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Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

dimsum

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Into the North

This came up on one of those emails on "whats happening in ADM Mat".

Haven't watched it yet. But since we were posting videos.
I saw it when it first came out a month or so ago.

It's really good, to the point that CAF Reddit actually stopped complaining for a second and wondered how the RCN made such a good video.
 

calculus

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Underway

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I think it's the same video I posted in 2852, but I haven't watched them back to back.

This was tweeted out by Irving related to the ice trials for future HMCS Margaret Brooke. Apparently breaking ice as thick as 2 meters at points.

Nope. Fake news. 2m thick ice is obviously slush breaking. These things are terrible and will never sail in ice. /sarcasm



Had a nice briefing from Cdr Gleason commissioning CO of Harry DeWolf the other day. Some tidbits from their historic circumnavigation of North America.

  • with embarked DRDC folks and HDW deployed TRAPS as a trial. It is the most northern usage of a towed ASW sonar array from a ship in RCN history and given some research no other NATO ship has used a towed array that far north either.
  • HDW was supposed to take on fuel twice on their trip. The first time the refueling ship had a mechanical issue and couldn't make it. The second time they were stopped by weather. HDW did all of their missions and traveled from Halifax to Esquimalt on a single tank of gas. Apparently, the fuel economy estimations were conservative. It was a very pleasant surprise as it allowed HDW to carry on with the mission despite the challenges and reduces operating costs for the ship quite a bit.
  • At no time was Cdr Gleason worried about the safety of the ship through the ice they encountered. The trials in Feb 2021 proved the ship can handle just about anything ice-wise during that time of year.
  • They had CCG helicopters do touch and go for trials.
  • The trip to Esquimalt including stops for their missions (amphib operations with Rangers, community outreach, TRAPS, RMP, etc...) took 53 days (again single tank of gas). The facilities onboard were sufficient and the crew was pretty comfortable. Apparently, they converted the OPS room into a games room, and despite being at sea for that long on some really boring stretches they didn't get to stir crazy.
  • The embarkation of USCG folks for OP Caribbe was a success, with lots of space available for the boarding team and their gear.
  • There were some lessons learned about cooling in the Carib. It's a bit uneven on the ship (the bridge wore sweaters, some parts of the ship were quite warm). There are some EC's submitted to look into that. Interestingly the ship didn't have heating issues in the arctic.
  • They took on three Humanitarian Relief containers in the US to trail the process.

Those are the high points I could remember. Really a very interesting briefing. So far the ship generally is performing at expectations with some pleasant surprises and some things that need fixing. RCN seems excited about what capabilities they are getting with the ship as its potential is being explored.
 
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Swampbuggy

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Nope. Fake news. 2m thick ice is obviously slush breaking. These things are terrible and will never sail in ice. /sarcasm



Had a nice briefing from Cdr Gleason commissioning CO of Harry DeWolf the other day. Some tidbits from their historic circumnavigation of North America.

  • with embarked DRDC folks and HDW deployed TRAPS as a trial. It is the most northern usage of a towed ASW sonar array from a ship in RCN history and given some research no other NATO ship has used a towed array that far north either.
  • HDW was supposed to take on fuel twice on their trip. The first time the refueling ship had a mechanical issue and couldn't make it. The second time they were stopped by weather. HDW did all of their missions and traveled from Halifax to Esquimalt on a single tank of gas. Apparently, the fuel economy estimations were conservative. It was a very pleasant surprise as it allowed HDW to carry on with the mission despite the challenges and reduces operating costs for the ship quite a bit.
  • At no time was Cdr Gleason worried about the safety of the ship through the ice they encountered. The trials in Feb 2021 proved the ship can handle just about anything ice-wise during that time of year.
  • They had CCG helicopters do touch and go for trials.
  • The trip to Esquimalt including stops for their missions (amphib operations with Rangers, community outreach, TRAPS, RMP, etc...) took 53 days (again single tank of gas). The facilities onboard were sufficient and the crew was pretty comfortable. Apparently, they converted the OPS room into a games room, and despite being at sea for that long on some really boring stretches they didn't get to stir crazy.
  • The embarkation of USCG folks for OP Caribbe was a success, with lots of space available for the boarding team and their gear.
  • There were some lessons learned about cooling in the Carib. It's a bit uneven on the ship (the bridge wore sweaters, some parts of the ship were quite warm). There are some EC's submitted to look into that. Interestingly the ship didn't have heating issues in the arctic.
  • They took on three Humanitarian Relief containers in the US to trail the process.

