Armoured Crewman Weapons

[George Wallace]

2023

Your comments show your lack of experience in several categories.   I'll only deal with a couple of points for you.   Yes, there still are ARMOUR troops and an ARMOUR Trade.   Armour has not always included the sole use of HEAVY Armour, such as the tanks we still have in Wainwright.   ARMOUR also includes Reconnaissance and that is what most Armour troops are gearing towards today.

As for C7A2 comments, you have obviously   ;D   never had to work as a member of a Vehicle crew.   The C7 is not too conducive to use in vehicles.

A little TI will help.    ;D  (or perhaps your profile is incorrect?)

 

[SchmDG]

I thought that the newer version of the C-8 out there now had been given a heavier barrel, and/or the M-4 from the southern neighbours had a heavier than before barrel....  Or is this 'improvement' still not enough to actually improve the weapon?

 

[043]

2023

Your comments show your lack of experience in several categories.   I'll only deal with a couple of points for you.   Yes, there still are ARMOUR troops and an ARMOUR Trade.   Armour has not always included the sole use of HEAVY Armour, such as the tanks we still have in Wainwright.   ARMOUR also includes Reconnaissance and that is what most Armour troops are gearing towards today.

As for C7A2 comments, you have obviously   ;D   never had to work as a member of a Vehicle crew.   The C7 is not too conducive to use in vehicles.

A little TI will help.    ;D   (or perhaps your profile is incorrect?)

Ahem,

First of all Wallace, I do stand corrected as I was unaware that "we" had Leopards in Wx.  As for my experience, I will correct you in the fact that I have been an Armd Engr Operator for 9 yrs and do have experience in Armoured Vehicles.

Perhaps you should be aware that the C7A2 does not compare to the C7 other than the fact that the nomenclature is remotely similar.  Maybe you should look into what exactly a C7A2 is before you nail me for being uneducated or inexperienced.  If a "Armoured" crew is in an "Armoured" vehicle, why do they need close protection wpns anyways?  Come on, educate me, make me more experienced.......

As for Armour not only including HEAVY armour well I guess the entire Army is Armoured then as we all have LAV's and APC's. 

Oh wait, your a moderator, sorry cancel all of my last. I would hate to disagree with a moderator and get a verbal warning.

 

[George Wallace]

Sorry Mike....didn't know you were back.

As for your post, then you know, with all your experience, of the advantages of the C8 for vehicle mounted Troops.

As for your comment on "If a "Armoured" crew is in an "Armoured" vehicle, why do they need close protection wpns anyways?"; well some times using the "Big Gun" is a bit of overkill, and sometimes you need something for those 'close in' occasions.......but you know all that.  Sort of like using a whole block of C-4 or DM 12 or whatever, in 'your trade' to blow up an old 9 mm round.  ;D

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

I haven't worked with the C7A2 but I carried a C8 in Kabul whether I was in a Coyote, Bison, SUV or Iltis.  Most vehicle-mounted folks actually wanted C8s once they got in theatre but they had C7s.  This was a point from the BOI.

Our Coyote crews had C8s for both mounted and dismounted contingencies.  The Surv Ops in the back had their C8s to cover the 6 o'clock, while the turret crews had C8s handy to deal with potential close-in threats.  As George points out using the 25mm or coax is perhaps not the best way to take out the gunman in a crowded market.

2B

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Nice tone, guys...  :

C7A2 is still too long to be carried in a turreted vehicle, despite the addition of a collapsable stock (yes, I've used one).  It is, for all intents and purposes, the same rifle as a C7A1, with the addition of coloured furniture, the stock, and the mounting rail...  IMHO it is still too long, period.

If a "Armoured" crew is in an "Armoured" vehicle, why do they need close protection wpns anyways?

Surely, with all your "experience", you know better than that... Armoured crews (and their infantry cousins) are required to dismount constantly to perform foot recces, ground guide vehicles, clear weapons, act as sentry, perform maint, blah, blah, blah.  BTW, if you're going to post anti-black hat diatribes in an Armour forum, be prepared to take some sabot as return fire.

Experience in an AEV or AVLB cannot be compared to a turreted vehicle like a Leopard, Coyote or (for that matter) LAV III.   The roles for a personal weapon for crewmen are to shoot people attempting to climb the hull, to be immediately available if the vehicle brews up and to be available for dismounted operations.  This requires a weapon that has stopping power, is handy (which the C7A2 still is not) and can be readily available to the crew.  This screams C-8 to me.  I don't even need the new "fancy" C-8 with the heavy barrel and all the new "SF" kit (more s**t to get knocked off in the vehicle).  Just give me one of the old ones (and a pistol) and I'm more than happy.

