Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)

[Brasidas]

Pretty sure there are some ACISS-Core who have already been promoted to MCpl since 1 Oct 2011 when the official trade change happened... If not yet, there will be come this APS! Core is still promoting an absolutely retarded number of people post-Afghanistan somehow. Good thing for them I suppose! Terrible for the trade as a whole.

Please explain your comment about how this is terrible for the trade.

 

[JBP]

Please explain your comment about how this is terrible for the trade.

Maybe terrible isn't the right word... But, unhealthy. How you ask? Simple... What happens when you have a Master Corporal actually in charge of troops that isn't even a half decent leader, never mind a natural leader. Or even worse, he's had his entire career screamed at him and he's been treated like a child for most of his career and then BAM! 5-6 years after going through basic, he's a MCpl now! BAD. BAD scoobies! He's setup to be a terrible leader, unless he's a super switched on, decent human being who realized the horrible examples of 'leadership' he's seen in his career are just that. Examples to steer clear of...

I've seen a ton of MCpl's in our trades that are absolute pieces of crap and really shouldn't be trusted to be let out the back of an LS with a Y shaped stick and told to find water never mind actually be in charge of people... That's what I mean.

Promoting 80-100 a year shows how many QUIT and how fast the turnover is. It's a meat grinder. Of course there is always good and bad examples of leadership but, as I just learned on PLQ, apparently the army and your chain is suppose to pick the few, awesome, truly amazing Cpl's to bring to the next level. Not... Everyone. Just because they lasted the longest in the waiting game.

Am I saying no one should be a 5 year Master Corporal? No. There absolutely should be some. You know, the ones who actually deserve and earned it. Ones who actually obtained a mastered, outstanding, immediate PER review for a couple years on actual merit and job knowledge & skill vice playing hockey really good and yelling at people.

With all that being said. What happens when you have a dipstick for a leader? Throw morale down the toilet instantly. Or, any faith in the chain of command and respect. It starts right at the MCpl level. If they don't respect that person... Well... Shit rolls downhill but faith shoots upwards it seems! And how can you respect your 'leader' if you know how to do everything trade related far better then them and all they ca do is fill out a leave pass for you and correct memos? What happens if that error code on the radio isn't being rectified the way you know how, what if you need him to be the SME and he just says, "Oh that's a senior Cpl's job now! FIGURE IT OUT!"... Having horrible leadership promotes an excellently TOXIC work environment. Promoting the wrong people propagates the chances of many crappy leaders. Promoting a ton of people all over the place just exacerbates the chances of said issues occuring. Yeah, I'm sure maybe it's 50/50 in the ACISS core that some guys are actually awesome Sig Ops and some others are good in other ways. But the other 50%?... One has to wonder.

TBH, so far in my career the best leadership I've seen has come from:

1.) Combat Arms trades (although they also have some SUPER bad examples too)
2.) LCIS - Far better old school leaders than 'Sig Op' old school leaders...
3.) Lineman - From everything I've seen, the junior leaders seem to have a much closer relationship with their boys due to the nature of the work than the other trades.
4.) IST - NEW, brand new, along with most of our junior leaders. Even still, I've seen some pretty awesome examples of dudes already.
5.) Sig Ops - Most brutal, horrible, terrible examples I've seen of poisonous, toxic leaders and chain gagging on ahhh... the Chain! Repeatedly. I think it's finally getting a little better because most of the old dinosaurs are retiring / broken / done and the junior leaders I've seen so far are mostly better. But there are still some that I wouldn't rely on to properly squat on a toilet.

Anyway, just my opinion, doesn't mean crap and that... Really... But promoting 38292843948234 people each year isn't healthy at the least. Ask the ACISS Core career manager what he thinks about it. The previous one for the Pte-Cpl ranks specifically mentioned he even thought the trade was 'sick' and promoting too fast, almost like bleeding out in a way. Survivors cling on and go up just because. And he's well known to not be the nicest guy but I think he was right about that...