Those are the high points I could remember. Really a very interesting briefing. So far the ship generally is performing at expectations with some pleasant surprises and some things that need fixing. RCN seems excited about what capabilities they are getting with the ship as its potential is being explored.
Unreal how efficiently the vessel uses fuel, particularly considering the amount of ice it was going through. That's really impressive.
 

calculus

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Nope. Fake news. 2m thick ice is obviously slush breaking. These things are terrible and will never sail in ice. /sarcasm



Had a nice briefing from Cdr Gleason commissioning CO of Harry DeWolf the other day. Some tidbits from their historic circumnavigation of North America.

  • with embarked DRDC folks and HDW deployed TRAPS as a trial. It is the most northern usage of a towed ASW sonar array from a ship in RCN history and given some research no other NATO ship has used a towed array that far north either.
  • HDW was supposed to take on fuel twice on their trip. The first time the refueling ship had a mechanical issue and couldn't make it. The second time they were stopped by weather. HDW did all of their missions and traveled from Halifax to Esquimalt on a single tank of gas. Apparently, the fuel economy estimations were conservative. It was a very pleasant surprise as it allowed HDW to carry on with the mission despite the challenges and reduces operating costs for the ship quite a bit.
  • At no time was Cdr Gleason worried about the safety of the ship through the ice they encountered. The trials in Feb 2021 proved the ship can handle just about anything ice-wise during that time of year.
  • They had CCG helicopters do touch and go for trials.
  • The trip to Esquimalt including stops for their missions (amphib operations with Rangers, community outreach, TRAPS, RMP, etc...) took 53 days (again single tank of gas). The facilities onboard were sufficient and the crew was pretty comfortable. Apparently, they converted the OPS room into a games room, and despite being at sea for that long on some really boring stretches they didn't get to stir crazy.
  • The embarkation of USCG folks for OP Caribbe was a success, with lots of space available for the boarding team and their gear.
  • There were some lessons learned about cooling in the Carib. It's a bit uneven on the ship (the bridge wore sweaters, some parts of the ship were quite warm). There are some EC's submitted to look into that. Interestingly the ship didn't have heating issues in the arctic.
  • They took on three Humanitarian Relief containers in the US to trail the process.

Those are the high points I could remember. Really a very interesting briefing. So far the ship generally is performing at expectations with some pleasant surprises and some things that need fixing. RCN seems excited about what capabilities they are getting with the ship as its potential is being explored.
Thanks Underway. Great post! I don't suppose the issue of speed was discussed was it? I'd heard that the ship's designed open water speeds were said to have been conservative, but search as I might, have have yet to see any information on how this class does "in real life".
 

Underway

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Unreal how efficiently the vessel uses fuel, particularly considering the amount of ice it was going through. That's really impressive.
My eyebrows hit my (receding) hairline with that comment. Cdr Gleason was measured in his words but his demeanor showed how happy he was with this feature. He was very effusive in his praise of the project office for their hard work and understood many of their challenges.

Thanks Underway. Great post! I don't suppose the issue of speed was discussed was it? I'd heard that the ship's designed open water speeds were said to have been conservative, but search as I might, have have yet to see any information on how this class does "in real life".

He didn't mention it. Having been on these sorts of sails if they just chugged along with 2DG's at 12kts then that's not a bad speed to go for patrol work. It's likely the most efficient speed for fuel economy as well. I can ask around. I know a few guys.
 

Swampbuggy

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My eyebrows hit my (receding) hairline with that comment. Cdr Gleason was measured in his words but his demeanor showed how happy he was with this feature. He was very effusive in his praise of the project office for their hard work and understood many of their challenges.



