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Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

Colin Parkinson

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Chief Engineer said:
The RCN has already operated up to 80N just shy of Hans Island and have operated in the Western Arctic up to Tuktoyaktuk, I would imagine AOPV will be operating further than that. With the RCN being set to enter the North in greater numbers it is only logical that air assets will operating there as well eventually in greater numbers based out of the above mentioned fields.

I was on the Pearkes, with the Radisson to help us making a dash for Pt Barrows heading home to Victoria, the ice sheet was moving east from Siberia, we had to punch through a bunch of one year ice and growlers to get through, another 4 hours and we would not have been able to get through the ice and would have had to run for the East Coast and come back through Panama. That same season the Nahidik got stuck near Tuk having to move forwards and back behind an island to keep the ice from binding her for a couple of weeks. The AOPs will be a great asset up North, but very often they will be on their own and the only government resource in the area. Very likley they will be involved in SAR calls that were handled by the locals and be the primary resource. 
 

Colin Parkinson

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A little humour

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Eye In The Sky

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Colin P said:
Up in the Arctic the only support that an AOP's is going to be able to call upon for much of the time is a CCG ship. Yes an aircraft can be despatched from down south, but how long to get there and how long can you provide support for it? if you have an incident like a cruise ship in trouble or an incursion by "Chinese Tourists" that goes for days or a couple of weeks, supporting that incident with full time aircraft coverage is going to suck up a lot of resources.

Chris Pook said:
Even if supported from one of the RCAF's FOLs? (Yellowknife, Inuvit, Iqaluit, Kuujuaq, Rankin Inlet and/or Resolute).

Chief Engineer said:
Isn't this something we practiced previously on one of the OP Nanooks, or Qimmiq's. Deployments of assets from the south including Cormorants and Auroras based out of Iqaluit. Isn't that something easily achievable during the ice free season in conjunction with the AOPV deployments?

Late comment to this...

- 140's can launch out of either Comox or Greenwood, reach up north, and recover in Yellowknife or Iqaluit (I've done this type of trip a few times).  Unlike Hercs, 140's don't like unpaved runways (wings mounted low on fuselage, flap damage from gravel/rocks, etc). 

- If you launched from Yellowknife or Iqaluit, you'd be able to reach further and/or have a longer on station time (I've also done this type of trip).  Consider a 140 can take off out of Sicily and make it to eastern Canada (usually with a headwind) without stopping for gas; we've got pretty good legs.

- getting a single plane with aircrew and maintainers out the door can happen really quickly (we always go with maintainers if not recovering at Homeplate).  As Colin P suggested, if it becomes a sustained op (more so if there is a 24hr coverage requirement) it is going to increase the support / resources footprint quickly.
 

Czech_pivo

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Article saying that all 6 AOPS will be 'operational' by 2025. 

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/canada-s-patrol-ships-to-be-operational-by-2025

Thought's if they'll make that time frame?

 

Stoker

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Czech_pivo said:
Article saying that all 6 AOPS will be 'operational' by 2025. 

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/canada-s-patrol-ships-to-be-operational-by-2025

Thought's if they'll make that time frame?

Yes that was reported on another news source last week. I looked at the schedule and it should be no problem .
 

Swampbuggy

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Irving tweeted out a pic of the Scanter Radar being installed on HMCS HARRY DEWOLF, yesterday.

It had me wondering if it can/will be used as a fire control director for the Mk.38 in addition to its other duties? Or is the main gun to be autonomous from the radar set?
 

NavyShooter

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My understanding is that the gun is manually directed. 

Think joystick.

Not slaved to any FCS.

NS
 

Swampbuggy

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Interesting. I’m wondering how effective that would be against, say, drones without the accuracy of the radar set. I believe the gun itself has a track/lock feature but don’t know if it’s as efficient?
 

Stoker

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I was down aboard HDW a little while ago and I must say what a nice ship, lots of room, they really thought out the layout. Sailors will be really pleased with the accommodations., while not Asterix worthy they are way better than the CPF's.
 

Czech_pivo

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Chief Engineer said:
I was down aboard HDW a little while ago and I must say what a nice ship, lots of room, they really thought out the layout. Sailors will be really pleased with the accommodations., while not Asterix worthy they are way better than the CPF's.

Can you get any sense of how much (or little) roll the AOPS will have being just being down in the ship?

 

Stoker

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Czech_pivo said:
Can you get any sense of how much (or little) roll the AOPS will have being just being down in the ship?

That's almost impossible to predict. I was told  the characteristics of the ship is similar to a CPF.They do have hydraulic stabilization so the period of roll should be decent.
 

Czech_pivo

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That's almost impossible to predict. I was told  the characteristics of the ship is similar to a CPF.They do have hydraulic stabilization so the period of roll should be decent.

Glad to hear this, just don't want the same issue to occur as on the Hero class.
 

Eye In The Sky

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That's almost impossible to predict. I was told  the characteristics of the ship is similar to a CPF.They do have hydraulic stabilization so the period of roll should be decent.

is this an accurate description of how it all works?  https://www.marineinsight.com/tech/ship-stabilizer/ship-fin-stabilizer/

How much of an impact does this have on fuel efficiency, range, etc if used extensively?
 

Colin Parkinson

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Any vessel built for ice is likely to roll more than one that is not, as mentioned there are ways to limit that effect.
 

Stoker

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Czech_pivo said:
Glad to hear this, just don't want the same issue to occur as on the Hero class.

Totally different situation, and AOPS is based on a proven design.
 

Stoker

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Eye In The Sky said:
is this an accurate description of how it all works?  https://www.marineinsight.com/tech/ship-stabilizer/ship-fin-stabilizer/

How much of an impact does this have on fuel efficiency, range, etc if used extensively?

If used in heavy seas there should be better fuel/speed performance.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Chief Engineer said:
Totally different situation, and AOPS is based on a proven design.

So was the base design for the Hero Class and many other government ships that have been "Canadianized" and suffered stability issues.
 

Stoker

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Colin P said:
So was the base design for the Hero Class and many other government ships that have been "Canadianized" and suffered stability issues.

The stability characteristics for a 6600 GT vessel is a little different than a 253 GT vessel. Besides the RCN are sailors and do the job seasick or not. If we didn't we be called the Coast Guard.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Chief Engineer said:
The stability characteristics for a 6600 GT vessel is a little different than a 253 GT vessel. Besides the RCN are sailors and do the job seasick or not. If we didn't we be called the Coast Guard.

Tell that to the Weather ships that had to have some of their fuel tanks filled with concrete to correct the ship stability. Icebreakers hulls generally don't have hard shines and bilge keeps making them more likely to roll. Now they may have improved that somewhat, but everything ship design comes at a cost.
 
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