Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)

[PuckChaser]

Anyway gents this will be my last post, come Jan it will all be academic anyway, ACISS will be here.  There is a lot of gloom out there but if you are already qualified in your trade I'll bet you won't even notice the change except your called something else.

Its probably a good thing, since you weren't here for a discussion anyways.

As for the SAM/SAS thing, my impression was that it was on it's way out, last time I used it in Canada was 07, and we really didn't use it overseas, and haven't since we returned.

I believe the move is to Battleview, but SAM/SAS did just get a facelift onto a Windows platform to make it easier to use for the operators. The stuff is out there, getting it is another story. Its almost getting fun to answer the Ops O's question of "Isn't there a way you guys can plot the vehicle's position on a map and put it on a projector?" with "You mean SAS? Yeah, that would be easier than the map bird table.".

 

[MikeL]

but SAM/SAS did just get a facelift onto a Windows platform to make it easier to use for the operators. The stuff is out there, getting it is another story.

Yea forgot about that, heard about it awhile ago, and I remember the SAM/SAS kit being taken out of all the vehicles, but that was all we were at, dunno if things have changed in the last while and the new kit is at the Battalion or not.

 

[NavyShooter]

The past couple of pages are sounding eerily familiar to me....we're doing the Weapons Engineering Technician rollover next year.....I'm seeing that there's a LOT of equipment/OJT training being pushed away from the school (current QL3 applications/equipment trg is 60-90 days, new is planned to be 42) with increased OJT requirements, while we're about to lose almost half our platforms for the CPF FELEX program. 

It sounds like there's interesting times ahead for you guys too.....I'm tagged into this one for interest's sake.

NS

 

[PuckChaser]

Yea forgot about that, heard about it awhile ago, and I remember the SAM/SAS kit being taken out of all the vehicles, but that was all we were at, dunno if things have changed in the last while and the new kit is at the Battalion or not.

That was the PDT-D and PDT Printer mounts I believe. I'd rather the desk space in my radvan anyways, only PDT I've ever seen was in the crypto vault and that's getting replaced with a CF30 shortly.

 

[dan7108]

dan7108

I doubt that, I've worked with some Reservists and they didnt know how to program a freq into a 522 since all their unit did was HF and not Tac Rad.


As for the SAM/SAS thing, my impression was that it was on it's way out, last time I used it in Canada was 07, and we really didn't use it overseas, and haven't since we returned.

You doubt what? The FACT that I just told you Reserve units have the capability? Or that most reservists don't know how to use the equipment because it hasn't been part of their trades courses (save for the last few years)? I don't know what you are getting at.

Your comment about some reservists not knowing TCCCS is just anecdotal and only reflects a couple of people who probably used the "My unit only does HF" as a poor excuse for their lack of trades skills. I hear the same thing every summer I teach in Kingston. Fact is, every Res unit has VHF TCCCS capabilities.

I used SAS overseas in 2008, and the Bn's are now using SAM5/Battleview. Either way, its just a change in the software. The hardware remains the same: CI, Radio, DAGR, Terminal and appropriate cabling. All of which reserve units have, and have had for a while.

My point is, we have kit at our units which our new soldiers will not be trained on. It seems like a waste to me.

 

[chrisf]

That was the PDT-D and PDT Printer mounts I believe. I'd rather the desk space in my radvan anyways, only PDT I've ever seen was in the crypto vault and that's getting replaced with a CF30 shortly.

We had 5 printers.... only 2 vehicles with mounts... never a PDT though....

On the subject of terminals for SAS, I can assure you, we don't have one, despite asking for one. (Now I have no idea who said "no", but I know the materials have been requested)

 

[Swingline1984]

Jesus and Mary in a bucket.  If you guys are going to be talking all bits and bytes in the combined DPs I've got my work cut out for me.  Especially considering I'm only concerned with my PER (have to work on my sarcasm, did everybody catch it this time  ).  Where are all the Linemen so I can have an incomprehensible argument about tension specs on the 89J or an online drinking contest?  ;D

 

[Jammer]

Its probably a good thing, since you weren't here for a discussion anyways.
You might want to watch who you are directing your smartass remarks to...I don't recall ever seeing you at any of the implementation meetings.


I believe the move is to Battleview, but SAM/SAS did just get a facelift onto a Windows platform to make it easier to use for the operators. The stuff is out there, getting it is another story. Its almost getting fun to answer the Ops O's question of "Isn't there a way you guys can plot the vehicle's position on a map and put it on a projector?" with "You mean SAS? Yeah, that would be easier than the map bird table.".

 

[chrisf]

or an online drinking contest?  ;D

Do you really think any of us would be opposed to that? Perhaps a discussion of the rules in the Radio Chatter forum is in order...