He didn't mention it. Having been on these sorts of sails if they just chugged along with 2DG's at 12kts then that's not a bad speed to go for patrol work. It's likely the most efficient speed for fuel economy as well. I can ask around. I know a few guys.
Having watched any number of vids featuring Cdr Gleason, I've been consistently impressed with his openness and attitude towards presenting this vessel. An excellent ambassador for the class and the Navy.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Canadian Military Journal article on

Becoming an "Arctic Capable" Navy: Not just the AOPS

In the process of reading it between doing my actual job. Will post thoughts later but I figured I'd give everyone else some time to chew on it!
I find it interesting that he neglected to mention the MCDV is ice strengthened and was doing a lot of the representing the Navy in the North. I get the feeling that he is writing it with a "Blue water Navy" background. The AOP's are going to create a significant number of officers with Arctic/ice experience that is going to make the Halifax's and CSC more useful in the North.
Likely we are going to see on average two AOP's in the Arctic each summer, which adds significantly to the 4-6 CCG Icebreakers that are normally there. I don't buy the complaint that they are not "year round icebreakers" Pretty much only the Russians operate true year round capable Icebreakers and they only have a handful of them as well.
 

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Good2Golf

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Yikes! Are those Tier 4 diesels just running through some manufacturing/transport lube, or did we skimp on the environmental standards for machinery? 😮
 

Underway

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Yikes! Are those Tier 4 diesels just running through some manufacturing/transport lube, or did we skimp on the environmental standards for machinery? 😮
Arctic vessel with high environmental standards. I suspect that the stacks have a lot of moisture in them from being out in the weather for so long. Not uncommon for a ship out of dock to have that sort of plume that is mostly steam.

Of course, I could be wrong. I'm a CSE not an MSE!
 

Good2Golf

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Yeah, mostly white, but I saw a twinge of blue in it, which made me wonder about some type of manufacturing/storage lube…probably also takes some time for the SOX scrubber to get into the groove and not hold moisture.
 

Underway

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Yeah, mostly white, but I saw a twinge of blue in it, which made me wonder about some type of manufacturing/storage lube…probably also takes some time for the SOX scrubber to get into the groove and not hold moisture.
Most of my stack plume identification comes from living near Hamilton and seeing what crap the stacks for the harbourside Mordor are spewing out. Lots of it is cooling steam, but lots of it can be classified as "other"....
 

Maxman1

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I find it interesting that he neglected to mention the MCDV is ice strengthened and was doing a lot of the representing the Navy in the North. I get the feeling that he is writing it with a "Blue water Navy" background. The AOP's are going to create a significant number of officers with Arctic/ice experience that is going to make the Halifax's and CSC more useful in the North.
Likely we are going to see on average two AOP's in the Arctic each summer, which adds significantly to the 4-6 CCG Icebreakers that are normally there. I don't buy the complaint that they are not "year round icebreakers" Pretty much only the Russians operate true year round capable Icebreakers and they only have a handful of them as well.

We should also build stations in Iqaluit, Churchill and Tuktoyaktuk. That would greatly increase our ability to support Arctic operations, more than just a fuel depot in Nanisivik.
 

Underway

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We should also build stations in Iqaluit, Churchill and Tuktoyaktuk. That would greatly increase our ability to support Arctic operations, more than just a fuel depot in Nanisivik.
Iqaluit is getting its new jetty finally sorted out. If Churchill had been viable it would have been viable already. It's cheaper and more effective to refuel ships by sending other ships to meet them in the arctic than it is to detour all the way away from the NWP to Churchill. There is no need to "build stations" when you can be mobile. That's the entire point of the AOPS. It's a mobile "station".
 

Czech_pivo

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Most of my stack plume identification comes from living near Hamilton and seeing what crap the stacks for the harbourside Mordor are spewing out. Lots of it is cooling steam, but lots of it can be classified as "other"....
I've never understood why people want to live along the water in Aldershot...so they can stare at the stacks blenching God know what across Burlington Bay.
 

Czech_pivo

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We should also build stations in Iqaluit, Churchill and Tuktoyaktuk. That would greatly increase our ability to support Arctic operations, more than just a fuel depot in Nanisivik.
Churchill is so under utilized, never understood why this port is like the ugly duckling of Canada.
 
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