 

[upandatom]

Maybe terrible isn't the right word... But, unhealthy. How you ask? Simple... What happens when you have a Master Corporal actually in charge of troops that isn't even a half decent leader, never mind a natural leader. Or even worse, he's had his entire career screamed at him and he's been treated like a child for most of his career and then BAM! 5-6 years after going through basic, he's a MCpl now! BAD. BAD scoobies! He's setup to be a terrible leader, unless he's a super switched on, decent human being who realized the horrible examples of 'leadership' he's seen in his career are just that. Examples to steer clear of...

I've seen a ton of MCpl's in our trades that are absolute pieces of crap and really shouldn't be trusted to be let out the back of an LS with a Y shaped stick and told to find water never mind actually be in charge of people... That's what I mean.

Promoting 80-100 a year shows how many QUIT and how fast the turnover is. It's a meat grinder. Of course there is always good and bad examples of leadership but, as I just learned on PLQ, apparently the army and your chain is suppose to pick the few, awesome, truly amazing Cpl's to bring to the next level. Not... Everyone. Just because they lasted the longest in the waiting game.

Am I saying no one should be a 5 year Master Corporal? No. There absolutely should be some. You know, the ones who actually deserve and earned it. Ones who actually obtained a mastered, outstanding, immediate PER review for a couple years on actual merit and job knowledge & skill vice playing hockey really good and yelling at people.

With all that being said. What happens when you have a dipstick for a leader? Throw morale down the toilet instantly. Or, any faith in the chain of command and respect. It starts right at the MCpl level. If they don't respect that person... Well... crap rolls downhill but faith shoots upwards it seems! And how can you respect your 'leader' if you know how to do everything trade related far better then them and all they ca do is fill out a leave pass for you and correct memos? What happens if that error code on the radio isn't being rectified the way you know how, what if you need him to be the SME and he just says, "Oh that's a senior Cpl's job now! FIGURE IT OUT!"... Having horrible leadership promotes an excellently TOXIC work environment. Promoting the wrong people propagates the chances of many crappy leaders. Promoting a ton of people all over the place just exacerbates the chances of said issues occuring. Yeah, I'm sure maybe it's 50/50 in the ACISS core that some guys are actually awesome Sig Ops and some others are good in other ways. But the other 50%?... One has to wonder.

TBH, so far in my career the best leadership I've seen has come from:

1.) Combat Arms trades (although they also have some SUPER bad examples too)
2.) LCIS - Far better old school leaders than 'Sig Op' old school leaders...
3.) Lineman - From everything I've seen, the junior leaders seem to have a much closer relationship with their boys due to the nature of the work than the other trades.
4.) IST - NEW, brand new, along with most of our junior leaders. Even still, I've seen some pretty awesome examples of dudes already.
5.) Sig Ops - Most brutal, horrible, terrible examples I've seen of poisonous, toxic leaders and chain gagging on ahhh... the Chain! Repeatedly. I think it's finally getting a little better because most of the old dinosaurs are retiring / broken / done and the junior leaders I've seen so far are mostly better. But there are still some that I wouldn't rely on to properly squat on a toilet.

Anyway, just my opinion, doesn't mean crap and that... Really... But promoting 38292843948234 people each year isn't healthy at the least. Ask the ACISS Core career manager what he thinks about it. The previous one for the Pte-Cpl ranks specifically mentioned he even thought the trade was 'sick' and promoting too fast, almost like bleeding out in a way. Survivors cling on and go up just because. And he's well known to not be the nicest guy but I think he was right about that...

I have to agree on I know of a few MCpls now, that shouldn't be, and i was more then shocked to read in on the FB feed that they had received their leaf. That is from the LCIS side, the sig op side scares me.
And yes, to have someone that is in 5 years and a leaf is alot to ask of them, but they do have to have that natural leadership ability. We start talking about natural leadership ability. I have seen some people with 10+ years in get their leaf and then crumble when a Cpl lets them know about an MIR appointment, or goes into super spin mode.

I do fully agree that Post Afghanistan they are promoting way too many people in the ACISS world. ID be interested to see the attrition rate, the real one, not the one they make pretty at the CM briefs. I think that with the mass promotions during Afghanistan, some were well deserved, and others were done because there was no one else left to promote. So why is it happening now? Look at what has happened-

1. Decade war, CAF swells up in numbers and budget,
2. ACISS comes along, huge waste of money, an "amputation for a papercut" solution
3. Afghanistan comes to an end, ACISS is standing there !@# in its hands when the wallets close.
4. ACISS hits panic mode, doesn't give people answers, those people wait for a year or two patiently for answers.
5. Those people leave, the ones from PRE ACISS era, the skills, the leadership and the experience ACISS needs to succeed because they don't provide the same skills in courses they did before.
6. You are left with nothing left to do but mass promotions to fill the void, lacking leadership.