'Nuff said from me...

TR

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Oh wait, your a moderator, sorry cancel all of my last. I would hate to disagree with a moderator and get a verbal warning.

Psssst George is not a moderator....

 

[George Wallace]

Psssst George is not a moderator....

I was going to point that out, but thought I'd use a bit of moderation instead.... ;D

 

[043]

I was going to point that out, but thought I'd use a bit of moderation instead.... ;D

As soon as I hit "post" I knew what would be coming!!!!!!! LOL

Chimo!

 

[SchmDG]

 BTW, if you're going to post anti-black hat diatribes in an Armour forum, be prepared to take some sabot as return fire.

Gotta love a comment like that!!!  Reminds me of golfing with a buddy of mine who may have spent too much time in a tank....  Drove his ball straight into the side of the hill.... left a nice big scar too and then richocheted up, over and into the lake....  Turned to me and said a sabot round couldn't have done better!
:tank:  >

 

[fisteddragon]

Yep That is the SMG. Was the Armoured Crewmans personal weapon in the early 1980s. A simple machine gun. Only 1 IA on stoppage. "Cock Cant Look" and away it went. It used the theory of "advance primary ignition" to keep it shooting. Easy to maintain, easier to shoot.

 

[KyleJ]

Good evening gents,

I was enrolled last Thursday in the CAF as an armoured soldier (reserve while in university) and hope to complete BMQ courses this summer. This of course has me thinking of the trade. Do the armoured crewmen each carry personal weapons such as the C7 or C8 and a handgun? I found some information while digging through about 11 pages of the armoured section of the forum saying that most crewmen are issued a C8, some said a C7 and I even saw one thread talking about carrying the C1 submachine gun. These were all dated back in 2005 and prior, is this still the case with the armoured crewmen today? I am hoping to spark some conversation as to what us crewmen are carrying today, as I am sure things may have changed.

Thanks,

Kyle

 

[dapaterson]

Short version:  The C1 SMG is no longer in service.  Most Reserve units will be issued the C7A2, which has significant modifications compared to the C7 and C7A1 it replaced.

 

[sarahsmom]

They are also issued on an as needed basis. Like for trips to the range and the like. So personal in that it gets issued to one person, but not personal as in this is my gun until I retire

 

[KyleJ]

Thanks for the info.

Are handguns issued at all? And I would have figured the C8 would be more convenient due to the more compact size..

 

[brihard]

Thanks for the info.

Are handguns issued at all? And I would have figured the C8 would be more convenient due to the more compact size..

Pistols are fun and cool, but they exist to fight your way to a rifle. I carry a pistol every day at work, but it's for if I'm caught by surprise. if I think I'll need a gun ahead of time, I grab something longer.

C8s are about 4" shorter than a C7. The addition of the retracting stock to the C7A2 has knocked the length down a fair bit. Regular force armour will often carry C8s. Reserves, I'm not sure.

 

[OldSolduer]

As an infantry guy - retired - I would have said armoured troops should be issued slingshots.....

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Thanks for the info.

Are handguns issued at all? And I would have figured the C8 would be more convenient due to the more compact size..

At the Regiment (RCD) I carried a C8 when I was in an AFV (Troop Leader. Battle Captain etc). I was also issued a pistol as a Battle Captain, OC, R2IC. I seem to recall all AFV crewmen carrying C8s but I could be wrong. I carried a C8 and a pistol during my first Afghan tour as did most crew commanders at that time. Pistols are fine for crew commanders when they dismount quickly, but it is a secondary weapon.

When I was in a Reserve Armoured unit circa 1989-1997 we had a smaller number of C8s so many guys had C7s instead. We had a few pistols but these were for senior personnel. I am not sure how it is now.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The last armoured soldiers i've heard of were mounted on horses with sword, morning stars, a mace or lance.  [

You were likely thinking of a soldier in the Armoured Corps.

You become a full crewman and Trooper rank after you complete your Corps trade training.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

As an infantry guy - retired - I would have said armoured troops should be issued slingshots.....

Armoured troops should be issued a squire, and fair maiden to rescue.  [

Armour troops can be issued slingshots.  [

Armour, Infantry, Artillery, Engineer 

I appear to be going through a either/ both a didactic or pedantic phase, Could be I'm heading into that long awaited and expected, second childhood. 8)