 

[PuckChaser]

Where are all the Linemen so I can have an incomprehensible argument about tension specs on the 89J or an online drinking contest?  ;D

I'm not a Lineman, but I will accept your drinking contest challenge.  ;D

 

[Swingline1984]

You might want to watch who you are directing your smart ass comments to...I don't recall ever seeing you at any of the implementation meetings.

I have to agree with PC...some nameless big head who deigns to grace us with his presence for a quick one way conversation does not win my respect either.  This is a forum and all topics are open for debate...just because we come here to vent (something we wouldn't have to do if the Branch opened up a proper dialogue) does not mean we go back to work and face the troops with anything other than solidarity and support for the CoC.  It would help if the answers weren't locked away in some sanctimonious guys head but were readily available on...oh...I don't know...a share point site.

 

[Swingline1984]

...and with that...TO THE BEER FRIDGE BATMAN !!

Only 1 rule:  last guy to fall down wins.  :blotto:

 

[George Wallace]

...and with that...TO THE BEER FRIDGE BATMAN !!

Only 1 rule:  last guy to fall down wins.  :blotto:

I thought (s)he bought the next round?

 

[chrisf]

That seems unreasonable, we can clearly continue to drink after falling down. Perhaps the last one to fall off the floor?

 

[C/S 0]

********I have to agree with PC...some nameless big head who deigns to grace us with his presence for a quick one way conversation does not win my respect either.  This is a forum and all topics are open for debate...just because we come here to vent (something we wouldn't have to do if the Branch opened up a proper dialogue) does not mean we go back to work and face the troops with anything other than solidarity and support for the CoC.  It would help if the answers weren't locked away in some sanctimonious guys head but were readily available on...oh...I don't know...a share point site.********

"some nameless.."
You guys are all nameless to me, isn't that why we have forum names?

"big head"
I do have a big head, sometimes I have to turn sideways to get into my office

"one way conversation"
I don't believe the conversation on this forum is one way, we just don't agree with each other

"vent'
go ahead and vent but remember there may be younger members reading this that may take away the wrong idea

"support the CoC"
glad to hear it

"the Branch opened up a proper dialogue"
That's something we do agree upon

"answers weren't locked away"
I don't have all the answers and my position is not important

"sanctimonious"
I must admit I had to look that one up, though anyone who knows me would tell you I am far from a saint.  Not bad for a linemen.

We all see ACISS in a different way, that's fine, no point in arguing.

Does it have to be beer why not Rye?

 

[Swingline1984]

C/S 0,

Glad to see you're back.  Please continue to enlighten us...who knows, you could be the one to swing the tide of opinion in your favour, and the masses of mushed together tradesmen (ACISS) will rise up and supplant the statue of Mercury at the Vimy gate with one of you.  ;D

You have some catching up to do, better make those rye doubles.

P.S.  I even read a book once...imagine that. 

 

[C/S 0]

Challenges

Sig Ops, LCIS Techs and Linemen all have their own identies and espirt de corps.  I think ACISS is a bigger deal to the LCIS and Linemen. 

For the Sig Op not that much of a change.  A chance for those that like the IS world to move into IST.  For me I am going to be ACISS Core.

For the LCIS Tech it is about the big question of spec pay.  If spec pay ends at the Sgt rank and you go back to the ACISS Core as a WO, there is no pay raise, unless you are one of the few that go CISTM.  So two career options - stay a tech for your career or move into the SNR leaderhip ranks if you want to be a SSM, RSM etc.

For the linemen I think it is about their identity.  Your an LST up to the rank of Sgt.  When you move to WO you could be in charge of a Radio Troop or a Base/Station TIS department.  We have WO', MWO's and CWO's that are linemen now but in the future when they are ACISS who will look after the traditions of the line trade?  It is the SNR NCO's job to ensure traditions don't die.

 

[chrisf]

Traditions are one thing, but there are a great many of us who see this as an attempt to kill both tech trades and line trades period, and a cheap and dirty trick by the army to make more sig ops... from a paper perspective, both techs and linemen can be replaced by contractors... which in turn of course leads to a serious loss of capability, but looks good on a budget line...

 

[NavyShooter]

Wellll......as of yesterday's meeting with the Career Mangler, I'm no longer an Acoustic/Sonar tech, I'm now a Radar tech.....I'm still thinking about that....18 years of being a Sonar guy, and now that's all gone....

 

[Occam]

Wellll......as of yesterday's meeting with the Career Mangler, I'm no longer an Acoustic/Sonar tech, I'm now a Radar tech.....I'm still thinking about that....18 years of being a Sonar guy, and now that's all gone....

Meh, it's all the same.  Ping, pong, divide by two.  ;D

Kidding aside, the navy went through this back in the early '80s with MORPS and the operator/tech trades...and it didn't work.  Took decades to sort it all out, and now they're screwing with something that works again by bringing in this Weapons Engineering Technician silliness.  The Sig Op, Linemen and LCIS Techs are doing the same thing now.

The appropriate phrase here is:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.