Armoured Soldier Questions

[TangoTwoBravo]

Hey guys,
I was wondering if anyone could tell me if gunners are officers as well.

If your question is related to an interest in AFV gunnery and whether you will be able to pursue that interest as an Armoured Officer then yes, as an armoured officer you will learn and practice AFV gunnery. The Crewmen (non-commissioned members of the Armoured Corps) are the experts in AFV gunnery and will have much more experience, but as an armoured officer you will typically be a crew commander of some sort and will learn gunnery in your training at the School and practice it at your Regiment.

If you were to go through right now you would learn both sides of the 25mm turret (commander and gunner) and possibly Leopard C2 and Leopard 2A6. During these gunnery courses you will learn how to be a gunner on the applicable system in addition to how to be a crew commander for gunnery. Once you are in a Troop you will not normally be the one pulling the trigger as you should have an experienced gunner who will do that and as others have said you would only step in directly in an emergency or a special case. Indeed, gunners are getting more and more responsibilities today with regards to shoots compared to the rather prescriptive days of yore. As a crew commander, however, you are still very much involved in AFV gunnery/shooting.

Gunnery is, however, only one part of being a crew commander and that in turn is only one part of being a Troop Leader.

Cheers

p.s. Hales was kidding (I believe), but I would never have said to my gunner (or anybody for that matter) "You there, enlisted man!"

 

[Smirnoff123]

thanks guys.

 

[Trooper Hale]

p.s. Hales was kidding (I believe), but I would never have said to my gunner (or anybody for that matter) "You there, enlisted man!"

You've got to say it in your 1920's English accent, then its fine. "You there, enlisted man, Clean my socks and make sure these tan desert boots are shining! ... I say, careful there Captain, some of these men are working class! I think that one's a damned Bolshy"
Ah, i really think i missed my calling, i should have definately gone to Royal Military College Duntroon.

 

[Smirnoff123]

I know that this is probably a stupid question, but who in the tank actually fires the cannon? I've always assumed the driver did but I just heard something that says differently unless I misinterpreted it.

 

[aesop081]

It is the gun firing guy that shoots the gun

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

I know that this is probably a stupid question, but who in the tank actually fires the cannon? I've always assumed the driver did but I just heard something that says differently unless I misinterpreted it.

No such thing as a stupid question. Our tanks have a crew of four: driver, gunner, loader (some call him an operator) and a crew commander.

The driver is up front in the hull, and he is somewhat isolated from the rest of the crew. Bascially, he is responsible for the automotive aspects of the tank. He starts the engine, selects gears, turns off the engine, steers the tank etc etc. The crew commander gives him direction through the vehicle intercom system. He does not control any weapons, but of course he plays a big part in how the tank fights.

The gunner is in the turret, seated in front of and below the crew commander. He has controls that move the turret and fire the gun. He looks at the world through his sights. Most of the time the gunner is the one firing the gun.

The loader is on the left side of the turret and his primary duty is to load the gun. He also looks after radios. He has a hatch so he can sometimes crew command the tank if the crew commander is otherwise engaged or incapacitated.

The crew commander is on the right side of the turret and he has a hatch as well as sights (the type of sights will depend on the type and variant of tank). He is usually an NCO (MCpl/Sgt/WO) or an officer and he is in command of the tank. He can fire the gun, but he usually leaves this to the gunner. If a crew commander is shooting all the time he is probably neglecting some other thing that he should be doing (like looking for the next target or passing information to higher on the radio). The tank has a gunner for a reason. The crew commander navigates the tank in accordance with the mission and tactical situation, giving direction to the driver on where to go (but not usually the exact route) and giving arcs for the gunner to scan. The crew commander can acquire targets and designate them to the gunner with a fire order, or he can give the executive to fire to the gunner if the gunner has found a target on his own.

For a tank to function properly all four members of the crew must perform their duties as a team. Ideally the members of the crew are cross-trained to be able to perform each other's duties.

 

[Smirnoff123]

Thanks tango that answered my question but brought up another, it seems like all of the four crew are busy inside of the tank, who is out of the hatch firing the mounted machine gun?

Edit- Sorry I already asked this question, I forgot.

 

[mover1]

That would be Audie Murphy

http://www.tankdestroyersociety.com/audie_murphys_one.htm

 

[CEEBEE501]

kind of a weird question spawned by a conversation I just had with a friend about skydiving. Now if I understand the course system correctly, you can sign up for optional courses/qualifications (Personal escort, driver courses..etc) similar to electives in high school, correct?
Now if I also understand this correctly Canada still has a Airborne component even tho the Full Regiment was disbanded, and to be part of this one would have to do the Canadian equivalent of Jump school right? Now is this one of those "electives" and is it open to Armour?
A friend made the comment "well doesn't every one in the army get to parachute", to which I replied no, but kinda got me wondering who can qualify for any sort of, for lack of a better term, "jump school"? 

