Armoured Light Recce Vehicle for PRes Armd? (Merged splits from LAV III MGS and from TAPV)

[tango22a]

Recceguy:

RCAC  has NO time to waste on problems facing PRes Regiments. They seem to feel that if WE (PRes) have no viable Role then we can be ignored and left to muddle along as we have for countless years,

tango22a

It's possible that they feel that if PRes Armour had a defined Role that then they would be forced to support us???

 

[McG]

They [the Armd branch] seem to feel that if WE (PRes) have no viable Role then we can be ignored and left to muddle along as we have for countless years ...

It's possible that they feel that if PRes Armour had a defined Role that then they would be forced to support us???

If there is no viable role for reserve armour, then maybe it is time for the units to seek roles outside that branch?  The branch should not be inventing unnecessary roles to justify keeping units in its beret colour.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If there is no viable role for reserve armour, then maybe it is time for the units to seek roles outside that branch?  The branch should not be inventing unnecessary roles to justify keeping units in its beret colour.

Bring it on.

 

[tango22a]

MCG:

How can there be a VIABLE Role for PRes Armour if the RCAC refuses to define a Role for it?


tango22a

 

[Franko]

MCG:

How can there be a VIABLE Role for PRes Armour if the RCAC refuses to define a Role for it?


tango22a

What's stopping the various Regiments from getting together and drafting up a paper and presenting it at the next Corps meeting?

Just a thought.

 

[George Wallace]

MCG:

How can there be a VIABLE Role for PRes Armour if the RCAC refuses to define a Role for it?


tango22a

It is a common theme.  Has been for the past twenty odd years.  Why did the Infantry have to standardize C-6 Drills........Then do the same with the 25 mm Drills?  The Branch has been dropping the ball for a couple of decades.

 

[George Wallace]

What's stopping the various Regiments from getting together and drafting up a paper and presenting it at the next Corps meeting?

Just a thought.

You are a joker aren't you?    >

You may want to see what goes on at a Corps meeting, or read the minutes.  A lot of indicision going on there, and political posturing, to ensure nothing constructive/creative gets done.


I suppose we should play a game of "Shock the Monkey".  >

 

[Franko]

You may want to see what goes on at a Corps meeting, or read the minutes.  A lot of indicision going on there, and political posturing, to ensure nothing constructive/creative gets done.

You forget, I was there in the late 80s/ early 90's....I've seen some pretty neat stuff in the room.

Regards

 

[tango22a]

MCG:

Why do I get the impression that you have absolutely NO use for PRes Armoured Regiments? Sorry, but  that's the impression that I read into your posts.


Der Panzer Kommandant:

Do you think that the RCAC really cares what we PRes Plugs think or how we feel since as someone stated before "we are the red-headed step-children of the Corps" ? Many good ideas may have been postulated at RCAC Association meeting but they NEVER seemed to trickle-down to the PRes Regiments.Also all that "neat stuff" never left the room!!



tango22a

 

[Bzzliteyr]

NBC recce.

 

[McG]

MCG:

Why do I get the impression that you have absolutely NO use for PRes Armoured Regiments?

I have no use for any unit which does not capably fill a doctrinally supported role.  This is nothing specific against Armoured, PRes or the combination of the two.

I'd like to note that a unit with a doctrinally supported role that it is not capable of meeting is just as useless as a unit with absolutely no doctrinally supported role.  To wish for a role dependent on equipment that will never be available is to be living in a fantasy. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

NBC recce.

...and become coffee fetchers for the Trenton boys : If the real thing happened we'd only be providing a cordone for 'those guys'.

I did the old civil defence NBCW role in the sixties. Back then, it's what it would be now. A way to keep us busy without any monetary outlay while patting us on the head, and keeping us out of trouble.

 

[tango22a]

Buzz:

BTDT... took courses from Civil Defence in late 60s, since this was part of our tasking at the time.

tango22a

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have no use for any unit which does not capably fill a doctrinally supported role.  This is nothing specific against Armoured, PRes or the combination of the two.

