Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

[Good2Golf]

You are speaking Liberal word salad to the uninitiated.

434 Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron - Royal Canadian Air Force - Canada.ca

434 Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron ensures the Royal Canadian Air Force has the operational capability to address the air power challenges of today and the future through the execution of prioritized, command-driven test and evaluation.

www.canada.ca

 

[GK .Dundas]

I'm trying to remember but I think at one point the British MOD set up committee on acronyms.
Because several times there'd been an acronym coined that another service also used with a completely different meaning.
They were referred to as the Babel conferences.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I'm trying to remember but I think at one point the British MOD set up committee on acronyms.
Because several times there'd been an acronym coined that another service also used with a completely different meaning.
They were referred to as the Babel conferences.

I was at a big international radio conference in Geneva a few years ago ... a small subset of the CCEB (5) + NATO team was having an informal meeting in a pub when our very senior German civilian member (about a senior ADM level in our bureaucracy) banned acronyms and most abbreviations because we wasted too much time explaining them to one another - including having the USN explain its acronyms to the USAF and, worst of all, having US CINCPAC apparently intentionally using different terminology that US CINCLANT, just to be different.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I'm trying to remember but I think at one point the British MOD set up committee on acronyms.
Because several times there'd been an acronym coined that another service also used with a completely different meaning.
They were referred to as the Babel conferences.

DFO was upset that I objected to Salmon Aquaculture Review being called SAR.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The US military has the DICNAVAB.



Look it up if you need to, in the DICtionnary of NAVal ABreviations.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The best interior tour of a AOP's I have seen.

 

[PrairieFella]

The best interior tour of a AOP's I have seen.

Great video. What a fascinating ship, this definitely changed some opinions I had about the class. This crewman would love to go for a sail sometime haha.

 

[lenaitch]

The best interior tour of a AOP's I have seen.

Excellent tour. A Black and Decker Workmate in the damage control space. Indestructible and probably the best thing the company ever made.

 

[Stoker]

They need to clean up their Vehicle bay and Hanger.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Looking at the arrangement of the two .50cals overlooking the flight deck, it would seem you could improve the defense and awareness of the vessels, by converting them into RWS and having them run by consoles in the FlightOps station. That would give you much better coverage at a minimal price in costs and weight. Also over the next couple of years start refitting all the AOP's as they go through refits with the Lionfish system, so we standardize on one system in the fleet.
You could even step it up a bit by going with something like this

 

[Stoker]

Looking at the arrangement of the two .50cals overlooking the flight deck, it would seem you could improve the defense and awareness of the vessels, by converting them into RWS and having them run by consoles in the FlightOps station. That would give you much better coverage at a minimal price in costs and weight. Also over the next couple of years start refitting all the AOP's as they go through refits with the Lionfish system, so we standardize on one system in the fleet.
You could even step it up a bit by going with something like this

Flyco is taken up with lots of other gear and I would wager co locating other equipment there wouldn't be looked on fondly by the certification people as it probably would impede the visibility of the flight deck. As well the whole idea for the RCHMGs is to protect the operator, can't really do that in a compartment with all that visibility and glass.
You could locate all that gear in MPOS as it has lots of space. The question is that with the 25mm is RCHMG's even needed or having them manned is adequate. Placing 30mm in I presume the place of the .50 Cals, is there room?, will it impede anything else?, do they have a magazine that can accommodate enough 30mm? Where will the magazine be in relation of the 30mm and the route to get ammunition to the mount? More and bigger systems means a larger department of maintainers where there is now a shortage of training bunks. You see its not that easy to slap on a few guns and call it a day.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

You see its not that easy to slap on a few guns and call it a day.

We sure did it for Gulf War I. 3 weeks, no drawings, engineering done on the fly.

 

[Stoker]

We sure did it for Gulf War I. 3 weeks, no drawings, engineering done on the fly.

Yes and a lot easier construction to deal with and some of the gear had issues because of the engineering done on the fly.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Well, Perfect is the enemy of Good-enough, isn't it.

 

[Stoker]

Well, Perfect is the enemy of Good-enough, isn't it.

