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Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

Stoker

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Colin P said:
Tell that to the Weather ships that had to have some of their fuel tanks filled with concrete to correct the ship stability. Icebreakers hulls generally don't have hard shines and bilge keeps making them more likely to roll. Now they may have improved that somewhat, but everything ship design comes at a cost.

Sure whatever man, you are certainly a glass half empty type of person. The ship has been thoroughly tested for stability problems and has the fin stabilizers as previously mentioned. I highly doubt we'll be filling anything with concrete anytime soon. I'll let you know when I go out for sea trials.
 

Colin Parkinson

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I seen and been on to many government ships that have stability issues not to be cynical. I really do hope they done it right this time.
 

OceanBonfire

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Colin P said:
yea!!!!


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Slightly more video footage of the launch:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=658672677886502

https://twitter.com/CanadianForces/status/1123651829152276482
 

Stoker

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OceanBonfire said:
Slightly more video footage of the launch:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=658672677886502

https://twitter.com/CanadianForces/status/1123651829152276482

I'm surprised it didn't capsize.  ;)
 

Colin Parkinson

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With enough correctly placed ballasts, miracles can happen ;)

Then again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6TYQZd0HPs
 

Stoker

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Colin P said:
With enough correctly placed ballasts, miracles can happen ;)

Then again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6TYQZd0HPs

Thought that only happened to CCG ships:)
 

Colin Parkinson

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Stability issues and bad contracts that I am aware about:

Weather Ships
Torpedo recovery vessels
Class 500 cutters
Hero Class
Orca Class training vessels

Poor build quality
41' cutter- Cancelled after first vessel rejected, contract awarded to another shipyard
70' cutter- Contract for 7 vessels cancelled after the first two required significant rewelding
47' Lifeboat- Cancelled after first vessel rejected, contract awarded to another shipyard
Hero Class
35' landing barge, terrible design, terrible build quality.
 

Baz

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Chief Engineer said:
Thought that only happened to CCG ships:)

Which 280 was it that the top wanted to be farther from the jetty than the bottom?  Huron?
 

Stoker

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Colin P said:
Stability issues and bad contracts that I am aware about:

Weather Ships
Torpedo recovery vessels
Class 500 cutters
Hero Class
Orca Class training vessels

Poor build quality
41' cutter- Cancelled after first vessel rejected, contract awarded to another shipyard
70' cutter- Contract for 7 vessels cancelled after the first two required significant rewelding
47' Lifeboat- Cancelled after first vessel rejected, contract awarded to another shipyard
Hero Class
35' landing barge, terrible design, terrible build quality.

Been on the ORCA and torpedo recovery boats, seem stable to me. I just find its amusing that you contend and compare the Hero Class and others to the Harry DeWolf Class when the HDW class has been extensively computer modeled and based on a proven design that haven't even been sea trialed yet. Will there be problems with this class? probably, just like any class that is built. Will the class be inherently unstable that sailors will be too sea sick to do their jobs or dangerous in any way?. I doubt it in my opinion.
 

Stoker

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Baz said:
Which 280 was it that the top wanted to be farther from the jetty than the bottom?  Huron?

That was HMCS Algonquin not a design issue but a poor execution of a inclining experiment. Built by MIL-Davie shipyards.
 

Navy_Pete

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Chief Engineer said:
That was HMCS Algonquin not a design issue but a poor execution of a inclining experiment. Built by MIL-Davie shipyards.

The 280s were great ships but had a lot of quirks after forty years of RCN mods and TRUMP. Too bad they limped out the way they did, but they lasted a full 20 years long than the design life.  The beauty of overdesigning philosophy from pre finite element analysis days, plus almost 20 years of baseline refits.

Can't see the frigates lasting that long unless we start treating them like 20+ year old hulls and giving them more love on pipe and steelwork outside of just the refits.  That can't happen unless they cut back on the ops tempo.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Chief Engineer said:
Been on the ORCA and torpedo recovery boats, seem stable to me. I just find its amusing that you contend and compare the Hero Class and others to the Harry DeWolf Class when the HDW class has been extensively computer modeled and based on a proven design that haven't even been sea trialed yet. Will there be problems with this class? probably, just like any class that is built. Will the class be inherently unstable that sailors will be too sea sick to do their jobs or dangerous in any way?. I doubt it in my opinion.

