BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]
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Snaketnk said:
BulletMagnet said:And the sky is what colour in your world?;D
I go with BM on this. Every study, scientific or not, points directly at an overall decrease in work productivity when the social use of "gadgets" are introduced. It is very hard to argue that a standard was set many years ago when there only distractions at Basic were your Section mates, the occasional bible, and if your were lucky enough to get one, the effects of the Saturday night hangover, would not be adversely effected by the additions of items which cause distractions from the myriad of tasks you are required to complete to maintain the highest levels of that standard.
It is a sad day in my heart though when I hear a troop who is proud that they just met the standard. I guess we are accepting now of people who just want to be ordinary or average. Lets how our future enemies are not looking to set their standards too high.
But, the base issue of all of this is that we are a changing society, and with it the organization we are employed within must also change with that society.
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Cell phone jammer anyone? >
Rc'vd this email the other day and I thought it fits in well with a lot of the comments posted earlier.
An obituary printed in the London Times....Absolutely Brilliant!!!
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
-Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
-Why the early bird gets the worm;
-Life isn't always fair;
-and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies ( don't spend more than you earn) and reliable stratagies ( adults, not children, are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six year old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining unruly children.
It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself froma burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.
He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;
I Know My Rights
I Want It Now
Someone Else Is To Blame
I'm A Victim
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
An obituary printed in the London Times....Absolutely Brilliant!!!
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
-Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
-Why the early bird gets the worm;
-Life isn't always fair;
-and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies ( don't spend more than you earn) and reliable stratagies ( adults, not children, are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six year old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining unruly children.
It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself froma burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.
He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;
I Know My Rights
I Want It Now
Someone Else Is To Blame
I'm A Victim
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
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I am going to come at this from a different angle. I know the policy was thought up as a way to lower VR rates which is the wrong reason to implement the policy I agree. However, try and think of it in these terms: As several have stated there are banks of pay phones to use as they themselves at times used on course. So no one is saying that calling home every once in a while is a bad thing, but that all the additional parts of cell phones these days (games, social apps, etc.) will be an unnecessary distraction. Now most of the people talking about the pay phone banks admit that it was a time when most people did not have cell phones anyway. So my thought is, you didn't have cell phones back then so a pay phone and a phone card was your only option. These days new recruits/ candidates are already paying 50 to 100 a month for a cell phone, they have them there, letting them have access to a phone that they have already paid for keeps them from needing to spend more unnecessary money on pay phones and phone cards. As an ex candidate whose sole reason for being "Ex" is financial woes. I can appreciate that.
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There's no problem letting them have the phones in the shacks, but thats where they should stay. Locked up in your room for before and after training.
Its another topic, but I don't get why you'd quit a job that paid for your university and gave you a salary for financial woes.... :facepalm:
Its another topic, but I don't get why you'd quit a job that paid for your university and gave you a salary for financial woes.... :facepalm:
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You must have served eons ago. Even back in 88 when I went through, I made 262 every pay in basic. I wasn't an officer; that was 524 per month ... and my living quarters and rations were covered throughout. I called from pay phones --- we got one 5 minute phone call once per week. I lived.
After week 4, we had access to the vending machines (for the first time) and the pay phones more often. It was nice, but most often were utilized only on the weekends because during the week were were just to f'n bagged by the time the learning, weapons handling, weapons cleaning (a nightly ritual for us), kit & quarters, etc etc was done. But, perhaps we were tired because we walked/marched no where. We ran (in combat boots egads!!) every place, every time.
Basic is MEANT to place personnel under high stress levels in an uncomfortable enviornment with which they are not familiar. It is meant to instill in them the instinct to adapt to the high pace of "too much to get done, but not enough to do it" by them working together as a team to get the essentials down, get the "too much" done and to get it done properly and at a very high standard. React and work well under very stressful conditions --- that's what war is all about and, like it or not, that is what this particular outfit exists for. Foundation blocks.
What's up these days that recruits seem to have all this free-time on their hands?? That tells me that either the level of the standard they are "meeting" is down or the day now has greater than 24 hours in it. Who knew?
After week 4, we had access to the vending machines (for the first time) and the pay phones more often. It was nice, but most often were utilized only on the weekends because during the week were were just to f'n bagged by the time the learning, weapons handling, weapons cleaning (a nightly ritual for us), kit & quarters, etc etc was done. But, perhaps we were tired because we walked/marched no where. We ran (in combat boots egads!!) every place, every time.
Basic is MEANT to place personnel under high stress levels in an uncomfortable enviornment with which they are not familiar. It is meant to instill in them the instinct to adapt to the high pace of "too much to get done, but not enough to do it" by them working together as a team to get the essentials down, get the "too much" done and to get it done properly and at a very high standard. React and work well under very stressful conditions --- that's what war is all about and, like it or not, that is what this particular outfit exists for. Foundation blocks.
What's up these days that recruits seem to have all this free-time on their hands?? That tells me that either the level of the standard they are "meeting" is down or the day now has greater than 24 hours in it. Who knew?
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Vending machines??.....not in 1978. Everything else Vern said sounds about right.
OldSolduer
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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Vern is pretty much on the money.
In 1975 we had vending machines for pop in plastic cups. Pay phones as well.
And stone tablets, a hammer and chisel to write home with......
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DexOlesa said:
So, you were making 500 bucks a month spending money for attending University full time and your meals and quarters and education and books were already covered. Plus that time was going towards a pension.
Some average Canadian kids would kill for that particular deal. It certainly doesn't seem too shabby to me.
You were much better off than they were, what with them having to work a job at night/weekends, when they could have been studying, to pay their tuition, rent, food bills et al.
Perhaps, it's a generational thing, but I'm not feeling too sypathetic. It just seems to me that this generation can be spoon fed up the hilt, but still believe they are "owed" and "entitled" to more.
OldSolduer
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ArmyVern said:
Why do I allow myself to be drawn into these things? :facepalm:
LOL - we cleared 130 every 15 days, 260 per month.
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DexOlesa said:
Understood. Your original post makes it seems as if the CF and your schooling within was the cause of your financial woes; I see that's not the case.
I just deployed for 9.5 months ... and dropped my cell phone down to the basics while I was gone as I wouldn't be using it. It cost me 9 bucks a month to do so; surely to hell a recruit could even manage to get that little bit of fiscal management correct when in St. Jean for a mere 10 weeks?
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I'm just trying to play devils advocate on the cell phone thing. I personally don't see a problem with weekend cell phone use, and as long as the recruits are sticking to that then there is really little need to confiscate them in my opinion. Now if the recruits can't be trusted to abide by that and use some discretion and common sense then yes, confiscate away. Also, not a problem Vern. I went in knowing the pay was low, but what they fail to mention is that when they say "Everything is covered" they mean its covered by deducting it from your pay ($600 a month for food etc.)
OldSolduer
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Our issue CF wide is that we don't seem to want to hold an individual accountable. Example - last year at a dinner three troops went downtown in DEU and got reported by another military member as being rowdy and drunk and a disgrace to the CF.
The military member reported it directly to a person outside our troops chain of command (reported to a CWO.)
Now the rule is that you aren't allowed downtown after a function in DEUs. I disagreed and told them we should investigate incidents and hold those persons accountable.
It won't be that way in the future.
And it should be the same for recruits - punish the ones that don't perform.
The military member reported it directly to a person outside our troops chain of command (reported to a CWO.)
Now the rule is that you aren't allowed downtown after a function in DEUs. I disagreed and told them we should investigate incidents and hold those persons accountable.
It won't be that way in the future.
And it should be the same for recruits - punish the ones that don't perform.
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