Perhaps in your world

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Flyco is taken up with lots of other gear and I would wager co locating other equipment there wouldn't be looked on fondly by the certification people as it probably would impede the visibility of the flight deck. As well the whole idea for the RCHMGs is to protect the operator, can't really do that in a compartment with all that visibility and glass.
You could locate all that gear in MPOS as it has lots of space. The question is that with the 25mm is RCHMG's even needed or having them manned is adequate. Placing 30mm in I presume the place of the .50 Cals, is there room?, will it impede anything else?, do they have a magazine that can accommodate enough 30mm? Where will the magazine be in relation of the 30mm and the route to get ammunition to the mount? More and bigger systems means a larger department of maintainers where there is now a shortage of training bunks. You see its not that easy to slap on a few guns and call it a day.

That FlightOps room is utterly spacious and about the size of a Bridge on a lot of vessels. Plus they are only using it during flight ops. So a good place to put them as they are close to clear jams and reload.

Having a RWS with a .50cal (not suggesting a 30mm) with Optics and sensors at each of those positions, provides an ability to spot and track both aerial and surface drones.

As for the Lionfish, adopting the same gun (To replace the forward gun) that will be on the River Class will be a bit more of a workload at first, but will be a benefit later as people are posted to and from the different classes of ships. If people can't figure out that minor size of a change, then that does not speak well of our shipyards or the RCN.

With aerial drones becoming more of a threat, ways to add protection to vital spaces will need to be planned out. Particularly if we plan to deploy these ships away from the America's.

 

[Stoker]

Like previously mentioned not sure if the certification of the helo would allow RCHMG consoles to be co-located with the FLYCO gear. I know you seen a video, but have you actually been in there on a tour or sail in the class? I appreciate you have experience in the CG or civilian ships and the size of their bridges. I sail in the ships on a regular basis, not to mention it affords f*uck all protection with all that glass and the addition of those consoles will certainly impede the FLYCO station. Perhaps the two others could be adopted with consoles in the OPS room but I doubt that's even on anyone's radar. Plenty of other things to be looked at for that class.

Again any additional weapon systems even a one for one replacement all come with a cost in maintainers and training bunks believe it or not are a issue. We don't even have enough technicians for maintenance currently in that class for MARTECH's. The 25mm is fine for the class.

Regardless there are no plans to upgrade any weapon systems, RCHMG's or 30mm (replacing the 25mm) for that class and I doubt there ever will.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Your protection argument falls flat, as the gunners are manning the guns in the open currently and the area would be targeted anyhow. With RWS your gunners have far better awareness.

Having two different 25/30mm gun systems in the RCN is stupid, I get that they did not know at the time, but since the Lionfish is going to be the major system in use, it will make sense in 5 or so years to replace the current system during a refit of the HDW and then the rest as they come in for refits. That way you have experience on the system that will be on the River class and you reduced your certification/training/parts and ammunition burden.

With the way the world is going, expect to see far more emphasis on defense and the protection of all naval vessels.

 

[Stoker]

Your protection argument falls flat, as the gunners are manning the guns in the open currently and the area would be targeted anyhow. With RWS your gunners have far better awareness.

Having two different 25/30mm gun systems in the RCN is stupid, I get that they did not know at the time, but since the Lionfish is going to be the major system in use, it will make sense in 5 or so years to replace the current system during a refit of the HDW and then the rest as they come in for refits. That way you have experience on the system that will be on the River class and you reduced your certification/training/parts and ammunition burden.

With the way the world is going, expect to see far more emphasis on defense and the protection of all naval vessels.

Navies all our the world including ours seem to make do with manually operated guns. I not against RCHMG for the fwd .50cals and thinking about it now really even the aft. I'm against having the stations in FLYCO. The ship actually has pretty good situational awareness. Perhaps some drone detection system may be in order although I doubt we'll ever see it.

The issue is that we have these systems already purchased, in operation and one of the reasons why we purchased them is that as you probably know is that we have both the 25mm ammo and bushmaster already in CAF inventory which is common. Perhaps they may decide to rip them all off and go with the 30mm which really you're not gaining all that much and I'm sure the RCN can handle multiple gun systems at a time. My experience in CAF tells me that's not going to happen when we have a perfectly good weapon system already onboard and commonality already. Didn't you at some point advocate for the 57mm to be repurposed from the Halifax Class, what happened?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Obviously, HDW's gun.

I thought that only the ships in "WWII" livery could have gun art?

If that's not the case and they all can, that's OK with me, I am quite in favour. It's not like you'd be able to see the ship from further away.