The people that could fix it are either on their way out the door or just don't care.

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

You mean all of the signals world is saying this? What do you expect, I am not doubting what you say, even with a Cmdt and RSM saying we arent saying about it there are other channels that information gets passed down from. I have been at a brief where the Cmdt says one thing and then 20 minutes later other information is passed down. Putting a No comment out there, is not the same as there is no answer or information. They are probably just as sick as everyone else hearing and discussing this and just want effin answers.

If they would publish official updates from DSigs every month or so it would go a long, long way to quashing rumors that some people have been acting on. Explaining specifically the steps the process has to go through to get a decision and then saying every so often "Currently the pay review is at this step in the process". Even if there is no change, just providing frequent quick updates saying there is no change will fill the vacuum that seems to be packed with various rumors. I'm sure the branch or Corps or whatever they are calling themselves now understands that the lack of information is having a serious impact on morale.
The black box that is our leadership needs to start showing some transparency.

 

[kylepenn]

When I had my interview on February 5th they said they needed 35 weapon techs, 435 ACISS and 55 Weapon engineering techs for the new fiscal year.

 

[JBP]

When I had my interview on February 5th they said they needed 35 weapon techs, 435 ACISS and 55 Weapon engineering techs for the new fiscal year.

Oh, so welcome to the trade then kylepenn! Hahaha... J/K but if you'd like to earn specialist pay then go in as a weapons tech. I think they still get spec pay? If you do join as ACISS, you shouldn't be too bored for the first 5 years that's for sure!

 

[upandatom]

Oh, so welcome to the trade then kylepenn! Hahaha... J/K but if you'd like to earn specialist pay then go in as a weapons tech. I think they still get spec pay? If you do join as ACISS, you shouldn't be too bored for the first 5 years that's for sure!

Weapons Tech don't receive Spec Pay last I have heard. Only EME trade that did was EOTech, I know there was a push for Weapons to recieve it, due to being "Millwrights" to an extent,

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

Weapons Tech don't receive Spec Pay last I have heard. Only EME trade that did was EOTech, I know there was a push for Weapons to recieve it, due to being "Millwrights" to an extent,

If EOtechs are millwrights than I'm an Intel computer engineer.

My father is/was a millwright and literally works on everything from electrical to construction to pumps to aircraft engines.

 

[upandatom]

If EOtechs are millwrights than I'm an Intel computer engineer.

My father is/was a millwright and literally works on everything from electrical to construction to pumps to aircraft engines.

EO Techs and weapons techs are two different things.
EO Techs work on sighting/visual aid/targeting electronics.

"I  know there was a push for Weapons to receive it, due to being "Millwrights" to an extent"

The reference was towards weapons techs, not EO.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

EO Techs and weapons techs are two different things.
EO Techs work on sighting/visual aid/targeting electronics.

"I  know there was a push for Weapons to receive it, due to being "Millwrights" to an extent"

The reference was towards weapons techs, not EO.

Sorry for the confusion.

Doesn't change my point at all.

 

[winterstorm35]

So did anyone hear any more tidbits regarding tech pay? Or is it more like wishful thinking this year?

 

[PuckChaser]

So did anyone hear any more tidbits regarding tech pay? Or is it more like wishful thinking this year?

There's 50 pages of talk about it before this one, and every single page is filled with rumour. Rest assured D Sigs will push something out immediately if there's a decision made, everything else is rumint.

 

[REDinstaller]

Most of us go to the crapper to push something out, the MES implementation, development and execution directives seen to have come from it. Why did this not get though through!!!

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

There's 50 pages of talk about it before this one, and every single page is filled with rumour. Rest assured D Sigs will push something out immediately if there's a decision made, everything else is rumint.

I heard we're all getting spec 0 and Lamborghinis. ACISS Core gets Hurricans while CST/IST get Aventadors.