The Orcas have a lot more top hamper on them than the hull was designed for, I been advised by people here that they have restrictions placed on them for that reason. The torpedo vessels had to have a bunch of work and stuff removed to correct the problem. The 500's had to have their upper monitors and serious diet program to make it liveable, not to mention Flume tanks, active rudders and bilge keels. The problem with any ship design is that the calculations that come out, are only as good as the quality of the inputs going in. Plus they have to ensure that the shipyard uses the specified material as per the design that the calculations were made with (part of the issue with the 500 class). I will drink a beer in your honour if everything goes right, but my faith in government designs is badly shaken. Oh yea forgot to mention the latest OPSV had to have mods made to it to correct potentiel stability issues and I suspect (thanks to some interesting rumours) the reason thinks went dark on the SV is because they found some critical stability issues in the design. 
 

SeaKingTacco

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The ORCA class does have stability issues that limit the kind of wind and seas they can be out in.

That said, given that they are only driven around the Gulf Islands and the Strait of Georgia, it rarely becomes an issue.
 

Kirkhill

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SeaKingTacco said:
The ORCA class does have stability issues that limit the kind of wind and seas they can be out in.

That said, given that they are only driven around the Gulf Islands and the Strait of Georgia, it rarely becomes an issue.

In fairness, is there a ship/boat that can't be swamped?

 

Stoker

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SeaKingTacco said:
The ORCA class does have stability issues that limit the kind of wind and seas they can be out in.

That said, given that they are only driven around the Gulf Islands and the Strait of Georgia, it rarely becomes an issue.

The intent of the ORCAS were for training not open ocean patrolling, they were modified for the training role. Any stability issues were known as they added weights and changed the superstructure.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Chief Engineer said:
The intent of the ORCAS were for training not open ocean patrolling, they were modified for the training role. Any stability issues were known as they added weights and changed the superstructure.

Agreed. I was not implying that it was any kind of surprise when they were delivered. Just don't try and take them out to the West Coast Firing Area in November....
 

Lumber

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SeaKingTacco said:
Agreed. I was not implying that it was any kind of surprise when they were delivered. Just don't try and take them out to the West Coast Firing Area in November....

There was a paper written on that... terrifying read.
 

Stoker

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SeaKingTacco said:
Agreed. I was not implying that it was any kind of surprise when they were delivered. Just don't try and take them out to the West Coast Firing Area in November....

Any sailor looking at that boat could conclude that.
 

OceanBonfire

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Minister Sajjan marks the start of construction for the fourth Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship

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May 3, 2019 – Halifax (N.S.) – National Defence / Canadian Armed Forces

Another important milestone of the National Shipbuilding Strategy was reached today as the Honourable Harjit S. Sajjan, Minister of National Defence, participated in a ceremony at Irving Shipbuilding highlighting the start of construction for the fourth Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship (AOPS), the future HMCS William Hall. This is the fourth of six such ships to be built at the Halifax Shipyard for the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) as articulated in Canada’s defence policy, Strong, Secure, Engaged.

Security in the Arctic is complicated by the region’s geography and harsh climate. This new class of vessel was specifically designed to patrol Canada’s waters and northernmost regions. It will have the versatility to navigate abroad and contribute to international operations. The Harry DeWolf-class will significantly enhance the CAF’s capabilities and presence in the Arctic, better enabling the RCN to assert Arctic sovereignty for years to come.

Since the start of construction for the first AOPS in 2015, the project has progressed well. The first vessel is expected to join the RCN’s fleet this summer.


Quick facts

- The AOPS project is part of Canada’s renewed focus on surveillance of Canadian territory, particularly our Arctic regions. As the security dynamics in the Arctic evolve due to such factors as climate change, we will continue to work to secure our northern air and maritime approaches, in coordination with our allies and partners.

- William Hall received the Victoria Cross in 1859 for heroism and support of the British Army during the relief of Lucknow (1857). Son of freed African-American slaves living in Nova Scotia, he is the first black person, first Nova Scotian, and third Canadian to have been awarded this honour.

- Four AOPS are now in production, with the construction of the fifth ship expected to begin later in 2019. AOPS 4 is expected to join the RCN fleet in 2022.

- The AOPS are highly versatile platforms that can be used on a variety of missions at home and abroad, such as coastal surveillance, search and rescue, drug interdiction, support to international partners, humanitarian aid, and disaster relief.

- Work is ongoing to complete the Nanisivik Naval Facility, which will support operations of the new Arctic Offshore Patrol Ships and other government maritime vessels. This new facility is expected to be complete later this year.

https://www.facebook.com/NationalDefenceGC/posts/368187373806417

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2019/05/minister-sajjan-marks-the-start-of-construction-for-the-fourth-arctic-and-offshore-patrol-ship.html
 
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