Armoured Recce Vehicle

[George Wallace]

While I've not confused that vehicle as a suitable recce vehicle, it is a military vehicle.  It is the Ferret (though significantly modified by Jordan).

What I was getting on about there is the fact that many Third World nation have quite extensive collections of armoured vehicles for their Police Forces, but are rather lightly armoured and shouldn't be considered as "true" armoured vehicles in the military sense.  Although a Ferret chassis, that vehicle has been more or less "civilianized". 

 

[guns_and_roses]

The Fennek would be better then the MGS i researched the MGS yesterday and definitely wouldn't fit the role. George, would it be good to use the Fennek as the Recce vehicle, and the coyote as the surveillance vehicle?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

From my outside view Armoured recce in Canada still seems based around the tactics which used the Lynx and the Ferret. Neither vehicle was really designed to go head on with an enemy force. So recce by stealth is most important, this method lived on in the reserve units equipped with M38’s armed with GPMG’s

British recce seemed to built around a more layered plan, with the Ferret/Vixen (cancelled) backed up with Foxes and Saracens to provide the ability to “force”their way through light screening units.

Soviet recce seem to be a similar mix of BRDM, BTR 80’s and BMP 1’s with more of a leaning towards heavier arms forcing through NATO screens

Not to sure about the German or US model

 

[ironduke57]

...
Not to sure about the German ...

Well that we had in our heavy recce unit´s MBT´s should say enough. But that ended after the cold war. Now we have the Fennek which should make recon undetected by the enemy. No "Fight for Information" anymore.

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[George Wallace]

The Fennek is an "enclosed" vehicle that takes away some of the crews use of their 'human senses" in that they could not use their sense of hearing and sense of smell.  It has a Surv Suite that isn't as effective as the Coyote, and a much shorter mast, but would give a Recce element an extra tool to look out to greater distances.  The Germans are using it in Afghanistan.

German Recce was similar to American and Soviet Recce, in that they were prepared to fight for their information.  The Germans didn't start using MBTs for Recce until the late 80's when they had equiped all of their Tank Regiments with the Leo 2 and then cascaded all their Leo 1's down to the Aufkar Bns.  That practice was put to an end with the terms of CAT after the Wall came down.

Chretian missed a golden opportunity at that time to get the latest Leo 2's, as the Germans were willing to leave their Armour equipment in Canada when they finally left Shilo and it would have been cheaper for them to leave them in Canada, as partial payment for the use of Canadian Trg Areas, rather than ship them back to Germany to be cut up as scrap.  Canada, however, had decided that it was going to have a totally wheeled army.

 

[ironduke57]

...
German Recce was similar to American and Soviet Recce, in that they were prepared to fight for their information.  The Germans didn't start using MBTs for Recce until the late 80's when they had equiped all of their Tank Regiments with the Leo 2 and then cascaded all their Leo 1's down to the Aufkar Bns.  ...

From 56 to 69 our recon unit´s used M41 tank´s. After 69 they were replaced with Leo1´s.

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[George Wallace]

After '69 the majority, if not all, were going to be using the Luchs, not Leo 1's.  The Tank Bns were only getting the first Leo 1's in the early 70's. 

 

[ironduke57]

After '69 the majority, if not all, were going to be using the Luchs. 

That´s why I wrote "heavy" recce unit´s.

 

[Franko]

RBD  while most Cdn troopers will share that opinion of the MGS, I haven't heard the US saying negative things about the beast since they have fielded them in Iraq.  Based on the Stryker, the US Army appears to rave about the vehicle.

That's because it's being used for the role it was intended (unlike someone's idea here in Canada), and they've only had them since May IIRC.

Regards

 

[Rayman]

At the suggestion of Kirkhill I read through a good bit of the recce posts. I also went looking up some of these machines on my own. In my travels I happened across this page though in Brazillian has a good few vehicles on it. Worth a look if you have the time:

http://www.defesanet.com.br/rv/4x4/index.htm

It looks like it has the Panhard in there as well as a vehicle known as the AVIBRAS AV-VBL though personally from what the armoured people say here the flat bottom wouldnt be too good with IEDs and such. However Avibras does make a recce version of the AV-VBL called the AV-VB4-RE.


(Edit-forgot its Brazillian and not Brazil)

 

[geo]

If we're looking for a stealthy Reconnaissance then the Swiss Mowag Eagle IV might be the route to follow.

OR, a similar set of wheels the French VBL

Not quite the vehicle to fight WW3 in, but something to give the RECCE troopers some good all round protection

 

[Rayman]

Man that Panhard looks almost like the JGSDF LAV http://hometown.aol.com/davesarmour/jgsdflav.htm

BTW for the 1000s of Fennek enthusiasts here I come bearing gifts:

http://www.primeportal.net/apc/apc_home.htm#fennek

Its a site meant for modellers, I saw it get a little mention in the Gaming and Modelling board, but nothing more. Tonnes of pics of everything in there. Best walk around if you ask is Mr. Hans-Hermann Bühling's. If you go to The Battlefield pics, then Armour theres tonnes of pics and walk arounds of everything. AND I mean EVERYTHING.

 

[ONTrecce]

I'm kinda partial to the ULTRA AP, the concept that the US Marines are fronting to replace the aging Hummer.  It comes up-armoured, with a V-shaped bottom and "blast bucket" design.  I know its design is a knee-jerk reaction to the Hummer's failures in Iraq, but the 360o crew placement would be key for recce.  Plus it looks C-130/C-5 transportable



http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001933.html

 

[geo]

To date, ULTRA AP is, for lack of a better description, "vapor ware".....

 

[ONTrecce]

True...too bad though, I hope some of its better ideas can be incoporated into future recce vehicles though

 

[Matt_Fisher]

To date, ULTRA AP is, for lack of a better description, "vapor ware".....

I wouldn't say that, as the Armored AP vehicle was only ever meant to be a technology demonstrator project by the Office of Naval Research.  There were never any serious plans to put the thing into production.

 

[geo]

OK Matt,  possibly I shoulda covered my bases by saying that the ULTRA AP vehicle was something like a concept car that they did not intend to build....

Still not going to get you one in the garage though

 

[Fencer_1983]

I might know jack all, but the trend -- especially for recon -- seems to be unmanned vehicles.  Recently, I was watching an episode of 'future weapons', and they featured a 6 wheeled unmanned ground vehicle (in fact it had the option of being completely autonomous) about the size of a car called the 'crusher'.  Obviously not putting men or women directly in harms way is a huge advantage.  In addition not requiring a driver, commander, etc. saves all that space and makes the vehicle significantly smaller -- the sensors and computers take up less room than people.

I'm currently finishing off my BSc in computer science and have focused a lot in recent years on Artificial Intelligence... I can tell you that this field is exploding and in maybe 15-20 years... I don't see the need of any armoured recce vehicle to be manned, or even remotely controlled for that matter.  Definitely scary.

(btw I skimmed the previous posts so my apologies if this was mentioned before)

http://www.rec.ri.cmu.edu/projects/crusher/index.htm

 

[Franko]

Recently, I was watching an episode of 'future weapons'......

Just remember that it's a fluff show and nothing more.     

Regards

 

[geo]

Fencer, not putting men and women on the ground in harm's way is great in concept BUT, there will always be a need for eyes and ears on the ground.  Looking at video feeds and pictures, listening to sensor logs are all great things but, reading combat info with the Mk1 eyeball will always be necessary.