 

[PuckChaser]

I thought it was spec 2 with a $50,000 signing bonus for every CE.

 

[upandatom]

I thought it was spec 2 with a $50,000 signing bonus for every CE.

could just be waiting until the last legacy LCIS, SIG Op and Lineman retire or OT out of ACISS, then they will come out with a No for an answer and the justification
"you never had it so you don't know what its like"

 

[ixium]

5.) Sig Ops - Most brutal, horrible, terrible examples I've seen of poisonous, toxic leaders and chain gagging on ahhh... the Chain! Repeatedly. I think it's finally getting a little better because most of the old dinosaurs are retiring / broken / done and the junior leaders I've seen so far are mostly better. But there are still some that I wouldn't rely on to properly squat on a toilet.

I have LOTS to say about our command structure. The amount of times I've heard "it's done this way because I said so" is inexcusable. And until things change higher up in our command, those new MCpls are going to be shit. Leadership starts from the top, not the bottom. When I was at 1 Sigs MCpls actually got in trouble, and yelled at in front of the troops, for helping with setups/tear downs.

Until the dinos leave, the ones that are actually scared of technology and have no understanding of it, things in this trade are just going to get worse. Especially with no combat mission.

Anyone remember having to re-run fiber so that it was 2 feet away from power cables because it was a security breach that could be used to get into our systems? I know I do, because I've done it a few too many times.

How bluetooth headsets are bad, but keyfobs and other devices that put off radio frequencies are fine?

Throwing around no cell phone signs in places they aren't needed.

Reversing into parking because it is safer, like we are about be bombed by USSR(Not Russia, because we're talking about dinos)

I can only imagine what kind of retarded things will come over the next few years.

 

[PiperDown]

Until the dinos leave, the ones that are actually scared of technology and have no understanding of it, things in this trade are just going to get worse. Especially with no combat mission.

Anyone remember having to re-run fiber so that it was 2 feet away from power cables because it was a security breach that could be used to get into our systems? I know I do, because I've done it a few too many times.

How bluetooth headsets are bad, but keyfobs and other devices that put off radio frequencies are fine?

Throwing around no cell phone signs in places they aren't needed.

Reversing into parking because it is safer, like we are about be bombed by USSR(Not Russia, because we're talking about dinos)

I can only imagine what kind of retarded things will come over the next few years.

Based solely on your comments above, the Sigs world would be a better place if people with attitudes like you leave.  Your comments indicate a complete lack of knowledge.

 

[PuckChaser]

Anyone remember having to re-run fiber so that it was 2 feet away from power cables because it was a security breach that could be used to get into our systems? I know I do, because I've done it a few too many times.

How bluetooth headsets are bad, but keyfobs and other devices that put off radio frequencies are fine?

Throwing around no cell phone signs in places they aren't needed.

Reversing into parking because it is safer, like we are about be bombed by USSR(Not Russia, because we're talking about dinos)

I can only imagine what kind of retarded things will come over the next few years.

How you went from issues with TCI protocols and backing into parking spots boggles my mind. You lost all credibility by whining about having to back into parking spots, and that you can't have your iPhone wherever you want it.

Equating bluetooth devices to a garage door opener is also a massive stretch, maybe you could extrapolate that comment without being condescending?

 

[ixium]

@Tarlouth
That very well be true. How ever it isn't likely to happen, I'm too lazy to work in the civilian world.  Luckily for me there are lots of ACISS leaving and I'll get promoted.

@PuckChaser
Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but there are things done the old ways just because that is how they were always done, sometimes people don't even know why they are doing them, it is just the way it has always been done and it is in the SOPs that haven't been updated in a long while.

Anything that transmits is potential for a man in the middle kind of attack, keyfobs (and even smart cards) included.

And yes, I understand people not being on their phones is something that should happen(how'd you guess I had an iphone...spy!). But to try and give someone crap for an EMSEC violation just because there is a sticker up is just silly. Give them heck for being on their phone during work hours sure, but not made up rules/scare tactics.

EDIT: Just for the record, I doubt there is anyone I've worked for/with/above that would argue against me being lazy/relaxed, however none would ever say that I don't know my job extremely well and very capable in doing it.