I'd like to note that a unit with a doctrinally supported role that it is not capable of meeting is just as useless as a unit with absolutely no doctrinally supported role.  To wish for a role dependent on equipment that will never be available is to be living in a fantasy.

What I've been saying. Give us a role and doctrine, we'll figure out the TO&E after those first two things are firmed up and are more than someone's wish from a power point presentation.

 

[tango22a]

MCG:

I "think" that you would agree that it is harder for a "unit" to perform a non-doctrinally supported tasking as opposed to a "unit" that is/or is not performing a doctrinally supported tasking. It tends to make one feel as if one is all dressed up with no place to go.

tango22a

 

[Fishbone Jones]

MCG:

I "think" that you would agree that it is harder for a "unit" to perform a non-doctrinally supported tasking as opposed to a "unit" that is/or is not performing a doctrinally supported tasking. It tends to make one feel as if one is all dressed up with no place to go.

tango22a

When you're done with the flyshit\ pepper discussion, perhaps we could get back on track.

The heck with it all. I've said what I wanted to say, I don't see any big changes in our future.

 

[tango22a]

Recceguy:

Sorry about that, I'm outta here!

Cheers,

tango22a

 

[McG]

I "think" that you would agree that it is harder for a "unit" to perform a non-doctrinally supported tasking as opposed to a "unit" that is/or is not performing a doctrinally supported tasking. It tends to make one feel as if one is all dressed up with no place to go.

???
Reserve unit without a doctrinal role = useless
Reserve unit that is institutionally unable to achieve its doctrinal role = useless

If armoured reserve units cannot avoid both those pitfalls while remaining armoured, then it is time to look at re-role.  The Army should be directing this, and units with an interest in their own future should be working to guide their way to a role they want (and which fits the Army's needs).  Don't wait for the Branch to do it.  The Armoured branch does not care to find non-Armoured roles for its reserve units.

 

[George Wallace]

Talk about a "Dysfunctional Family".

 

[George Wallace]

I know I told myself to walk away, but this seems like a good input to the discusion from another thread:

So, let me rejuvenate this topic given whats going on today.  For the last 5 years the Reserves have provided substantial augmentation to the the mission in Afghanistan.  They have become an active resource for domestic operations from running MCDVs to Land operations.  They are an important part of the CF's operational capability.  On top of this there are approx 10,000 "full time" Class Bs working in the CF keeping it functioning day to day.  In fact many of the departments and branches could not function without them.  This dynamic accounts for almost one in three Reservists are working full time. This is an operational Reserve.  What is missing is the policy and systemic work to enhance this capability to allow for effective management of the resource.

At the same time, the CF has left the National Mobilization concept clearly behind.  The Strategic role of the Reserves and it is a very important one is the critical link to our communities across the country.  One could also argue that the basic structures of the Army Reserve and Navres provide a strategic expansion structure if required.

The pressures on the Reserves now have fundamentally changed its nature.  Sure reservists still parade on weekends and nights at their locations and sure there is a part time reality to the Given all of this and the fundamental change to the nature and use of the reservesservice but this reality has been impacted by large numbers of "Combat veterans" who are demanding more than the usual Tuesday night parade.

As a direct result of these new roles, training and military education has moved to new levels of harmonization.  The Air Reserve and the NavRes now complete the same training as their regular components while the Army has made substantial advances to the same objectives.

Given all of this and the fundamental change to our understanding what should be the future?  What does the Reserve gain or lose by moving to a purely strategic resource or embracing a more operational role?

grognard73

The thought  then developed in my mind that if the Corps really wanted to bring Reserve Armour up to speed on the current equipment and tactics, etc., then perhaps the Corps should budget now, and plan now to spend time in the Summer months to run Crses for Reservists.  Run Turret Operator (25 mm and 120 mm) for Reservists.  Run Surv OP courses.  Run D&M Crses.  Get rid of the Training Delta.  Provide for a good pool of trained pers to draw from to supplement Operations.

What does it take?  Drive and Determination and above all, Strong Leadership at the top in the Corps.