 

[geo]

Why doesn't everyone have the parachute qualification?... cause we do not have the capacity to do it AND once they are qualified, they need the time & resources to maintain same said qualifications.

Based on current CF needs & requirements, Areas, Formations & Units are assigned course positions.  They will either fill from their list of volunteers OR from their list of best candidate for the position & based on the people who are available at the time the course is being offered.

IT is not the Canadian equivalent of a jump school - it is a Jump school (presently located in Trenton ON).

While the Canadian Airborne Regiment, comprised of 3 Comandos (companies), filled from the three infantry regiments no longer exists, each regiment maintains a Jump coy.... something that they did not maintain when the CAR was around.  The CAR also had Artillery, Engineer & Recce capabilities... so yes, Troopers were (and are) offered para training.  CANSOF.COM is now comprised of JTF2, CSOR & 427 SOAS

The Canadian Forces is not a high school where you sign up for electives.  You sign up on enrollment.You undergo training in the trade/occupation you have selected/been selected for.  Once trained, additional courses are periodicaly offered to make you a better soldier.  It is not 1st come, 1st served - it is best man for the job... (so long as he is available at the time the course is offered).

 

[Quag]

CANSOF.COM is now comprised of JTF2, CSOR & 427 SOAS

Don't forget about CJIRU!

 

[geo]

Oh yah.... "them"   (more than a mouthful)

 

[Smirnoff123]

That would be Audie Murphy

http://www.tankdestroyersociety.com/audie_murphys_one.htm

Wow,was that ever a good story. I was thinking he'd better of gotten a medal of honour and had a movie made about this the whole time I was reading it, turned out he did.

 

[CEEBEE501]

Oh yah I knew it wasn't like electives, I was just trying to figure out how best to explain it in layman's terms, and yes I know why everyone doesn't have the parachute qualification.
Thanks for answering my question.
I was kinda wondering about that as well because the Russians have the BMD series which is airdropped with the crew inside(yes I know we don't have any thing like the BMD), I would assume that it works like our LAV-3 IFV's with crewing (some of my friends still don't grasp the fact it belongs to the infantry, I assume they think because its big and has a gun it automatically belongs to Armour)

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I am wondering why you are posting this stuff in the Armoured Soldier Questions thread...

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Oh yah I knew it wasn't like electives, I was just trying to figure out how best to explain it in layman's terms, and yes I know why everyone doesn't have the parachute qualification.
Thanks for answering my question.
I was kinda wondering about that as well because the Russians have the BMD series which is airdropped with the crew inside(yes I know we don't have any thing like the BMD), I would assume that it works like our LAV-3 IFV's with crewing (some of my friends still don't grasp the fact it belongs to the infantry, I assume they think because its big and has a gun it automatically belongs to Armour)

I am having a hard time figuring out what it is that you are trying to figure out...Are you asking about the LAV III?

To add to what Geo gave, we "train to need." While this principle gets violated from time to time, the basic premise is that the Army and Canadian Forces put soldiers on courses to give them the ability to perform tasks that the system thinks that the soldiers will need to perform. If the Canadian Forces decide that Armoured officers will need to be able to jump into enemy waters and dispatch their foe with a knife then you could expect to take the Airborne Underwater Knife Fighting Course. 

Until that happens, you can expect to take courses that will give you the ability to lead a troop of reconnaissance vehicles (or tanks) in battle. Expect to learn the basics of driving and maintenance, a good amount of gunnery and a large amount of tactics. I should add that officers (I note from your profile that you are interested in becoming an Armoured officer) will usually take a small number of generalist courses (Army Tactical Operations Course, Army Operations Course, etc) during their career as opposed to a bunch of specialist courses.

 

[rage]

My apologies if this has been asked numerous times before. Also, I am not sure if the QL3 is even used any more. The info I am looking for is what is the length of time for the QL3? It would be for PRES and in the LFWA. It may be known now as DP1? Any assistance to this matter would be appreciated.

 

[AgentSmith]

When I did my PRES DP1 this past summer it was 5 weeks long. 

 

[rage]

Was that in Wainwright? How much time was spent in a classroom? Was there a field ex? I am considering remustering but am 36 years old and don't want to make a mistake. The combat arms is a young mans game but this trade interests me and appears very rewarding.

 

[AgentSmith]

Nope it was in that little slice of heaven known as Meaford Almost the entire course was classroom work learning everything from radio operation to vehicle maintenance to AFV recognition. The last two weeks (give or take a day) was spent driving both cross country and on highways/cities (a lot of fun actually). There wasn't an FTX, we weren't even issued weapons.