other NATO's allies? If we got two to back up the Queenstons and kept them in Hot layup that would make sense. I suspect that crewing new ships might be easier as well as morale will be boosted and living accommodations improved.

I suspect there would be good business supplying fleet services to allies.  The Air Tanker Consortium.

Perhaps you could bring The Hanseatic Tanker Consortium into the picture as a civilian partner (or not).  That has a Canadian connection - Algoma Central Corp.  Another Canadian connection could be FedNav which operates this:

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2015/01/31/a-drone-boost-for-a-canadian-arctic-icebreaker-and-cargo-ship.html.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Can someone tell me please how much the Berlin class AOR can do that the Asterix/Project Resolve ship cannot?

I'm interested from to angles:

    1. How close does the Asterix/Project Resolve ship come to meeting, say, 95% of our minimum operational requirement? and

    2. How do the two ships compare on a value for money basis? (And, yes, I appreciate that building two big Berlin class ships in a Canadian yard will have its own "value.")

 

[Jed]

If we get two, the second can be HMCS Crewless.

HMCS Clueless 

 

[Kirkhill]

Further to ERC's post:

And would someone care to comment on the effect created by having the RCN and PWGSC intimately involved in the detailed design and selection of the Berlins vice the purely internal, civilian process that generated the Asterix to conform to naval requirements?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Can someone tell me please how much the Berlin class AOR can do that the Asterix/Project Resolve ship cannot?

I'm interested from to angles:

    1. How close does the Asterix/Project Resolve ship come to meeting, say, 95% of our minimum operational requirement? and

    2. How do the two ships compare on a value for money basis? (And, yes, I appreciate that building two big Berlin class ships in a Canadian yard will have its own "value.")

One ex-navy Captain recently said to me after looking at the potential design, that hull space will be limited, meaning some choices need to be made on what is carried. Someone here pointed out difficulties in moving cargo around on some designs to accommodate different means of transfer. The magazine looks small and is at the forward end of the vessel, likely it will not be an optimal setup for the quick handling of ammunition.

 

[NavyShooter]

One ex-navy Captain recently said to me after looking at the potential design, that hull space will be limited, meaning some choices need to be made on what is carried. Someone here pointed out difficulties in moving cargo around on some designs to accommodate different means of transfer. The magazine looks small and is at the forward end of the vessel, likely it will not be an optimal setup for the quick handling of ammunition.

I see 45 ISO shipping containers in their diagram.

I see what appears to be a small (rectangular) space that *could* be an elevator/ammunition hoist (between the large and smaller stacks of containers)

I suspect that the notional magazine space is probably larger than you think.  I was Mag Custodian on a CPF until June, and it's less a matter of volume, and more a matter of compatibility...what can you put together down there?  I suspect that FAI has been involved or at least consulted. 

Then, who's to say (besides FAI) that they couldn't use some of those containers as extra storage space for 1.4S class ammo (small arms) which would give you a vast amount of space.

NS

 

[Bearpaw]

To ERC's questions:

Differences between Queenston Class AOR and Asterix Class Converted AOR

Queenston Class has double the helicopter capacity of the Asterix (4 vs 2)
Queenston has hospital facilities
Queenston has some minor armament
Queenston has capacity for easily handling vehicles
Queenston likely has much more complete and well-designed damage control systems

Bearpaw

The Davie Website is high on glitz but short on hard data so it is difficult to compare the
tankage and dry cargo capacities of the classes.

 

[Privateer]

Hey neat question, what are we going to name the Astrix? Suggestions?

Given that it is "Project Resolve", I assumed that it would be RESOLVE.

But I was hoping that they would keep the name ASTERIX, and then get a second ship and call it OBELIX.

 

[dapaterson]

One ex-navy Captain recently said to me after looking at the potential design, that hull space will be limited, meaning some choices need to be made on what is carried. Someone here pointed out difficulties in moving cargo around on some designs to accommodate different means of transfer. The magazine looks small and is at the forward end of the vessel, likely it will not be an optimal setup for the quick handling of ammunition.

And this compares how to current Canadian resupply capabilities?

 

[Kirkhill]

Given that it is "Project Resolve", I assumed that it would be RESOLVE.

But I was hoping that they would keep the name ASTERIX, and then get a second ship and call it OBELIX.

My hero.  ;D  All things considered much more appropriate than Asterix

 

[Edward Campbell]

To ERC's questions:

Differences between Queenston Class AOR and Asterix Class Converted AOR

Queenston Class has double the helicopter capacity of the Asterix (4 vs 2)
Queenston has hospital facilities
Queenston has some minor armament
Queenston has capacity for easily handling vehicles
Queenston likely has much more complete and well-designed damage control systems

Bearpaw

The Davie Website is high on glitz but short on hard data so it is difficult to compare the
tankage and dry cargo capacities of the classes.

Thanks, Bearpaw, but ..

Suppose I'm a very, very senior official, sitting just a few blocks from 101 Colonel By Drive (AKA Fort Fumble), and I call the CDS and say, "Jon, can you come and see me please, to discuss ships? Specifically, why can't you fellows have three or even four of the sorts of vessels Davie are converting so that we can divert the money from the big, Berlin class project to other ships? Please don't send an admiral and some over-educated analyst, Jon ... just you and me, "under four eyes," in words we can both understand, and that I can use, next week, with the new fellow." What should Gen Vance say? What are the minimum operational requirements? How close is Asterix to the 95% capable mark? (I'm thinking that the last 5% of performance/specification usually equals 20% of the cost.)

 

[AlexanderM]

To save money we could just jump in with the Brits on the ships they're building in Korea, if that's still on.  We could get 2 for well under 1 billion, then have Seaspan build one or two additional large icebreakers and we'd still be way ahead in the dollars column.  Just saying.

 

[AlexanderM]

The Dutch, intelligently, had most of the metal-bashing done in Romania:
http://navaltoday.com/2013/07/25/hnlms-karel-doorman-departs-romania/

Mark
Ottawa

If this is still available the Liberals might be convinced, as it's a good deal.  If options are now possible, there are some out there.

Also, too bad we missed the Mistrals, that might of also been possible, who knows??

 

[CBH99]

AlexanderM,

Wowa wowa wowa there partner.  Who do you think you are, coming on here & making good suggestions?  Common sense?  Better bang for the buck?  Getting more ships for less money!?

Geez, that is NOT the way we do things here in Canada.  Can't believe you'd even suggest such a monstrosity of an idea.  Give your head a shake... 

 

[AlexanderM]

It's going to be interesting to see what the Liberals do regarding the shipbuilding program put in place by Harper.  Will they cancel parts of it and do their own thing and how much would that cost??  I know the conservatives signed a deal with Irving regarding the new warships, but how firm is it and can it be cancelled without costing a fortune??  I have no idea what comes next.